AuthorTopic: Street Figther HD Remix  (Read 63856 times)

Offline Helm

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #90 on: August 29, 2007, 01:50:10 am
Sure, I don't mind, and thanks for the critique.

I like my grin, personally. Your version he just looks uneasy or undecided. There's malevolence in the grin in the original and I tried to retain that. And I think the age and likeness was alright if you look at the source image. A lot of people might have this

in mind when they think Sagat but I certainly don't. Can't please them all, at least I made an aesthetic call of some sort.

Offline Scuba Steve

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #91 on: August 29, 2007, 04:30:57 am
If you're going to be so high strung and attack people when you don't like what they tell you, you won't last long here as an active member.

I've been around for over 5 years :P  And whether you intended it or not... I was pretty insulted by your comment.  Your reply is comforting that you didn't mean it... but I think you can see why I would be upset.  I don't even know why I posted here... I don't even like fighting games :P
Glub Glub!

Offline huZba

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #92 on: August 29, 2007, 05:44:58 am
Yesss.. that's what i'm thinking when i'm thinking of sagat, or at least something in that direction. He's supposed to be 3 meters tall and has a huge jaw. Capcom's own artists have made far better renditions though. When i play a fighting game i don't look for ordinary, i look for super powers and the extraordinary. I'm sure majority of the target group share my view. I see no reason to depart from the style when he's been like that for a long time in games and the comics. Fans of the comic would go WTF is this guy, doesn't look like sagat at all.

You know this without a doubt, but when making a character such as this, it would be far better to make what most people have in mind rather than what's your personal preference.

Still i think everyone agrees there would be a great benefit from proper anatomy, stylized or not.

Offline Helm

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #93 on: August 29, 2007, 12:59:58 pm
The SFII sagat isn't this deformed monster with a huge jaw. That all happened later. So if you're remaking the graphics, either you remake everything to fit the current Capcom art style, or you keep it relatively close to the original. The artist is doing half-this, half-that. I don't know how to make it any more plain than this, it's what I've been saying all along. Aesthetic consistency. The fact that they have to keep the bounding boxes of the original sprites would seem to suggest them to to stick closer to the originals than these man-beast designs the more recent SF games go for. What with also that this is a celebrated game that a lot of gamers love dearly and there should be some respect paid to the original aesthetics..

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I've been around for over 5 years

You've been registered on the forums for 5 years sure. You've not been a very regular poster, and with a bit of a strange relationship to the forum, what with the 'I am posting drunk, lol' period at one point and such. If you want to last around here as an active user, don't tell people to fuck off when you feel insulted. Am I clear enough?

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And whether you intended it or not... I was pretty insulted by your comment.

Ask for clarifications, prefferably in private, before you reach for the internet drama button.

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Your reply is comforting that you didn't mean it... but I think you can see why I would be upset.  I don't even know why I posted here... I don't even like fighting games

You posted here because you wanted to push my buttons, obviously.

Offline ndchristie

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #94 on: September 02, 2007, 10:54:30 pm
People say things on the internet, people take offense, people give it back double, and it gets messy.  Most of us have had our "shoot first, question later" moments/periods, if not here than in another place.  It doesn't make anyone bad, nor does it make anyone happy.
Most of us have known the name scuba steve for a long time now so, even without background knowledge, it's reasonable to assume that you have been drawing for some time. 

The fact of the matter is that this is a critique board and everyone comes here with that in mind;  the vaguest pretense of a segue can lead into an evaluative process.  You actually do have a lot of trouble with anatomy for a person who has been drawing for any length of time, and it cannot be reiterated enough times that this is a thing for you to study long and hard.

As far as helm is concerned, I hardly speak for him, but it is his job as a moderator to attempt to address every concern (be they artistic concerns or administrative ones) while at the same time keeping the piece, and that is damnably difficult!  He and I have had our arguments (knock on wood), and I can attest to the fact that it can be very easy to mistake concern for insults, opinions for edicts, and the like.







As far as the artwork is concerned, this guy really is all over the place.  What's a shame is the idea that anyone who so much as passes a high-quality illustration program can do better in terms of style, consistency, and general quality, probably faster too.

It's not just capcom too, everyone is hiring shitty artists in a world full of talented gems and the rationale is mind-boggling at it's best.  I'm sure most of you have seen what Marvel thinks is good these days:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/19/NWXM0043_cov.jpg
A mistake is a mistake.
The same mistake twice is a bad habit.
The same mistake three or more times is a motif.

Offline Jigsaw

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #95 on: October 01, 2007, 11:56:13 am
*bump*

The official blog has been updated with two new sprites, of Cammy and Vega (Bison).

I think Cammy looks very decent compared to some of the earlier sprites shown, but the sprite is certainly not without its faults. Her face kind of bugs me, her knees look like kneepits, and the whole hips/abs area is a complete mess. Her arms look kind of correct though, so I guess that's a start! I think Dictator looks good too. The lighting is perhaps a little dubious but given the nature of the sprite I have really no problems forgiving it. It is interesting to note that he seems to look alot stockier than he did in SF2 though - a change I don't particularly agree with, but I guess you can't really tell how drastic a change it will be until we've seen more sprites.


Generally I am very torn about this project. Super Street Fighter II Turbo is probably my favourite game of all time, for many reasons. So while I am very happy that I will get a version to download for my PS3 and/or 360, it does pain me terribly that it - so far - looks so bad. It's just plain depressing to see this "professional" art for a 2007 (2008?) game look so much worse than sprites that were created in 1991, even if you completely disregard the difference in resolution (though of course that does make it all the more embarrassing). In my eyes, the art fails on many levels; yes the anatomy is terrible, the tracing is done poorly, they are adding faults that weren't there originally - but on top of all that I'm quite unhappy with most sprites stylistically. I do enjoy UDON's comic and their art, but basing a game on it feels kind of like shoehorning fanart into a game in place of actual official art. The situation is certainly not improved by the fact that we essentially have second-rate artists poorly emulating UDON's style (except for when they haphazardly insert parts traced from Cacpom art) instead of actual UDON art. For what it's worth I think the portraits, ending pictures and the like that have been showed all look vastly superior to the ingame graphics.

I'm not saying the characters need to look exactly like they did in SF2, or SF3, Alpha or any other game for that matter. I just feel that these sprites are sorely lacking a distinct Capcom sensibility, and because of that the visuals of the game suffer greatly. I can't help but feel that if Akiman, Bengus, Edayan or Nishimura Kinu was in charge of the design, this game would be my dream come true. But as it stands it's a game I'm looking forward to play although I'm almost afraid to look at it.


Helm: That Sagat looks beautiful! :y::) Needless to say that doesn't necessarily scream Capcom either, but that doesn't change the fact that it is by far the best "HD SF2" sprite I've seen. The amount of detail puts the official sprites to shame (though to be fair I guess it makes sense to keep detail down for animating's sake), and I'm impressed that you managed to stick so close to SF2 proportions and anatomy yet make it look so good! One thing I feel compelled to mention though - you seem to have missed the fact that CPS games are drawn in a non-4:3 resolution (384x224 to be exact) and thus should not be scaled proportionally when drawn for a 4:3 display. Scale the width to 78% and it's closer to what it would actually look like in the game.

Offline Helm

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #96 on: October 01, 2007, 12:26:27 pm
Yeah the scaling issue has been brought to my attention a few times since I did that experiment. I guess I could compress it and rework if it looks odd anywhere, but that would only serve to make me want to finish it, and I don't see any point there!

About detail and animation, no matter how much detail is or is not there, in such huge sprites with so few in-betweens, it'll look choppy as hell anyway. Like a monty python animation, as I've said before. So why not go ahead and make the stationary sprites detailed and interesting to look at?

Offline Jigsaw

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #97 on: October 01, 2007, 12:42:54 pm
Yeah I forgot to mention it, but I was assuming had no interest in touching the sprite further but I just wanted to mention it, in case you weren't aware. I guess you could call it a pet peeve of mine when people don't research the original sprites (when making more serious attempts at recreating them at least). It's sort of the same kind of sloppy mistake the official artists keep making (though of course far more forgivable considering the people who make these aren't being paid!). This isn't a knock towards your sprite though which as mentioned I think looks great.

Regarding the detail, I am definitely with you. What I meant is that in the interest in preserving their own sanity (as opposed to creating the best possible visuals) I can understand why the artist might choose to keep some of the detail low.

Offline Helm

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #98 on: October 01, 2007, 12:51:50 pm
I think the time it takes to pillowshade those clothes like that is pretty much as much time as it would take to shade more naturally and sensibly and put some detail on there as well. It's not a matter of time spent, it's a matter of ability to apply a functional methodology to how you make your digital art. Their stuff looks really like the way someone who has no foundational studies in art would work. Someone you'd buy off of deviant art, who is self-taught and is hesitant to refine his method further because 'if it works, why change it'.

Offline Jigsaw

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #99 on: October 01, 2007, 01:59:27 pm
Oh, I agree. By "lack of detail" I wasn't referring to the pillowshading but rather to how your lineart (and presumably final sprite had it come into existence) has a lot more detail in it than their sprites do. And for the record, I am not in any way defending the way they are making their sprites, I just made a general note of the fact that a lack of detail (or a conscious simplicity, if you will) can have its advantages.