[WIP]The blobs

[chigsam]

well this is going to be a completed game soon but here are some of my sprites right now




C&C great so i can make my game look good

[dragonrc]

The sprite: the colors are very close to eachother, upper the contrast. Darken the outline and make it less saturated.
The animation: Because this guy has no arms you should do more with the body, make it move a bit.
Use this image for a reference:

[Krut]

Lets leave the animation aside for now.

Well, the first thing i could tell you is that you post some pictures of your backdrops/stages, right now i think that maybe you are going after a soft/child-drawing like look reminiscent of the Snes gamehttp://sourceforge.net/dbimage.php?id=12201(for example).
If thats the case, the eyes and mouth of the character is contrasting too much with the rest of the character, and you should replace that colour with a softer more similar to the character colour.

In any case, the actual colours of the character are too pale, and you should up the contrast between them at least a notch, the actual outline of the character may need to be a little more noticeable also depending on the backdrop.

The perspective seems a bit weird to me also, since the character seems to be facing a sideview, yet on the animation, we see the legs on a different perspective.

You should also consider a slight hue variation on the colours, wich tend to make the sprites more rich visually.

After that maybe, we could take on that animation, but like i said on the start, leave it aside from now.

If you need any more asistance, im happy to do some edits if you want.

-Krut

[chigsam]

this any better



i changed the sat difference between each color up higher,
i changed the mouth so its not black but a very lower sat of the middle color,
made the outline a little more visible

I like pale colors

[Krut]

The problem my friend, is that the colours you are using, makes the shading barely noticeable.
You also havent fixed the perspective issue, wich could be dealt either making the face in the same perspective as the legs or viceversa.

I took the liberty of making a few edits, see if any of them do you good, if they do, study and gather what you can, and retry doing some stuff on your piece; Post the progress, and lets take it from there.



Looking forward to your progress on this sprite.

-Krut

[chigsam]

i dont get how how the legs and face are in a different perspective
i dont really like your color choice  i really like my choice of colors and perspective.

[Opacus]

i dont get how how the legs and face are in a different perspective
i dont really like your color choice  i really like my choice of colors and perspective.

Well then you're probably the only one I'm afraid. I don't like your colours whatsoever.
His colour choices are better, your perspective is flawed, not his. Don't ignore his comments man.

[Zee]

Chigsam, your colors are flat, uninteresting and lack and form of shading or shape. Your perspective has two legs visible typical of a 45 degree view and a head that's typical of a 90 degree view, and he has no neck so that cannot even physically work.

[chigsam]

Yea well i figured it would look better at the face of a different angle but my guy doesnt need a neck becuase he is fine how he is,
im starting to not like my color choice either but i was going for a kiddy cartoony pale look not a Krut look with colors.
Soooo.... I dont like their choices of colors but i cant find my own

[Zee]

"Kiddy" isn't a choice of colors, unless you mean primitive. Sure it uses lots of solid colors and simple designs, but any color can work and the best way to find good colors is trial and error.

[Opacus]

Kiddy doesn't mean making your sprite look flat and plain. In kiddy, you actually get alot that they look like baloons with big white highlights and cel shaded.

[Krut]

i dont get how how the legs and face are in a different perspective
i dont really like your color choice  i really like my choice of colors and perspective.

Hey man;

Hope this illustrates in a better way; check the big guys with the green arrow; they both have fixed perspective.
In one, you have the eyes that acomodate the legs perspective, and the other is the exact opossite (the sideview)



I was just proposing some alternatives on your colour choises, giving emphasis on the slight hue variation, wich as you can see, does make a piece more visually appealing, you can, however (and thats the point) check how its done and pick your own colours with hue variation.

The colours are indeed brigther, but thats not what im trying to show you, but the contrast between them; if you have 2 shades, and one is practically the same as the other, the shading wont be noticable, and speaking in pixel art terms, its a wasted colour.

Now, probably you dont like the changes that i made to your char, BUT, look at them, check the antialising that i applied, it makes the char rounder; check the little highlight done at the bottom, wich enriches the character, check the shadows, the little "bump/lip" that now the char has, all of this take it study it, and apply as you see fit in your own way.

-Krut

[chigsam]

am i getting any closer to what you are saying?

>> changed the eyes a little to my liking

[Krut]

Perpective is better, yes 

Id say the shading still needs to be adressed though, and for some reason, you now have added pixels in the "joints" of the outline.
The body needs to cast a shadow on his left leg also.

[ptoing]

That already is a lot better, tho the colours don't do much.

You do need more contrast though, it might as well be 3 colours or something. The shade you have for aa is wasted for example, it does nothing and the shadowcolour as well. It just does not read all too well atm. Krut's edits are a very good way to go and try emulate, tho i would say that the shadow could still be a bit darker and more contrasted.

keep it up.

[chigsam]

ok well here is a screen shot of my game without the new sprite added:



i like my perspective on my new guy that i made but i dont think it would fit the perspetcive of my game :/

[Zee]

Gamemaker huh? I started programming and spriting with RPG maker 95, but hey, it's all good.

And it'll fit just fine if you bring the top of your platforms up maybe 5 or 6 pixels to show their top sides, it'll help perspective a lot.

[chigsam]

i dont get what you mean put it on an angle?

[Krut]

Well, like i feared, you background and your character blends too much, (the pink blob on the bottom part), you might want to look into that with your new version, specially the outline.
You have a good reference in order to get rid of that problem, so even if you want to maintain pastel looking colours, you need contrast between them to make them noticeable, and even more contrast between character and background, otherwise your gameplay goes down because the character wont be noticed by player.

Also, dont worry about the different perspective between the char and the platform, the "Kirby" games maintains the same aesthethics (diagonal direction of the player and full sideview of the platforms) , this can be handled with the animation, plus, you could extend the platform  a little on the upside (think of it like a topdown + sideview merge) Like shown in this picture.
.

Continue your progress on the sprite  .

-Krut

[chigsam]

oh i get what you are saying! perfect example thank you! now i just need to work on those colors i guess! 

[piotrek255]

yeah, kirby is the best refference for such blobs:) he's so cute

dragonrc-> where did you get that sprite animation? it's awesome

[chigsam]

still no matter what i do with pink i cant get the right thing

[Krut]

You have been given examples, and guidelines to acomplish...if you dont post progress on the sprite we cant help you man.


Dont give up, keep at it.

-Krut

[chigsam]

it seems like everytime i boost up the contrast it gets uglier  so i just mess with the same colors and it looks almost the same 

[.TakaM]

chig, there isn't much I can say that hasn't been said, but I think being another one to advise you that not only should you, you need to increase the contrast on your sprite, even if I just copy your sprite over into photoshop, and slide the contrast up, its an improvement:

that still looks pretty bad, but its a step up.
You need to read over all the advice people have given you and take a serious swing with it all in mind.
the feedback you receive here is usually a lot more suggestive than this post of mine, but so many people have offered you great advice and edits, and you seem to be paying them no attention

[chigsam]

i have read those but i just cant make my contrast go much higher with it looking like a good pink blob
i dont really want it to be a different color becuase there would be no point of pink blobs if they werent pink

oh well i guess i could keep going little by little gives me something to do

[LoTekK]

In addition to what TakaM has said (along with everybody else on this thread), you've got way too many colors in there for what you have. That's 8 different shades, for a sprite that's about 19x19 pixels.



Levels adjustment, knocked out half of the shades (down to 4 now), and adjusted some remaining shades. Haven't bothered touching the hues or saturation. Also haven't bothered adjusting the actual shading. Your selout was also pretty haphazard, with the darkest shade used to outline the side where light was supposedly hitting.

[chigsam]

but seriously.... No offence (i dont think you would take any anyways) but if someone say that sprite in my game they would give it a negative rating 

[.TakaM]

I can't work out where this advice doesn't connect for you..

maybe go back and look at that kirby sprite, he's a pink blob, and he looks a lot better than your sprite

edit-
actually, it may be because..:
just about every game in GM uses stick figure, or blob sprites, and I've long since gotten sick of them, hell, even though kirby has some fantastic sprites, I'm sick of him.

with your blob sprite, we don't have much to work with, its a pretty bland design, boring colours, simple animation.
and every edit we have offered (save for krut's fantastic edit) hasn't been noticeably different

[LoTekK]

I took the liberty of reducing your 8 colors to 4. I managed to reduce the contrast without altering any of the colors, and still make it visible against your pink background thanks to the darker outline.

But seriously. Try and understand what people are posting, instead of dismissing it because you feel like it. You were, after all, the one who asked for critique:

C&C great so i can make my game look good

[philipptr]

example on how to get higher contrast without making the bright parts look so over exposed. actually I dont understand why dont look closely at kruts edit pretty early in this thread. it shows how to fix some fundamental problems of this piece and it seems almost like you completly ignored it.

[dragonrc]

dragonrc-> where did you get that sprite animation? it's awesome

http://pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4367

[chigsam]

i think this is my final one



not sure if it got better or worse :/ well next ill be working on my big guy from my creativity topic

[LoTekK]

Wow. You actually made the contrast even worse. Are you actually paying attention to the crits and suggestions, or did you simply ask for c&c for shits and giggles?

[ptoing]

Indeed there is no improvement in readability at all.


I made a small, simple edit bringing down the colourcount from 10 to 6 and also increased the contrast as well as added some aa (pretty much what others have done already)
Here you can see an animation between your sprite and my edit and if this does not make it clear that your sprite does not read well at all, then I really don't know.

[Zee]

Wow... amazing what a different set of colors can do to something. It's the same shape, same features and all that changes is colors!

Excellent teaching aid, I'd say.

[ptoing]

Well i changed the shading and added aa as well, but the basic form is the same, yes.

[chigsam]

i just dont like the colors but i do like how you can see its shape more

[Helm]

I understand how someone might not like things that read well, have good palettes, so on, but honestly, I don't know what other comments you're likely to get than repeats of the above. So if you don't find those useful, I don't think there's anything else to say about this sprite.

[Zee]

Here, I just did it [if I wasn't at work, I'd post it] and if you use dark red for the outside edges and use a little AA like ptoing's has, a little less highlight on the lip and forehead and you've got your pink critter but still good contrast

[Krut]

Hey man;

You have all the necessary tools to improve, we have given every last tip of possible advice; this reflects it alongside with a new colour pallette wich seemed to be your biggest concern.

The colours themselves are irrelevant, you could make the blob blue, purple or PINK like you wanted, the colours there, in addition to show you what hue shifting was, were showing you basically that they needed more contrast (that means in really basic terms, to pop out more), the inner colours, so the shading of the character is more noticeable, and the outline of the char itself so it stands out from the background.

I give you one final edit, with the colours i think you seemed to search for, in pure tones of pink, with practically no hue variation.



Value all the input that you have been given, keep at it, and dont give! we all start somewhere, so try and get those concepts we are telling you about; with practice, youll handle them in no time.

-Krut

[chigsam]

yes now that is what ive bean searching for! oh yes thank you so much!

[Krut]

Also, just made this, just so you take in account that basically all of us told you the same thing.


The character needed more contrast; Check all the examples given, from all of them, yours are practically the only ones that blend with the background.


-Krut

[chigsam]

great now when i actually did get it right my comp freezes up and mspaint doesnt respond  GOT I HATE THIS LAPTOP

[chigsam]

well "I" think it looks a lot better becuase you can see the shape. i decided to make him not circular as you can see from the shading on his left side  i am rather pleased

[Krut]

Hey, finally you got it!, its much better.

Your problem now, is that the tone you are using to antialias is too strong and similar to the outline colour, it should be a tad lighter, because right now its too similar to the outline colour.

Also use the lightest shade (not the base colour), to antialias alongside the colour i told you before, it might make the antialiasing more effective.

-Krut

[chigsam]

Also use the lightest shade (not the base colour), to antialias alongside the colour i told you before, it might make the antialiasing more effective.

not sure about that part :/ dont quite understand you

[Zee]

Bingo.

[Xion]

I think the third pink (the one smack in the middle) should be used as anti-aliasing on the light side, instead of that darker one.

Nice to see some improvement.

[chigsam]

Xion sure i changed it doest look any different



i also started on the zombie

[fawel]

Hey Chigsam, I really lol'd when I realized that you were only putting everyone's comments off only because you were concerned about how the sprite would look against the background.  You need to make things like that clear at the beginning man

[dragonrc]

I think your outlines could be a tad darker and less saturated.
Here is an edit to show you what I mean:

(left is my edit, right is your sprite)
Also, you should put the color of your background as background color instead of green when you are pixelling like in my edit. This way you will know how it will look ingame.

edit: accidentally uploaded it as a bmp at photobucket

[philipptr]

Now that you have contrast, why did you add dithering? looks very ugly at anything above 1x

[chigsam]

well i added a little dithering on my pink guy becuase i gt bored and i guess i forgot to take it off.
on the zombie i purposel dithered becuase i thought it would make it look rough

[Krut]

Hey man;

With the pink fellow, theres some extra pixels around the  "crotch" area, where the left leg meets with the body, (compare with the blue one, and that pixel is not present there).
The colour you are usign on the eyes its practically a wasted colour, since you are only using it there, and you could probably use the colour of the mouth.

You alsol have some minor contrast issues in the "zombie" (as you call it) fellow, darken the outline a bit.
And by the way, you call it a zombie; if he is supossed to be a monster version, give it som darker features, like red eyes, eyebags, maybe some fangs, whatever; right now its just the blue version of the pink one.


Do you feel ready to now try the walking animation with the pink blob? Try it with your newest version, and post the results.

-Krut

[chigsam]

Pink Blob:
Darkened the outline
(how did i miss this ) Made the eyes the outline color
Got rid of most dithering



Zombie:
@Krut : he isn't aggresive they don't want to kill you they just follow you like the lifeless beings they are
Darkened outline
Got rid of most dithering



Wow i think im almost ready for my animation 

[chigsam]

attempt 

[Obsidian]

The blob itself looks decent, but the animation is much too choppy, and doesn't really resemble walking. If you looked at just the silhouette, it would have no readibility at all. Use that kirby image someone posted as a reference.

[Krut]

Basically what i did here is correct some loose ends that you had on the sprite itself (AA, better handling of the shadows and highlights)

Then i took an edit on the animation itself.


Your biggest allie when animating are mirrors; Even with something as basic as walking (that everyone is supossed to know how it works)...is to watch yourself do it; observe what moves, what comes first, the pacing and what happens when you do it.

Then sketch it out; draw the rough key frames, some preffer silhouttes; fill the rest of the frames. Does it make sense? do you understand with it being a sillhoutte what its supossed to be doing? if the answer is yes, keep going, if not, you need to review



After you feel good with it; flesh it out! put the colours, decide how the lightsource and shadows will vary, what kind of character is? a walk can show you the personality of the char; is it confidente, goofy, sneaky? it all depends on the animation.

Pacing and timing is very important; when you walk for instance (and that was one of the things wrong with your walk) is that many things happen at the same time; Not only you move one leg at a time, the other stays behind for a split second, knees bend, feet rises your overall height decreases at some point and you recover it at others.

Timing is giving that keyframe more or less emphasys; some movements are more long in time than others, others are affected by the starting velocity, or recoil; all of this you must take in account.

I also added more frames; You had 4 and now it has 8; though it can work pretty much flawlessly removing 2 transition frames; you can also make a good animation in 4 good keyframes, the problem with your animation is that you didnt use them good; you only moved one leg at a time, and the other stays in the same position; like i said, get a mirror and watch yourself; Does your other leg stay in the same position?
Observe, you are no longer looking, but watching, how it works, how it moves.

I gave your character a particular personality, try to study what i did there, and apply it once more with a brand new walk, lets see what you can do!

-Keep pushing it, this isnt a talent, is a logic thing, if you try and persevere, youll get better, is as simple as that.

-Krut

[skeddles]

-dancedancedance-

Its kind of hard to tell if that would look good or not. The whole body need to shift more, not just the legs.

[Zee]

Change your background color to the pink you're using for the BG and up the contrast on that outer line.

[rabidbaboy]

Then i took an edit on the animation itself.


-Krut

Excellent edit, Krut.

That is how I would go about with the animation (though, I probably wouldn't do as good as this).

Keep in mind the foreshortening; the leg nearest us should cover more distance than the leg behind.
Looking at Krut's edit, I'd say either make the leg nearest to us move forward more, or move backward less.

This is going somewhere.

[Opacus]

Note on Krut's edit: I would remove the pause in between the walk when he stands still a few frames, looks a bit like a robot walk now. I don't think that's what Chig wants.
But if you remove the pause, I think it would look excellent.

[yosh64]

hey

I just wanted to point out that I think chigsam was trying to go for a soft blob, rather than a hard pacman. I quite like your latest one, but I much prefer Krut's animation, which I think looks more like a blob. But yea, I think the animation is very important to give the character the feeling/illusion of a blob.

Ohh, and I would also have to agree with Opacus.

cyas

[Krut]

Note on Krut's edit: I would remove the pause in between the walk when he stands still a few frames, looks a bit like a robot walk now. I don't think that's what Chig wants.
But if you remove the pause, I think it would look excellent.

That was basically my intention; I made him all chubby looking (reinforced by the little "bounce" on the body as he goes down) and the sumo wrestler-like walk; I tried giving him a very distinct personality, while trying to stay away from a more conventional, to force Chigsam to try his own take on the animation; a new personality.

Im not trying to give him what he wants; im trying to point him in the direction where he can do what he wants.

-Krut