Sidecrollin' excessively tiled fun fest 2007-2008 *Updated 3/11*

[Doppleganger]

So my monitor was apparently calibrated very poorly for quite a good while but I managed to alleviate the problem as soon as I found out. But not before I created countless pieces of yellow tinged art. 

Anyways, I've been doing far too much NPA lately so I decided to pick up a small gig making some backgrounds. Ten/Seven 800x600 backgrounds seemed like too much of a task for me to do in my free time so after some finagling and bartering I got them down to 150x600. I figured that it'd be a great opportunity to sharpen my tiling skills since my image would tile indefinitely and appear 5 times on the screen at any given moment in time. As a tribute to my unfortunate monitor situation I decided to sprite this piece with some yellow and orange overtones.



Any c&c is appreciated as usual. It's a bit early but it's coming along nicely. Eventually there will be another image in the background and there will be some more stuff placed between the foreground and the path. It'll be chock full of parallax scrolling although I haven't yet decided how I'm going to break up the pieces.

[Faceless]

Generally the idea when tiling is to not have parts that stand out too much from the rest.
The V shaped branches at the bottom of this image are an example of something that does.
Honestly, I'd make another tile with some minor alterations to break things up a bit, and randomly intersperce it amongst the scene.

[Rosse]

It's well pixeled, but it lacks in contrast imho. One other thing is I think it's too flat (not just because there isn't enough contrast). It's because the foreground and the background has the same saturation and level of detail. I think you could give it more depth if you put more contrast and saturation in the foreground and lower the level of detail in the background.

[TomF]

Wow this is beautiful. Just add some variation, because at the moment they really stand out as tiles, which is the exact opposite of what you want. When done really well, it should be almost difficult to point the tiles out.

[Jad]

0: The thing with tiled stuff is that you usually don't want to make it look tiled if you can avoid it, right?

Well, right now there is only one tree with a trunk pointing straight up per tile, and it acts as a divider between each tile, thus making it seem very tiled.

I think more trees are needed, or you need to get rid of the vertical dividing lines.

[rezz]

This is beautiful, and very well done. However, I much prefer the 150x600 tile to the 800x600 tiled image.

Basically what you want to do is create at least one new 150x600 tile that, while varied, still allows the image as a whole to flow.

[piotrek255]

yeah, it needs more variety, add 1 or 2 trees, modify the current one if you dont have time, and tile them with the current one.
It should come up great. you have some awesome pixelling skills

[Faktablad]

In general, I think the branches are too large, there aren't enough of them, and there aren't enough leaves.  You have these huge trunk-like branches that stick out at random angles and have tiny tufts of leaves at the end.  Look at some real trees, and you'll see that there are leaves pretty much evenly spread out around the tree, and many branches.

[Doppleganger]

The biggest concern people seemed to have was with the rather unnatural and obviously tiling trees. I somehow missed that but it certainly stuck out once I read it. I remade the tree section completely and it seems that it's doing better now.

If I have the time I'll definitely take into account the idea of duplicating the tile and modifying it a bit. I have plans to alleviate the 'V's in the foreground but I'm not sure what they are yet. :

[Dusty]

The problem is, you're picking unique things that are obviously going to stand out when tiled. Because the way the tree bends in one direction stands out a lot because it's unique, rather than a tree that stands straight up. Same with the tree behind it that splits, it's just too unique and you can tell it's being tiled. The best way to fix the tiling issue is to draw each tree without any unique characteristics. But the newest update looks really nice.

[Doppleganger]

Ze update.

Do you think that the trees in the background need to contrast more from the trees in the foreground? I did the best my abilities allowed without adding more colors. Of course I could be better than that but at the current moment in time I can't really tell. heh. Man it's late...

[LoTekK]

Personally I think the "background" trees definitely need more separation from the foreground ones. A simple way to do this without adding colors is to just lose the highlight color from them.

I did a quick edit where I took out the highlight color on the background trees, and instead used the midground as the "highlight".



One other thing is that the V branch at the bottom sticks out like a sore thumb when tiled, since it's so noticeable.

[Ryumaru]

thats making the trees tile much much better than before imo. i believe you should just eliminate the v branch at the bottom in that tile or replace it with something less unique, then use the tile with it for variety in the foreground.

[tocky]

Top half is tiling pretty well, but there's a obvious sort of sine wave pattern going at ground level.

Quick and dirty, but you get the idea.

[Doppleganger]

Update- I tried to address the wave issue, I also detailed the background and fixed the tree contrast issue.

I plan on getting to the foreground objects eventuall, f'real I do.

[Dusty]

This is tiling, much, much better. I think you're just about done with the backgound in terms of tiling(except there are some errors with the leaves tiling, but I'm sure you noticed that). I think now it's the foreground that needs work. Again, though pretty, stuff like that branch and all is way too unique to tile without showing.

[Ragnarok]

Maybe make the extreme background a better colour than yellow, as, last time I checked, the sky wasn't yellow  . But it's all up to you... I really like this.

[Doppleganger]

Hey guys, thanks for the comments!

Dusty:
I still have to 'detail' all of the leaves actually. What we have at the moment is just the blocking of color to get the lighting correct. I'm looking forward to being able to move onto the foreground though. XD

Ragnarok:
There's going to be another layer where the yellow "sky" is. So fear not, there won't be a bright yellow sky.

[Dusty]

Well I meant you had accomplished getting it to tile nice, and could move on

[Doppleganger]

Time to move on! Thank god.

[Dusty]

Absolutely beautiful. Though right now it looks washed out, there's not a lot of contrast, and not enough saturation so it's hard to ignore that.

[Faceless]

This is really phenomenal. The progress you've made from the first version is astounding.
This thread should definitely be feaured.

[Doppleganger]

Finished for now! Eventually I'll be revisiting it but I have to keep the flow so I can finish the other 6 backgrounds or so. Coming up next- a bamboo forest.

[chigsam]

WOW i love it! its beautiful

[Zero]

Damn, this piece has come a long way. Looks amazing. 
I think this should be featured too.

[Helm]

I really didn't expect this to tile well and not annoy with its repetition. I guess the various normalizations of larger vertical detail pulled it together. Good work. There's stuff to learn in the process we've seen in this thread.

[Opacus]

Gogo feature get, mine's been there long enough
Excellent job Dopple. Love your stuff.

[EyeCraft]

Holy crap! Thats astounding progress. I can't believe the tiling came out so effective, excellent work.

[Conzeit]

yes, yes feature much. not enough tiling centred topics out there =)

I guess forests with many trunks are kind of ideal for tiling this way tho. I wonder if you can pull it off in other landscapes =O

[Doppleganger]

We'll find out. I've got some much tougher ones up ahead. Some temple outskirts for instance.

[Dusty]

This would look absolutely beautiful with some parallax scrolling...

[saimo]

Wow, this is just superb!
Pixelling-wise, the technique is ace; tile-wise, I guess not much more can be accomplished with a single tile
The only thing that does not convince me is the top of the trees: the leaves themselves are beautiful, but the way they fade to dark rather gives an impression of flatness and over-stretching... edit: another factor that contributes to this impression is that leaves perspective changes too little.
Dunno, maybe it's just me being unable to read it Can't explain it any better, sorry

saimo

[progFX]

Awsome, my jaw dropped when I saw the finished product 

Its probably just me, but the bottom is really annoying me, it blends in tooo easily, that its not easily read. 

Heres is a really really poor edit, to show you what I am noticing.
 

[Ryumaru]

i agree that the lack of perspective and the fade into the shadows makes it look flat but it makes the eye go up and down rather than side to side which makes it even harder to notice the tiling.

[Doppleganger]

Oi!

Dusty:
I have to break up the background into several layers (which will take a while), but then I will make an animated parallax scrolling demo.

Saimo + Ryumaru:
Together you have both questioned and answered the upper leaves situation. They are indeed a bit dodgy but Ryumaru puts it nicely.

ProgFX:
When parallax scrolling is introduced it will address the issue that you have. I personally tested it to ensure that the issue you're seeing isn't actually an issue.



Here's the latest background in the works. It's not turning out quite how I wanted it to but there's only so much you can do with no time and a crapload of bamboo. Naturally, there will be several layers of bamboo introduced beyond this first one. So worry not about that.

[Turbo]

I think it tiles well, and is looking nice. You could push for more contrast, considering that it's a background, and not supposed to jump up, still i think it's a bit washed out. Looking at some sprite mockups on top would probably help here.

There's something about the perspective that doesn't feel quite right... i think it's that the top branches apparently aren't following the perspective of the ground. Maybe you intend to fix this with the background layers, but the top one could use this too.

Challenge Suggestion: non-vertical bamboo (as in bending to a side under it's own weight) for maximum effect

[robotriot]

Pretty awesome work here, especially the leaves! I noticed that the left and right border of the tile don't quite match up if you looked closely, I tried to address that in a small edit here:

[Doppleganger]

Latest rendition of the bamboo forest.

Turbo:
I upped the contrast a bit. You're right about the leaves on top. I'm not sure what to do with that situation quite yet. I suppose the easiest route is to follow suit of the forest backgrounds canopy. As for the bending bamboo, I won't be doing it in the main layer. Given the obvious tiling effects of bamboo, a curved one would call it out oh so much more. That's not to say I won't do some curved ones further back.

RobotRiot:
I'm not sure what you did to it. Not saying your crit isn't valid, just saying I have no clue what you did. XD

[Shadoron]

The bamboo looks awesome so far! a few suggestions though: the middle of the bamboo looks a little bland. if you add about 6-8 thin branches ( about 2 inches thick where it meets the bamboo.) would make it so it's not too sparce to reveal the tiling. also, I was thinking the area below the road  could use some banboo too, to add that 3-d effect. 
I'm still a pixeling NOOOOOB so you dont have to listen to me at all. ...

[Zolthorg]

here's yours and robotriot's tiled together

i'm not seeing it either unfortunately,
perhaps he uploaded the wrong image?

[ndchristie]

he adjusted slightly the edge halfway up....

[Doppleganger]

Here's the latest rendition. It's no longer a wip so any pressing matters should be addressed, if you see 'em.
The sparseness will be taken care of with the three other layers. The funky perspective on the canopy will hopefully address itself upon completion.

[vellan]

it is just dying for some contrast. looks like i am seeing it through a thick smog.

the actual tiling seems great, but it is extremely hard to tell at the present contrast (or lack thereof)

[Doppleganger]

Really? There's no contrast? That's a conundrum if I've ever seen one...

I really gotta get a spectrometer or CRT monitor or something because, this stock Dell is obviously not cutting it.

If sombebody would be so kind to edit this piece with a little more contrast, it'd be greatly appreciated. Somebody who happens to know their monitor is calibrated correctly.

[Helm]

edit: heh, overdone. Depends on what time of day it is and how overcast is the sky. Lots of videogames go for high-contrast generally, depends what you want. The original is pleasantly foggy for me, but if you didn't do it on purpose, then shit, yes, calibrate.

[Doppleganger]

That is some wicked contrast! Thanks Helm.

I recently (when this project started) calibrated my monitor with a program that allowed me to adjust the colors further than my monitor allowed so I found it a bit odd that it was still calibrated poorly. I read the topic on my gf's account on this computer which isn't affected by the program's calibration, so my image appeared extremely foggy and I wondered if her account was the one that was actually closest to decent calibration. Anyways, I don't think that my monitor is as far off as I once thought.

Here's a version with what I think is an acceptable level of contrast. If this appeases the people seeking more contrast then the original is most definitely intentional.

[Helm]

A bit more dark end, and I'm fine with it.

[Doppleganger]

That's a relief.

I should probably invest in a spectrometer anyways. Seeing as having properly set colors is a rather important aspect of my job.

[vellan]

new version looks much better

[Doppleganger]

I'm sticking with the old one though. XD

I was just messing around to see if my monitor was off or not. I spose it's kind of an offleading post for a topic though. I'm going for a more subtle look to keep the background from fighting with the characters for attention. This one especially because there will be foreground bamboo gettting in the way of the characters often enough.

[Helm]

When you have characters, post a mockup so we can see what clashes with what, given good contrast.

[miascugh]

Indeed. With too little contrast the background may become completely detached from the sprites, preventing it from merging into a believable scenery.

[Doppleganger]

I keep forgetting to get some character sprites from my employer (I accidentally deleted the email he sent me with them) but here's the bamboo with the foreground layer as well for now.

[Helm]

I'd say drastically cut down on the number of bamboos in the foreground, and space them out. It will create gameplay/readability confusion.

[Doppleganger]

Good call on the foreground. Whoops! I didn't think about that. Well, I did but I thought about it in the sense that I'm going to be making variable tiles for all of these backgrounds later. I suppose it'd be best that the main tile was sparser than the tile variances.

[bengo]

Okay seriously dude, add some contrast, you were told like over 9000 times on your last piece but you didn't, also, still too many in the foreground, maybe make them cut down/smaller?

[Doppleganger]

I added a bit more contrast. Whether or not it's enough, I don't know.
Also included the remaining background layers.
Where does it stand? I don't know that either.
I like it alright but I've done much better work. I guess that's my stance on it.

[Xion]

why are the two repeating foreground bamboo practically the same?

[Dusty]

I'd say cut out any bamboo in the foreground all together, personally. They're way too distracting, and only get in the way. Maybe find something else to put in the foreground, perhaps baby bamboo. We didn't see any tree's in the foreground in the last piece, I don't really see why we'd see the bamboo trees in the foreground on this one.

[Doppleganger]

I have no clue why I left them the same. Apparently this bamboo forest is getting the best of me. XD

Dusty, you're probably right about that, the client happens to want foreground bamboo so there's not much I can do about it. Perhaps I'll push for one of the alternatives you've suggested. For now though, here's some not so repetitive, repetitive foreground bamboo...

[Ryumaru]

maybe only have 3 bamboo trees or whatever? i think that would give enough space and not detract too too bad from the visible area.

[Helm]

basically now the problem is that due to low saturation the foreground bamboo merge with the background, there's no priority. Sticking sprites in the middle of all this will be hilariously confusing (and not good for your job). I suggest upping the saturation on the foreground bamboos, and perhaps breaking one or two of them per-screen so the player can see through more, though this I'd have to see done before I can say 'yes, it was a good idea'.

I'll edit if you want.

[Hatch]

I don't know what you pixel with, Doppleganger, but when I first pulled your tiles into Photoshop to play around with the contrast for my own edification, I noticed that they looked a lot better, contrast-wise, in Photoshop's CMYK proof setup, which is the default. Switching to to Monitor RGB allowed me to see what it will look like when it's saved and viewed outside of PS, and revealed the low contrast.

I don't know if this has any bearing at all, I just thought I'd mention it.

[Helm]

 I feel this shows what I mean about priority.

[Ryan Cordel]

Not sure, now both backgrounds seem to want eye-attention.

[Doppleganger]

Thanks Helm!

That's really nice. Apparently contrast is the next issue I need to address with myself. Else, I'll get awful tired of hearing "needs more contrast!". Haha.

We've decided that the best route for the foreground bamboo is to seperate it from the foreground bushes and let the engine place them when it's necessary. That should make it easy to alter their placement for playability. I'll be messing with the contrast and colors a little bit more later today and then I'm going to call it good.

In the meantime, what would you guys like to see next.

Bath house, Cave, Palace exterior, or palace interior?

[Faceless]

Cave

[Feron]

palace exterior

[9_6]

Bath house

[bengo]

Palace interior.

[fil_razorback]

Palace exterior, I'm dying to see its architectural tilable design.

[Xion]

cave

[rezz]

Cave.

[Larwick]

Palace exterior, I'm dying to see its architectural tilable design.

Btw awesome work so far dopple, really great. 

[Doppleganger]

That's it for that...There is no longer a canopy in the foreground tiles and the bamboo will be placed singularly via the engine but that's all you're missing out on. I'm tired of uploading bamboo pictures. (I lied, I decided to upload the final version anyways, go figure)

It looks like I'll be doing the palace next then. But in case you didn't know, the cave is an ice cave. I also have a few more backgrounds I didn't mention that'll be offered to be next after the palace/cave is done. None of the mentioned backgrounds will be mentioned again until after the next choice of the series of choices is finished. Not that picking out what I do is that important or fun but, it keeps things interesting for us all.

Edit:
Thanks Larwick. I really dig your current avatar btw. I'm not sure if I mentioned that when you posted it on PJ.

[Brian]

you are a phenomenal pixel artist! I wish you'd do some tutorials on a lot of different things! Seriously, please do!
I noticed that your trees are a repetitive bunch of the same graphics (your leaves), yet they are not obviously so. I'd like to learn about how you broke up the monotony so well and did the shading with the leave so well too.

Your dirt ground is great! I really love your plants, rocks, logs.

[Doppleganger]

Thanks Brian, I'm glad you appreciate my work.

I don't really have the time to write tutorials unfortunately. Whenever I critique something and include an edit I usually give some sort of explanation to go along with it. That can kind of be considered a tutorial I guess. Nonetheless, there are a ton of tutorials out there that are really good. There really isn't anything I could teach that hasn't been covered already. As most people say, pixel art is all about experience. Having a good conventional art background also helps.

As for how I broke up the monotony; a lot of it has to do with the fact that the leaves are copy/pasted. I made a few different variations of the leaves and then pasted them as I saw fit. Since they're all generally the same and randomly placed, it's hard to tell where one begins and the other ends. After I got them all in place I further broke up the grid by changing the color around on some of the leaves to show depth. Where exactly one should do this is up to the artist. I had a big tiled image of the image up while I edited it, and I fiddled around with the placements until I felt like I broke up the grid well enough.


Well, it's been quite a while but here's the start of the palace. Extremely WIPish obviously.
Something about the perspective seems off on this piece. I think it might be the top of the palace wall. It looks like we should be able to see some of the top of it perhaps.



Feel free to tear it apart while it's still a baby. 

[Ryan Cordel]

I think, just my general opinion, is that it starts as normal, 3d road, than a depth-less 2d section, and an equally depth-lessbackground.

[saimo]

Something about the perspective seems off on this piece. I think it might be the top of the palace wall. It looks like we should be able to see some of the top of it perhaps

Maybe moving the part above the bottom row of roofing tiles further back will give it more depth.
As for the rest, gotta love the dragon (the green one on the wall, that is): the eyes give a Rumiko Takahashi feel to it
I just wonder whether it is too peculiar for tiling?

saimo

[Dusty]

Just like every one of your other pieces, it lacks a lot of contrast, and just looks washed out.

[Brian]

Thanks for the explan!

But, yes, again, the background looks a bit washed out. I understand it's good for backgrounds to look washed--Sword of Mana, a god, is very similar. The backgrounds are all bright and light. It helps the character to stand out

However, still, for critiquing purposes, it hurts the eyes. It literally looks like you just dragged the contrast bar down so that people have to look for waldo.

[Doppleganger]

I got a new monitor now. I now see what everybody was talking about. That's so depressing.

Thanks for putting up with the lack of contrast XD

Amazingly enough, Helm's edit looks exactly how my washed out image looked on my old monitor.




Here's the new version with some perspective fixes and contrast. I'll be shading the actual palace to look more 3D when the time comes. The bottom and top parts will most likely appear to be further back than the middle area.

[Doppleganger]

This is gone through a few updates and is nearly on page two so I'm going to go ahead and bump this topic.



Here's the latest image with some work done on the wall. It's meant to look remotely like jade although I haven't really referenced any images of jade. And by haven't really, I mean I haven't. Heh.

[Ryan Cordel]

There's something odd about the tiles that are closer to us. Maybe you ought to try making the tiles seem smaller at a distance while keeping it the same while it's closer. Also, the water is actually rather nice, but you ought to do something so it doesn't seem so attention grabbing. Those little lines (Which help give water it's shape though) are somewhat distracting.

[Doppleganger]

The water isn't done, but you may or may not have a point about those tiles. It makes things seem a bit slanty huh?

[Larwick]

I suggest you make the water less blue, more transparent, and more the colour of the stones etc it's running through. The style, to me, doesn't seem to fit the bright blue water, especially in a small, clean (i imagine) channel such as his. Then it also shouldn't be so distracting.

The design here is lovely. I'm finding what you're doing really quite amazing.

Btw, is the demon man engraving meant to look so comical? Cus his eyes... lol.  I imagine they are depicted sort of like that though. Anyway, carry on!

[Doppleganger]

Now...the water is "done". The blue was just a pretty placeholder really.

The wall is nearly done too. Thanks for pointing out those eyes.  was the perfect emote for them. XD

[Dusty]

Hmm, I think the dragon guy is way too unique to be used in something that needs to be tiled. Seeing the same dragon over and over just screams repetition. Perhaps if you really want to include that dragon, make that whole area there clumps of dragons intertwined or something of the sort. Also, the water color choice is way too close, in my opinion, to the area above it. It's kind of hard to tell it's water. Maybe give it some blueish tint or something like that.

[Crow]

I have to totally agree with Dusty here. Well, not totally. I would try to lower the saturation of the water. Thats just a thought though, it might look pretty...bad.

[sharprm]

You need a reflection of the brown part in the water thats closest to the water.

It looks very nice so far. Considering your wall is made of Jade, you should make the rail on top of it equally expensive/elegant.

The perspective worries me - i hope you have figured it out. You might have to remove the checkerboard pattern.

[Doppleganger]

Waaaaaay too much goin' on with me...had to put this aside for a while. Hopefully I'm back at it at full force now.

I messed with the colors of the water, started on the actual palace. I'm working my way up, so it gets dodgier and dodgier as you look up.

[fawel]

I'd say nix on the ripples on the water, if you kept them I'd expect them to be animated.  A stretched/lightened reflection would work well, though.

[Doppleganger]

I think you might be right. I haven't gotten to the water again yet but, I plan to. Something seems off about it to me.

Major update this time. The red palace was just not cutting it for me. Still a ways to go but, I'm finally getting somewhere.



I think that the pieces, which will hold the railing, are screwing up the perspective. Thoughts?

[gliding]

This might give you the same problem you had with the trees earlier. The way the roofs are shaped will point out the tiling a bit much. (even moreso with the mountains added in. As individuals tiles- looks great, but as a group they'll need work.

[Doppleganger]

Many moons later...
I finish.

It's crunch time on these tiles so I won't be able to take c&c into consideration as much as I pump out these backgrounds but, I'll make sure to keep you all posted as I progress.

[Doppleganger]

The cave background.

Note that the background is pieced together from a bunch of variations of what you see and should hopefully never look like it does here. I'm actually not happy with the background but, I'm quite pleased with the foreground aspects of this background.

[AlienQuark]

What are you making these for? They're so awesome, but what are they for? If the answer is on an earlier page then sorry. And I agree, the background is a little hurting on the eye, lacks variation too.

[Doppleganger]

I'm making these for some samurai game- for which I don't know the title of unfortunately.

The background is getting a set of platforms (ledges) so it shouldn't look as bad when they're added. There're some variations of the bg tile already too but, I want to work them up a bit more before I post them.

[Helm]

[Doppleganger]

Whooooooops! Talk about carelesssness. That's my fault for lining up the tiles incorrectly. I'll be posting a more complete version of this early next week with that seam addressed.

[Kfuchoin]

Hello Dopple,
Great Job so far.
I'm late but i have to say that the perspective of the palace exterior worries me :/ you made the part next to the water, the one with the dragon look lke the floor of the palace. (in my opinion)

Right now on this cave for adding more variety whyn ot adding pieces of diferent crystals to the wall? (rubies, diamonds,etc) so you can keep the same repited tile of the stones but you can distract the person opinion of "copy paste" but adding the diamonds
Great job again.

[Greenwing]

The cave scene reminded me of shinobi for gamegear enough to get some screenshots




not that cave scenes like this are rare in ninja games.
put some logs in the water!

good job.

[Doppleganger]

Topic's not dead yet!

This is the latest mock for the volcano stage. While the foreground is going to tile indefinitely the background area is going to be expanded into a 900x600 area that tiles vertically and horizontally. The previously posted cave bg, I believe, will be getting a makeover some odd time down the line. I'm doing the volcano bg in a less tiley way because the vertical and horizontal scrolling really kills my options for the bgs. As you can see I borrowed the old cave foreground and modified it to save time. It's not the most awesome practice but I think that it worked out really well in this scenario.

[sharprm]

Quick pallete edit. While I know your previous pieces have softer colors and you should try to match that, it currently doesn't read as being hot to me.

[Doppleganger]

Thanks for that edit sharpm. I like how the ground has taken on a scorched look with it. Some of the background looks colorized with a cga palette, which doesn't work for me, but there's a lot I can take from it. I agree that my version looks a little too cool for the interior of a volcano and so, I'll be addressing that.

I probably won't be getting to that point until I finish up the background of the background though. It's pretty massive and I'd like to layout all the colors for that before I go fine tuning everything.



And the lesson for the day, don't shape rocks by lava- shape lava with the rocks. The result is a far more natural look.

[brianskywalker]

This new version looks rather non-pixelled in the BG. Though probably you'll fix that anyways. Awesome stuff.

[Terley]

The whole image looks jpegified, but looking wonderful Doppleganger nothing to say.

[TrevoriuS]

Is it true that this latest tile is a CG drawing and not pixeled?

[Conzeit]

wow....that is just beautiful beautiful stuff. too bad I didnt get in early enough to critique on the mansion tiles, I really think the watery part could be improved in there which is a shame since everything else looks so absolutely fantastic

That cave is gonna stick like a big sore thumg tho, specially since the volcano stage has it's foreground, it's gonna look like the uglier shabbier little brother. You should've done a big vacum background, I would go as far as leaving half of the background just pitch black, and then have some stalactites fade in at the top....and botton, but making sure to keep a big pitch black hole in the middle that tells you anything could come out of nowhere and gnaw at your head.

I dont know wether it's that your stuff looks so good one doesnt CARE that it's tiled, or that it really does hide tiling. I think it's admirable how many textures and diferent types of palletes you pull of, this topic is all the more awesome because of the sparse tiled content we get around here...

[Doppleganger]

Thanks Conceit! There is a slight possibility that I'll be coming back to the palace exterior tiles. Once I finish the backgrounds I plan on spending whatever time I have left towards cleaning up some of the older backgrounds. Much has changed since I've started this project and I can find room to improve on every background. The cave, for sure, will be getting a facelift. It already doesn't look it does in this topic, but it's still a ways away and not worth critiquing at this point.

I zoomed in on the volcano bg and noticed that there seems to be a situation with the pixels. The unfinished bg area is actually only 4 colors and so I'm left wondering why a png has corrupted my image. I'll make sure that my next update is not funked up in any way.

[Crow]

Thanks Conceit! There is a slight possibility that I'll be coming back to the palace exterior tiles. Once I finish the backgrounds I plan on spending whatever time I have left towards cleaning up some of the older backgrounds. Much has changed since I've started this project and I can find room to improve on every background. The cave, for sure, will be getting a facelift. It already doesn't look it does in this topic, but it's still a ways away and not worth critiquing at this point.

I zoomed in on the volcano bg and noticed that there seems to be a situation with the pixels. The unfinished bg area is actually only 4 colors and so I'm left wondering why a png has corrupted my image. I'll make sure that my next update is not funked up in any way.

It's just that certain feeling, but maybe photobucket has a size limit, and your image is too big? I dont know shit about photobucket, but it looks like it was resized (also looking at the resolution).

[Elk]

really wonderful my cutiepie <3

[Doppleganger]

Apparently there's an 800x600 limit. So I assume that photobucket resized my previous image. That being the case, I cut off some of the image that needn't any attention at the moment.

I've started detailing the bg, which seems like it's going to be a huge undertaking. I'm going to employ a thrifty shortcut though. By detailing the rocks near the lava and simplifying the rocks further away, I should be able to considerably cut down the time this bg will take.

[Helm]

I've started detailing the bg, which seems like it's going to be a huge undertaking. I'm going to employ a thrifty shortcut though. By detailing the rocks near the lava and simplifying the rocks further away, I should be able to considerably cut down the time this bg will take.

Not only is this a good idea for the workflow, it also is a good idea for pulling attention where you need it, and also realistically there's less detail in darkness. So you're covered. It looks great!

[Conzeit]

hrm, there's something about the lava that makes it look way too flat, all those creaces and details make it look like a flourescent tree bark instead of thick rapidly flowing incandesent lava.

Are you consciously trying to make this unrealistically bright? I thought you were going for an incandescent rapidly flowing lava. like this
 http://www.wainscoat.com/lava/flow.jpg http://www.wainscoat.com/lava/large-flow.jpg
But now that you add all these creaces it makes me think you might be going for an dark slow solidfying lava. like this http://boris.vulcanoetna.com/gifs/image/110399_09.jpg
I'm gonna assume you're going for incandescent lava instead of dark lava.

I think the basic aproach you had two posts ago was better for this, it seemed like it was color coded by the amount of flow.The fast moving parts were bright and the slow ones were a little darker. I think if I were you I'd go back to that concept and add some shades to the dark parts http://www.wainscoat.com/lava/toe.jpg somewhat like this kind of effect

If you are not planning to animate the lava, you could be to blur it with smoke http://www.wainscoat.com/lava/large-flow.jpg so that you have a good reason to not detail the lava itself, which would lead you to animating the lava. http://www.wainscoat.com/lava/silhouette.jpg http://www.wainscoat.com/lava/steam.jpg plus those incandescent steam clowds just look way cool, and they would help make the ambience more complete =O


http://images.apple.com/ca/pro/profiles/lanting/images/gallery4.jpg  Amazing looking river of lava, it IS a photo believe it or not. http://www.volcanovillage.com/Kilauea_Volcano_Photo_Gallery_3/Kilauea_Volcano_73102_OverLavaRiver01.jpg http://boris.vulcanoetna.com/gifs/image/130399_04.jpg http://boris.vulcanoetna.com/gifs/image/110399_17.jpg  http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/update/archive/2005/Nov/20051130-0361_RPH_large.jpg http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/update/archive/2005/Nov/20051130-0361_RPH_large.jpg http://boris.vulcanoetna.com/gifs/image/110399_10.jpg  some slightly diferent looking rivers of lava


Also, I dont think you should use the shades that are exclusive to the lava so much on the surrounding rocks, it kinda deminishes the charm of that neon looking lava. If I were you I'd try a completely diferent pallete for the stones behind the lava..
http://www.volcano.si.edu/volcanoes/region02/red_sea/ertaale/2612ert3.jpg See this picture? pay no attention to the thin stings of lava, look at the incandestent color of the lava below, and how good it looks in contrast to those earthly reddish and gray stones.

http://serc.carleton.edu/images/quantskills/methods/lava20021122.jpg you could put parts like this on the edges if you want some dark lava on and some incandescent lava,.This dark lava looks so clearly solidified you wouldnt have to animate it.

[ilkke]

Just a quick thought on the first tile (the forest one).
The bottom tiles considerably worse than the upper bit, and I think it's due to alternating rocks with a log. If you made that fallen log more continuous horizontal-wise (say, winding snake-like) it would be a much less annoying pattern (sine wave vs square). Since I don't see you repeating that mistake in latter tiles, this comment may be obsolete altogether.

[Doppleganger]

Thanks for that in-depth analysis Conceit! I took some time to modify the lava and switch the palette up a bit. It doesn't really hold true to most of the examples you showed me, but I think it looks better than it did before. I'm not sure how much that is saying though. I feel that there's still a lot of room for improvement and it is possible that I'll completely revamp this once again.

@ ilkke:
That's a pretty good point, and one I didn't put much thought into before. I highly doubt I'll be revisiting the forest, but it's definitely something I'll keep in mind. You may be right in saying that it's something I won't repeat, but I assure you that it was subconscious until now.

[Dusty]

Hm... I'm not liking where this is going color-wise. Now it looks like it should be lit(given the purple lighting), and the lava is only secondary... and that just confuses the hell out of me because none of rest of the background is lit. I really do prefer how it was before.

Also... in some ways I agree with Conceit... in others not so much. While most lava flows are mostly bright red/orange, in art it is usually to the extremes, like you had. I'm not sure why, but I'm assuming it's to emphasize on the heat that's coming from it. I do like the colors and texture you're doing in your last edit with the lava though. It may not be realistic, but it really does scream 'I AM LAVA'.

[Redshrike]

I agree; the earlier one seemed to convey a sense of strong, dry heat, something which the newer one has lost.

[boojiboy]

I think the blues and purples are a mistake. Makes it look too cold. Even a little bit of red somewhere would make it look nice.

[Conzeit]

that's good doppleganger.
 I was just trying to make you consider new ways of adressing this, do whatever works for ya!
PS: Are you, or are you not thinking of animating this? cause I think that's key, if you're not animating it I think you should pixel it in a way that shows only hints that it's a current, anything more specific and it'll look like the volcano froze over.....I do have the feeling you havent gotten trough my whole post because I didnt just point to ONE kind of lava.... :p read the whole thing and check all the images, they're good enough I promiss ;p

[ilkke]

I'm in favor of the new colors.
They are somewhat 'whitebread', but the old green and red darkness just didn't cut it for me.
Also I think too much of a hue shift in the far background can make competing with the (assumed) foreground action.

[Larwick]

I agree with the other people about the new palette. Lack of red or orange makes it look like lemonade or custard flowing through purple candy rocks (not that i don't love that)... it doesn't help with the lack of thickness in the lava and the ominous hot scene trying to be portrayed (at least that's what i think you're trying to show). 
The yellow light shining through the cracks in the ground, with the palette, doesn't work as well as it could in my opinion either. When i think of really hot, underground/cave-like lava scenes i see black, crusty ground with red, bright orange lava peering through. The red/orange colour scheme may be generic but it works..
Amazing work though, keep it up! 

[Elk]

maybe like that :0!

but i think you shouldnt detail the background that much :x

[Doppleganger]

@Dusty
I can totally see where you're coming from with the secondary lighting.

@Redshrike
Yes, the dryness definitely left the building with this one

@Conceit
I don't plan to animate the lava. You make a valid point about it looking froze over though. I did read your entire post and checked all of the images, but ultimately I ended up with something that turned out to be nothing like any of the images. I plan to revisit the whole lava part and will take into account the images once again.

@Ilkke
Thanks, I agree with the hue-shift theory for sure, I've totally been swayed by the masses as far as the palette goes though.

@larwick
That candystand comment is the most important comment I've read going against the palette. While the rest are all quite valid- that one really hits home. A lollipop is certainly not what I'm trying to convey.  I plan to revisit the palette for the foreground too, so the colors you currently see are only temporary.

@Elk
That's great! I really dig the colors in that. The lava would probably need a buffer color, but yeah that's sexy. I think I'll use that as some inspiration. I'll probably kill the illumination in the darker tones a bit. It's just a tad too vivid currently.


And now, I switched to the next bg in the queue because I've got a certain schedule going on and the bgs are kind of running into each other. The volcano, due to its size is going to take a while, so I thought that I'd get the lesser bgs done with promptly. What we have here is the open road. Just an open road, very simple...



Pretty early and rough, the trees in the foreground are done though. Any suggestions on how to improve it are appreciated and will be considered.

[ilkke]

Just a couple of quick ideas:
First, I think it would be sexy if at one point the foreground branches overlapped with the bottom of the road. They look a bit schematic confined in their own stripe like this.
Second, the clouds are MAYBE a bit too contrast-y compared to the mountains.
Third, add some more elements behind those trees in the back, or maybe move the left one further away or bring the other one forward a bit.

[Doppleganger]

Hopefully took into account everything you said. All of it seemed to be pretty useful. I believe that I'll be adding small random things to break the monotony, after the main part is done, such as; rocks, small plants, divots in the grass, etc...etc... And the greenish area behind the trees will be a mountain range, in case you didn't know. The path and the sky will have their palettes tweaked I can almost guarantee.

[Dusty]

I think you're a step ahead of yourself this time when it comes to tiling and breaking the pattern. Except... for that little piece of the foreground branch that sticks out the most.

[Conzeit]

it looks fine to me so far...but I think the trees both in the background and the foreground might be in danger depending on how you work on them.

You might EITHER make the details too specifical....OR just right for this kind of tile...like your original forest.

You might make it look too much like certain branch of petals belongs to certain branch of tree...and I think the opposite works better with this kind of tiled picture. You know, like your original forest tileset where all of the branches of the tree sort of merged together into a big sea of leafs.

if I would suggest anything besides watching that specificality.......it would be maybe to add a dark blue(or whatever color you want) tint from halfway in the road to the background...to give a little more depth, make those blossoms sort of fade into a fog in the background.

Uhm......I think you're developing an unhealthy need for specifical details...considering that you're working on such obviously tiled tiles. Why dont you try drawing some kickass character to make a catharsis of specificality?  I think you might find yourself more relaxed while working on this if you do that hehe

[Doppleganger]

 
I think you might be right about all this detail business. Try as I might, I find it excruciatingly difficult to avoid adding detail. I'm not sure if it's my shading style or what, but something prevents me from being happy with how things look without detail. I can't really break the style of the backgrounds thus far, but after this project I totally need to go on a simplicity spree in order to hone my skills.



Nonetheless, this is what I came up with. I think it's pretty proper. Well enough I'd say. I've got a month to kick out the volcano, an equally sized outdoor bath house and then another exceptionally large arena/temple interior. Time is tickin' so I must keep on pushin.

[ilkke]

I think that the mountains texture is in conflict with the trees in front of it. I believe it might be fixed by just tweaking the colors, that is, making the darkest colors in the mountains spread a bit lighter. Or better yet, try to blend them mountains more with the sky (air perspective and shit) by changing the palette. Also the lower edge of the path could go towards dark as well, to define it more. While I'm nitpicking, the fence is a bit close to he path, maybe move it a bit upwards so it can also overlap with the bottom of those trees.

[Doppleganger]

All stellar suggestions. I forgot about adding the cherry blossom petals along the grass, so I'll just incorporate your suggestions into the final stretch. I think that I could probably do with removing the outline along the top of the mountains too.

[Elwin]

Just dropping by to say that all these are great  Though, maybe a little tiny bit more contrast on the darkest shade of the sky?

[Redshrike]

I have to say, there are few subjects to pixelation that I love more than cherry trees.  These look great!  However, the ones in front look a little off to me; it almost seems like the branches are too thick compared to how many blossoms they have.  It almost gives it the effect of a picture of a tangle of leafless branches with petals pasted on top of it.
Also, the sky looks amazing!

[Doppleganger]

Thanks Elwin, I took your advice with the darkest shade of the sky.

Thanks Redshrike, you're totally right about the foreground branches. It could be that I constructed them in exactly the way you described. It's way too late to do anything now, but I guess I'll have to think of a way to avoid that from here on out. Although, it is worth mentioning, that the clumps of petals help with removing the already evident tiling.



This is the end result. Thanks everybody for your help on this one. It's time to go back to the volcano. *shudders*

[ilkke]

Are they all finished now? When can we see the final results?

[Doppleganger]

I wish they were. I'm still working on the volcano background. I got sick for a while and had to put this project on the backburner. I'm shooting to be done with the volcano and two other backgrounds within the next two weeks. I will update the volcano background soon enough though. I believe I've made a fair amount of progress since the last time I posted it.