AuthorTopic: Pixelation Complaints  (Read 12973 times)

Offline crab2selout.png

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Re: Pixelation Complaints

Reply #20 on: August 01, 2005, 02:14:48 pm
I have a question for everyone. Do people prefer that threads last forever, or that they are deleted with age?? Would archiving (and/or locking) old threads be a better way to save the information while preventing posters from bringing back long-expired topics? What about some sort of checkbox to suggest archiving?

I'd prefer it be automated... but any ideas are welcome here.
Archive for sure. It would make replying to "how do I do x in iso" or similar type topics simpler because we could tell them to simply search the forum for old topics on that subject. And we relly need to start preserving the things that get said on this forum. It saddens me to think of all the lengthy useful replies people have made that are forever gone. Could be helpful for replies too, by making it possible for people to look for the advice given in similar topics when trying to make critiques

Offline diced

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Re: Pixelation Complaints

Reply #21 on: August 01, 2005, 07:09:29 pm
I am quite curious on what stuff you took issue with on Pixelation and I'd like you (and anyone else who feels the same way) to discuss these issues openly so we can hope for a better pixelation when it comes back online.
Is it okay if we do the opposite? I would like to praise the Pixelation structure and its moderation.
In my experience with Pixelation I have often acted immature, stubborn and destructive beyond what is acceptable at any community. Did the staff of Pixelation initially ban me? No they took their time and tried to talk sense into me. Sadly I was too tenacious at the point of time to realise how wrong I was and eventually they had to ban me. And to be honest I deserved to be banned you can forever quote me on that, and I am very sorry for the way I acted.

My motive to posting here is that I think you guys deserve this recognition and praise, (I will not be posting here after this, since I have nothing to do with pixel art anymore), you work hard and I know that you have often had to bite your tounge whenever someone attacked you.
After Pixelation went down we have seen a lot of new forums spread (I even had a couple... And this really helped me to see things clearer), and I can say that personally I think the Pixelation staff forms the best team. They are mature, articulate and most importantly they really care about what a pixel art board should be about: Learning and helping others learn about pixel art.

I wish you guys the best of luck.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2005, 07:14:06 pm by diced »

Offline DarkSword

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Re: Pixelation Complaints

Reply #22 on: August 01, 2005, 11:53:45 pm
(I will not be posting here after this, since I have nothing to do with pixel art anymore

 :'(


I'll have to agree with diced and those that spoke before him here. Pixelation just plain worked as a result of the actions of the people who ran it. Actions of tolerance. It has become very clear that a limited amount of tolerance is needed in order to have a peaceful Pixelation. It would see that that is the general consensus.
There cannot be unanimity without dissent.

- Georgia K. Hortanane

Offline Helm

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Re: Pixelation Complaints

Reply #23 on: August 03, 2005, 07:15:04 am
diced, making that post took a lot of balls. You and I haven't been on best terms in the past, but that doesn't stop me from telling you this, and that I am impressed, and respect your initiative. Whether you continue to do pixel art or not is your own choice, but if you do, remember that, as you said, in helping each other become better pixel artists, pixelation will always be the place to post for critique. There'll always be some forum drama and pixelation user politics, but hopefully this will not dilute the essence of the place.

Darksword: let's not get too much into eulogizing. Pixelation DID suffer from too-harsh-too-swift moderation at times, and I can tell you because I was also partly responsible. After a long time as a mod, you sorta start to lose patience with the preliminary actions that would at the end result in a lock, mostly. Bans where more considerate, of course, and it should be noted that for such a giant forum, the number of total bans were extremely low. But towards the end of the last run of the boards, there would be locked threads and deleted posts sometimes even without a single warning. The userbase just got too big to do the PM-dance with everybody that broke the rules. I don't believe this added strictness is bad in itself, but it was bad in that it didn't reflect in our FAQ and TOS of the time, and we were unable to change them. Basically, we outgrew our old FAQ very much, and were unable to update it to mirror the new set of standards. Now we can, though, so that's going to be fixed, hopefully.

Sals: I see you bow out of a constructive discussion of the matter. I'd like to see you retract the 'juvenile' accusation if you do, at least, since not seeing 'eye to eye' (which I understand as 'agreeing to dissagree' mostly) shouldn't include insulting the people you don't see eye to eye with, but hey...

Offline Peppermint Pig

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Re: Pixelation Complaints

Reply #24 on: August 03, 2005, 11:25:33 am
Thank you for acknowledging the troubles of Pixelation Diced.

Helm is correct. We literally could not modify the FAQ/Rules to reflect with the times, which was a disadvantage in keeping the forum on a productive path. Tsugumo and Frozen were fading out of the picture, so without the presense of our head admins, or an official relationship with our hosting, we began to question our own authority as the organization evolved. We had to think on our feet more often than we wanted to.

Quote
Darksword: let's not get too much into eulogizing. Pixelation DID suffer from too-harsh-too-swift moderation at times, and I can tell you because I was also partly responsible.
I'll second that. The incidents where people posted fake jobs brought about heightened scrutiny towards even legitimate job posters, which likely appeared harsh and unreasonable to them, making me and the others look bad. While swiftness can be bad, not every account can be dismissed as such: The staff had spent many hours deliberating on the various issues of the forum, and swiftness became an interest of productivity in order to return the forum to its focus.

Still, Diced and DarkSword bring up a good point: Pixelation moderators must be patient, able to commit, reason, and re-evaluate every step of the way, and it can be very stressful. The patience it demands also requires a great deal of time in service. There's often little reward. Unfortunately, too few people are able to deal with it. We really could use more good mods. And because Pixelation was a critique based forum, critique of the moderators performance was also embraced. Accountability was expected.

Personally, I can safely say that I am biased by my experiences and position. Even so, I've always tried to be objective as a moderator, even when it meant ruling against friends. The coldness of objectivity has often been misinterpreted as hatred, and an unwarranted prejudice looms still.

If I may parley back to Diced's observations, I'd bring up the issue of perspective over a period of time. It appeared that some people held the belief that the moderators at Pixelation were, to bluntly generalize, corrupt thugs. In the course of over a year, forums have risen and fallen, partly based on these beliefs. Some people who objected to the principles of moderatorship, or the individuals who represented the authority, became moderators themselves in other venues and have possibly obtained a certain amount of perspective on the matters of community and fairness. This is an excellent opportunity for those people to share their experiences. Even the common members of forums must have some opinions on the policies and methods by which a site chooses to operate.

For some people, it's difficult to relate to the perspective of someone of 'authority'. Even the suggestion brings perceptions of disparity. And to the regular member, the perspective tends to be that a moderator is popular until the rules fall out of your favor and they bring down their authority on you. Some people race to the conclusion that the rules are explicitly slanted against them, let alone any possibility that someone of authority can act fairly and objectively in the first place.

Moderators are not immune to error. They are human. Sure they have 'powers', but the only thing they are guaranteed by taking up the position is responsibility. Some people will avoid responsibility when it is convenient, but If moderators were the absolute law, then people would see no reason to be responsible in any way for themselves or to the community for which the governing body caters, because their freedoms would be so heavily restricted by the whimsy of the few. While rules help keep the system focused, freedom cannot be legislated, and responsibility cannot be given. If you can see the common values of the community, you're compassed to understand the good and bad elements that it is composed of.

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Pixelation Complaints

Reply #25 on: September 07, 2005, 12:54:37 am
My first complaint, is that helm had to do a topic for this space to exist.

*I think there should always be public space for any user to make a complaint. I think it may have been part of the reason flamewars (or as close as we came to have one) started, when the users felt the system was failing they just built up resent, only expresing it when hate was already involved which translated into abusive comments.

now, I dont say this is how it has to be, but I think the ideal is that this space were sort of a sub-section of the admin board, and have the same mood to it, just people trying to take care of the problems, and discussing calmly the best way to go around them.

*second...is I think we became too tolerant to bringing others down. I felt I acted like a grangatuan ass recently when I reviewed my past actions in pixelation, and I apologize to anyone that felt I abused. But it is more concerning to me that only once did anyone tell me so.

under the guise of C&C we've allowed empty critiques that are stated politely to seem "OK", thus many get away with bringing other downs for now reason, just because they are SUPPOSED to.

I do not know how to fix or regulate this, but I think it is something to watch out for, something for the staff to keep in mind.

*The removal of the "jobs" board, it may not be necesary at the moment, but I belive it was never rational or well deserved to just let jobs fall trough as "general" comments.

*I belive ocasionally the staff may take issues personally and become biased against certain users, I've never actually been in the situation, and I know the people who make all the fuss and create all the drama are the ones most responsible, but I feel sometimes the staff does play along and help inflate the situations a bit.

Offline Peppermint Pig

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Re: Pixelation Complaints

Reply #26 on: September 07, 2005, 07:14:28 am
As Tsu stated, the OT was the place to complain about moderators and discuss anything outside of the purview of the forum.

This thread was meant as an additional service, becuase apparently people were not taking advantage of the liberties available to them already. And it's a new forum and we wanted to start off fresh again.

How should we organize the forum sections for the time being?

Offline Evan

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Re: Pixelation Complaints

Reply #27 on: September 11, 2005, 02:48:08 am
How should we organize the forum sections for the time being?

I think the organization is fine, except I would like a challenge/activity forum, since they will most definately become a larger part of this forum...

Offline Peppermint Pig

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Re: Pixelation Complaints

Reply #28 on: September 11, 2005, 07:45:02 am
That sounds reasonable to me. I'll set it up as soon as I'm awake here.. XD

Whether it works out or not, I'm open to giving this a shot. I think it will, though.

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Pixelation Complaints

Reply #29 on: September 13, 2005, 12:34:34 pm
yeah, and archive old activities while you are at it.

is there the posiblity to make sub-forum sections? I mean forum sections only linked to from a forum section?

like for example Pixelopolis>Pixelart>portraits