PARTICIPATE IN LINEART THREAD DECISION

[Helm]

Okay, I've been browsing the lineart thread for a while and it's become something of a pocket universe in Pixelation, where it has some users that don't participate on the rest of the forum, and the quality of the colors sometimes is very low, without any attempt to give critique to people who post them. This doesn't promote learning and betterment, so I was thinking perhaps it's time to purge the lineart thread and add an additional rule to its usage. You can only post lineart in it. If you color something, you should make a new thread for it, so it can get critique.

Discuss.

[Panda]

Go for it.
Also, maybe it could go to the activities/challenges part.

Oh and if you need help just say so.

[The B.O.B.]

   I agree with Panda. It's nice that this is being brought to the rest of everybody's attention, just maybe it could all be placed somewhere, where all of it can be focused on at once. I understand the redundancy in doing so, seeing as how the lineart thread alread provides this for us, but it would be better to create an all new thread/finished line-color dump, than flood the forums with them (not to say that everyone here isn't willing to help...just more organized, ya know?) And yeah, people need to come out of thier shells and not be afraid to ask for critique...

[Zenobia]

   I agree with Panda. It's nice that this is being brought to the rest of everybody's attention, just maybe it could all be placed somewhere, where all of it can be focused on at once. I understand the redundancy in doing so, seeing as how the lineart thread alread provides this for us, but it would be better to create an all new thread/finished line-color dump, than flood the forums with them (not to say that everyone here isn't willing to help...just more organized, ya know?) And yeah, people need to come out of thier shells and not be afraid to ask for critique...

I agree with this one. Lots of seperate topics seems unecessary as well. And I still feel bad posting something that isn't 100% mine.
One topic for coloured line art critique seems perfect.

[Helm]

Since where were threads with pixel art asking for critique unnecessary threads around here? We get lots of threads with borrowed lineart anyway. As long as the credit is given, they're just regular threads as far as pixelation is concerned. If they're low quality, they should be helped to become better.

That's the point, I don't want the colored linearts that are posted to be signified as part of some special 'lineart thread' mentality where you don't expect much just because the lineart is borrowed. I want them to be integrated with the rest of the critique threads.

[kakikukeko]

If they're low quality, they should be helped to become better.
That's the point, I don't want the colored linearts that are posted to be signified as part of some special 'lineart thread' mentality where you don't expect much just because the lineart is borrowed. I want them to be integrated with the rest of the critique threads.

Sounds a good idea to me.. 

[9_6]

Sounds good to me.
Then again this could result in masses of topics exhibiting very similar works -if there is a 'colouring fad' going on.
There are also people who just colour linearts for fun and don't want to work on those any longer because it isn't entirely made by them.

[Gil]

I don't agree completely here. I know that some people like putting some colors down on a lineart quickly, just as an activity, not to get real specific comments on it.



This, for example would have never been made if I had to show it off in any thread besides the line art thread. I don't believe it warrants a new thread, it doesn't really fit in any other threads I have, since those tend to be really project-specific, and I don't want any comments on it besides: "hehe, cute"

I'm all for cleaning that thread up a little, but this little bugger wouldn't have been made. You see where I'm coming from? I understand your need for consistency though. What about creating an Off-topic Pixel Doodle thread? We can post half-assed pixeled work there, and small lineart colours. Basically, if done that way, you're separating the current thread into a lineart thread, and an offtopic one with lesser art.

[Panda]

Well, not having a thread like that would make you either push yourself and polish it more so you can show it, post it for critique, or keep it to yourself.
As an ultimate resort we still have the OT creativity thread.
So I think it would be better overall.

[Sharm]

I don't believe it warrants a new thread, it doesn't really fit in any other threads I have, since those tend to be really project-specific, and I don't want any comments on it besides: "hehe, cute"

But most of the time these pictures don't get any comments at all.  Not even an "I like this".  That was a problem with the first Palette Challenge thread (don't know about the second.  It's rather dead).  There were a few critiques I would have made in these threads, but I didn't feel comfortable, since it seemed like a display thread, and not somewhere where critique was as welcome as the rest of the board.

I personally would like a bit of critique on the stuff I post for challenges, but I don't want to post it in a separate thread.  I like to see my art next to the ones other people did, and I'd rather not have to explain the purpose when I put it up.  But if I need to deal with it if I want any comment at all, I suppose I'll get over it.

[gliding]

The only problem that could arise is with this is that serious posts would be pushed further down on the list, due to more compertition for the first page slots. I also condone an increase in critique on the thread, however, I don't know if an entirely mandatory rule should be implemented.

[AdamAtomic]

if people aren't trying very hard, and they aren't getting feedback, then perhaps the lineart thread should be a source thread only?  Like only lineart is allowed, not colorings or anything.  That way people can still contribute lineart to the community, but the sloppy-coloring-book-that-no-one-cares-about aspect would be taken care of.  If you want to color some lineart, then color it and start a thread with your work like everybody else!

[Helm]

if people aren't trying very hard, and they aren't getting feedback, then perhaps the lineart thread should be a source thread only?  Like only lineart is allowed, not colorings or anything.  That way people can still contribute lineart to the community, but the sloppy-coloring-book-that-no-one-cares-about aspect would be taken care of.  If you want to color some lineart, then color it and start a thread with your work like everybody else!

That's what I had in mind.

So let's say I lock the thread we've got right now, and keep it stickyfied for a while. At the same time I start a new thread where I make it clear ONLY lineart is to be posted. Any post with colored art will be deleted. People can just make new threads for their colored artwork, or if it's just a quicky keep it to themselves or eventually decide to work more on it until they need critique. Sounds good?

[Feron]

Can't you take all the remaining linearts from the old thread and have them hosted on pixelation server like the videos - otherwise they might get lost.

good idea having a solid clean lineart thread with no colorings.  will be a good resource to dip into now and then without searching between all the colorings.

[Helm]

We could do that... if it wasn't so many pages and deathly boring Panda might offer to do it because he's a better man than me.

[Feron]

well ive got lots saved from before... i think, would only be a matter of drag/drop and then zip for me, i don't mind doing it.

[Helm]

we need all the links to be active and put them on pixelation server and link back from them. It's a bit of work...

[Feron]

well ive got all of the decent ones, plus a few others from elsewhere saved.  thats about 125 linearts.  You could upload them to the server as a backup and perhaps if there was ever a main pixel-arts.org site in front of the forum then they would find archive there...

if anyone else has any of the old linearts that are now gone, i would quite like them to add to the collection.

[Rydin]

I think a strictly line art thread would not only add to functionality; no swimming through colors and comments; but also add to the overall...respectability I guess would be the right word, that Pixelation seems to give off.  To tell the truth, I never really thought there was that much wrong with the thread to begin with, however.  But if there's going to be some renovations, I think fixing the "messiness" of the thread would be on the right track.

[Xion]

I guess I'm among the minority who found the once-in-a-while-fresh lines, once-in-a-while-different takes on the same lines, and semi-OT of the ol' liney thread one of its attractive things. I agree with Gil in that, I sometimes color lines, but I'd never even start coloring them if I knew I'd have to make a completely new thread to display them in. Part of the coolness of the lineart thread is that you can just take some cool lines, splash in some color, repost them in the same thread, and have it all be just an excersise, or something not to be taken seriously but you still want to share...you know? Without having to worry about people giving comments beyond "Cool" or "I like the way you did ____." You know? It's like, I color lines as excersises, but with every intent of posting the results, but I'd never begin coloring if I knew I'd have to post in a new thread - which would mean I wouldn't post it because I like all my posts to be completely from scratch - and therefore I'd never do the excersise to begin with because I knew I wouldn't post it...

I hope you get me.

Maybe divide it into seperate threads: "Clean Lines" and "Line Colors"

Or something.

[Doppleganger]

I agree with Xion here. While the current thread is a bit messy, making it mandatory for someone to open a new thread to display line arts is a bit much I'd say. Have two threads for coloring/lines would be a great solution to that. Since most of the lineart that is colored, is done in spare time and for fun, it would be counter-intuitive to turn it into something more. There are already people who make individual topics for linearts they've colored, and I think those who do them seriously and want critique will do that.

[gliding]

interesting how doppleganger came up with a duality based idea o.0
lol.
But yea, I concur in respect to having a lineart and a coloring thread as separate- yet symbiotic threads. It would solve a lot of problems, and allow for a quick point of reference for viewing multiple renditions of the same lines, etc.

[The B.O.B.]

I vote that we do a poll on this decision. It would be most fair, in my opinion. The choices that I'm seeing so far:

1. Keep lineart thread the way it is. No Change.
2. Put 2 separate threads for lineart; colored, and pure lineart(that came out so racist...)
3. Lineart section is STRICTLY lineart, and any colored lineart MUST be placed in critique section, with deserved credit, or nowhere at all...


   To be honest, it seems like choice 2 has been suggested about 4-5 times already(my initial argument included, so you already know where my opinion lies, heh...). So I think it's time to decide now, if never, instead of twiddling our fingers and arguing. Maybe even more choices could be suggested if given enough time?

again, just a suggestion...

[Akira]

I also like the poll idea.

[Panda]

If anything, the options I would put are:

1- Restart the Lineart thread, everything works the same way, except now it is an activity. (Of course you can still post your colored stuff for critique in the pixel art board)
2- Only Lineart thread. (Post the lines you colored in either the pixel art board for critique, or the OT creativity thread for just showing off)


I wouldn't go with 2 threads. Why? Because, if we are doing that, we might aswell just have one, as it is right now, having the first post updated as linearts come up.

Though we could set up both lineart thread, and colored lineart thread as many of you want. BUT you will have to work your asses off, and start coloring linearts like demons, otherwise it goes down.    (And if I see someone simply filling lineart with the paintbucket and posting that, it will automatically go down)


[edit]:Oh and sure, I'll gather all the lineart.

[eck]

ive got a huge folder of linearts, that ive gathered from everywhere and anywhere.  you want me to upload it?

edit:  the folder has 189 linearts in it

[Lick]

There are always people who vote yes, and others who will say no. Just enforce the rule and let's see if it helps.

[Helm]

The reason I want to deal with this decisively is because I don't want Pixelation to be a 'relax, unwind, sloppily color some lines' type of place. Though I can't enforce absolute crit-dom, the lineart thread kinda stuck like a sore thumb, stickied at the top of a critique board. I don't want to accomodate for lazy work that doesn't get critiqued. We have the OT if people are BURNING to post sketches and stuff anyway. You say Xion you'd never do that little piece if you knew it would need its own thread and critique and all. You say you'd miss out on the excersize. And I say, what excersize? 5minute jobs aren't helping you get better, not unless you do 10 a day.

[Skull]

I like the idea of a Pure Lineart thread. Then, it'll be so much easier for someone to browse for lineart, as some pages have non to very little, and no-offence, but the sight of really poor fills isn't that great.

[Xion]

I don't do five minute jobs.

Ever.

I just think coloring linearts is a fun thing and should be kept fun, rather than made into a seriousness. Like, you see some nice lines that you think would look cool colored a certain way, or want to practice AA or dithering or a strange palette without looking for serious crits, you should just be able to post it without cluttering up the rest of the boards. Like all those different takes on that one chick by...uh...that one chick. The one with the sword and shield and megaman-esque feet. Those don't look like five-minute jobs (at least not all of them) but I'm not sure how many of them we'd've seen if the lineart thread was strictly for lines, and if people knew there'd be like six different threads open all displaying the same chick.

The reason I want to deal with this decisively is because I don't want Pixelation to be a 'relax, unwind, sloppily color some lines' type of place.

Why not? It's just one thread. I think it's better to be contained than have a bunch of colorings not worth their own thread cluttering up the rest of the forums. And, as has been said, if someone really wants critiques on their coloring, they're free to make their own topic.

[gliding]

The reason I want to deal with this decisively is because I don't want Pixelation to be a 'relax, unwind, sloppily color some lines' type of place.

Well, you even said yourself, It's a pocket community within that thread. If that is true, there should be no danger of that spreading throughout the entire forum. I condone the need for the lineart section's community to do more real pixel art outside of that thread; however this is another overly extreme way of doing it. No one ever complained about having a plce to goof off and get some relief from the atmosphere associated with posting your work in an individual thread. If people feel the need to have their "bad" stuff displayed openly for critique, they'd simply make a new thread in hopes of receiving C&C. There's simply no real need for such a drastic course of action for something so trivial.
/rant

[The B.O.B.]

   I agree. Plus critiquing someone whose piece derived from line art is kind of difficult. That is, if some mentions how something looks out of place in the base, the artist can immediately use an excuse of "well it's not my lines. I just colored them." I don't know if I should be ashamed or not, but I too found that the line art thread was more for fun, rather than serious critique. I find it more reasonable to focus critique on pieces made o-natural, by themselves. Call me laid back, but I think the line art thread was fine as is. If some people don't wish to publicize their works for critique, than let them lurk till they are ready. I'm not one to push people into battle with only a sword into their hand, without any armor, UNLESS they are willing. This analogy is basically how I'm reading this whole topic, though I may be reading into this a little too deep.
   
@Lick: A poll IS a decisive decision maker, when their are more than 2 options. You HAVE to choose one of the options-there is no "yes, or no" option when there are 3 or more to choose from.

[Rydin]

I kinda see myself leaning towards the two thread idea now that I've read what everybody's had to say.
But I say if it's going to stay the way it is now, perhaps a scheduled clean up of the thread would be beneficial--from what I can remember there are truck-loads of needless "you shouldn't hotlink" and one-liner "thanks" threads that could be removed and not noticed.

[gliding]

I couldn't have said it better B.O.B

[edit]

I just realized something. I still back what I said earlier regarding the current lines thread- that stays. I do,however, think it would be cool if we made another thread with a different aim. Perhaps, we could have an alternate lines thread devoted to critique on colour usage and shading in relation to the lineart. The pro aspect, lies in the fact that people have to think less about the composition of the piece, and they can focus more on their use of colour- a great way for practice and recieving constructive criticism. I often shy away from pixeling in terms of study, in that I spend so much time on lines that I begin to slack a bit on colour. This is just a nice way of giving people a chance to treat their palettes well, and glean knowledge from those more versed in the use of colour in pixel art. I'm sure you, helm, could offer a lot of critique in that area- whether you think so or not

[AdamAtomic]

Nobody, not even Helm, is saying that you shouldn't just color lineart for fun, or practice AA, or any of that stuff.  That's EXACTLY what its for.  Just from my perspective, since maybe 10% of the "i colored this" posts receive ANY feedback at all, why even post the work?  If you don't WANT serious feedback, and you aren't GETTING any feedback period, why bother?  That part of the thread just isn't serving much purpose, and it makes it harder to find lineart if you are in the coloring/practice mood.  While we're all in agreement that we should have a thread that is JUST the original linearts, I still disagree that we would for some reason need a whole thread dedicated to people posting their practice work without wanting any feedback, and accordingly no one giving feedback.  Just seems useless to me!

[Xion]

If you don't WANT serious feedback, and you aren't GETTING any feedback period, why bother?

Just cause.
I find it interesting looking, browsing all the different takes on stuff, and when I color lines I feel like I'm contributing to someone else's enjoyment of the same. Not everything has to be shown for serious feedback. I know this isn't a gallery forum, and I hope it never becomes one, but I still don't see the problem with, in one thread, posting art just because. I mean, this is a critique forum, but it's also an art forum, and art should be allowed to be posted for its own sake.

And as has been said many times before, if someone wants some serious feedback they can make a new thread.
I really don't see why this is such a big deal. I don't think anything is being hurt by the thread's existence.

[Panda]

Some questions for those of you who are against this, but if there was a second thread, would you be coloring enough lines to keep it alive? or are you complaining just because?
Also if you are coloring just for fun, and aren't looking for/willing to receive feedback, do you really have to show it? If nobody is going to care, you can keep stuff for yourself.
And then you still have the OT-thread to satisfy your showing needs, if you really have to.
If enough are colored, and posted, then someone could make a post with a collection of everything, but I wouldn't go further than that.

So yeah, strongly against a second thread for coloring lines.

[Mixel]

*puts up a noob hand* I think there's a few lessons which can be learnt from lots of people posting colours of the same lineart, as has happened frequently in the lineart thread.. It shows how much can be done from a simple base, and how even on tiny stuff - artists have distinct styles.. Nowhere else on the board do you get that in quite such a concentrated way, without having to surf n-million threads.

Depends how beginner-friendly the place is supposed to be really, as I think it's currently one of the most "accessible" (unscary) parts of the board.

It's definitely a fun topic to look through anyway, and I think it's currently pretty educational (if individual betterment is the main purpose of the board). Just because the artist did/didn't get crit doesn't mean others can't benefit from the pics.. They could always ask for C&C in the post itself if they do want it anyway.. (it wouldn't have a "No crit here plz!" rule or anything, surely)

I have no idea what I'd do if i were the admin in this situation though.. There seem to be merits to all the ideas.  Personally I think I like the 2 thread idea..  Maybe don't even sticky the "coloured in" thread though, as activity would likely keep it bumped.. (?)

[huZba]

I like the lineart thread for all the different takes of the same linearts. Very different views on the same piece can be very enlightening. Personally i got a lot of "i-never-thought-of-that" feelings each time a new coloring is posted. So if i post a lineart, i get to see a take on the picture that is outside of my head and completely colored based on what the other artist sees, in contrast to what i thought of when i drew the lineart. I also like the more relaxed feel of the thread. It is a bit too random at times, have to agree with that. Maybe keep it at it is, maybe restart it and enforce some rules to make it a bit more serious?

[Helm]

Activities are usually supposed to help people learn, not just promote the social aspect of the boards. Coloring in lineart won't be made into an activity thread unless it promotes learning. Xion says 'just 'cause', and while I do agree we need some sort of outlet for 'just cause' talk and art (it's the two OT threads) we don't need a PROMINENT, STICKIFIED HUGE THREAD of 'just 'cause' at the top of our critique board. It just sends off the wrong vibe.

I suggest this: we make a Lineart Thread in activities forum, stickified, strictly regulated so there's only lineart in it. We allow people to post critique or edit other people's lineart for critique purposes, but no colors. We make a 'pixel doodle' stricky thread in the general forum, not only for color-ins but for any sort of half-finished or not ambitious pieces of pixel art people can post to showcase, or to ask someone else to finish for them, or whatever.

This sounds reasonable to as-of-before-this-post dissenters?

[Gil]

It sounds perfect and wonderful. If it turns into a junk thread, you can always close it.

[Xion]

Sounds good.

[The B.O.B.]

(puts down pitch fork and flames...HESITANTLY...)

I accept your compromise, outlander...

[Sharm]

Sounds good to me.

[Generic]

After reading through the whole discussion I'd have to agree with your final conclusion, Helm. Sounds like a fine idea to me.

[AdamAtomic]

yep sounds great!

[Rydin]

Yeah, would give a good spot for disowned works-in-progress.  Ace solution Helm  .

[Helm]

I'm glad we seem to have come to an amicable solution without me having to banish any of you to the embroidery dungeon...

[flaber]

i agree with that final idea.
The lineart thread is becoming rather disorganized too - its hard to find the lineart.

Id almost suggest - that for the lineart thread, have a mod put all the new lineart on the first post - edit each time a new lineart is added, then delete that post.
That way we dont have to search the whole thread.
Keep them all on one post - anyone can post a new lineart, but then it gets added to the main post and deleted from the single individuals post.
just a suggestion.

however, are we still allowing linearts that had time spent on them and effort to be put up in the main section for critique? I know atleast for me there have been a few things iv put some good effort into, and id hate to loose it just to a 'for fun' thread.

[Helm]

Obviously yes as long as lineart credit is given.

[The B.O.B.]

Maybe on the main line-art page, we could start a-new, and after each person submits line art, it can be placed on the front page in an organized fashion. For example:

front page/first post of line art thread: blank*
 
Stwelin makes a post in the thread with line art; magical admin force copies line art into first page of line art thread

front page/first post of line art thread:
   >> Artist credit: Stwelin
        >>(Stwelin's line art)

Panda makes a post in the thread with line art; magical admin force copies line art into first page of line art thread   

front page/first post of line art thread:
   >> Artist credit: Stwelin
        >>(Stwelin's line art)
   >>Artist credit: Panda
        >>(Panda's line art)

Stwelin makes another post in the thread with line art; magical admin force copies line art into first page of line art thread

front page/first post of line art thread:
   >> Artist credit: Stwelin
        >>(Stwelin's line art)
        >>(Stwelin's 2nd line art)
   >>Artist credit: Panda
        >>(Panda's line art)

etc.

This would be fairly organized so people wouldn't have to read through the comments to get through to the icing of the cake. However, this is most definitely a burden on whoever undertakes the task of adding it into front page. It's either that, or maybe an archived file for each member's line work. I don't know, I'm sure you guys will churn out something good for us. God speed, mules, God speed...

[setz]

We make a 'pixel doodle' stricky thread in the general forum, not only for color-ins but for any sort of half-finished or not ambitious pieces of pixel art people can post to showcase, or to ask someone else to finish for them, or whatever.

I love that idea.

[Xion]

...Id almost suggest - that for the lineart thread, have a mod put all the new lineart on the first post - edit each time a new lineart is added, then delete that post.
That way we dont have to search the whole thread.
Keep them all on one post - anyone can post a new lineart, but then it gets added to the main post and deleted from the single individuals post.
just a suggestion.

You're gettin' slow, B.O.B.

The original mod poster's post can be edited by other mods like the mods edit other peoples' posts, right? So I don't see any reason for all that to fall to one person. Maybe just like, once a week, have some mod gather up all the new lines and do as Flaber/B.O.B. suggested.

[The B.O.B.]

You're gettin' awesome, B.O.B.

The original mod poster's post can be edited by other mods like the mods edit other peoples' posts, right? So I don't see any reason for all that to fall to one person. Maybe just like, once a week, have some mod gather up all the new lines and do as our master ,B.O.B., suggested.

Heh, village idiots rejoice! Actually, I did read Flaber's post. I just thought it would be nice to have almost like an mock archive of linearts underneath it's respected owner. I don't think Flaber mentioned that, but yeah, we pretty much mean the same thing. And by the by, I'm not getting slow, I am slow. El Bobslow, if you will...
Still though, I'm wondering how all of this will be put into effect.

[flaber]

hehe
i pretty much meant exactly what you said there BOB
way to take the credit
icing on the cake.

i do the baking and you put the sprinkles on.
brilliant - great team work...
im almost getting this feeling i should collab with you
haha

[Panda]

Maybe on the main line-art page, we could start a-new, and after each person submits line art, it can be placed on the front page in an organized fashion. For example:
etc, etc...

I already did something like that two days ago (It is in the admin board) though the lines are posted as links.
There were about 286 or so lines in total on the old thread, so yeah, would take ages to have them all load.

[Akira]

We make a 'pixel doodle' stricky thread in the general forum, not only for color-ins but for any sort of half-finished or not ambitious pieces of pixel art people can post to showcase, or to ask someone else to finish for them, or whatever.

I love that idea.

I too, love that idea.

[Darien]

I see we now have a colored line art thread.  What happened to the doodle idea?

[Helm]

Oh, we might as well edit that info in that thread.