AuthorTopic: Little Harder Than I Thought  (Read 11003 times)

Offline madartiststan

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Re: Little Harder Than I Thought

Reply #10 on: May 29, 2007, 06:37:48 pm
I really appreciate all of your help Lotekk, and don't think I'm not listening. I just had done a whole lot more prior to refreshing this page and reading your new comments, so I started on a shirt and the makings of a hat, but the pants remain the same.

So I'll post where I'm at now and go work on the pants a bit more.




Edit: Playing with some hue shifting, tried to get some "warmer" colors as Lotekk said, for the darker areas. Currently reworking the right leg (our left) and I still have to clean up and redo the left leg (our right).




Edit 2: Been cleaning up the legs and making them look better. I know the shirt is pretty terrible and it was sort of just a test to work with stuff. And see what sort of colors I could go for. In the end I'll go for something really vibrant with the shirt, hat and shoes.

But until then:

« Last Edit: May 29, 2007, 07:20:45 pm by madartiststan »

Offline LoTekK

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Re: Little Harder Than I Thought

Reply #11 on: May 29, 2007, 07:02:32 pm
One thing I forgot to add about the dithering and excessive AA. If you've got excessive dithering and AA, you're going to find it a nightmare to animate the sprite, since you'll more than likely end up with a hellishly flickery and swimmish animation, with spots jumping all over the place. You could put in a lot of effort to match them up, but (a) why put yourself through that hell? and (b) especially at this resolution, you're not likely to be able to match everything perfectly.

Looking forward to seeing your next update. :)

ps. Work on that pose, too. :)

Offline madartiststan

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Re: Little Harder Than I Thought

Reply #12 on: May 29, 2007, 07:25:37 pm
I also ought to explain the stance as well....

I hope to have some sort of cane or so under that ridiculously outstretched hand and his right arm (our nonexistant left  :D) placed on top of his left arm (our existant right  ;D). I haven't drawn in the non-existant arm just yet (obviously). But definitely all still WIP.

And Lotekk's comments have really been helping. =D

Offline philipptr

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Re: Little Harder Than I Thought

Reply #13 on: May 29, 2007, 07:46:58 pm
One thing I forgot to add about the dithering and excessive AA.
Have I missed something? I can't see any AA on this piece O_o

Offline madartiststan

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Re: Little Harder Than I Thought

Reply #14 on: May 29, 2007, 08:00:11 pm


Nearing completion, which I hope to achieve today, the facial features and shirt especially are really giving me such hell it's unbelievable. Of course, this is my first time doing something of this nature.

It's going well tho I think.

Offline LoTekK

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Re: Little Harder Than I Thought

Reply #15 on: May 29, 2007, 09:07:08 pm
philip - Might be a case of me using incorrect terminology. :) I was referring to the not-quite-AA-but-not-quite-dithering on the pants in stan's second pic:


stan, I see what you're saying about the pose, and it does make more sense now. That said, there are still some anatomical issues. With your arm outstretched to the inside like that, there would be more clavicle movement, which would bring the entire shoulder/arm forward. From the angle we're looking at him, that would mean the shoulder/arm wouldn't be sticking out to the right that much. Additionally, legs are still too short. Take a look at the first example in Draco's post for a better idea of leg length (Terry is a mite exaggerated).

Now the hue shifts.
I'll start with images, since my 4am brain can't think of a good way to explain with words (these are referring to the HSB/HSV sliders in Photoshop; click the little arrow at the top right corner of the color pallete, and select "HSB Sliders"):

H=Hue, S=Saturation, B=Brightness (aka V=Value)

You'll notice that as B increases, S tends to decrease (this can be the opposite, but generally you can stick with this relationship). Also note that H follows a trend as well. If your lights are warm, your darks will tend to be cool, and vice versa. Hue shifting, as you can see, gives you a much more interesting "gradient" to look at than simply altering the brightness and saturation. (third gradient copies S and B from the previous gradients, while fourth gradient only copies B):



At the moment your hue choices are a bit haphazard, with 3 of your 5 shades sharing the same hue, and 2 inbetweens going in opposite directions on the color wheel.

Shading so far on the pants, imho, is still noisy, but improved. Lighting seems off, assuming his left foot is supposed to be further away from the viewing plane than his right (if this is the case, his left lower leg should be mostly in shadow, with maybe some light catching on the cuff of the pants where it's bunching up around/resting on the shoe).

The shirt right now seems to have a couple of folds that make sense, but most of it seems rather random. Again, put on a top that's close to the fabric you'd like the character to be wearing, put yourself in that pose, and get some reference shots. Fabric and drapery are tough, make no mistake. Use reference. :)

And I swear, if I'm talking too much, please let me know. :p
« Last Edit: May 29, 2007, 09:16:00 pm by LoTekK »

Offline InvaderLupus

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Re: Little Harder Than I Thought

Reply #16 on: May 29, 2007, 09:21:49 pm
Here's a quick edit I did of the pants:



I feel as if you didn't really pay attention to LoTekK's edit earlier. The shading is EXTREMELY messy all throughout the piece. It's extremely difficult to determine the light source, and it looks blurry. I think you really just need to simplify things: pick a light source and a good few shades, and then do the basic shading. Don't get too complicated or it's going to look like a big mess. Dithering isn't necessary for a piece this small, and can really make it look worse. You don't need nearly as many colors as you have, either. Pay attention to the edits, and learn from them.

I'll let someone more knowledged correct your anatomy issues.

Offline madartiststan

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Re: Little Harder Than I Thought

Reply #17 on: May 29, 2007, 09:32:14 pm
Bah, you're not talking to much.  :) At least not for me, as I talk quite a bit myself irl, besides the more indepth you go the clearer the explanation, the more it helps. So thanks for that. Also thanks for the little tip on HSB sliders.

I use photoshop but don't know much outside of brush, blur (other arts I've tried to do), and pencil. :P And of course the eraser. I'm working on some updates so it's coming.


Hoi, sorry posted while Invader Lupus was posting his edit, ah yeah I'll definitely take that into consideration to make it look cleaner. I've been trying to get rid of this messyness as you said.

E: Really trying to make it less mess and complicated similar to what Invader Lupus did in his edit to make it look somewhat smoother, but I'm still trying to get some crinkles and such for the jeans worked out.

« Last Edit: May 29, 2007, 09:45:45 pm by madartiststan »

Offline poingo

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Re: Little Harder Than I Thought

Reply #18 on: May 29, 2007, 09:46:18 pm
I'm not an expert on pixel art by any means at all, but if you were intending on animating this, I'm pretty sure you would want to make it as simple as possible, while still retaining looks.  Otherwise it will get tricky.
The above post may not be helpful at all, as the author usually has no idea what he is talking about.

Offline LoTekK

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Re: Little Harder Than I Thought

Reply #19 on: May 29, 2007, 09:50:51 pm
Painful as it may sound, the best (and, ironically enough, the most painless) way to get rid of the messiness at this juncture is... to simply block in the shades again. Fill those pants completely with a midtone, and block in your lights and darks (emphasis on block, so keep it rough, don't worry about hard transitions). Think about where the light will hit: upper leg, light; lower leg, dark; cuffs, light. From there you can refine the forms, without the currently-existing dithering to distract you. For this stage, try and limit yourself to 3 tones: midtone, light, and shadow. After this, you can add a highlight, and possibly a deep shadow. Remember (especially for this size), keep the forms simple!

edit:
Just noticed your edit. Much better, infinitely more readable. Though your pallete choices are still a tad haphazard (easy to fix, though). :) Uh oh, legs are still short. Fix up the proportions and anatomy issues before you go any further. Don't even touch the shading and folds on the shirt until you've sussed the arm/shoulder issue I mentioned earlier (it'll make things easier on yourself further down the line).

One last thing I just noticed. The main part of the hat (uh, the bit the head actually goes into, I'm blanking on the name) is too narrow for the head. Widen it by a pixel in each direction.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2007, 10:16:39 pm by LoTekK »