AuthorTopic: Commercial Critique - Dodonpachi  (Read 80629 times)

Offline Stickman

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Re: Commercial Critique - Dodonpachi

Reply #50 on: June 08, 2007, 02:56:03 pm
I do agree with ptoing on the matter. Having bullets that look like "real" bullets together with a slightly larger hitbox on a background of similar contrast can make gameplay tricky (Although Battle Garegga is a fantastic game). It's interesting seeing the comments and views on the artwork, selout, AA etc on the actual enemies. When playing a shooter for the first time, I usually checkout the backgrounds in some detail but not the ships (I don't know why that is). As long as I can see the ships and the bullets on the background, I've never really care for the ship details. This thread however has made me appreciate the ship designs alot more.

Still though...Gameplay first, ships sprite later...and if it needs a fat peice of AA, selout, odd colour mix to do that then it's cool with me. Now....let me checkout those Ketsui sprites.... ;D
« Last Edit: June 08, 2007, 03:02:29 pm by Stickman »

Offline ptoing

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Re: Commercial Critique - Dodonpachi

Reply #51 on: June 08, 2007, 02:59:12 pm
Having bullets that look like "real" bullets together with a slightly larger hitbox on a background of similar contrats doesn't bode well for gameplay.

It still works in Battle Garegga, you get used to it after playing it for a while.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Stickman

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Re: Commercial Critique - Dodonpachi

Reply #52 on: June 08, 2007, 03:04:48 pm
I had just edited my post when I had read that back when you sent that ;D

I've got the game and you do get used to it

Offline EyeCraft

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Re: Commercial Critique - Dodonpachi

Reply #53 on: June 13, 2007, 03:57:48 am


The more I look at this coldly, not in the heat of the fray, the more I feel all this talk about perfect priorities in DDP and everything being visible at all times is a bit silly. This screenshot I'll give you, is the worst it gets, but holy shit, besides bullets and main ship, the rest is a priority mess. Just because it's manic and you don't have to check when you're firing every single splitsecond, and just because bullets are supersat pink and purple doesn't mean what's underneath them reads well at all. I think it's a case of us believing our own hype.

Of course some levels work much much better than the mess above. But we have to take the mess above into account though, right?

I see what you mean, tho it is not that bad really, imo. Look at Battle Garegga, there when you first play it you don't see anything. You are like "what??? why am dead now???" But after a while you actually get used to the more realistic, non glowy bullets in that as well, quite fast actually. Same here plus the background never animates which helps. In stills stuff really looks way worse than it is.

I haven't played the game AT ALL. So all I have to work off is the screenshots, and really, that shot Helm shows really is pretty aweful. Even just some basic principles are foregone here, imo. The shading of the glass looks very shoddy, lacking any proper light behaviour. The orange section between the glass sections has a very bland texture, and tiles quite poorly. Simply put, the background in this shot is garish, and actually looks like the work of an amateur.

The giant red ship's palette is totally whack, too. It's very neon and lacks any decent contrast. It looks almost unshaded.

Maybe you guys need to take off the rosy glasses and inspect discerningly. Btw I do not intend to come across as a dick.

Offline ptoing

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Re: Commercial Critique - Dodonpachi

Reply #54 on: June 13, 2007, 05:30:55 am
haha yeh i know what you mean. That screen DOES look horrible. It's pretty much worst case scenario. And that ship is a singularity in the game. It only appears a few times in the last level, it's completely out of style. Very odd. Still I stand by what I say. When you play the game it's readable enough. This does not mean it could look nicer in places :)
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Commercial Critique - Dodonpachi

Reply #55 on: June 14, 2007, 12:33:06 am
for all the "in movement" controversy

check 2:19 to 2:37

in This DoDonPachi Youtube Video

 
« Last Edit: June 14, 2007, 02:58:44 am by Conceit »

Offline Ben2theEdge

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Re: Commercial Critique - Dodonpachi

Reply #56 on: June 14, 2007, 01:23:16 pm
After playing the game, I am going to take the controversial stance and say that for the *most* part, these artists knew exactly what they were doing. When you see the game in motion it really does read better than these still screens would have you believe. These graphics were not designed to be viewed stationary, but in motion. If we compare this to the holy grail known as Metal Slug (granted, it's slightly unfair since they're different genres) This game tries to stress detail but at the service of the gameplay, whereas Metal Slug with its dull colors, while beautiful, is not the most functional game it possibly could have been, with characters constantly being lost in all the crazy but earth-toned animation. It's a balancing act and we see examples that fall on either side, and I think in this case there was a compromise between the artists and the game designers: the artists got to make their sickly detailed crazy designs, but had to keep them readable when moving at high speeds. And it's quite impressive that they accomplished that goal. I really recommend everyone see the game in motion in a clearer form than Youtube before casting their stones.

If anything this game is a lesson that designing pixel art for the sake of art differs, sometimes dramatically, from the functionality of putting it into a working game. But I believe that tension sometimes produces our best work, and this game is a very interesting anomaly.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2007, 01:30:19 pm by Ben2theEdge »
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Offline AdamAtomic

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Re: Commercial Critique - Dodonpachi

Reply #57 on: June 14, 2007, 05:24:56 pm
I think the screenshots are very misleading, because in-game the enemies are constantly flashing or covered in explosions, making them VERY easy to see, and the enemy bullets are usually drawn on top of the players own enormous range and rate of fire.  One could probably argue that making the enemies base sprite stand out any more would make them almost distracting once you add flashing, movement, origin of enemy fire, and explosion/fire sprites.

Now, that doesn't excuse the occasional just plain ugly background of course :P  and I really have no idea what they were thinking by just slapping the fire sprites on the bosses.  It communicates the idea of them having low health nicely, but they really look like bad decals!

Offline miscdude

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Re: Commercial Critique - Dodonpachi

Reply #58 on: July 10, 2007, 10:14:38 pm
hmm....The wasp boss is very well drawn and colored, but something about the abdomin bothers me....
here

i made a crappy lil diagram to show my point
if it reads to be pointing outward like the arms are, you would thing the shading to get light if it gets closer to she source of light, so the tip of the abdomin would be brighter...unless im mis-percepting the angle in some way. really these are beautiful, and that is only one of the few problems i saw :)

Offline Skull

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Re: Commercial Critique - Dodonpachi

Reply #59 on: July 11, 2007, 02:51:18 pm
I see your point, but consider gameplay and how much would be going on, I think we can let it slide. :D
Even alone, it looks incredibly impressive.