AuthorTopic: [WIP] Arcade Academy  (Read 39998 times)

Offline robotacon

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 222
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • robotacon
    • View Profile
    • It Got Dark

[WIP] Arcade Academy

on: July 03, 2007, 05:54:22 pm
I'm greatful for all C&C I can get. Everything is WIP.

IDEA:
Arcade Academy is going to be a game where you play as young students of a video game hero school.

FORM:
All the teachers are former video game characters and classes you attend are in the form of arcade style mini games. The main part of the game however takes place in platform mode as seen by the sprites below. The students parents all are highly respected game protagonists from all kinds of different games which also serve as harder to reach levels. There's also a rival schools that you interact with.

GFX:





« Last Edit: May 31, 2009, 09:09:59 pm by robotacon »

Offline PypeBros

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1220
  • Karma: +2/-0
  • Pixel Padawan
    • PypeBros
    • View Profile
    • Bilou Homebrew's Blog.

Re: space-man walk-cycle

Reply #1 on: July 03, 2007, 06:31:42 pm
there seem to be weird things on the arms and something like a flashing green thing when the front leg is about to move forward again ...

That makes it difficult for judging the rest :-/

Offline robotacon

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 222
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • robotacon
    • View Profile
    • It Got Dark

Re: [WIP] space-man walk-cycle

Reply #2 on: July 03, 2007, 06:45:11 pm
Sorry, I fixed the flashing hand.

I'm guessing the weird things on his arms is what I meant to be a chest plate and a back pack.

Offline robotacon

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 222
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • robotacon
    • View Profile
    • It Got Dark

Re: [WIP] space-man walk-cycle

Reply #3 on: July 03, 2007, 06:51:54 pm
Now I removed some gear for clarity.

Offline ptoing

  • Moderator
  • 0101
  • *
  • Posts: 3063
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • variegated quadrangle arranger
    • the_ptoing
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/2191.htm
    • View Profile
    • Perpetually inactive website

Re: [WIP] space-man walk-cycle

Reply #4 on: July 03, 2007, 08:02:50 pm
It's a decent start, but you have some fundamental flaws going on.

- In the frames 10-1-2 and 5-6-7 the forward foot is making REALLY odd stuff, jumping and snapping around.

- In frames 1-2 and 6-7 the arms stay the same, no reason for that.

- In the same frames the backwards foot/ lower leg shrinks into the knee. It's important in animation to keep the volumes consistant.

- The arms are slightly different on each of the 2 steps, but why did you just put the legs at the same place and make the back one darker. Even if you make it darker which works well in videogames, you should make them a bit different. And if you make the farther leg darker you should do the same with the arm.

not regarding the animation, the antialias on the outside of the helmet does not help.

Keep it up  :y:


There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline bengo

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 566
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • My Art Tumblr

Re: [WIP] space-man walk-cycle

Reply #5 on: July 03, 2007, 08:58:35 pm
I'm loving this piece, but it looks a bit odd that the behind leg is darker than the behind arm, would they be the same(I know that was worded horribly but eh, I'm tired)?

Offline Jad

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1048
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] space-man walk-cycle

Reply #6 on: July 03, 2007, 10:43:52 pm
Now I removed some gear for clarity.

Good stuff. You should add a little subtle animation to his arms, he'll look a bit too stiff without it, I reckon, your frame count is quite high but it doesn't show, since his arms are so snappy.

Also, being a spaceman, wouldn't he be walking around in a lot of places with low gravity? Just a feeling I have, if so, you don't need all that heaviness. If he's in an area with earth-like gravity, I suppose his gear would weigh him down a bit.

Otherwise it's a good walk, just make sure that the soles of his shoes make a smooth line as they travel, it's one of the keys to a flowing walk. As of now it's snappy and it's one of the only things that doesn't work.
' _ '

Offline robotacon

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 222
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • robotacon
    • View Profile
    • It Got Dark

Re: [WIP] space-man walk-cycle

Reply #7 on: July 04, 2007, 08:09:10 am
Thanks for the constructive criticism. It helps a lot!
I've tried to follow your instructions and this is what I have now:



The arms are not as stiff and I've tilted the feet differently than I did before.
I also added a a little hint of the arms appearing when the arms are straight down so that they don't pop out so fast.

Other than that there is some clean up of stray pixels that seemed to blip/blink.

EDIT:
 I removed the AA on the helmet as pointed out by ptoing. It didn't help and I've tried to stay away from AA in the rest of the piece as well so it looks better without.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2007, 08:11:51 am by robotacon »

Offline Jad

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1048
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] space-man walk-cycle

Reply #8 on: July 04, 2007, 11:37:27 am
Thanks for the constructive criticism. It helps a lot!
I've tried to follow your instructions and this is what I have now:



The arms are not as stiff and I've tilted the feet differently than I did before.
I also added a a little hint of the arms appearing when the arms are straight down so that they don't pop out so fast.

Other than that there is some clean up of stray pixels that seemed to blip/blink.

EDIT:
 I removed the AA on the helmet as pointed out by ptoing. It didn't help and I've tried to stay away from AA in the rest of the piece as well so it looks better without.

Just a big thumbs up for you! This is a great improvement, it's flowy and nice, just how I like my walks :]

Good job! He looks really funky in a way, and I'm digging it.
' _ '

Offline am_pm

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 94
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Lurker supreme
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] space-man walk-cycle

Reply #9 on: July 04, 2007, 05:06:21 pm
Now, I think this might be a personal preference, but I suggest you darken the blinding white light of the helmet. It is distracting and takes away from the very nice walk cycle you have going.

Offline Mighty Pea

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] space-man walk-cycle

Reply #10 on: July 04, 2007, 08:13:29 pm
Unless it's going to be shown at a small size (on my 17" at 1024x768, it looks great at 1x), i'd agree with am_pm. At smaller sizes, the white increases readability, but as size increases the white really ends up fighting for your attention. Lovely animation, i must say.

Offline Xion

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1551
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • FourbitFriday

Re: [WIP] space-man walk-cycle

Reply #11 on: July 04, 2007, 08:44:11 pm
The image isn't showing up for me. :(
I copied the url and it said page not found.
Iwannaseeit!

Offline robotacon

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 222
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • robotacon
    • View Profile
    • It Got Dark

Re: [WIP] space-man walk-cycle

Reply #12 on: July 05, 2007, 04:28:35 am
Thanks all for the C+C.

I think it's going to be x2 for the game, most likely. I'll see what Ican do with the helmet, perhaps a darker shade on the lower part would do it?

I'm at my GF and will be off for a few days but when I'm back I'll keep working on more animations for this guy.


Offline robotacon

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 222
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • robotacon
    • View Profile
    • It Got Dark

Re: [WIP] space-man (now armed)

Reply #13 on: July 07, 2007, 04:21:31 pm
More of the same, this time firing a rocket-launcher and running with a hand gun.





Any comments?

ps. I added some shade to the dome-helmet

Offline rabidbaboy

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 318
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Jesus Beam!
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] space-man (now armed)

Reply #14 on: July 08, 2007, 09:19:56 am
Very nice.
On the cannon, add some rotational/horizontal movement.
And make it a bit slower.:)
"Baboy" is Filipino for pig.

Offline robotacon

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 222
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • robotacon
    • View Profile
    • It Got Dark

Re: [WIP] space-man (now armed)

Reply #15 on: July 08, 2007, 01:05:05 pm
Thanx rabidbaboy, I'll see if I can add a tilt to the recoil on the rocket launcher.

Here's Player 2:

Offline LoTekK

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 215
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
    • LoTekK.com

Re: [WIP] space-man (now armed)

Reply #16 on: July 08, 2007, 02:26:15 pm
There are actually two schools of thought, so to speak, on rocket launchers. I'm of the belief that rocket launchers shouldn't really display any recoil at all, but you offset that fact by dumping a metric shitload of smoke and flame out the back. Most larger weapons that I've used are built on a recoilless principle, whether it's recoilless rifles, or LAW launchers, whereby you feel no recoil from the shot, since all the propellant is blown out the [open] rear end of the weapon. Personally I think it'd look cooler with maybe a slight rearwards nudge, accompanied by a bucketload of smoke and flame out the rear.

Nice anims so far, btw. The run is nicely animated and cutesy. :)

Offline robotacon

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 222
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • robotacon
    • View Profile
    • It Got Dark

Re: [WIP] space-man (now armed)

Reply #17 on: July 08, 2007, 04:03:01 pm
There are actually two schools of thought, so to speak, on rocket launchers. I'm of the belief that rocket launchers shouldn't really display any recoil at all, but you offset that fact by dumping a metric shitload of smoke and flame out the back. Most larger weapons that I've used are built on a recoilless principle, whether it's recoilless rifles, or LAW launchers, whereby you feel no recoil from the shot, since all the propellant is blown out the [open] rear end of the weapon. Personally I think it'd look cooler with maybe a slight rearwards nudge, accompanied by a bucketload of smoke and flame out the rear.

Nice anims so far, btw. The run is nicely animated and cutesy. :)

That's true, I forgot about that. I actually had that in mind when I did the animation. I'll see what it looks like later on when an actual heat-seeker is fired.

I've had similar thoughts about the hand-gun, to reduce the recoil if possible.

Offline Xion

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1551
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • FourbitFriday

Re: [WIP] space-man (now armed)

Reply #18 on: July 09, 2007, 08:41:01 pm
Oooh, I see them now. Awesomeness abounds. ;D
one thing that looks weird to me - the one thing - is that when they run, their near arms snap forward from the rearest position to the side, but everything else is smooth. I dunno if you did that on purpose, but it looks like a mistake among the smoothiness of the rest of the run anim.
That's it. I really really like these.

Offline robotacon

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 222
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • robotacon
    • View Profile
    • It Got Dark

Re: [WIP] space-man (anim + mockup)

Reply #19 on: July 10, 2007, 06:58:58 pm
Thanks Xion, I appreciate you saying that.

I've tried to update the running anims so that there is less snap in the arms in just that one frame. In the original cycle I wanted sort of a bouncy feel but now with all the feedback it's much better with a smoother animation.



I also started doing some tiles. The inspiration would be from all the mockups I've seen on this board.
I can't say I went for something original. Perhaps you guys can come with some pointer on how to stir it up a bit.



Oh, and I almost forgot, The color schema is my variant of Arnes now famous 16 color palette.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2007, 07:13:16 pm by robotacon »

Offline miascugh

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 361
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Schnitzelfiend
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] space-man (anim + tiles)

Reply #20 on: July 10, 2007, 11:03:00 pm
quick crit: The shoulder-pads need to move in the running animation! And the run probably would need to be faster in-game, or else the gameplay might turn out too slow.

I like the sprites a lot. The old-school black void background not so much, though.

Offline robotacon

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 222
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • robotacon
    • View Profile
    • It Got Dark

Re: [WIP] space-man (anim + tiles)

Reply #21 on: July 11, 2007, 06:59:34 am
Initially they did tilt around with the arm but it looked too mechanical, here's a new edit. Was it something like this you had in mind?



Also added some background to the cave.



Better?

Offline robotacon

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 222
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • robotacon
    • View Profile
    • It Got Dark

Re: [WIP] space-man (anim + tiles)

Reply #22 on: July 14, 2007, 07:31:20 am
I've added another weapon to the arsenal. The idea is to use a particle system for the acid later on.
It looks like it could be a pretty useful weapon to fire on enemies that are below you on another floor perhaps.



I tried to make it look like the acid jet is heavier than the hand gun. There are so few pixels to work with though so I'm having a hard time with the arms looking too stiff.
Tilting the gun when running is out of the question and finding an elbow is really hard.

Also, wouldn't it be great if you could see approximately how much acid you have left by looking at the canister? 1 px per 8 shots would make 40 shots per canister.

Offline JonathanOfDrain

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 292
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Lonely
    • View Profile
    • TheyWillEat.Us

Re: [WIP] space-man (anim + tiles)

Reply #23 on: July 14, 2007, 07:48:19 am
Looks like it would have the same force as a super soaker, not a fire hose. But I think it's fine since things needed to be exaggerated here and there. I hope the "shot" looks different, I guessing that's a fill in.

Offline robotacon

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 222
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • robotacon
    • View Profile
    • It Got Dark

Re: [WIP] space-man (anim + tiles)

Reply #24 on: July 14, 2007, 07:56:06 am
Looks like it would have the same force as a super soaker, not a fire hose. But I think it's fine since things needed to be exaggerated here and there. I hope the "shot" looks different, I guessing that's a fill in.

What do you mean? You think it should have a longer range?
Explain what you think is wrong.

I had in mind something stronger than a super soaker, for all we know it's an electrically powered acid-jet.
Perhaps I should have made it fire at least twice as long.

Offline rabidbaboy

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 318
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Jesus Beam!
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] space-man (anim + tiles)

Reply #25 on: July 14, 2007, 10:23:57 am
I think what he means is it looks weak.
A thicker blast perhaps?

Right now it's like piss, you know.

But I guess it's all in the effect; if it makes people melt, then it might be preferrable to a handgun.

I like that background. Are those green things supposed to be stalactites (stalaCtites -> Ceiling, stalaGmites-> Ground :P)? They look like grass though, maybe you'd want to change the color. The shapes don't seem to be organic, they look like bricks instead of ground tiles. IS this what you had in mind?:O
"Baboy" is Filipino for pig.

Offline JonathanOfDrain

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 292
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Lonely
    • View Profile
    • TheyWillEat.Us

Re: [WIP] space-man (anim + tiles)

Reply #26 on: July 14, 2007, 11:23:36 am
Sorry for not explaining, I think the gun has too much recoil. Also it's like it stops in mid-air. It should be "falling" the whole time instead of falling once it hits something. Anyone else agree? Do you agree robotacon?

Offline robotacon

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 222
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • robotacon
    • View Profile
    • It Got Dark

Re: [WIP] space-man (anim + tiles)

Reply #27 on: July 14, 2007, 11:45:29 am
I see what you mean. Perhaps it shouldn't look like piss but I'm happy to hear it looks like liquid.
Making people melt sounds like a good idea. Would be hell to pixel though.

The green stuff is supposed to be organic like grass or some space fungus thing. The ground tiles are irregular bricks/rocks and everything between is just dirt, mud and stones.
I wanted to get a feeling of something not exactly human but still humanoid.

Here's the latest update, did work mostly on the HUD.

The ammo section should only show the ammo for the current weapon.
It now displays ammo for the stun-gun, dart-gun, acid-jet, rocket-launcher and the grenade-chucker.



I feel that it's not as other-worldly as I had hoped for though, currently it almost looks medieval which wasn't what I was going for.

Offline Helm

  • Moderator
  • 0110
  • *
  • Posts: 5159
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Asides-Bsides

Re: [WIP] space-man (anim + tiles)

Reply #28 on: July 14, 2007, 12:24:31 pm



Complementary color separation between foreground and background. Give it a try.

Offline Faceless

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 423
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] space-man (anim + tiles)

Reply #29 on: July 14, 2007, 12:50:10 pm
Heh, I was reading through the thread, and just about to put in words what Helm so perfectly illustrated.
It seems that I am alone, but I like the acid gun as is... It's very comical, and I like that.

Offline Feron

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1123
  • Karma: +0/-1
  • Carpe Diem
    • View Profile
    • Pixelheart

Re: [WIP] space-man (anim + tiles)

Reply #30 on: July 14, 2007, 06:35:50 pm
i think it'd be cool if the acid gun could burn tiles too.

awesome work so far!

Offline Crow

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 645
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Technicanimal
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] space-man (anim + tiles)

Reply #31 on: July 14, 2007, 07:08:32 pm
Together with that acid gun, that guy totally looks like he would fit into a game just like Heart of Darkness <3

Offline robotacon

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 222
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • robotacon
    • View Profile
    • It Got Dark

Re: [WIP] space-man (anim + tiles)

Reply #32 on: July 14, 2007, 09:14:29 pm
Thanks for the good feed-back guys.

Helm:
I like the cold background on top of the warm foreground. I'm not sure about dropping the 100% black though, was that on purpose?
Currently I think I did something along the lines of just darkening the background by 50%.
I'll see what I can make with complementary colors.

Feron:
I plan on having destroyable tiles so if you splash them with acid I'd think they would melt.

Crow:
I never did play Heart of Darkness but I take that as a complement.

Again, thanks for the help.

Offline Helm

  • Moderator
  • 0110
  • *
  • Posts: 5159
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Asides-Bsides

Re: [WIP] space-man (anim + tiles)

Reply #33 on: July 14, 2007, 11:25:04 pm
robot, yeah it was on purpose but I didn't do it because of some specific reason. Just an idea.

Offline robotacon

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 222
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • robotacon
    • View Profile
    • It Got Dark

Re: [WIP] space-man (anim + tiles)

Reply #34 on: July 15, 2007, 08:59:29 am
I've now taken Helms advice, or rather just multiply the foreground tiles with 58,105,139 to get a background palette with a blueish tint.
I suck at picking out colors manually so I'd rather trust automation to pick colors for me.



While going through my files I found the setup file I used for creating the tile grid that I've used. I figured someone might find it useful.



Step 1. I first started drawing the layout of the screen at 1/8 the size before resizing it to 256x192.
Step 2. I then created an area 6 pixels smaller from the edges.
Step 3. After that I created an area 8 pixels even smaller.
Step 4. Finally I applied a 8x8 grid on top of the whole screen.

With this setup I could get a quick start and continue drawing the actual tiles in Pro Motion with the Auto Tile Completion tool.

The plan is to create most of the map using a simple bitmap and have a translator create the final map file.

Offline Helm

  • Moderator
  • 0110
  • *
  • Posts: 5159
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Asides-Bsides

Re: [WIP] space-man (anim + tiles)

Reply #35 on: July 15, 2007, 02:40:10 pm
automation for colors costs you. I handpicked my colors and put in there a green, a red, and a blue of various intensities and values to balance and complement the foreground. You now have a green background. Don't be afraid, try picking colors by hand.

Offline robotacon

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 222
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • robotacon
    • View Profile
    • It Got Dark

Re: [WIP] space-man (anim + tiles)

Reply #36 on: July 18, 2007, 12:36:53 pm
Updated the tiles so they look more like something an ancient civilization put together.
Anyhow... I've also updated the tile set so that it tiles better when combined in different shapes.



And here's the latest mock-up.



It might seem that I'm moving away form the space theme so I'll make some of the aliens that built these structures to compensate.

Offline robotacon

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 222
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • robotacon
    • View Profile
    • It Got Dark

Re: [WIP] space-man (anim + tiles)

Reply #37 on: August 04, 2007, 10:07:00 am
I'm still animating my little space-man and now after lots of tweaking I've got a climb worthy of being posted.
If you see something that doesn't look right, please let me know.



I've also started to experiment with different types of uniforms for different characters.



Still no aliens though... I'm thinking of some mix of man and animal, like a wolf-man or something. Perhaps fish-people?

Offline Xion

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1551
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • FourbitFriday

Re: [WIP] space-man (anim + tiles)

Reply #38 on: August 04, 2007, 10:16:04 am
I don't get the red face of the last one.
What is it?

In the first one in the blue suit, the shooting animation looks like it could use the far arm outstretched behind for balance or something.

Offline robotacon

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 222
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • robotacon
    • View Profile
    • It Got Dark

Re: [WIP] space-man (anim + tiles)

Reply #39 on: August 05, 2007, 12:37:35 am
gotcha on balance on the first one.
The "red face" is a ruby inlay on the helmet. If it's weird I'll change it.

Offline Stefano

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 76
  • Karma: +1/-0
  • 10 different types of soup
    • View Profile
    • DeviantART profile

Re: [WIP] space-man (anim + tiles)

Reply #40 on: August 05, 2007, 04:39:51 am
Since it's a partial inlay, one might think (as I did  :) ) that it's some kind of liquid or jelly filling the inside of the helmet.
Although now I see what you meant to represent, I can totally see a playable alien ally race, native to a red liquid environment, wearing this type of helmet to "breathe".

Offline nizzate

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 13
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] space-man (anim + tiles)

Reply #41 on: August 05, 2007, 05:44:24 am




looks great but the one thing that bothers me is the acid gun shooting.  It looks like liquid at first but then it looks like its a rope.  You made the liquid all stay together too much the whole way through. There are a few things i noticed that were strange about it.  The last drops of the acid fall behind the gun. Unless there was a strong wind blowing that couldn't happen.  The last drops have almost no thrust at all. and i don't think the stream should fall backwards. it should reach its maximum distance and fall forward constantly to the ground  I think i would make the last of the stream shoot out a little further or make it separate into smaller drips and and fall on the ground. I still think it just needs some randomness in it.  Try to look at every few pixels and clump them in your mind as single drops and think how where they would go. Thats my advice but nobody else seemed to mention anything about it.  Great work keep going!

Offline robotacon

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 222
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • robotacon
    • View Profile
    • It Got Dark

Re: [WIP] space-man (anim + tiles)

Reply #42 on: September 03, 2007, 06:14:47 am
I'm still working on my space-man game. I currently have a build that reads maps and I have a couple of token monsters that you can run around and shoot. The protoype looks pretty much like the last mock-up I did.

I'm having trouble with the crawling animation though because it should really be some Z-axis movement in there but I'm trying to "cheat" that by moving the limbs along the X-axis only. Anyone have an idea for a better approach?

I also had to create some aming frames so that I could shoot down all the monsters (not so many) I've created. . The one aiming up needs to lean forward that much so that you can shoot along walls when you stand close to them. I know the back legs look a littte awkward.

I'm also experimenting with vehicles at the moment. I'd really like some C&C on this one. and this one .

Finally, I "had" to create a plug-in for Pro Motion to create map files for the game since I use images at 1/8-size for maps. I'm having no trouble pulling information from Pro Motion and storing the results in a new file. What I would like to do is write the result back to Pro Motion but all I get is an empty gray frame. I think it has to do with the fact that I'm not creating a true 8-bit DIB. If someone has done something like this in C# please let me know.

/Robo
« Last Edit: September 04, 2007, 11:15:14 am by robotacon »

Offline robotacon

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 222
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • robotacon
    • View Profile
    • It Got Dark

Re: [WIP] space-man (anim + tiles)

Reply #43 on: September 08, 2007, 06:16:10 am
Here's a screenshot from the latest build. It's not tileing correctly because I have some issues with my map generator plug-in for Pro Motion but since I'm shading the background tiles in real-time it's still playable. The only creatures you can play against are stupid gel-blobs that mimic metroid zoomers by crawling around on the walls.

The reason I'm showing you this screenshot is to get some feedback on the border around the player and creatures. The border is drawn with a slight opacity which might feel blasphemous for some pixelators.



I'd also like some feedback on this climbing animation:

Offline BlueCheer

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 36
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] space-man (anim + tiles)

Reply #44 on: September 08, 2007, 07:45:17 am
hmm would you have to jump up to the top to climb it ??? and the items should be more then just 1 color with a darker outline (talking bout those green things.)

Offline ndchristie

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 2426
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] space-man (anim + tiles)

Reply #45 on: September 08, 2007, 03:39:21 pm
i don't know about other people, but when i jump a fence I jump(/climb if it's a high one) to grab the top then pull with my arms and shoot up to get one foot on (then I turn around, dangle off, and let go when im close to the ground...but that's specifically fences).  this guy almost looks like he's got a fishing line in his mouth and is being dragged up and over.
A mistake is a mistake.
The same mistake twice is a bad habit.
The same mistake three or more times is a motif.

Offline Arachne

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 309
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
    • Retinal Eclipse

Re: [WIP] space-man (anim + tiles)

Reply #46 on: September 08, 2007, 05:23:57 pm
What happened to the darker blue background? It made everything much easier to see.

Your power-ups are difficult to spot, even with a darker background. I suggest making them bigger or adding a bright outline or both.

I like the first vehicle, but the second seems awkward to me. I've seen people ride bicycles like that, and it makes me shudder. I don't know what the idea behind a design like that is, but I think you'll have a lot more control with the balance point placed higher up.

Your space man is not jumping quite high enough to be able to grab onto the ledge. He should also start reaching before he grabs on. Next, while he kicks off with his leg, he should use his arms to push his torso up from the platform so that he can get his knee onto it. Then he can push himself up to get on his feet.

Offline Bouzolf

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 36
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • I'm a Quebecer, i like pink and I'm 14 years old.
    • View Profile
    • My PJ Galery

Re: [WIP] space-man (anim + tiles)

Reply #47 on: September 08, 2007, 05:27:04 pm
This might help for the climb: http://youtube.com/watch?v=OcOyjr2ahGI.
My English is poor, sorry about that..

Offline robotacon

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 222
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • robotacon
    • View Profile
    • It Got Dark

Re: [WIP] space-man (anim + tiles)

Reply #48 on: September 09, 2007, 12:26:34 am
BlueCheer:
You don't have to jump up on things to climb them I guess. I've already got a thing implemented so that you'll automatically do a little jump/skip when you run against things that are one block/tile high. This would work for things that are two tiles high or eight tiles if you jump for it. I'm sorry for the green and yellow blobs, they are placeholders that most likely won't be in the game in their current for because they are too hard to hit. You have to lay down on the ground to aim at them.

Adarias, Arachne, Bouzolf:
I've tried to summarize all your different feedback and made this new climb.
.

Arachne:
The motorcycle looks a little dull. It would need to be a sports bike but perhaps I could sci-fi-ify it somehow.

Offline Souly

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 957
  • Karma: +0/-1
  • Killer of threads.
    • View Profile
    • Punkys Portfolio

Re: [WIP] space-man (anim + tiles)

Reply #49 on: September 09, 2007, 12:37:25 am
I think you should still have the jump to the wall.
I don't like the feel of him stopping at the bottom and then climbing it.

Offline robotacon

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 222
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • robotacon
    • View Profile
    • It Got Dark

Re: [WIP] space-man (anim + tiles)

Reply #50 on: September 09, 2007, 12:48:19 am
I think you should still have the jump to the wall.
I don't like the feel of him stopping at the bottom and then climbing it.

I know what you mean but I was hoping (is that how it's spelled because it's not a pun) to use the jump animation that I've already got. The climb/heave animation starts when you grab on to the ledge and ends when you're standing up. I put in a token jump frame at the end but it looks like crap. My bad. I'll update the animation I've got posted to accommodate for the jump.

Edit 1:
This is (almost) what I expect it to look when you do a 8 block jump + ledge climb.
The actual jump looks better in-game with proper physics, I had to wing it making the gif-animation.


Edit 2:
The troublesome part is stringing together different animations as seamless as possible. I've got the running animation stopping on the frames where both feet are in the air which makes for a really nice jump animation. This means that the player changes which foot is forward for every jump which looks great. For this to string together with the ledge climb animation I added some frames where he's reaching for it like you suggested Arachne.

Edit 3:
Looking at these last animations I feel that it's a little stupid that you'd climb 3 blocks when you can jump 5 without climbing.

Edit 4:
I added block heights to the ledge climbing animation. while doing that I realized that the animation is inaccuratly displayed because the platform is not moving at a constant pace, nor is the space-man fixed in position which would be another way to do it. Now things kind of move at irregular speeds as a result of me winging this gif by hand.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2007, 07:51:13 am by robotacon »

Offline Silver

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 214
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] space-man (anim + tiles)

Reply #51 on: September 09, 2007, 10:54:34 am
It's been a while since I've seen a graphics of a serious project. I really like the style of those animations and the environment of the level however I think most of the planets "not earth of course" miss the elements of plants which I define the green thing in between the tiles as. Anyways this is just my opinion.
Good luck with the project and keep us updated, I really want to try this game. 

Offline ndchristie

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 2426
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] space-man (anim + tiles)

Reply #52 on: September 09, 2007, 11:34:26 pm
when he pulls himself up with his arms, I would have him bend his knees so that his feet are behind him, I personally find that i do this subconsciously when climbing and that it's also the most natural thing in such a case.  Currently he's taking very difficult and unnecessary steps against the wall that seem like they should be a good idea but i'm not convinced by them.
A mistake is a mistake.
The same mistake twice is a bad habit.
The same mistake three or more times is a motif.

Offline robotacon

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 222
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • robotacon
    • View Profile
    • It Got Dark

Re: [WIP] space-boy (anim + tiles)

Reply #53 on: September 12, 2007, 01:51:24 pm
I've tried to improve on the ledge crawl.


I tried to have him pull him self up with the knees bent so that the feet would be behind him but his short arms and big head made it really hard to do that.
Instead I made him pull in the knee and tried to make the leg movement more distinct.


Also..... introducing grandpa:
« Last Edit: September 12, 2007, 01:55:17 pm by robotacon »

Offline robotacon

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 222
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • robotacon
    • View Profile
    • It Got Dark

Re: [WIP] Arcade Academy

Reply #54 on: October 11, 2007, 10:13:09 pm
Hi everyone, long time no see!

Haven't had much spare time lately taking care of my 5 month old daughter and moving from one place to another.

Just wanted to tell you that my space-man game is taking a new turn  and I'm now going for a Harry Potter inspired Arcade Academy storyline.

Arcade Academy is going to be a game where you play as young students of a videogame hero school. All the teachers are former videogame characters and classes you attend are in the form of arcade style mini games. The main part of the game however takes place in flatform mode as seen by the sprites below. The students parents all are highly respected game protagonists from all kinds of different games which also serve as harder to reach levels. There's also a rival schools that you interact with.

I've also started to (blasphemy alert!) experiment with shaders and bump mapping. I haven't gotten that good results yet but I'm hoping to have full real time rendered lights as some time.



Bumpmapping sprites sounds like a stupid idea but I think it's possible to pull it off in a nice way.

EDIT: Resized screenshot to 1x1 so it scales better when right-clicked.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2007, 07:07:43 am by robotacon »

Offline Souly

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 957
  • Karma: +0/-1
  • Killer of threads.
    • View Profile
    • Punkys Portfolio

Re: [WIP] Arcade Academy

Reply #55 on: October 11, 2007, 10:31:12 pm
It looks like the character has become a jpeg.  :'(
And it hurts my soul the simple pixel ones were beauty.

Offline Camdog

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Brawk!
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] Arcade Academy

Reply #56 on: October 11, 2007, 11:26:52 pm
Awsome work, Robot. The animations are really looking excellent. What are you planning to make for enemies? Sentient slimes, space bugs, haywire robots, perhaps some foot soldiers from a paramilitary organization bent on universal conquest?


Hold up.

Am I the only one seeing this message box as a strange golden color instead of the regular grayish color? What on earth is going on?
« Last Edit: October 12, 2007, 02:06:33 am by Camdog »

Offline Souly

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 957
  • Karma: +0/-1
  • Killer of threads.
    • View Profile
    • Punkys Portfolio

Re: [WIP] Arcade Academy

Reply #57 on: October 12, 2007, 06:30:32 am
Am I the only one seeing this message box as a strange golden color instead of the regular grayish color? What on earth is going on?
It happens when you click the link of that post.

Offline robotacon

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 222
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • robotacon
    • View Profile
    • It Got Dark

Re: [WIP] Arcade Academy

Reply #58 on: October 12, 2007, 07:03:19 am
Camdog: Bang on target! Something like that. Love your foot soldiers. Since the enemies won't have as many different types of animations I'll definitely spend a couple of frames on death sequences.

Souly: It's not a jpeg. I know it looks a little strange right now but I was hoping that you would like the concept. I think it's going to look better animated when the light changes dynamically and a lot of the time it will be so subtle that it will look just like normal pixelart. I don't want to hurt someones pixel soul. I feel the same way about the AA in Circ the Machine. Modesty is the my middlename.

I think this board is great. I can't pixel half as good as most of you guys and without your C&C this game would have been going nowhere. Perhaps it doesn't sound like I'm listening to what you're saying sometimes but I do.

I've been trying to draw backgrounds for the school which the main character attends but it's freakishly hard. I'm no mock-up wizard like so many of you guys. I'm going to try and use references from real schools for inspiration and work from there. Hopefully that will help some.

Offline robotacon

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 222
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • robotacon
    • View Profile
    • It Got Dark

Re: [WIP] Arcade Academy

Reply #59 on: October 27, 2007, 01:03:57 pm
I'm far from finished on the dynamic light routine but this is what I've currently got.



This version of the code will only draw 16 color sprites to reduce some of that soul sucking jpeg look.
Also the prior code was making areas in shadow darker when the highlights was turned on which is against the laws of physics.

on a side note: Drawing depth maps is a real drag!  :'(

Edit: I've borrowed some code from an XNA tutorial. the lighsource is supposed to go in a circle around the sprite.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2007, 01:09:43 pm by robotacon »

Offline crab2selout.png

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 643
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • lost my left-most pixel in the war
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] Arcade Academy

Reply #60 on: October 28, 2007, 02:32:27 am
Oh wow, that looks pretty cool actually. Works really well at picking your colours. Nothing really strange looking in there. Definitely could see this working in a sprite with little AA like yours. Do you need to draw the depth map for every time your sprite changes(like in an animation?). The white specular in the helmet looks odd now though.

BTW, is anyone else unable to see any of the images posted by robotacon in this thread? I gotta use anonymouse.org or else nothing shows up besides the text

Offline robotacon

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 222
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • robotacon
    • View Profile
    • It Got Dark

Re: [WIP] Arcade Academy

Reply #61 on: October 28, 2007, 08:48:46 pm
I have to draw an extra sprite sheet with the depth map so yes, every time the sprite changes. The good thing is that I haven't used that much AA or dithering and the sprites are basically depth-colored already except for the helmet that needs to be dome-rendered.



I have no idea why you can't see my images. That's a bummer. If someone knows, please let me know.

Offline Opacus

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 971
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Entangled
    • View Profile
    • www.jimjansen.net

Re: [WIP] Arcade Academy

Reply #62 on: October 28, 2007, 08:56:37 pm
I can see all the images fine really.

Offline infinity+1

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 166
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • the real deal
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] Arcade Academy

Reply #63 on: October 29, 2007, 05:02:46 am
can someone give me an in-depth explanation of what robotacon is doing, exactly?
i for one find it incredibly attractive, despite it maybe not being strictly pixel art.
or is this one of those things i have to be a programmer to realize and replicate?

Offline robotacon

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 222
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • robotacon
    • View Profile
    • It Got Dark

Re: [WIP] Arcade Academy

Reply #64 on: October 29, 2007, 08:04:26 am
can someone give me an in-depth explanation of what robotacon is doing, exactly?
i for one find it incredibly attractive, despite it maybe not being strictly pixel art.
or is this one of those things i have to be a programmer to realize and replicate?

I hope you guys feel that this is the right forum to post about what I'm doing. Perhaps it's not traditional pixel art but alot of what applies to pixel art still applies. The pillowshading on the helmet (in the depth map) that makes the helmet look flat is one thing that I've noticed that I have to change. If the sprites don't carry themselves in 2D space they won't transfer to 3D space. The sprite sheets and the depth maps are also all pixeled by hand and the only aspect of the art work that I'm changing are the highlights. My focus is maintaining a pixel art look so that any screenshot would look it was pixelled all my hand.

I'll try and expain what happends quickly since I'd rather talk about the pixel art aspects of this and not make this into a discussion about programming (Because you need to be a programmer to reproduce this). The gray scale depth map is read into memory using a custom pipline that turns it into a normal map. That map is rendered so that every pixel is colored according to what angle the pixel is facing in 3D space. I've then got a pixel shader that adds light to the original spritesheet according to this information by taking the dot product between the normal map and the angle of the light that I update inbetween each frame. That would give the results I had at 12 October. This is then enhanced by adding another filter in the pixel shader that calculates the distances in color space between the highlighted pixel and each of the 16 colors I've selected to use (I've got a slightly modified Arne-palette) so that I remain the integrety of that palette.

All you need to know can be found in this tutorial for XNA developers.

For what it's worth I'll try and focus on posting more pixel art and less techincal stuff in the future.

Offline sharprm

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 660
  • Karma: +0/-3
  • INTP/INTJ
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] Arcade Academy

Reply #65 on: October 29, 2007, 10:01:43 am
I think that you should have the white dot on the helmet move according to the light source. You should also remove how some of
the outline for helmet is white and some is grey. That would make the lighting effect better i think.

My only crit with anims is how shading on helmet oultine changes when he hangs onto ledge, so i you don't remove then make it
consistent (ie grey suggests light from right for that frame).

Will you have shadows for your game also?

Modern artists are told that they must create something totally original-or risk being called "derivative".They've been indoctrinated with the concept that bad=good.The effect is always the same: Meaningless primitivism
http://www.artrenewal.org/articles/Philosophy/phi

Offline baccaman21

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 549
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • It's critique, don't take it personally.
    • View Profile
    • Linked In

Re: [WIP] Arcade Academy

Reply #66 on: October 29, 2007, 11:14:03 am
RE: the helmet and the specular hilight on it (that doesn't move)

What an excellent use of old skool and new skool tech. Height maps on sprites what idea...
Here's what I think regarding the helmet.

People are expressing a dissatisfaction of the white hilight on the glass - which looks weird when you've got this light source moving around and picking up the colors on the rest of the character.

You've already picked up that the height map on the helmet isn't quite right, (not round enough - at the moment it's profile is a point [I'm assuming you know what you need to do to rectify this?])

If you're using a pixel shader then it stands to reason that it's entirely possible to incorporate a specular map? I'm not sure how it could work with 2D sprites but my experience on 360 and material mapping indicates that technically it can work.

But first things first, i'd remove the hilight off the helmets. And you may need to remove the white pixel line that indicates the helmet's edge as I think this could interfere with the effect?
Also, to add an extra layer of complexity to this, you may be able to incoprate an alpha mask overlay on the sprites... if so, then perhaps this layer could be your helmet?

It's a lot of effort though... but you'd get a cracking effect at the end... especially if you're thinking of having gun flares and explosions being light sources...

This is Looking great... is the intention to publish it on XBLA?





Buy the book - The Animator's Survival Kit by Richard Williams

www.burnzombieburn.com

Offline robotacon

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 222
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • robotacon
    • View Profile
    • It Got Dark

Re: [WIP] Arcade Academy

Reply #67 on: October 29, 2007, 01:10:07 pm
I think that you should have the white dot on the helmet move according to the light source. You should also remove how some of
the outline for helmet is white and some is grey. That would make the lighting effect better i think.

My only crit with anims is how shading on helmet oultine changes when he hangs onto ledge, so i you don't remove then make it
consistent (ie grey suggests light from right for that frame).

Will you have shadows for your game also?

I've removed the white specular on the helmet and fixed the outline of the helmet while on the ledge.

I HAVE had thoughts about real shadows too but I'm not sure how that works. I'll look into it.

If you're using a pixel shader then it stands to reason that it's entirely possible to incorporate a specular map? I'm not sure how it could work with 2D sprites but my experience on 360 and material mapping indicates that technically it can work.

But first things first, i'd remove the hilight off the helmets. And you may need to remove the white pixel line that indicates the helmet's edge as I think this could interfere with the effect?
Also, to add an extra layer of complexity to this, you may be able to incoprate an alpha mask overlay on the sprites... if so, then perhaps this layer could be your helmet?

It's a lot of effort though... but you'd get a cracking effect at the end... especially if you're thinking of having gun flares and explosions being light sources...

This is Looking great... is the intention to publish it on XBLA?

I had this idea of a material-map which I'm guessing is what you (and the rest of the world) calls a specular map. If it stores information about how reflective a material is then that's what I'm going for. I'll investigate.

I can't see why I couldn't add an alpha mask. Are you saying that I should add a glass like effect for the helmet that is partially see-through?

X-Boox Live Arcade? Hm... no such plans...
« Last Edit: October 29, 2007, 01:12:53 pm by robotacon »

Offline infinity+1

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 166
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • the real deal
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] Arcade Academy

Reply #68 on: October 29, 2007, 02:12:28 pm
thanks for the response. i figured this was going to be one of those thingst that are out of my league, but i'm glad i know more about it.

Offline baccaman21

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 549
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • It's critique, don't take it personally.
    • View Profile
    • Linked In

Re: [WIP] Arcade Academy

Reply #69 on: October 29, 2007, 03:00:47 pm
I had this idea of a material-map which I'm guessing is what you (and the rest of the world) calls a specular map. If it stores information about how reflective a material is then that's what I'm going for. I'll investigate.
That's precisely what the specular map is yes...

To clarify - A 'material' is collection of maps that group together to form an effect, be it, rough stone, or shiny mirror, or scratchy vinyl... and so on... so this case it may have a specular map, height map and alpha map.

I can't see why I couldn't add an alpha mask. Are you saying that I should add a glass like effect for the helmet that is partially see-through?

Absolutley. With the specular map (if you get the contour of the helmet right) and the alpha applied it should look really nice.

Buy the book - The Animator's Survival Kit by Richard Williams

www.burnzombieburn.com

Offline Jad

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1048
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] Arcade Academy

Reply #70 on: October 29, 2007, 03:41:48 pm
This is so fucked up in the greatest way imaginable.

I've gone around thinking about this kind of normal-mapped 2d-sprites and since I'm not a programmer at all, I've just been thinking about general solutions and here you have gone CREATING IT OH MY GOD.

MY DREAMS HAVE LITERALLY COME TRUE!!!

:] That is to say, i love this. <3

EDIT: Since the DS has a 3d-rendering mode (which works perfectly for rendering on just a 2d plane as well), would this work on the DS? I wonder :]~

EDIT2: And I guess you can apply this to background elements as well?

Delicious :3~
« Last Edit: October 29, 2007, 06:22:34 pm by Jad »
' _ '

Offline baccaman21

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 549
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • It's critique, don't take it personally.
    • View Profile
    • Linked In

Re: [WIP] Arcade Academy

Reply #71 on: October 29, 2007, 06:05:00 pm
In theory there's no reason why the DS couldn't do it, but it's not built into it's SDK so unless someone was to write a VERY efficient piece of code then maybe it could... but I doubt it would have a practicle application.

Material mapping techniques use a lot of graphical information to get a result not to mention the calculating processing power required to output them... so there's two issues there, 1 - graphic memory, 2. - computational power...

There's more to 3d than 'just' polygons and texture maps... which is why these new fangled 'next gen' consoles are so bloomin' impressive - the shear amount of processing power under the hood is phenomenal... and all the new rendering methods that push the visual envelope beyond anything we've seen before... Especially for an old fogey like me...

I hate 3d, but respect it all the same for it's ability to acheive what it can these days... and I'm so pleased that these new methods are being applied laterally to the old skool techniques...

Hat's off to Robotacon - you're doing us proud. :D
Buy the book - The Animator's Survival Kit by Richard Williams

www.burnzombieburn.com

Offline Jad

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1048
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] Arcade Academy

Reply #72 on: October 29, 2007, 06:26:58 pm
Ah, dangit :D

This version of normal mapping looks so simple so it felt like the DS would be able to handle it.

But then, I guess this is a quite powerful technique that is color-reduced to fit inside made-up restrictions.

Oh well.

In theory there's no reason why the DS couldn't do it, but it's not built into it's SDK so unless someone was to write a VERY efficient piece of code then maybe it could... but I doubt it would have a practicle application.

VERY efficient piece of code...

DEMO MAKERS, LOOK HITHER :]
' _ '

Offline Myran

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://www.myran.com/

Re: [WIP] Arcade Academy

Reply #73 on: October 29, 2007, 10:07:28 pm
The DS does not support pixel shaders which means the same technique could not be used. It might be possible to precompute it (although only with one light source), but even that could be a problem if you want to do it on all the graphics and not just the main character, with only 512 kb of video ram it would be tough.

Offline baccaman21

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 549
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • It's critique, don't take it personally.
    • View Profile
    • Linked In

Re: [WIP] Arcade Academy

Reply #74 on: October 29, 2007, 10:31:14 pm
The DS does not support pixel shaders which means the same technique could not be used. It might be possible to precompute it (although only with one light source), but even that could be a problem if you want to do it on all the graphics and not just the main character, with only 512 kb of video ram it would be tough.

huh...?  ???

didn't I just say that?
Buy the book - The Animator's Survival Kit by Richard Williams

www.burnzombieburn.com

Offline robotacon

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 222
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • robotacon
    • View Profile
    • It Got Dark

Re: [WIP] Arcade Academy

Reply #75 on: November 02, 2007, 08:20:26 pm
EDIT 3:
Removed the normal maps posted because they are all wrong as WhiteNoise pointed out. I'm taking the bump mapping discussion to TIGS Forum and will only post pixel art for critiquing from here on.

EDIT 4:
Actually my normal maps wasn't wrong. There are several ways of creating normal maps and I'm using the technique Valve uses among others. My biggest problem is that I'm creating the normal maps from height/bump maps and that there is too much information lost when approximating the surface normal. But as I said I'm moving this technical discussion to TIGS.

EDIT 5:
Ok,  WhiteNoise was right. The normal maps I posted were completely wrong. I feel really bad. Interesting enough they were fine internally, I just couldn't export them properly.

----

Here's the result of my latest bumpmapping experiment and it's obvious right now that the code I've got that translates depth maps to a normal maps is too crude.
This is perhaps most noticeable when looking at the blocks where you can see that there are stray pixels and the same is true for the characters.



If I'm going to do this I'll need full control so I'll have to pixel the normal maps by hand, or at least edit the normal maps.

ps. The guard was inspired by Camdogs henchmen.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2007, 03:02:36 pm by robotacon »

Offline WhiteNoise

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] Arcade Academy

Reply #76 on: November 02, 2007, 10:53:53 pm
That normalmap is not only crude, it's also completely wrong in terms of the sRGB channels relating to binormal/tangent space.
A normal vector facing towards you should be RGB-128,128,255 (XYZ-tangent space 0,0,1), not the dark blue colour you've got now

It should look something like this:



The original pixel art looks pretty sweet, and i only replied to this thread to try and help you out with the normalmaps - i'd rather not turn this into a pixelshader thread (like you said yourself)
« Last Edit: November 02, 2007, 10:57:43 pm by WhiteNoise »

Offline Darien

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 434
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • ...nine...ten...draw!
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] Arcade Academy

Reply #77 on: November 03, 2007, 01:49:59 pm
bumpmapping aside, I think this has loads of charm.  I love the animations, and I'm really looking forward to this.

The bumpmapping looks great though... I wonder... something like that would be graet for a horror game

Offline eobet

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 52
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • eobet disajn

Re: [WIP] space-boy (anim + tiles)

Reply #78 on: November 03, 2007, 02:54:43 pm
I've tried to improve on the ledge crawl.


This animation rubs me the wrong way, unfortunately. It has the same feeling as bad old 16-bit platformers, and I'll tell you why:

1) The action stops dead for a millisecond (when he catches the ledge, everything freezes or he gets stuck to it).
2) There is no elasticity (all of the action happens at roughly the same, close to linear speed).

The easy way I would fix this would be to simply make his feet quickly bounce out and in a pixel during the dead frames when he catches the ledge. I think just that would help to make it so much more alive (also think of all the elasticity the old Super Mario Games had, which not many other platformers were able to mimic).

PS. Love the idea btw (reminds me of Ramrod, somehow, which sadly never was released), and hope to see an OS X version too?

Offline DavidCarney

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 15
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] space-boy (anim + tiles)

Reply #79 on: November 03, 2007, 03:14:10 pm
1) The action stops dead for a millisecond (when he catches the ledge, everything freezes or he gets stuck to it).
This might be because it is waiting for input from the gamer on whether to hang, drop or climb?  Even if this is so, an idle hanging animation might be necessary.

Offline Bouzolf

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 36
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • I'm a Quebecer, i like pink and I'm 14 years old.
    • View Profile
    • My PJ Galery

Re: [WIP] Arcade Academy

Reply #80 on: November 03, 2007, 05:11:06 pm
THIS GAME IS GONNA BE AWSOME! Please make a Mac version, please.

What bugs me in the ledge crawl is that, to me, he sould be steping on the wall with his foot to get higher, because that's why he woulddo in real life. But maybe that,s not what your aming for...


My English is poor, sorry about that..

Offline robotacon

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 222
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • robotacon
    • View Profile
    • It Got Dark

Re: [WIP] Arcade Academy

Reply #81 on: November 03, 2007, 10:47:12 pm
Thanks for the kind words.

I'll have another look at the ledge-crawl.
The pause in the crawl is for player input as suggested by Dave.

Here is one of the professors...


I've started drawing what the school is going to look like inside on paper
but I'm not that good on drawing interesting backgrounds
so I'm having problems transferring the sketches to pixel art.

I've also started to work on the mini games (again on paper).
I hope I can show some mock-ups soon  ::)

Offline eobet

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 52
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • eobet disajn

Re: [WIP] Arcade Academy

Reply #82 on: November 04, 2007, 06:50:55 pm
I'll have another look at the ledge-crawl.
The pause in the crawl is for player input as suggested by Dave.

That's cool, then. I'd still suggest finishing the first part of the animation off with a bounce of his feet, just so he doesn't look stuck/glued to the wall.

Offline robotacon

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 222
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • robotacon
    • View Profile
    • It Got Dark

Re: [WIP] Arcade Academy

Reply #83 on: November 22, 2007, 10:00:57 pm
I've been too busy trying out different pixel shading techniques lately so I've been away from real pixel art for too long.
To make up for this I'm bringing the soldiers running cycle.



I tried to keep it similar to the younger characters run-cycle but with a more defined step. Perhaps I over did it?
As with the other run-cycles frame 2 and 8 is used as the jump animation.

I wish the arms weren't so glued to the gun but I don't know to loosen the grip without it looking like he's holding a piece of rubber.

EDIT: Also grandpa got bigger to better fit the grown-ups scale.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2007, 10:36:44 pm by robotacon »

Offline Jad

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1048
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] Arcade Academy

Reply #84 on: November 22, 2007, 10:44:42 pm
This is totally a low-gravity power walk and not a run at the moment. You know, when you run, you thrust yourself from the ground in a fast motion, actually bringing you into the air in a movement where neither of your feet touches the ground. There's a lot of force needed for such a move.

You need more air frames and a more defined thrust, I think. :O
' _ '

Offline brigadon

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 17
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] Arcade Academy

Reply #85 on: November 22, 2007, 11:17:54 pm
I know this is not exactly a critique of the graphics themselves, but I think this is an absolutely lovely idea.
Have you considered changing the character's outfits for each mini-game? Not something from an actual game (unless you have the licenses) but something in specific recognizeable styles of video game heroes, with a matching professor giving the course?

Like...say...a sonic-style minigame, the protagonist dresses up as an animal of some kind. or a metroid-style mini, with a professor dressed in power armor with a gun-arm?

Offline Souly

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 957
  • Karma: +0/-1
  • Killer of threads.
    • View Profile
    • Punkys Portfolio

Re: [WIP] Arcade Academy

Reply #86 on: November 23, 2007, 03:53:19 am
YOURS-MINE
All I did was remove frame 6 and frame 11.
Yours was seeming a tad slow.

Offline robotacon

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 222
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • robotacon
    • View Profile
    • It Got Dark

Re: [WIP] Arcade Academy

Reply #87 on: November 23, 2007, 09:43:58 am
You're right Jad, it looks weak.
Soulys edit looks better but I need 12 frames and a constant "foot moving along the floor"-speed of 3 pixels.
If all you did was remove frames 6 and 11 you managed to remove a wobbly elbow which looks alot better.
I'll fix!

And yes Brigadon, the characters might look different in the mini-games piloting space-ships and stuff like that.
I'm trying to stay away from all references to other games or real world people, places or events.
There are too many games with pop-cultural references, I want something that is a tribute to the idea of arcade games without being too obvious.
I haven't got it all ironed out yet but that was the idea.

Offline Souly

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 957
  • Karma: +0/-1
  • Killer of threads.
    • View Profile
    • Punkys Portfolio

Re: [WIP] Arcade Academy

Reply #88 on: November 24, 2007, 02:41:35 am
You're right Jad, it looks weak.
Soulys edit looks better but I need 12 frames and a constant "foot moving along the floor"-speed of 3 pixels.
If all you did was remove frames 6 and 11 you managed to remove a wobbly elbow which looks alot better.
I'll fix!
The legs were more what I was trying to change.
But you're right the elbow does seem better without the two extra frames.

Offline DavidCarney

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 15
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] Arcade Academy

Reply #89 on: November 26, 2007, 04:56:39 pm
I see this alot in running animations, but don't you generally run on your toes?  I rarely see run animations like that.

Offline Darien

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 434
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • ...nine...ten...draw!
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] Arcade Academy

Reply #90 on: November 26, 2007, 04:59:05 pm
Only if you're sprinting

I do think there is too much time with the feet on the ground and not enough hang time

Offline Jad

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1048
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] Arcade Academy

Reply #91 on: November 26, 2007, 05:24:35 pm
I see this alot in running animations, but don't you generally run on your toes?  I rarely see run animations like that.

To be really sure, you can always strap on a pair of shoes and run about for a while, you know (:
' _ '

Offline baccaman21

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 549
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • It's critique, don't take it personally.
    • View Profile
    • Linked In

Re: [WIP] Arcade Academy

Reply #92 on: November 28, 2007, 11:26:45 am
I see this alot in running animations, but don't you generally run on your toes?  I rarely see run animations like that.

huh? a foot is designed to be rolled from heel to toe... if you run on your toes you've got something seriously wrong with your feet dude!
Buy the book - The Animator's Survival Kit by Richard Williams

www.burnzombieburn.com

Offline DavidCarney

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 15
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] Arcade Academy

Reply #93 on: November 28, 2007, 12:08:19 pm
I guess I'm thinking more of a sprint then.  I had narrow vision on the "run" term, still many run animation appear more as a trot then.  Do these guys ever buckle down and really run?

Offline Jad

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1048
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] Arcade Academy

Reply #94 on: November 28, 2007, 03:13:33 pm
Well, sprints might go from mid-foot to toe, but rarely only toes, I'd call that a 'toe-run' ;D

Runs that are a series of thrusts rather than a series of rolls, well, they mainly appear in anime, I guess O:>
' _ '

Offline AdamAtomic

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1188
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • natural born medic
    • View Profile
    • Adam Atomic

Re: [WIP] Arcade Academy

Reply #95 on: November 28, 2007, 11:50:17 pm
sprinting is toes + balls of your feet only if you're full out, its the same movement as regular running, its just the heel hit slows you down to much, so you extend your foot a bit and just let the balls of your foot hit.  That's why proper sprinting spikes don't have heels!

Offline robotacon

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 222
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • robotacon
    • View Profile
    • It Got Dark

Re: [WIP] Arcade Academy

Reply #96 on: December 18, 2007, 04:02:32 pm
Updates:
---> It's not much but I'm happy with this one now. The soldier below will have a much heavier/slower ledge-heave animation so I'll try and work in the feedback I've gotten into that one giving the characters a distinct feel.

---> Bumped up the speed and now the soles of the shoes bend resulting in smoother "heel->foot->toe" run. The head, arms and knees has also been tweaked so that they don't move around randomly. It feels a little boring (lots of cut and pasting) but at this scale I haven't been able to tilt anything with great success. Kept the frame count of 12.

/ Robo

PSS. Three weeks without proper Internet. Sitting on a phone modem that is terrible slow right now  :'(

EDIT: as a reference here is soulys edit and my latest side by side.

soulys -> <- mine
« Last Edit: May 13, 2009, 09:47:28 pm by robotacon »