AuthorTopic: Street Figther HD Remix  (Read 49301 times)

Offline jmgandalf

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 14
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Street Figther HD Remix

on: June 18, 2007, 09:20:50 pm
I don't know if you already see this, but here you go

http://blogs.capcomusa.com/blogs/digital.php/2007/06/14/how_they_do_it_sf_hd_remix

They're using photoshop all the way!! :huh:

Discuss

Offline AlexHW

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1037
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • AlexHW

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #1 on: June 19, 2007, 12:47:32 am
Looks great in my opinion.  :y:
I'm not sure about using the pixel version as a base though because you'll just get revamped graphics yet all the animations will be the same basically. Maybe they'll add more frames?
if they dont add any more frames im unsure how smooth it'll look at this scale.
also, there's alot of perspective/depth issues.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2007, 12:50:19 am by Alex Hanson-White »

Offline .TakaM

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1178
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
    • Fetch Quest

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #2 on: June 19, 2007, 01:07:04 am
man, looks a lot better than what they showed a month or two ago.

and well, I'm not really interested unless it plays like third strike, but has all the original street fighter cast
« Last Edit: June 19, 2007, 01:09:44 am by .TakaM »
Life without knowledge is death in disguise

Offline Conzeit

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1448
  • Karma: +3/-0
  • Camus
    • conzeit
    • View Profile
    • CONZEIT

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #3 on: June 19, 2007, 02:23:56 am
I agree with Kon....the keyframes in the original streetfighter were pretty bad...

thanks for the heads up! I'll look into their method =)

Offline ptoing

  • Moderator
  • 0101
  • *
  • Posts: 3063
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • variegated quadrangle arranger
    • the_ptoing
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/2191.htm
    • View Profile
    • Perpetually inactive website

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #4 on: June 19, 2007, 03:07:19 am
Pretty poop keyframes + revamped gfx not made by animators but comic artists (wtf!) = i expect the worst.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Akira

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 334
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Heheheh
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #5 on: June 19, 2007, 09:00:45 am
Reading through posts on the capcom forum it seems like they aren't going to add any more frames (because that would mess up the original gameplay).
IDK, it's good that they aren't going too far with the remix but maybe they aren't going far enough...
thanks Dogmeat!

Offline big brother

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 341
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • herculeanpixel.com
    • View Profile
    • Portfolio Site

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #6 on: June 19, 2007, 03:43:43 pm
I can't understand why so many people rave about this. I think it looks awful, amateur-ish to the level of bad fanart.

It doesn't seem like the artists are dealing with the granularity issue. In order to make the original pixel sprites more readable, compromises were made. It's easiest to see these in the hands, fingers, and feet. When everything is scaled up, the ratios stay the same, since the artists are just drawing over it.

The second problem I have with the process -- the artists seem to be taking each frame individually rather than in context with the others. As a result, I suspect a lot of the detail they add will float around. They artists seem to be relying on a lot of extraneous lines rather than constructing solid forms like good animators would.

Then of course, there's the anatomy problems. I don't mind exaggeration or skewing, but this stuff looks plain inhuman, like mutant clones of the characters. It seems that these comic book artists learned anatomy from other comic books (paying particular attention to Rob Liefeld's work), while avoiding life drawing, figure studies, or even looking at real people.

This project would be better off if they just colorized the animated sketches for SF Alpha.

Offline ptoing

  • Moderator
  • 0101
  • *
  • Posts: 3063
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • variegated quadrangle arranger
    • the_ptoing
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/2191.htm
    • View Profile
    • Perpetually inactive website

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #7 on: June 19, 2007, 04:10:26 pm
My sentiment exactly.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Helm

  • Moderator
  • 0110
  • *
  • Posts: 5159
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Asides-Bsides

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #8 on: June 19, 2007, 04:25:26 pm
Yeah, very bad. Why the hell is Ryu leaning forward almost to the point of falling down in that nearest neighbour resize anyway?

The SFIII graphics are nothing to write home about in any case, so why use them as bases? ugh.

Offline shaheen

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 114
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Hardcore Lurker
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #9 on: June 19, 2007, 04:58:19 pm
I'm pretty sure that the nearest neighbor frame is part of his walking forward animation cycle. Which never was all that great, but that's why it looks so funky.

I think what annoys me the most are the obvious and, frankly, mindlessl screw ups, and not so much the weird muscle stylization. This Akuma sprite, for example:
Akuma

The mouth is completely unreadable in that one. At first, I thought that they had just forgotten to add the mouth/teeth showing, but it ends up his lips are making a "O" form. The shading on the mouth just above the chin is really off and adds sharp line creating depth (which ends up looking like a lip) to a place where there shouldn't be, confusing the viewer.

On this one, I can't even imagine why they screwed up the thumbs so badly:
Ken

I'm also confused as to why they're using so few colors for shading. It almost makes sense if you think that they're limiting themselves in order to use the old code, but then that point is made moot when you consider (among a few other things) that they'll be creating a bunch of new colors through auto AA. I'm also not a fan of the extremely angular lines that they're using. Bleh, overall.

Being a hardcore fan, I'll still probably buy this, but that's only if I end up having one of the systems that'll have it for download.

Offline .TakaM

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1178
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
    • Fetch Quest

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #10 on: June 19, 2007, 04:59:23 pm
Yeah, very bad. Why the hell is Ryu leaning forward almost to the point of falling down in that nearest neighbour resize anyway?

The SFIII graphics are nothing to write home about in any case, so why use them as bases? ugh.
mm, I think that one was grabbed out of a photo, where it wasn't exactly square on
Life without knowledge is death in disguise

Offline Helm

  • Moderator
  • 0110
  • *
  • Posts: 5159
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Asides-Bsides

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #11 on: June 19, 2007, 05:12:16 pm
No that's definately a mouth missing in the Akuma drawing.

And it seems like they're colorpicking colors off of the sprites? Genius.

Offline ptoing

  • Moderator
  • 0101
  • *
  • Posts: 3063
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • variegated quadrangle arranger
    • the_ptoing
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/2191.htm
    • View Profile
    • Perpetually inactive website

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #12 on: June 19, 2007, 05:15:33 pm
Some official dude somewhere wrote it's him going "o". Which I can kinda see when I look at it very hard, but how it's done is just bad. Probably would look better in animation, but still, blech.

Ken is a mutant with extra thumbjoints \o/
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline jmgandalf

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 14
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #13 on: June 19, 2007, 07:23:20 pm
That's what i'm talking about. They're making of SF a bigfat flash game, with poor animations and almost linear graphics  >:(

I would prefered they rendered HD images from the SF movie instead  :P

Offline Feron

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1123
  • Karma: +0/-1
  • Carpe Diem
    • View Profile
    • Pixelheart

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #14 on: June 19, 2007, 09:13:49 pm
http://blogs.capcomusa.com/blogs/digital.php/2007/06/15/p333#more333

i think Guile is the worst.  They have just done a shit job.  I am no anatomy expert - but im pretty sure theres some muscles there that don't exist.  Also in one of the frames his shirt is basically wrapping around his ribs into his body.  This whole project is just a joke.

Offline Helm

  • Moderator
  • 0110
  • *
  • Posts: 5159
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Asides-Bsides

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #15 on: June 20, 2007, 04:37:39 am
Someone should alert this artist guy how the musculature of the face goes when someone does an 'O mouth' because he's very very clueless. The guile art is very bad. Why is this person pillowshading?

Offline .TakaM

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1178
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
    • Fetch Quest

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #16 on: June 20, 2007, 05:05:58 am
I think the pillow shading is because since guile wasn't in third strike, they're using the sprites from one of the SFII games as the base....  :-X
sprite mixing, pillow shading, shoddy animation, bizarre anatomy...

well, atleast it won't technically have selout  :D?
Life without knowledge is death in disguise

Offline Ryumaru

  • Moderator
  • 0100
  • *
  • Posts: 1677
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • to be animated soonly
    • ChrisPariano
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #17 on: June 20, 2007, 05:37:20 am
good lord, that stuff is the most prime example of " professional" shit ive ever seen.

Offline Schu

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 89
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • The front is a lemon avenue flying straightly
    • View Profile
    • Eyegore-net

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #18 on: June 20, 2007, 06:01:46 am
I find it interesting to see what they're trying to do, and well I whole-heartedly encourage such a project, but I also think the execution is falling flat... Maybe they'll look better in motion, maybe they won't (especially if they're not adding frames to smooth out the movements). Some of the still images look like how I'd mess around with the vector tools in photoshop. :huh:

I'd rather just play that gorgeous Dreamcast one...

Offline Conzeit

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1448
  • Karma: +3/-0
  • Camus
    • conzeit
    • View Profile
    • CONZEIT

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #19 on: June 20, 2007, 06:49:03 am
I dont think the artists are absolute idiots

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/222/522406933_78f4d17560_o.jpg first one he posted was actually quite decent (pillowshading is still there, and it probably has a bazillion too many muscles but feh).
Imagine working at a comic company and suddenly be appointed to work on images with pre-done poses lighting and palletes, you just gotta feel a little disapoointed....I mean look at the distance between this and the Guile sprite, these people must be feeling like crap to do something like that :p. I think it might come out alright as a whole, but I cant understand why they'd chose to tie the artists to such a defunct shading style.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2007, 06:50:39 am by Conceit »

Offline huZba

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 409
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • MekaSkull
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/19396.htm
    • huzba
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #20 on: June 20, 2007, 09:05:08 am
From what i gathered, Udon crew made some keyframe for each sprite, then another studio called Studio XD continued to make the rest. The pictures posted here look similar to those in a comic called "Echo" which was pencilled by a guy called Long Vo. So even though Udon certainly has people that could do this right, it's this Long Vo person who contributes to this weird anatomy, pillowshading and so forth. All those features can also be found in his comic.

Offline LoTekK

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 215
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
    • LoTekK.com

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #21 on: June 20, 2007, 01:37:23 pm
It seems that these comic book artists learned anatomy from other comic books (paying particular attention to Rob Liefeld's work), while avoiding life drawing, figure studies, or even looking at real people.
Ha, Liefeld's name was the first thing to pop into my head when I saw those frames. This is looking pretty godawful. I don't care what they say, but Akuma definitely looks like he's missing his mouth (it took very close scrutiny to even begin to see the suggestion of an "O" mouth). They need to learn some anatomy. Really. Ouch.

Offline Skull

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 381
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Viva La Skull

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #22 on: June 20, 2007, 02:04:18 pm
I bloody love that UDON bunch.

Looking at my own hand.. I'd say that Ken fella has one long, and somewhat bendy thumb. :o

Offline Helm

  • Moderator
  • 0110
  • *
  • Posts: 5159
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Asides-Bsides

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #23 on: June 20, 2007, 02:21:13 pm
I wonder if that artist realizes he's not good enough to pull it off, and how he feels about the onslaught of fanboy abuse he's going to have dropped on him like a ten ton hammer once the game is out.

Offline ptoing

  • Moderator
  • 0101
  • *
  • Posts: 3063
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • variegated quadrangle arranger
    • the_ptoing
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/2191.htm
    • View Profile
    • Perpetually inactive website

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #24 on: June 20, 2007, 04:14:08 pm
Thing is that they are posting these big sprites (yes they are sprites technically) on the official forums and I have flown over it and did not see a single bad comment. Most average consumers are not as art-aware as artists, they don't see flaws, for them it looks awesome. Lot's of ZOMG WICKED STUFF kinda comments :S
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Helm

  • Moderator
  • 0110
  • *
  • Posts: 5159
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Asides-Bsides

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #25 on: June 20, 2007, 06:57:19 pm
hehe that dude was all 'LISTEN PEOPLE HE'S NOT MISSING A MOUTH' though so some criticism must be getting through.

Offline Feron

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1123
  • Karma: +0/-1
  • Carpe Diem
    • View Profile
    • Pixelheart

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #26 on: June 20, 2007, 07:01:29 pm
it often makes we wonder what goes through the heads of some of these game developers.  Ive hardly seen any of these graphics, im not a games expert, im not a proper artist / a very good one, and yet i can still see many flaws, and the main point that it just looks ugly and will not make good game graphics.

Street fighter (1 2 and 3) was never really anything to write home about, in my book, but this is just funny  :lol:

Offline Lee N

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 98
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #27 on: June 22, 2007, 09:56:26 pm
Pretty poop keyframes + revamped gfx not made by animators but comic artists (wtf!) = i expect the worst.

That's when stuff like this happens:



expect lots of CCP animation, it seems..  >:(


http://blogs.capcomusa.com/blogs/digital.php/2007/06/22/poor_chun_li

Offline ptoing

  • Moderator
  • 0101
  • *
  • Posts: 3063
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • variegated quadrangle arranger
    • the_ptoing
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/2191.htm
    • View Profile
    • Perpetually inactive website

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #28 on: June 22, 2007, 10:39:13 pm
Oh yes, because HD obviously means stuff has to look like bad flash animation.  :0#
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Zach

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 405
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Bear
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #29 on: June 23, 2007, 01:02:30 am
wow...

this is nasty
I thought the universe was done with flash...
EAT PUNAJI  BECAUSE IT'S GOOD AND TASTY

Offline shaheen

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 114
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Hardcore Lurker
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #30 on: June 23, 2007, 03:13:08 am
That animation would actually look really decent if they went and redrew every frame. Oh well. :/

Offline .TakaM

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1178
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
    • Fetch Quest

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #31 on: June 23, 2007, 05:04:36 am
just curious, but has anything like this been done before?
Life without knowledge is death in disguise

Offline shaheen

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 114
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Hardcore Lurker
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #32 on: June 23, 2007, 05:30:27 am
High definition 2D graphics, or high resolution remakes of older games?

If you mean the first, there's been at least one game that came out recently that I can name and that's Odin Sphere. A pretty nice looking game that, unfortunately, suffers from looking a bit too much like a Flash animation at a lot of points.

As far as the latter, I can think of two off the top of my head. There was The King of Fighters '94 Re-Bout which was basically a high resolution remake, but all they really did was trace over old, upscaled sprites to maybe a little larger than the Guilty Gear series' sprites with some new 3D backgrounds. The end result was mediocre as was to be expected from that one. There's currently also that remake of Ruff 'n' Tumble that seems to be using the same basic method that the artists for 94 Re-Bout used.

Offline Faceless

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 423
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #33 on: June 23, 2007, 05:43:28 am
It should be noted that this isn't a full scale game.
It's a game being released on Live Arcade, so you shouldn't be expecting a masterpiece.

Offline big brother

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 341
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • herculeanpixel.com
    • View Profile
    • Portfolio Site

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #34 on: June 25, 2007, 03:13:50 pm
Of course, but you still have to pay for it. Personally, I wouldn't buy something consciously knowing it's shitty quality. I'm not down with the whole "fanboy tax" concept.

Offline Feron

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1123
  • Karma: +0/-1
  • Carpe Diem
    • View Profile
    • Pixelheart

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #35 on: June 25, 2007, 10:53:22 pm
probably just buy it for the hell of it.  Yeah i know it will be shit, be its one of those things i'll do anyway.   :noob:

Offline Turbo

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 413
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • less than meets the eye
    • View Profile
    • Pixeljoint TurboAccount

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #36 on: June 26, 2007, 05:04:32 am
I think you guys are being harsh to the extreme (i sense some hatred for american comics there). The stuff doesn't look bad at all. Ok, invented muscle groups, odd shading in some points, weird anatomy. Go look at the originals (sf2) again and cringe at their crappiness (Blanka and Dhalsim pop to memory). It's not that bothersome. On the jumpiness due to shading style, it's a possibility, but you have to wait to see it in action. I'm thinking the inbetweeners will reduce that to a minimum.
On these I like the colors, the depth and the detail, and how they kept it close to the original.

That chun li animation sure sucks though :)

Offline Akira

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 334
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Heheheh
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #37 on: June 26, 2007, 05:12:50 am
I'm thinking the inbetweeners will reduce that to a minimum.
There are no inbetweeners, They are using the original frames.
And it is our duty as an art forum to point out flaws so that we may better ourselves as artists :P.
thanks Dogmeat!

Offline Faceless

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 423
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #38 on: June 26, 2007, 05:11:11 pm
I think the real question is; "Is that semen on Chun-Li's face, chest and in her hair?"

Offline Feron

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1123
  • Karma: +0/-1
  • Carpe Diem
    • View Profile
    • Pixelheart

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #39 on: June 26, 2007, 05:24:16 pm
I think the real question is; "Is that semen on Chun-Li's face, chest and in her hair?"

I hear Dhalsim is quite the player  ;)

Offline ndchristie

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 2426
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #40 on: June 26, 2007, 09:38:34 pm
I think the real question is; "Is that semen on Chun-Li's face, chest and in her hair?"

...more like hotspots.  can't say i'm a fan of stupid jokes....


...but i'm less a fan of stupid games.  not even following up on this i don't think, unless someone tells me it's awesome.
A mistake is a mistake.
The same mistake twice is a bad habit.
The same mistake three or more times is a motif.

Offline Faceless

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 423
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #41 on: June 26, 2007, 10:56:28 pm
It wasn't a stupid joke... it was a criticism, but I guess some people don't get sarcasm.

Offline dragonrc

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 218
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #42 on: June 26, 2007, 11:07:49 pm
It is supposed to be blood, I guess you'll see that when it will be colored

Offline Sherman Gill

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 995
  • Karma: +0/-1
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #43 on: June 27, 2007, 05:28:58 am
Actually, blood would be more... Liquidy, I think. You know, more round.
I believe it's mud.
Oh yes naked women are beautiful
But I like shrimps more haha ;)

Offline Conzeit

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1448
  • Karma: +3/-0
  • Camus
    • conzeit
    • View Profile
    • CONZEIT

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #44 on: June 27, 2007, 06:48:28 am
its blood, doesnt matter what you think says so in the capcom blog

Offline Lee N

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 98
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #45 on: June 30, 2007, 09:11:32 pm
Apparently the guy doing the sprites for this HD remake was busted tracing stuff..



Read more here:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6888190&postcount=412
« Last Edit: June 30, 2007, 09:17:24 pm by Lee N »

Offline shaheen

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 114
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Hardcore Lurker
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #46 on: June 30, 2007, 10:29:24 pm
Hm. I was curious as to why his head was so out of place compared to the older sprite. I was suspicious about Akuma, and sure enough, he was traced almost exactly:


The hair is exactly the same, and there's only some minor differences between the parts of the head that are the same.

Offline .TakaM

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1178
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
    • Fetch Quest

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #47 on: June 30, 2007, 10:39:11 pm
whoooo what a trainwreck...
though I kinda feel sorry for these guys, despite their shoddy and despicable efforts, they are showing a lot of their work and information to fans online, which I'd love to see more people doing
Life without knowledge is death in disguise

Offline LoTekK

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 215
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
    • LoTekK.com

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #48 on: July 01, 2007, 03:05:25 pm
Wow. What boggles my mind is not only that the artist traced old frames, but that he actually made them worse. :huh:

Offline Helm

  • Moderator
  • 0110
  • *
  • Posts: 5159
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Asides-Bsides

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #49 on: July 01, 2007, 03:10:48 pm
Who in their right mind would accuse them for tracing, when their job is to trace old art? Of course the concept material is fair game under these circumstances!

Offline Lee N

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 98
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #50 on: July 01, 2007, 04:02:30 pm
Who in their right mind would accuse them for tracing, when their job is to trace old art? Of course the concept material is fair game under these circumstances!
I would, when the outcome is shitty. If an artist doesn't trust his own skills enough and instead end up tracing someone elses lines that doesn't even fit - why should we trust that artist? It's not strange that the akuma mouth look weird when someone just traced a head from another image and just tried to redraw some of it.

Using the original sprite to get the overall pose down is fair game, but from there they should redraw the entire thing to make it work, tracing odd bits and pieces from different source simplys doesn't work.. and we all know it. Also, why not let Edayan do the art if Udon just end up tracing her stuff anyway?

Like someone at neogaf said:

Quote from: Fight for Freeform
I don't want to get into this debate...but my POV is that if  you're doing an HD remake, adhere to the same sprites used in the original.  To take different parts of art (even if it's official art) to stitch up a Frankenstein is a half assed way of doing HD sprites.

New pic of Ryu!



Don't worry guys, it's all officially sanctioned SF art, so it's all good. :)

Offline Helm

  • Moderator
  • 0110
  • *
  • Posts: 5159
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Asides-Bsides

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #51 on: July 01, 2007, 04:50:32 pm
yes I agree. Nobody should trust that artist because he's a shitty artist, period. It's not just the trace. He's shitty all-around.

Offline Alevice

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 38
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • DevArt gallery

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #52 on: July 01, 2007, 08:54:49 pm
Quote from: Fight for Freeform
New pic of Ryu!


I lol'd.

The only thing I appreciate, is that they have made all this public, despite the high risk on the reputation they have taken. I wish you could say the same of many other companies. And they seem to acknowledge the cirtism they have received and "will try" to work on that.

Offline Helm

  • Moderator
  • 0110
  • *
  • Posts: 5159
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Asides-Bsides

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #53 on: July 01, 2007, 10:12:59 pm


I was working on this then I grew bored because I'm not on salary to do it. Proof of concept though.

Offline AdamAtomic

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1188
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • natural born medic
    • View Profile
    • Adam Atomic

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #54 on: July 01, 2007, 10:20:36 pm
i suspect you would grow bored even if you were salaried :P

Offline Helm

  • Moderator
  • 0110
  • *
  • Posts: 5159
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Asides-Bsides

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #55 on: July 01, 2007, 10:26:03 pm
The only way to find out would be for somebody to pay me and tell me 'do this for 6 months until you've made every sprite'. If the money is good, I'll do it.

Offline Ryumaru

  • Moderator
  • 0100
  • *
  • Posts: 1677
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • to be animated soonly
    • ChrisPariano
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #56 on: July 02, 2007, 01:40:32 am
wow helm, fits the original sprite and is much better than what these other artists creating.

Offline .TakaM

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1178
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
    • Fetch Quest

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #57 on: July 02, 2007, 02:28:08 am
yes, much nicer.
I'd just be a bit worried how those little streaks of detail would look in the animations
Life without knowledge is death in disguise

Offline Ryumaru

  • Moderator
  • 0100
  • *
  • Posts: 1677
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • to be animated soonly
    • ChrisPariano
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #58 on: July 02, 2007, 02:48:49 am
those could be taken out to make the lineart simpler. what makes helms image so much better isnt the detail but how anatomically believable and solid it is while still holding faithful to the pixel image.
(imo)

Offline Froli

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 293
  • Karma: +1/-0
  • Dragon Highlord
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #59 on: July 02, 2007, 03:18:02 am
This probably be the reason why they can't add more frames...it's because there is no material to trace :blind:. Hahaha that's great helm, but be careful :P that might get traced too <joke>

Offline big brother

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 341
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • herculeanpixel.com
    • View Profile
    • Portfolio Site

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #60 on: July 02, 2007, 04:27:23 pm
One of my buddies made a version of Ken (done in Flash, so infinitely scalable).



Fewer extraneous details and much more solid construction than Udon's. I don't think he spent more than an hour on this.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2007, 04:29:08 pm by big brother »

Offline bengo

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 580
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • https://pixeljoint.com/p/5787.htm
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #61 on: July 02, 2007, 04:45:11 pm
One of my buddies made a version of Ken (done in Flash, so infinitely scalable).



Fewer extraneous details and much more solid construction than Udon's. I don't think he spent more than an hour on this.
Wait, why didn't they use flash? That makes so much more sense.

Offline AdamAtomic

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1188
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • natural born medic
    • View Profile
    • Adam Atomic

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #62 on: July 02, 2007, 07:05:57 pm
anatomy and shading are still weird on that one, but using flash makes WAAAY more sense than just painting these guys, mad props to your friend!  Here is my WIP take on Zangief:


.
.
Click to see a comparison sheet...

UPDATE:  Final linework is done:



I'm probably not gonna color him.  Cuz this was f*cking boring to make!!
« Last Edit: May 13, 2008, 05:31:55 pm by AdamAtomic »

Offline Ryumaru

  • Moderator
  • 0100
  • *
  • Posts: 1677
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • to be animated soonly
    • ChrisPariano
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #63 on: July 02, 2007, 10:16:33 pm
that ken image is fantastic and sexy, but how well does it fit with the original pixel image?

Offline Jad

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1048
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #64 on: July 07, 2007, 12:05:24 pm
anatomy and shading are still weird on that one, but using flash makes WAAAY more sense than just painting these guys, mad props to your friend!  Here is my WIP take on Zangief:


.
.
Click to see a comparison sheet...

UPDATE:  Final linework is done:



I'm probably not gonna color him.  Cuz this was f*cking boring to make!!

Big fucking eyes are creeping me out D:
' _ '

Offline ndchristie

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 2426
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #65 on: July 08, 2007, 08:31:35 pm
interesting idea doing ti like this.  helm, yours i think will make for interesting animation (should you animate it).

the tracing bit confuses me, since that is the point of this remaster, and the entire thing is done by capcom, so they probably will cite the source material (or snub the old employees, but why bother? it's the same company)


I guess some people don't get sarcasm.
lol...what's the difference between bad sarcasm and a stupid joke, besides terminology?
A mistake is a mistake.
The same mistake twice is a bad habit.
The same mistake three or more times is a motif.

Offline Helm

  • Moderator
  • 0110
  • *
  • Posts: 5159
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Asides-Bsides

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #66 on: July 09, 2007, 12:36:43 am
intention.



I won't animate it of course, I didn't even finish it.

Offline AdamAtomic

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1188
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • natural born medic
    • View Profile
    • Adam Atomic

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #67 on: July 09, 2007, 05:06:09 am
Well i think that's part of the debate or whatever, is its not being done by capcom.  Capcom outsourced it to Udon, and Udon in turn outsourced a bunch of it to some other comic book studio.  So yeah i mean legally its all under the capcom umbrella, but to me it feels were that these comic book guys are tracing capcom internal art?  i dunno, just seems odd.

Offline Jad

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1048
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #68 on: July 11, 2007, 11:53:58 pm
Well i think that's part of the debate or whatever, is its not being done by capcom.  Capcom outsourced it to Udon, and Udon in turn outsourced a bunch of it to some other comic book studio.  So yeah i mean legally its all under the capcom umbrella, but to me it feels were that these comic book guys are tracing capcom internal art?  i dunno, just seems odd.

It just shows lack of own artistic skill, I believe. It's so ugly using another head for t.hawk when he could've redone the original head smaller.

Only he couldn't, obviously, because he wasn't good enough.

But that'd be okay anyway, I guess? I'm not buying the end product in any case :)
' _ '

Offline Froli

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 293
  • Karma: +1/-0
  • Dragon Highlord
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #69 on: July 21, 2007, 04:40:17 am
Haha :lol: damage control

Interview with udon
http://www.ps3fanboy.com/2007/07/19/ps3-fanboy-interview-udon-comics-and-street-fighter/

It's important to look at all the different artwork of each character created by Capcom and understand what makes those characters so iconic. Fine details may change, but the main structure and forms that make each
Street Fighter character so recognizable stay the same. By using Edayan's powerful designs as a jumping off point and going from there, we're able to create a new and consistent look for the enhanced sprites.

:lol:
« Last Edit: July 21, 2007, 04:44:43 am by Froli »

Offline Scuba Steve

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 151
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Incredible Baron

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #70 on: August 27, 2007, 11:14:05 pm
Oh ffs, it looks fine.  They were asked to shoehorn new sprites into the PRECISE size and area of the old sprites... no room for anatomical corrections since the bounding boxes had to be identical for hit detection.  They have to use the original SFII animation cycles so they don't mess with gameplay and fluidity.  I would have prefered a more comic book look and feel, more black/white less colour... but come on, they look fine.  It's one thing to critique... but I sense far more baseless nitpicking and contempt towards the art for SFIIHD.
Glub Glub!

Offline shaheen

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 114
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Hardcore Lurker
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #71 on: August 28, 2007, 12:24:38 am
Actually, I find that their latest update makes it very easy to disagree: http://blogs.capcomusa.com/blogs/digital.php/2007/08/23/latest_sfhd_update_w_first_bg_art

The art isn't even up to the standards of the SF comics I've seen Udon come out with.

Offline .TakaM

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1178
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
    • Fetch Quest

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #72 on: August 28, 2007, 12:27:24 am
I think the worst thing is that people are both assuming and boasting that this is the "future" of 2D and the best it can ever be :(
« Last Edit: August 28, 2007, 12:31:31 am by .TakaM »
Life without knowledge is death in disguise

Offline Helm

  • Moderator
  • 0110
  • *
  • Posts: 5159
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Asides-Bsides

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #73 on: August 28, 2007, 12:22:08 pm
Oh ffs, it looks fine.  They were asked to shoehorn new sprites into the PRECISE size and area of the old sprites... no room for anatomical corrections since the bounding boxes had to be identical for hit detection.

I respectfully disagree. The original sprites weren't anatomical wonders, but the new ones are adding even more. If you don't see it, you probably need to sharpen your eye by doing more anatomy work, it will benefit your own art too.

Quote
It's one thing to critique... but I sense far more baseless nitpicking and contempt towards the art for SFIIHD.

I'd agree... if it were baseless.

Offline ptoing

  • Moderator
  • 0101
  • *
  • Posts: 3063
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • variegated quadrangle arranger
    • the_ptoing
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/2191.htm
    • View Profile
    • Perpetually inactive website

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #74 on: August 28, 2007, 12:23:56 pm
THAT is one HUGE car. DAMN!
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Froli

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 293
  • Karma: +1/-0
  • Dragon Highlord
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #75 on: August 28, 2007, 01:38:41 pm
"Udon is drawing the model design sheets and key frames for the sprites. Another party is also involved in creating the rest of the sprites." <--- The real reason for the anomalies. I don't know who the second party is but, they are trying to keep it a secret to protect that 2nd party's reputation.

Offline Scuba Steve

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 151
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Incredible Baron

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #76 on: August 28, 2007, 02:29:50 pm
I would hardly consider myself an expert on anatomy... but I know my way around it.  But a couple invented muscles... I could hardly give a shit.  I don't claim my position is that the new SFIIHD images are flawless or simply amazing... but they look fine.  http://blogs.capcomusa.com/blogs/digital.php/2007/06/29/p349#more349 T.Hawk looks surprisingly nice as a new HD image, I think they did a terrific job.  Guile is probably the worst image they have shown off so far, but the T.Hawk image and Akuma look decent.  I, too, was taken back by that animated Chun Li image... but I'll have to wait and see the final work.  Sometimes you sound like a one trick pony, Helm, Anatomy.  Agreed, it's very important... but, for the most part, I'm hardly bothered by the anatomy in most of the preview images they have shown of SFIIHD.  Ther blog even shows a render of Saga kicking that looks very similar to your render you did above (nice work, incidentally)... so I would hardly say they don't know what they're doing.

From the start of this thread it was "This sucks!"... when I must disagree.  Amazing?  Not in my opinion... but it's certainly decent and it should look nice on an HDTV running LIVE on the 360.
Glub Glub!

Offline huZba

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 409
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • MekaSkull
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/19396.htm
    • huzba
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #77 on: August 28, 2007, 03:23:29 pm
THAT is one HUGE car. DAMN!
Ever been around an escalade?

I'm not thrilled about SF2:HD, but at least they're doing it by hand instead of grinding the graphics through some photoshop filters and call it HD like a lot of XLA games.

@Froli. I posted that 3rd party earlier in the thread. They're some small fry and if you look at their earlier comics, they have pretty much the same flaws present.

Seems like a lot of people are excited about it, and a lot of them don't really care about the anatomy or whatever, so let them enjoy it when it comes out.
It'd be silly to try and preach people about the flaws and try and make them hate it. Most people don't take games seriously, most people aren't artists being badly affected by the art.

Hehe, also to note, Helm's Sagat was the subject of public ridicule along with some other udon sprites at 4chan. He was dubbed as Granpa-Sagat. Of course we can't give credit to udon making appealing faces for them, since quite a few are traced from older Capcom character art, which was discussed earlier as well. I agree with Scuba that it's useless nitpicking.. kinda, though i agree with Helm as well, as it is not baseless at all. No one should try and learn from these sprites, since they serve as a very bad example and i think this is why some people here feel so strongly about nailing and crucifying them for their errors.

As for my personal view, i'm definatelly not going to buy the game, since i've played the original enough and i don't fancy the new art.

Offline big brother

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 341
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • herculeanpixel.com
    • View Profile
    • Portfolio Site

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #78 on: August 28, 2007, 05:06:34 pm
The background is artistically bankrupt, especially when compared to the original. Every element has its own perspective, scale, and lighting. They are all thrown together in a kind of hideous collage with no thought given to depth or color theory. Not only is it painful to look at, it's even less functional when you put the sprites on top of it.

Offline Helm

  • Moderator
  • 0110
  • *
  • Posts: 5159
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Asides-Bsides

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #79 on: August 28, 2007, 05:46:43 pm
Quote
I would hardly consider myself an expert on anatomy... but I know my way around it.

Judging from your recent comic posted in the OTcreativity thread I'd have to say your anatomical skills are very lacking for someone who has been drawing for as long as you have. I am not surprised if you can't spot much of the issues with these sprites, and it is a valid thing to say 'well if I can't spot them, johnny gamer can't spot them either' to which I reply, when (a pro gaming company)  makes bad art, safe in the knowledge that the common denominator of their target audience can't tell that it's sucky, then a soddy job is being done.

Quote
Sometimes you sound like a one trick pony, Helm, Anatomy.

I wasn't aware that I'm here to provide a variety of entertainment for you. But I've got no problem with being dubbed an 'one-trick pony' if my one 'trick' is advocating proper artistic practises. Stop learning anatomy from anime, stop learning color theory from anime, stop copying anime styles and learn the fundamentals. Think when you draw, observe life when you draw. these are valid critiques for these udon people and the subcontracted group both. I'm not saying go super-realistic with this project, but at least have the skills to pull off aesthetic consistency without everything looking awkward. You don't see me complaining that the Guilty Gear sprites have long-ass legs or anything. They are consistent, it's not a look I enjoy but I'm not whining about it. This stuff is amateurish.

Quote
Hehe, also to note, Helm's Sagat was the subject of public ridicule along with some other udon sprites at 4chan.

y...you don't mean to say... I was made fun of on the internet?!?!


Offline huZba

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 409
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • MekaSkull
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/19396.htm
    • huzba
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #80 on: August 28, 2007, 06:06:54 pm
I mean to say yours didn't amount to much greater quality when observing from the other end of the spectrum. It was considered just as bad as the udon sprites even though it has solid anatomy and udon's has uhh.. something else. The random guy looks at different things for aesthetics.

Offline Helm

  • Moderator
  • 0110
  • *
  • Posts: 5159
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Asides-Bsides

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #81 on: August 28, 2007, 06:24:32 pm
There's such a concept that 'quality is subjective' and then there's the concept of a stacked deck. There's going to be someone to love getting women on high-heels to step on his testicles, it doesn't mean we have to listen to (or even worse, as a company, target) him and take his desires into account. Most good videogames that have stood the test of time have solid and professionally-done graphics! Surprise. There's someone or three out there who think this is the best game there is and they're probably all in 4chan being their awesome radical totally different selves.

Offline shaheen

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 114
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Hardcore Lurker
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #82 on: August 28, 2007, 06:36:45 pm
It's easily understandable why Helm's remake wouldn't have appealed to the general population, and especially considering the target audience of SF fans out there. The style is completely different from anything you would expect to see with the label "Street Fighter" these days. Some people can come to admire it, but there's generally nothing all too 'Street Fighter' about it, at least not what the fanbase has come to know and love. I saw that he was trying to keep the western style of the original, though it's clear the taste of the fanbase goes more towards anime-inspired stuff. So in the end, the only way you will please everyone is by achieving a good balance between that typical anime style of Capcom art with the application of good figure drawing skills.

Offline Scuba Steve

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 151
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Incredible Baron

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #83 on: August 28, 2007, 06:45:49 pm
Judging from your recent comic posted in the OTcreativity thread I'd have to say your anatomical skills are very lacking for someone who has been drawing for as long as you have.

Fuck you.  You know nothing about my past or history as an artist.  I have very little formal training and have been forced to teach myself what I know during my very sparse free time.  I told you, in that post, to critique my work... since I am always open to criticism.  I have every desire to improve my work and stretch myself to be a better artist... but it is constrained by work and other activities.  If you're just going to belittle my art in another thread, go for it... but don't expect me to respect you... I'd have a much higher regard for you if it was genuine critique where it was requested.  Believe it or not, I respect you as an artist, Helm.  Your work is fascinating and self exploratory at the same time.  You have the strongest dedication to this site of anyone who has ever come here... continuous and consistent posting and critiquing for... 5 years?  I value your critiques and comments, but if the best you have for me is that I'm an embarrassment as an artist because I've spent years and have no talent, then respectfully, fuck you.

I may come off vitriolic, but that's just my nature.  Being told I'm not any good without any genuine criticism irks me to no end.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2007, 06:48:18 pm by Scuba Steve »
Glub Glub!

Offline Rox

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 591
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #84 on: August 28, 2007, 09:24:24 pm
Woah.

I'm with you, Scubes, but I don't think Helm intended to insult you on a personal level. He has a point. And starting a post with "fuck you" is... definitely more insulting than what he said. It's kinda true that your anatomical workings could be more accurate. Personally, I don't think it matters. But to some, things aren't worth doing if you don't do them RIGHT. Helm does that. I like it. Keeps you on your toes. Even though apparently using Paint isn't right.

Suddenly, I forget what I was trying to say. Ohyeah, I think it was that you don't have to throw a "fuck you" at Helm for saying something that seems to be true. Even if he's good at being painfully blunt.

Me, I don't really know what the fuss is about regarding this Street Fighter deal. I mean, yeah, some of the pics have positively horrid anatomy. Thing is, people don't notice. Even if they do notice, they don't care. People don't play Street Fighter because it's anatomically correct. Yeah, it'd be really nice if someone who could actually.. draw a correct hand were to work on a fighting game, but whatever. I have no clue how this argument could spawn from such a discussion in the first place. Yes, the anatomy is bad. No, it doesn't matter.

Offline Helm

  • Moderator
  • 0110
  • *
  • Posts: 5159
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Asides-Bsides

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #85 on: August 28, 2007, 09:28:15 pm
There should be a big length of space between 'huh, I was just insulted on the internet?!' and 'fuck you' and it's called 'asking for clarifications'. I have to urge you to stretch that space out a tad. I was working on critique for your art before you posted on this thread (comics is my main field, not pixels). My comment was based on your past history as a pixelation member, and being formally trained or not was not what I was getting at. Your sob story about 'forcing yourself to be a better artist' isn't new, we all do the same thing. Very few people have such a good eye that they can become awesome artists by when they're 15 or something.

If you're going to be so high strung and attack people when you don't like what they tell you, you won't last long here as an active member. I'm letting it slide because I wasn't insulted by your outburst, but I'll have to protect the userbase if you explode on someone else next time. If you are going to be cool with other people and are just picking a fight with me specifically, I'm not going to indulge you.

Offline big brother

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 341
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • herculeanpixel.com
    • View Profile
    • Portfolio Site

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #86 on: August 28, 2007, 09:42:20 pm
Quote
People don't play Street Fighter because it's anatomically correct. Yeah, it'd be really nice if someone who could actually.. draw a correct hand were to work on a fighting game, but whatever. I have no clue how this argument could spawn from such a discussion in the first place. Yes, the anatomy is bad. No, it doesn't matter.

It's less about being "correct", and more about an artist constructing a believably consistent interpretation. Distort and exaggerate reality, every artist does that unconsciously anyways (by virtue of individual perception). But do NOT abandon basic artistic principles. Use contrasting shapes and textures, draw in the third dimension, balance detail with empty space, use neutral colors as buffers, etc. Try to be inventive rather than derivative. I know the project is a "remix", but that's no excuse to gag creativity and handcuff it to a water pipe in the basement. Some of the world's greatest art was born out of limitations (are publishers that different from Renaissance era patrons?). I'm not saying Udon MUST create a masterpiece, but they can't expect anything other than shit without artistic principles.

Even if players don't care, it matters. Maybe anatomy isn't the primary draw, but everything contributes to the end gaming experience. You get more of what you subsidize and I'm not willing to support a sinking standard for artists in any industry.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2007, 09:47:44 pm by big brother »

Offline Rox

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 591
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #87 on: August 28, 2007, 10:45:19 pm
I guess. It is a bit shocking to have a video game artist make such blatant flaws in what should be basic knowledge for someone who makes their money from drawing. But hey, let's look at it for what it is. It's a remake of Street Fighter with higher resolution graphics for the sake of having higher resolution graphics. It all feels a lot like a "hey let's do this just because we can" deal to me anyway.

Offline am_pm

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 94
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Lurker supreme
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #88 on: August 28, 2007, 11:26:15 pm
Or a "Lets do this for the money" deal.

Offline Froli

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 293
  • Karma: +1/-0
  • Dragon Highlord
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #89 on: August 29, 2007, 01:29:40 am
This is capcom, a huge company! and to think they will try to go for some cheap production with a Streetfighter label is really surprising.
I believe majority of us can detect the flaws of their artwork..Maybe we sound like an ass but perhaps deep inside if we are in their situation, and I was asked to make those sprites, I would turn it down completely because I know my limits. It's Streetfighter man! not some indie/project work and the bar was already set quite high. If you can't make it at least decent, It's gonna backlash at you in the end and make your reputation a joke.

To sum it up, I feel they have this attitude "we don't CARE what you think, we just want to profit". Thats why this was brought up and that's why we probably have this thread. It's give us more a good look on how things work in the business with a big name on the line. Right now, I'm just waiting how this game to come out and be reviewed.

And about helms Sagat, He didn't finish it and he has the ability to make it like dc/marvel comic sagat or something visually appealing ..Takes a lot of guts knowing some people in the internets would joke about it, and he still didn't do it. I wish he did, I was tempted to pm him about it, but from seeing his attitude in this boards, he probably shrug it off.

Anyway, I kinda analyzed why the character looks older is because
1. Facial grin
2. some dark lines by using comic style look
I hope you don't mind helm, I know I can't do justice.. but I did a small change on his mouth area for a serious look to make him a bit younger.


Huzba,
Ugh sorry, I didn't know you mentioned it already.

Offline Helm

  • Moderator
  • 0110
  • *
  • Posts: 5159
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Asides-Bsides

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #90 on: August 29, 2007, 01:50:10 am
Sure, I don't mind, and thanks for the critique.

I like my grin, personally. Your version he just looks uneasy or undecided. There's malevolence in the grin in the original and I tried to retain that. And I think the age and likeness was alright if you look at the source image. A lot of people might have this

in mind when they think Sagat but I certainly don't. Can't please them all, at least I made an aesthetic call of some sort.

Offline Scuba Steve

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 151
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Incredible Baron

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #91 on: August 29, 2007, 04:30:57 am
If you're going to be so high strung and attack people when you don't like what they tell you, you won't last long here as an active member.

I've been around for over 5 years :P  And whether you intended it or not... I was pretty insulted by your comment.  Your reply is comforting that you didn't mean it... but I think you can see why I would be upset.  I don't even know why I posted here... I don't even like fighting games :P
Glub Glub!

Offline huZba

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 409
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • MekaSkull
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/19396.htm
    • huzba
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #92 on: August 29, 2007, 05:44:58 am
Yesss.. that's what i'm thinking when i'm thinking of sagat, or at least something in that direction. He's supposed to be 3 meters tall and has a huge jaw. Capcom's own artists have made far better renditions though. When i play a fighting game i don't look for ordinary, i look for super powers and the extraordinary. I'm sure majority of the target group share my view. I see no reason to depart from the style when he's been like that for a long time in games and the comics. Fans of the comic would go WTF is this guy, doesn't look like sagat at all.

You know this without a doubt, but when making a character such as this, it would be far better to make what most people have in mind rather than what's your personal preference.

Still i think everyone agrees there would be a great benefit from proper anatomy, stylized or not.

Offline Helm

  • Moderator
  • 0110
  • *
  • Posts: 5159
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Asides-Bsides

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #93 on: August 29, 2007, 12:59:58 pm
The SFII sagat isn't this deformed monster with a huge jaw. That all happened later. So if you're remaking the graphics, either you remake everything to fit the current Capcom art style, or you keep it relatively close to the original. The artist is doing half-this, half-that. I don't know how to make it any more plain than this, it's what I've been saying all along. Aesthetic consistency. The fact that they have to keep the bounding boxes of the original sprites would seem to suggest them to to stick closer to the originals than these man-beast designs the more recent SF games go for. What with also that this is a celebrated game that a lot of gamers love dearly and there should be some respect paid to the original aesthetics..

Quote
I've been around for over 5 years

You've been registered on the forums for 5 years sure. You've not been a very regular poster, and with a bit of a strange relationship to the forum, what with the 'I am posting drunk, lol' period at one point and such. If you want to last around here as an active user, don't tell people to fuck off when you feel insulted. Am I clear enough?

Quote
And whether you intended it or not... I was pretty insulted by your comment.

Ask for clarifications, prefferably in private, before you reach for the internet drama button.

Quote
Your reply is comforting that you didn't mean it... but I think you can see why I would be upset.  I don't even know why I posted here... I don't even like fighting games

You posted here because you wanted to push my buttons, obviously.

Offline ndchristie

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 2426
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #94 on: September 02, 2007, 10:54:30 pm
People say things on the internet, people take offense, people give it back double, and it gets messy.  Most of us have had our "shoot first, question later" moments/periods, if not here than in another place.  It doesn't make anyone bad, nor does it make anyone happy.
Most of us have known the name scuba steve for a long time now so, even without background knowledge, it's reasonable to assume that you have been drawing for some time. 

The fact of the matter is that this is a critique board and everyone comes here with that in mind;  the vaguest pretense of a segue can lead into an evaluative process.  You actually do have a lot of trouble with anatomy for a person who has been drawing for any length of time, and it cannot be reiterated enough times that this is a thing for you to study long and hard.

As far as helm is concerned, I hardly speak for him, but it is his job as a moderator to attempt to address every concern (be they artistic concerns or administrative ones) while at the same time keeping the piece, and that is damnably difficult!  He and I have had our arguments (knock on wood), and I can attest to the fact that it can be very easy to mistake concern for insults, opinions for edicts, and the like.







As far as the artwork is concerned, this guy really is all over the place.  What's a shame is the idea that anyone who so much as passes a high-quality illustration program can do better in terms of style, consistency, and general quality, probably faster too.

It's not just capcom too, everyone is hiring shitty artists in a world full of talented gems and the rationale is mind-boggling at it's best.  I'm sure most of you have seen what Marvel thinks is good these days:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/19/NWXM0043_cov.jpg
A mistake is a mistake.
The same mistake twice is a bad habit.
The same mistake three or more times is a motif.

Offline Jigsaw

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 26
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • お前はもう死んでいる。
    • View Profile
    • Josef Axner: Digital Art Portfolio

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #95 on: October 01, 2007, 11:56:13 am
*bump*

The official blog has been updated with two new sprites, of Cammy and Vega (Bison).

I think Cammy looks very decent compared to some of the earlier sprites shown, but the sprite is certainly not without its faults. Her face kind of bugs me, her knees look like kneepits, and the whole hips/abs area is a complete mess. Her arms look kind of correct though, so I guess that's a start! I think Dictator looks good too. The lighting is perhaps a little dubious but given the nature of the sprite I have really no problems forgiving it. It is interesting to note that he seems to look alot stockier than he did in SF2 though - a change I don't particularly agree with, but I guess you can't really tell how drastic a change it will be until we've seen more sprites.


Generally I am very torn about this project. Super Street Fighter II Turbo is probably my favourite game of all time, for many reasons. So while I am very happy that I will get a version to download for my PS3 and/or 360, it does pain me terribly that it - so far - looks so bad. It's just plain depressing to see this "professional" art for a 2007 (2008?) game look so much worse than sprites that were created in 1991, even if you completely disregard the difference in resolution (though of course that does make it all the more embarrassing). In my eyes, the art fails on many levels; yes the anatomy is terrible, the tracing is done poorly, they are adding faults that weren't there originally - but on top of all that I'm quite unhappy with most sprites stylistically. I do enjoy UDON's comic and their art, but basing a game on it feels kind of like shoehorning fanart into a game in place of actual official art. The situation is certainly not improved by the fact that we essentially have second-rate artists poorly emulating UDON's style (except for when they haphazardly insert parts traced from Cacpom art) instead of actual UDON art. For what it's worth I think the portraits, ending pictures and the like that have been showed all look vastly superior to the ingame graphics.

I'm not saying the characters need to look exactly like they did in SF2, or SF3, Alpha or any other game for that matter. I just feel that these sprites are sorely lacking a distinct Capcom sensibility, and because of that the visuals of the game suffer greatly. I can't help but feel that if Akiman, Bengus, Edayan or Nishimura Kinu was in charge of the design, this game would be my dream come true. But as it stands it's a game I'm looking forward to play although I'm almost afraid to look at it.


Helm: That Sagat looks beautiful! :y::) Needless to say that doesn't necessarily scream Capcom either, but that doesn't change the fact that it is by far the best "HD SF2" sprite I've seen. The amount of detail puts the official sprites to shame (though to be fair I guess it makes sense to keep detail down for animating's sake), and I'm impressed that you managed to stick so close to SF2 proportions and anatomy yet make it look so good! One thing I feel compelled to mention though - you seem to have missed the fact that CPS games are drawn in a non-4:3 resolution (384x224 to be exact) and thus should not be scaled proportionally when drawn for a 4:3 display. Scale the width to 78% and it's closer to what it would actually look like in the game.

Offline Helm

  • Moderator
  • 0110
  • *
  • Posts: 5159
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Asides-Bsides

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #96 on: October 01, 2007, 12:26:27 pm
Yeah the scaling issue has been brought to my attention a few times since I did that experiment. I guess I could compress it and rework if it looks odd anywhere, but that would only serve to make me want to finish it, and I don't see any point there!

About detail and animation, no matter how much detail is or is not there, in such huge sprites with so few in-betweens, it'll look choppy as hell anyway. Like a monty python animation, as I've said before. So why not go ahead and make the stationary sprites detailed and interesting to look at?

Offline Jigsaw

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 26
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • お前はもう死んでいる。
    • View Profile
    • Josef Axner: Digital Art Portfolio

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #97 on: October 01, 2007, 12:42:54 pm
Yeah I forgot to mention it, but I was assuming had no interest in touching the sprite further but I just wanted to mention it, in case you weren't aware. I guess you could call it a pet peeve of mine when people don't research the original sprites (when making more serious attempts at recreating them at least). It's sort of the same kind of sloppy mistake the official artists keep making (though of course far more forgivable considering the people who make these aren't being paid!). This isn't a knock towards your sprite though which as mentioned I think looks great.

Regarding the detail, I am definitely with you. What I meant is that in the interest in preserving their own sanity (as opposed to creating the best possible visuals) I can understand why the artist might choose to keep some of the detail low.

Offline Helm

  • Moderator
  • 0110
  • *
  • Posts: 5159
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Asides-Bsides

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #98 on: October 01, 2007, 12:51:50 pm
I think the time it takes to pillowshade those clothes like that is pretty much as much time as it would take to shade more naturally and sensibly and put some detail on there as well. It's not a matter of time spent, it's a matter of ability to apply a functional methodology to how you make your digital art. Their stuff looks really like the way someone who has no foundational studies in art would work. Someone you'd buy off of deviant art, who is self-taught and is hesitant to refine his method further because 'if it works, why change it'.

Offline Jigsaw

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 26
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • お前はもう死んでいる。
    • View Profile
    • Josef Axner: Digital Art Portfolio

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #99 on: October 01, 2007, 01:59:27 pm
Oh, I agree. By "lack of detail" I wasn't referring to the pillowshading but rather to how your lineart (and presumably final sprite had it come into existence) has a lot more detail in it than their sprites do. And for the record, I am not in any way defending the way they are making their sprites, I just made a general note of the fact that a lack of detail (or a conscious simplicity, if you will) can have its advantages.

Offline Scuba Steve

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 151
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Incredible Baron

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #100 on: October 02, 2007, 10:50:27 pm
The biggest problem with this endeavor is that it cheapens what I said Capcom and SNK should have done about 5 years ago... redraw all their characters in a higher resolution for the new "millennium".  This was a good attempt... but they are just shoehorning their work into a game that wasn't made for it... their time would have been better spent creating a new fighting game with high resolution characters rather than monkey them into a preexisting title.  I always adored the Capcom artwork for SNK v Capcom and though that would make a nice a great fighting game.
Glub Glub!

Offline Lee N

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 98
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #101 on: November 04, 2007, 06:43:38 am
Someone has leaked unfinished .PSDs for this game.. it's posted here if anyone is interested. It still looks bad.



"I'll just paste the heads here and start from there.."

Boo.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2007, 06:46:52 am by Lee N »

Offline AdamTierney

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 308
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Adam's Page

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #102 on: November 04, 2007, 10:24:37 am
How embarrassing. In terms of the leak, and the art.  :P

Offline .TakaM

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1178
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
    • Fetch Quest

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #103 on: November 04, 2007, 11:18:57 am
god.. dhalsim is so bizarre


edit-

ok, I'm a complete noob at anatomy... but at least I don't make the mistake of two left feet
« Last Edit: November 04, 2007, 11:31:45 am by .TakaM »
Life without knowledge is death in disguise

Offline Helm

  • Moderator
  • 0110
  • *
  • Posts: 5159
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Asides-Bsides

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #104 on: November 04, 2007, 02:42:20 pm
*sigh*

Offline Feron

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1123
  • Karma: +0/-1
  • Carpe Diem
    • View Profile
    • Pixelheart

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #105 on: November 04, 2007, 05:17:24 pm
*sigh*


i completely concur.

just look at blanka's right forearm... wtf

Offline Jad

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1048
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #106 on: November 04, 2007, 08:23:45 pm


HOW DO I ANIMAETED!
' _ '

Offline bengo

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 580
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • https://pixeljoint.com/p/5787.htm
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #107 on: November 04, 2007, 08:33:49 pm
His hands are in a uh, handjob position, lulz, god these look terrible.

Offline Scuba Steve

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 151
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Incredible Baron

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #108 on: November 05, 2007, 01:11:04 am
I say the sprites are fair game... but the animations are much more difficult to critique.  Remember, they are shoehorning these sprites into the original animations, not creating new ones.  Someone higher up than the animators made the call to keep SF2 game play identical to the arcade... but just add High resolution images to the arcade.  All images are required to be the same size, relative shape and with identical animation frames to the original Arcade SF2.  I'm not saying whether I agree with this or not... but do take the restrictions the artists were under into consideration, it's only fair for a critique of the work.
Glub Glub!

Offline ptoing

  • Moderator
  • 0101
  • *
  • Posts: 3063
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • variegated quadrangle arranger
    • the_ptoing
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/2191.htm
    • View Profile
    • Perpetually inactive website

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #109 on: November 05, 2007, 01:26:45 am
Well what you say is true Steve, but it is very apperant that the people who made these sprite revisions have no clue of animation. The seperate frames seem to be drawn without comparing one to another while making them, which is what you need to do in animation to not get inconsistant bits, which here are plenty.

Several bits, esp his right arm and the neck are all over the place, with changing anatomy and shading. This, as far as I am concerned can be called halfassed at best and is a poor testament to Capcom.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Noveroth

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 90
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #110 on: November 05, 2007, 04:54:33 am
I bet you could turn that Dhalsim image into a pretty badass samus

Offline sharprm

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 660
  • Karma: +0/-3
  • INTP/INTJ
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #111 on: November 05, 2007, 05:08:41 am
The fact that they are leaks means they still may plan to clean up the frames and make them conistent (for shading and lines). But when it was said it was leaked, does that mean someone was careless with their usb or something, or do people working there really feel strongly about how the art looks (in a negative way) that they risk their jobs to leak it?

I don't know enough about anatomy but i think the head for red bandana guy is too small. Maybe when u playing the game u wont care so much about how it looks.
Modern artists are told that they must create something totally original-or risk being called "derivative".They've been indoctrinated with the concept that bad=good.The effect is always the same: Meaningless primitivism
http://www.artrenewal.org/articles/Philosophy/phi

Offline Scuba Steve

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 151
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Incredible Baron

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #112 on: November 05, 2007, 05:56:47 am
I agree about sloppy elements of the animation, ptoing... I see a lot of copy and paste, the shading is all over the place in the arm... I was just reminding people, who may not be familiar, what the constraints were.  I think that adds a layer of constraint that must be considered.  There is some video footage of the game floating around the net... It's really fuzzy and grainy... but the animation looks decent sped up and quick.  Again, I'm not defending Capcom here, but there's more to this than just a crappy animation.
Glub Glub!

Offline Jad

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1048
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #113 on: November 05, 2007, 04:47:40 pm
I agree about sloppy elements of the animation, ptoing... I see a lot of copy and paste, the shading is all over the place in the arm... I was just reminding people, who may not be familiar, what the constraints were.  I think that adds a layer of constraint that must be considered.  There is some video footage of the game floating around the net... It's really fuzzy and grainy... but the animation looks decent sped up and quick.  Again, I'm not defending Capcom here, but there's more to this than just a crappy animation.

Actually, you could work under the same restrictions and come up with way better methods than this. Like for example work with shading in a larger scale, making sure that even the most basic shading works in all frames of an animations.

I mean, what does it matter that still frames look good when EVERYTHING IN THE GAME WILL MOVE AT ALL TIMES except for when it's paused? It's just stupid.

No hating, though. I have no idea of how the artists were briefed before taking this assignment, but, well, the results could've been better. Seriously. Maybe they should've hired people with experience in ANIMATION? Gah. D:>
' _ '

Offline big brother

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 341
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • herculeanpixel.com
    • View Profile
    • Portfolio Site

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #114 on: November 05, 2007, 05:49:33 pm
Just because the animations have to stay within the collision boxes doesn't mean they must share the exact articulation of the pixel version. For example, there is no excuse why the hanging flaps of the belt can't move smoothly and less drastically.

The coloring is awful -- flattens the entire sprite and turns the foreshortening into a joke.

The butt crack that appears and disappears on his neck/trap/completely invented muscle made me laugh.

Offline baccaman21

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 549
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • It's critique, don't take it personally.
    • View Profile
    • Linked In

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #115 on: November 05, 2007, 05:58:00 pm
those are misinterpretations of veins..

this whole thing smells of outsourcing the artwork to indian gfx outsources...

the lack of consistency, the misinterpretation not to mention the complete lack of understanding of the characters...

it begs belief...

makes me sad... very sad. :'(
Buy the book - The Animator's Survival Kit by Richard Williams

www.burnzombieburn.com

Offline Lee N

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 98
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #116 on: November 05, 2007, 08:38:09 pm
this whole thing smells of outsourcing the artwork to indian gfx outsources...
It's outsourced all right, outsourced to UDON - an american comic book stuido. I think it would've been for the better if they found some animators in india to outsource it to. Right now it's like a bad joke.

Offline Blick

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 573
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • I am not an eskimo.
    • pixeljoint.com/p/327.htm
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #117 on: November 08, 2007, 07:49:36 am
This has got to be an elaborate April Fool's joke. There's no way it could be this ridiculous. I mean, this whole time I thought "Maybe the artists are just horrible." Blanka with two left feet ended that thought process though. Either the artists are fucking blind or this is a wonderfully prepared and executed joke.

Offline .TakaM

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1178
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
    • Fetch Quest

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #118 on: November 08, 2007, 08:16:54 am
the 2 left feet will be because of the fact they flip and rotate a lot of limbs, I'd assume they just didn't have blanka's right foot at that angle yet, so they're just holding it's place with the left foot... or they were dumb and didn't notice it was a left foot :crazy:
Life without knowledge is death in disguise

Offline Helm

  • Moderator
  • 0110
  • *
  • Posts: 5159
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Asides-Bsides

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #119 on: November 08, 2007, 06:20:53 pm
The worst thing about this isn't the two left feet.

Offline Scuba Steve

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 151
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Incredible Baron

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #120 on: November 08, 2007, 08:32:20 pm
Isn't that particular issue directly related to retracing old artwork; required to have the new art fit the old bounding boxes?
Glub Glub!

Offline Helm

  • Moderator
  • 0110
  • *
  • Posts: 5159
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Asides-Bsides

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #121 on: November 08, 2007, 08:37:06 pm
I don't know. Show me the bounding boxes for that frame and I'll show you a way to make them work without awful anatomy.

Offline Cammy

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 10
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #122 on: November 09, 2007, 12:04:11 am
this whole thing smells of outsourcing the artwork to indian gfx outsources...
It's outsourced all right, outsourced to UDON - an american comic book stuido. I think it would've been for the better if they found some animators in india to outsource it to. Right now it's like a bad joke.

Long Vo from Udon is the artist working on the sprite charts that are sent to a studio in Hong Kong who are working on the colouring and everything else. Since the hard-core Street Fighter fans want the game to play exactly like the original (they don't even want remixed music or newly recorded speech samples) the positions of all the limbs on the characters has to stay exactly as it was in the original and no animation frames can be added. It was Capcom's decision to keep it this way and have the whole project confined to a low budget because they needed a next-gen Street Fighter game that could be developed in a short time period to get out there to fill the void between now and when Street Fighter 4 comes out.

Oh, and I thought I'd point out that Udon is a Canadian comic company, not American, not that it's very relevant but some people might take it as an insult.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2007, 12:08:12 am by Cammy »

Offline ptoing

  • Moderator
  • 0101
  • *
  • Posts: 3063
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • variegated quadrangle arranger
    • the_ptoing
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/2191.htm
    • View Profile
    • Perpetually inactive website

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #123 on: November 09, 2007, 12:54:34 am
Since the hard-core Street Fighter fans want the game to play exactly like the original (they don't even want remixed music or newly recorded speech samples)

Then they should just play the original.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline .TakaM

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1178
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
    • Fetch Quest

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #124 on: November 09, 2007, 01:40:59 am
I don't know. Show me the bounding boxes for that frame and I'll show you a way to make them work without awful anatomy.
There was no bounding box in the psd, but it did have the original sprite frame:

just as bad really.. Still, I'd like to see your version helm :)
Life without knowledge is death in disguise

Offline Scuba Steve

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 151
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Incredible Baron

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #125 on: November 09, 2007, 02:30:43 am
Now... this is NOT the official size of the bounding boxes... but based off the other works... the blocks I used are the same size... so it would probably be SIMILAR.



Also, it seems as though the people in charge are also aware of many of the concerns that have been raised.  Their Blog talks about inconsistent shading and the problems with Blanka.
Glub Glub!

Offline Helm

  • Moderator
  • 0110
  • *
  • Posts: 5159
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Asides-Bsides

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #126 on: November 09, 2007, 02:43:11 am
So you're telling me that since the bounding box is what it is, we can't take that long arm from there and extend the left leg so it covers up the exact same space? We can of course, but whomever is making this doesn't know the first thing about anatomy and is not interested in making good art, he's interested in doing the little he thinks he knows , just as Capcom hired him to do.

Offline shaheen

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 114
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Hardcore Lurker
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #127 on: November 09, 2007, 02:44:20 am
Quote from: Capcom Blog
[The CPS2] made advancements in arcade technology and essentially, was capable of handling better, more detailed graphics. So any character or move that was new to the game between SFII and SSFII was developed on the CPSII board. So Cammy, Fei, Long, and T Hawk were able to have some cool effects added to them, like the blurring, which was not possible for the other characters developed on the CPS1.

This quote is talking about this frame here: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2014/1879371617_7619ff6eeb_o.jpg
Uh, what? Are they actually saying that clearly manual motion blur common in animation for decades was due to an enhancement in arcade hardware?

Also: the Blanka sprite is part of a sequence in which he rests his weight on that elongated arm. Even if you were to make the HD version look nice anatomically, it'd be difficult to try and fix the entire animation, I think. The original Blanka sprites were very wonky to begin with.

EDIT: Here's the sequence I was talking about: http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/4410/blankaza0.gif
« Last Edit: November 09, 2007, 02:47:37 am by Khris »

Offline Cammy

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 10
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #128 on: November 09, 2007, 04:53:08 am
Since the hard-core Street Fighter fans want the game to play exactly like the original (they don't even want remixed music or newly recorded speech samples)

Then they should just play the original.

I don't understand why people would complain about remixed music and new sound effects if the whole look of the game has been changed, but the really hard-core SF guys love to bitch about everything. I loved SSFII/ST, but since this is a new revision, I have no problem with it playing differently or sounding better if the game is more fun to play. I just can't wait to see Cammy in action.

Offline Conzeit

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1448
  • Karma: +3/-0
  • Camus
    • conzeit
    • View Profile
    • CONZEIT

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #129 on: November 09, 2007, 05:42:52 am
and now for something only I could care about

I love JohnK's blog...this all makes so much sense now that I've seen him complain about Korean inbetweening studios :p. the whole system is made to replicate bland and boring.

the people up above think more shades and more rez =more quality, but no one in the project has any clue of animation "cause it's already animated anyways" so we're seeing subpar illustrators making millions of illustrations one after another without any relation within themselves...and then they're stickin it into a game....eek

Yet another post about everything you already knew with some added nonesense.

courtesy of ~Conceit~

Offline Ben2theEdge

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 503
  • Karma: +1/-0
  • I'ma drink mah coffee!
    • View Profile
    • My Deviantart Gallery

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #130 on: November 09, 2007, 02:32:45 pm
First off I should make it clear that I really, REALLY hate the way this project is turning out. The thing that aggravates me most is the way these Udon artists are misrepresenting a great game, and oldschool 2D graphics in general.

Having said that, I also think it's totally unfair to be ripping apart leaked WIP art that the artists obviously aren't ready to show anyone, without them even present. The quality of the art is beside the point, it's an honor thing.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2007, 02:35:02 pm by Ben2theEdge »
I mild from suffer dislexia.

Offline big brother

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 341
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • herculeanpixel.com
    • View Profile
    • Portfolio Site

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #131 on: November 09, 2007, 06:13:41 pm
Out of a morbid sense of curiosity, I downloaded the leaked art and opened the PSD files. There are the original pixel frames resized on a layer behind Udon's work. They have already taken liberties, not exactly matching the shapes and positions of the limbs, so that argument is bullshit.

One of the major problems I'm seeing is the difference in design philosophy between low and high resolution work. I can forgive many of the quirks in the original sprites. The priority was making the sprites read, giving them bigger heads and hands to accommodate the detail that conveys the personality of the characters. In high-res, these sacrifices don't need to be made, which is why the Udon sprites look like grotesque mutants. No offense, Blanka.

Offline Froli

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 293
  • Karma: +1/-0
  • Dragon Highlord
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #132 on: November 11, 2007, 06:56:19 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_CoKEvn45Q

I believe this is the first  video released so far. Really...Using a cell phone camera vid <from what I heard> to advertise their HD game and make it blurry. I feel there some shady reason behind it, like.. hide the details? :huh:

Offline .TakaM

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1178
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
    • Fetch Quest

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #133 on: November 11, 2007, 07:59:59 am
probably the best quality vid so far:
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/121409.html
grabbed from an HD interview, so don't worry about it jumping :P
Life without knowledge is death in disguise

Offline eck

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 322
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • But why is RUM gone???
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #134 on: November 11, 2007, 02:05:21 pm
the 'recieve damage' animation and the 'K.O' animation really stuck out to me as in need of major improvement.
untz untz untz?

Offline Lee N

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 98
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #135 on: November 13, 2007, 04:29:20 am
There's no end to the failure around this project, is there? Apparently they're going to rebalance the entire game now, changing timings and button combinations to be more forgiving. They will still let you play the game the old way, but with the old graphics.

So, tell me. If you're not going to stick to the old gameplay with the new graphics.. why the eff are you trying to stick to the old restrictions? This is beyond retarded. They should just've made a completely new engine from scratch, with real artists and animators.

God this pisses me off.

Source:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8577209&postcount=1

Offline shaheen

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 114
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Hardcore Lurker
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #136 on: November 13, 2007, 04:39:22 am
Er, uh... first line of that forum post:
Quote
Before you bitch, THE ORIGINAL GAMEPLAY WILL STILL BE INCLUDED AND UNTOUCHED, BUT WITH THE NEW GRAPHICS, it is just an option.

I heard about the changes, and they sound great. What they've changed doesn't really warrant a completely new game. The meat of the game is still based on the old code, while the only addition is in the form of a few changes in the movelists and move properties. It's another Street Fighter 2 revision.

Art still blows, but at least the game itself will continue to rock.

Offline bengo

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 580
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • https://pixeljoint.com/p/5787.htm
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #137 on: November 18, 2007, 06:08:17 pm
HAY GUISE I CANT DO DOWN + DOWN-FORWARD + FORWARD + PUNCH, A SIMPLE COMBINATION OF BUTTONS THATS VERY EASY TO PULL OFF ESPECIALLY ON A CONTROLLER. MAKE IT SO I CAN PRESS DOWN ON THE D-PAD INSTEAD SINCE I AM A FAILURE AT GAMES.

Games are getting too easy, its making gamers weak.

Offline Helm

  • Moderator
  • 0110
  • *
  • Posts: 5159
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Asides-Bsides

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #138 on: November 18, 2007, 11:57:57 pm
weak for what? The upcoming nerd war?

Offline shaheen

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 114
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Hardcore Lurker
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #139 on: November 18, 2007, 11:59:57 pm
Quote
Games are getting too easy, its making gamers weak.

Not really. Regardless of the fact that they're focusing on more difficult motions to pull off (like the 360 for Zangief's Spinning Pile Driver, or the Tiger Knee motion for Sagat (d,df,f,uf)) in regards to simplicity, the inability to pull off those maneuvers doesn't determine who's 'weak' in Street Fighter. They're simply leveling out the playing field for those characters who may have intimidated less reflex-enabled players. It's a great idea to appeal to the greater audience who don't choose to practice the motions constantly.

There are, however, quite a few games currently out there for those who wish play a fighting game that has a heavy emphasis on reflexes. Guilty Gear and Melty Blood are good examples of this.

Offline Lee N

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 98
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #140 on: November 22, 2007, 01:42:03 am


More at LOLFIGHTERZ

 ;D

Offline happymonster

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 455
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #141 on: December 06, 2007, 06:32:24 pm
For comparison, here is a screenshot from SF4, (3D, but with a nice art style)

Offline Conzeit

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1448
  • Karma: +3/-0
  • Camus
    • conzeit
    • View Profile
    • CONZEIT

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #142 on: March 14, 2008, 08:50:51 pm
http://blog.capcom.com/archives/998

They realized the art style was too heavy a cap to have. I say that's good because the artists werent taking advantage of the extra shades anyway and now it actually looks more cohesive. I wouldnt have used a whole shade for outlines though, I'd be a little more creative and play with the balance of amount of shadows and highlilghts for each character, according to the pallete of their skin.

Offline Helm

  • Moderator
  • 0110
  • *
  • Posts: 5159
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Asides-Bsides

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #143 on: March 15, 2008, 09:20:18 am
Seeing it in motion... I hate to be proven right about the cardboard cutout thing. Bigger resolution, needs more inbetweens. What can be said?

The new art looks better (at least the flesh tones do, and no double-jointed thumbs, alright) but I still fail to see how this is an upgrade from pixels in terms of movement and gameplay. If anything, they should have remade the pixel art at say, double the res, and with more in-betweens. That would have been a doable project at half the time, and it would have looked proper.

Offline happymonster

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 455
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #144 on: March 15, 2008, 12:53:50 pm
The anatomy does look better. Was there anything really they could do without creating a whole new set of high-resolution in-between frames?

Offline Helm

  • Moderator
  • 0110
  • *
  • Posts: 5159
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Asides-Bsides

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #145 on: March 15, 2008, 02:05:52 pm
There's LOTS that could be done by real animators. You'd be surprised to see how well a good snappy 6 frame punch can work with good anticipation and flow. The original sprites weren't any wonder of animation to begin with, but they work as low res sprites. Bigger res calls for animation artistry to make them work, but oh well.

Offline happymonster

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 455
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #146 on: March 16, 2008, 10:06:37 am
So, why have they not gone down that route? Money?  ???

Offline Conzeit

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1448
  • Karma: +3/-0
  • Camus
    • conzeit
    • View Profile
    • CONZEIT

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #147 on: March 16, 2008, 12:53:26 pm
The original guy who came up with the project loves the game, so I dont think it was his choice to just go for the cheapest option. I think it was just ignorance about just what is required to make good HD sprites. They thought they could use UDON comic artists for it which was already a bad decision since they're not animators and they dont know how to do this.They went with UDON because they liked the way their comics looked, but then it turned out that they could actually use UDON so they used the company UDON usually ourseources to, which were just crappy artists....who started shoehorning old stuff into the sprites.

Now they're having to re-do the sprites with less shades because it's just turning out too much for the outsourced company to do sprites with so many shades, I bet it's because they're running out of budget, and who wants to spend on a remix of SF2, when SF4 already looks soooo much like SF2 in 3D?

Offline BimTuckley

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 1
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #148 on: June 26, 2008, 10:16:49 am
Just bumping this because the Beta is out.
The trainwreck that never ends - even the gameplay is broken.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCseWmfIjzU

And as a bonus the new character select pics.

Cammy as well as Chun Li look like insects and every male has the same nose.

Also 4chan reacted to the beta with their own interpretation of HD streetfighter





 



Offline .TakaM

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1178
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
    • Fetch Quest

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #149 on: June 26, 2008, 11:03:42 am
lol, oh god.. so much for 're-balancing' the gameplay  :P
Life without knowledge is death in disguise

Offline Conzeit

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1448
  • Karma: +3/-0
  • Camus
    • conzeit
    • View Profile
    • CONZEIT

Re: Street Figther HD Remix

Reply #150 on: June 27, 2008, 02:38:22 am


ROFLMAO! XDDDDDDD you're such a mean bastard!

I'm actually feeling really sorry for the guy at the helm of the project...I know his brother and he's a good man =/