AuthorTopic: Shading opinion?  (Read 1130 times)

Offline Xenon02

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 133
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Shading opinion?

on: April 04, 2020, 09:11:39 pm
Hi guys!

Finally (or maybe not) I have some free time to spend.

What do you guys think about this shading/adding shadows?



It's still WIP but I'm working on with shadows a bit.

Offline Chonky Pixel

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 202
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • tequila_ben
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/187855.htm
    • https://www.facebook.com/chonkypixel/?modal=admin_todo_tour
    • View Profile
    • Chonky Pixel

Re: Shading opinion?

Reply #1 on: April 05, 2020, 11:14:52 am
Where do you want the light to be coming from? A common light source location is lop-left. If you haven't already, choosing a definite light source location can help when deciding where to place shadows and shading.

It might help to think about the shape of the building as seen from above. What's the shape of the roof? Do any bits jut out? How about the large vertical element in the middle? Does it jut out or is it going in? Why is it casting a shadow? Are windows recessed or do they stick out too? Having this in mind can help make decisions about where to place your light and dark pixels, as you track your imaginary beams of light.

With the kind of perspective-free projection you have here, you might find you have to try harder to convey the idea of a 3D space, as you don't have the ability to push things in or out of the top or bottom edges to help sell the 3D effect. You might make life a bit easier on yourself if you imagine you're looking at the house from the front and a bit from above, as it seems you are for the sidewalk. Then you can make it very clear which edges are on the front and which are on the side of the building. It's a pretty radical style change though.

Offline Xenon02

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 133
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Shading opinion?

Reply #2 on: April 05, 2020, 01:35:20 pm
So I've change a bit colors, and indicated the source of light.
The problem is with the colors it self to make it suit the building (kind a though one)

How do you think about that. Oh and about the perspective (I've imagined it I have even a good sight from here to a large 10 flat buildings) So that's how I see them.

Offline Chonky Pixel

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 202
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • tequila_ben
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/187855.htm
    • https://www.facebook.com/chonkypixel/?modal=admin_todo_tour
    • View Profile
    • Chonky Pixel

Re: Shading opinion?

Reply #3 on: April 05, 2020, 02:53:53 pm
That feels like quite an improvement to me. I immediately had more of an impression of the shape of the buildings, so that's great.

Right now I'm not sure if there's a gap between the buildings that we can't see because of the projection, or if the one on the right is set a bit further back than the one on the left (but touching). I'm trying to think how you would make that distinction obvious. I suppose either add an actual gap, or make the plant at the top follow the inside corner around a bit onto the other building?

The doors on the right really help make things feel solid by jutting out a bit.

I actually quite like the palette you've chosen for the building. It's fresh, and gives the impression of the front face of the building being in the sun. There are a few edges and and lines that need tidying up though. Some of your thin horizontal lines are different distances apart, and some of the shaded horizontal lines in the middle need tidying up on the right to bring them in line with the vertical shaded block.

A few small observations:

The large plant on the roof is casting a shadow to the left, but the light is also coming from the left. You could remove some of that shadow on the left.

Now you've got a light source coming from above-left, you can make shadows appear to the right AND below objects, rather than just to the right. That might make things look a bit more 3D.

You've chosen different kinds of brown for the wood around the windows and the wood around the doors. I think it's quite likely that a building would use the same wood for both, so you could settle on one and make it more consistent.

Let me know if you'd like to see examples of anything.

Offline Xenon02

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 133
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Shading opinion?

Reply #4 on: April 05, 2020, 05:16:01 pm
It is supposed to look something like that (perspective from above)



Here is another edit



I addded some shadows to wirrings, air conditioner.
The entrace isn't made of wood.

I was thinking how to create a perspective like the 1st picture, I was also thinking about adding some shadows to the doors but I couldn't find the fitting colors for that

Offline Chonky Pixel

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 202
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • tequila_ben
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/187855.htm
    • https://www.facebook.com/chonkypixel/?modal=admin_todo_tour
    • View Profile
    • Chonky Pixel

Re: Shading opinion?

Reply #5 on: April 06, 2020, 05:05:14 pm
This is really taking shape. Despite the limitations of your projection I'm getting a real impression of the 3D shape of your building.

I assume the dangling vines on the right are a darker shade of green because they are a different species. I feel that if the rightmost one was darker still than the rest, it would add to the idea of the rightmost wall being in shade.

You could add shadows for your vines, too.

Offline Xenon02

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 133
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Shading opinion?

Reply #6 on: April 09, 2020, 09:15:39 am
I think that is a final version of this building.
So it's time to add more buildings that will suit this world I guess

Offline Chonky Pixel

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 202
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • tequila_ben
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/187855.htm
    • https://www.facebook.com/chonkypixel/?modal=admin_todo_tour
    • View Profile
    • Chonky Pixel

Re: Shading opinion?

Reply #7 on: April 10, 2020, 05:39:02 pm
Nice work, that's a big improvement from the original.

Offline Xenon02

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 133
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Shading opinion?

Reply #8 on: April 11, 2020, 10:58:40 am
By the way guys, do you have an idea how to add here roof ?
It's hard to keep this building have a foggy pallete ...
I was thinking a lot how to add colors to make it look more 3D



Small edit

« Last Edit: April 11, 2020, 01:02:29 pm by Xenon02 »

Offline eishiya

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1226
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/28889.htm
    • View Profile
    • Webcomic: Black Dram

Re: Shading opinion?

Reply #9 on: April 11, 2020, 01:16:54 pm
Roofs aren't usually paper-thin. The tiles (or sheets, boards, or whatever else you plan to draw) have thickness, as does the (wooden/metal/plastic) understructure that they sit on. Thinking about the major parts that make up this roof should help you see where the lights and shadows can go.

I highly recommend looking at some reference photos for this sort of thing. Roofs aren't something you can draw well without having a basic understanding of how they work IRL.


Unrelated nitpicks, if you're interested:
The upper right part of the wall looks like it's at an angle because of the darker colours, but everything else suggests it's part of the same surface as the upper left.
The vending machine (?) seems to be facing in a different direction (mostly down to its width/depth ratio and the far side's white bit being much thinner than the near side's), but its stadow suggests that it's flat against the wall. The shadow of its legs also suggests the back of it is narrower than the front.
The air conditioning unit seems to be sitting a distance away from the wall because of where on the overhang it is. If it's meant to be attached to the house, it should probably be flush against the wall. If it's meant to be separated, then it could use a cast shadow to disambiguate this.
Speaking of cast shadows, that aircon pipe(?) looks pretty thick and should probably cast a shadow on the wall.
For an extra touch of realism, consider setting the doors and windows a little into the house rather than flush with the exterior wall, and perhaps raising the bottoms of the doors by a couple of pixels to show the threshold.

Offline Xenon02

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 133
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Shading opinion?

Reply #10 on: April 11, 2020, 09:19:38 pm
Roofs aren't usually paper-thin. The tiles (or sheets, boards, or whatever else you plan to draw) have thickness, as does the (wooden/metal/plastic) understructure that they sit on. Thinking about the major parts that make up this roof should help you see where the lights and shadows can go.

I highly recommend looking at some reference photos for this sort of thing. Roofs aren't something you can draw well without having a basic understanding of how they work IRL.


Unrelated nitpicks, if you're interested:
The upper right part of the wall looks like it's at an angle because of the darker colours, but everything else suggests it's part of the same surface as the upper left.
The vending machine (?) seems to be facing in a different direction (mostly down to its width/depth ratio and the far side's white bit being much thinner than the near side's), but its stadow suggests that it's flat against the wall. The shadow of its legs also suggests the back of it is narrower than the front.
The air conditioning unit seems to be sitting a distance away from the wall because of where on the overhang it is. If it's meant to be attached to the house, it should probably be flush against the wall. If it's meant to be separated, then it could use a cast shadow to disambiguate this.
Speaking of cast shadows, that aircon pipe(?) looks pretty thick and should probably cast a shadow on the wall.
For an extra touch of realism, consider setting the doors and windows a little into the house rather than flush with the exterior wall, and perhaps raising the bottoms of the doors by a couple of pixels to show the threshold.

Well I guess this one should be a thing here.



So I was looking for some roof references (but most of them were to hard for me to draw it ...) so I've made a typical one with metal panel on the roof. I've also added gutter.

I've also changed the whole vending machine (with additional cat on the top). I changed a bit right upper wall to not make the situation where the site wall look the same like the front one. I added some shadows as well on the top, vending machine and pipes.

PS. There is still a bush WIP so don't mind him, I'm still thinking how to add details in this bush to make it look ok.

Oh and there is one thing I couldn't understand.

"For an extra touch of realism, consider setting the doors and windows a little into the house rather than flush with the exterior wall, and perhaps raising the bottoms of the doors by a couple of pixels to show the threshold."

What did you mean by that? Because I couldn't understand this line.
Thanks for the advice :)

Offline eishiya

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1226
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/28889.htm
    • View Profile
    • Webcomic: Black Dram

Re: Shading opinion?

Reply #11 on: April 11, 2020, 09:54:49 pm
The new roof looks nice, but I think it should be bigger. Your upper floor seems just barely big enough to stand up in (don't forget that the floor between the upper and lower floors has thickness too!), and in addition to that, there's usually some space above the ceiling for wiring, ducts, etc, and/or a crawlspace or even a whole attic. When looking at reference images, don't only pay attention to the details, pay attention to bigger features like sizing/proportions and positioning.


Quote
"For an extra touch of realism, consider setting the doors and windows a little into the house rather than flush with the exterior wall, and perhaps raising the bottoms of the doors by a couple of pixels to show the threshold."

What did you mean by that? Because I couldn't understand this line.

Check out this image: https://forum.vectorworks.net/uploads/monthly_2017_05/535d00481de2bf4068cb0b3dd36ba0e6.jpeg.bfff00c79778a2b2f0003d0cd4b791c1.jpeg
See how the window is not flush with the wall, but sits set into the wall, and the near side of the wall covers up some of the window frame from this angle? Because the window is much thinner than the wall, it can't be flush with the wall on all sides. Typically, the window will sit aligned to the middle of the wall, which will make it appear set into the wall. Sometimes it'll be aligned flush with the wall or even stick beyond the wall (both of these designs create a larger windowsill inside), so what you've drawn is certainly plausible, but IMHO it makes the design look flat and less interesting.

Offline Xenon02

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 133
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Shading opinion?

Reply #12 on: April 11, 2020, 11:58:56 pm
I think I know what do you mean by that, so I tried to recreate this effect.
Dunno if it looks like that.
Now I pretty like this roof, I wasn't confident before but now it looks great. I also wonder if the cat isn't to big comparing to this vending machine ...



PS.
Do you have a good reference how to implement words on a (that green object I forgot the name of it: D), I want to add some shadows to it as well, to create an imitation of the movement caused by the wind.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2020, 03:49:36 pm by Xenon02 »

Offline Mathias

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1794
  • Karma: +2/-0
  • im not real
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/9542.htm
    • View Profile

Re: Shading opinion?

Reply #13 on: April 15, 2020, 10:28:32 am
Green thingie is usually called an "awning" I believe.

Went for an edit. I think I was just trying to help details read better.
Simplified some things here and there. etc
Palette adjustments, and added a quick background so the building's lighting would have context.
Tried not to add colors but ended up adding a few I think.



(unfortunately while doing the edit, your cat jumped down and got hit by a car. dw, he felt no pain - it was an eighteen wheeler)

Offline Xenon02

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 133
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Shading opinion?

Reply #14 on: April 15, 2020, 08:30:15 pm
Damn I admit this one looks a lot better than mine :)

I was trying to keep more cold colors than make it more bright :)
Trying to help my friend make a game about life decisions. But this transfomations shows me how much I am afraid to add 1 more pixel or 1 more color to pallete but to be honest I still can't find my self to create a great color composition.

I also like the roof (I think I've added to much lines there)

A lot to learn is there for me :D
Thanks for the edit, I'll try to adjust some things by myself (don't want to copy). I'll send as fast as it's possible :D

Poor shop menagers cat  :'(
« Last Edit: April 15, 2020, 10:45:16 pm by Xenon02 »

Offline heyguy

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 236
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Shading opinion?

Reply #15 on: April 15, 2020, 09:27:14 pm
Really nice edit Mathias! The changes add a lot!

Xenon02, your cat looks weird the way it's shaded. I agree that the second floor looks a bit "short" possibly.



Try to give it shading more like the bunny on the right!

Offline Xenon02

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 133
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Shading opinion?

Reply #16 on: April 15, 2020, 11:35:32 pm
Hello !

I made so small changes (not big as I thought). Thanks again @Mathias for this transformation, it helped a lot.
So I made so small changes like : I've changed a bit colors from the original one, I left the door roof on the right side,
changed a bit the decoration behind the windows. I don't know how the cat looks like now (hard to add some other colors to not make it look to messy) I've also tried to get rid of the outlines but it looked pretty wierd for me. I've also changed the pattern on the bushes (the same way I did in my previous building).



I'm also experimenting with putting words on the awning.

I'll make it better soon :)



I'm also making a small map how it will look like (I mean that I'm checking how they look like next to each other)
Also thinking how to fulfill the background with small buildings and rice field. But I'll work on it later (FIRSTLY THE SHOP)



I'll try to send the version with a background :D

Thanks a lot everybody I really appreciate it @heyguy @Mathias @eishiya @Chonky Pixel
See ya !
« Last Edit: April 15, 2020, 11:46:36 pm by Xenon02 »

Offline Mathias

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1794
  • Karma: +2/-0
  • im not real
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/9542.htm
    • View Profile

Re: Shading opinion?

Reply #17 on: April 16, 2020, 05:17:37 am
Good work. The new building feels much more polished and I can understand what everything is now.

As for the cat beast, that's a tough one. It's definitely quite large. I don't think it really reads as a cat.
If you were to animate it and have its tail flip around or make it scratch itself or some cat-like movement that could tip off the view what it is.

Maybe the way Chrono Trigger (SNES) drew cats will give you an idea or two -


Notice the proportions and how the face is kept simple.

Offline Xenon02

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 133
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Shading opinion?

Reply #18 on: April 17, 2020, 10:21:56 am
Thanks :)

I've made 2 version of the cat



I think I've kept the proportions. Oh and I've changed a bit the vending machine.

Here is the actual change:


Offline Chonky Pixel

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 202
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • tequila_ben
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/187855.htm
    • https://www.facebook.com/chonkypixel/?modal=admin_todo_tour
    • View Profile
    • Chonky Pixel

Re: Shading opinion?

Reply #19 on: April 17, 2020, 01:17:56 pm
Cute cat! :)

Personally, I'd like to see bigger ears on it, just to hit home that it's a cat. You could probably sacrifice some head height. But it's a taste thing.

Offline Mathias

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1794
  • Karma: +2/-0
  • im not real
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/9542.htm
    • View Profile

Re: Shading opinion?

Reply #20 on: April 19, 2020, 10:58:10 am
yip yip looks good. SHIP IT.

Don't linger on this too long. Start something new. Keep improving.

Offline Xenon02

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 133
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Shading opinion?

Reply #21 on: April 21, 2020, 03:25:00 pm
yip yip looks good. SHIP IT.

Don't linger on this too long. Start something new. Keep improving.

Well here comes an update then :D

I'm working on with the background. At the beggining I thought "Maybe a park ? Some trees would be nice to see". When I was making it I realised how bad I'm with drawing trees :D So I've dumped this idea and went into more city setup for example electric poles



I was thinking how to make the background more reliable by adding 3/4 layers colors of the sky, but It didn't gave me a great result, so for now it looks like that.

I've also implemented the background to check if it would fit (also changed the electric box for the first building, because the last one looked more like a wardrobe than an actual electric box :D)



I was working of with some additional object like mailbox



And some chests as well




All of this for my characters





I think I have to much free time ...
What do you think about it ?
« Last Edit: April 22, 2020, 10:50:49 pm by Xenon02 »