AuthorTopic: Invoicing  (Read 7577 times)

Offline Conzeit

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Invoicing

on: April 11, 2007, 03:10:26 pm
Ok, so we all know there are a few regulars here who get online jobs, hence our employment section.
I figure everyone has to send some kind of invoice. I do it by reporting how much hours have been spent on a given animation. I have always used "allnetic working time tracker" and it tracks time just fine, but freeware versions have no way to directly "export" an invoice, never the less it gives me a security about what I'm charging to my client.

I was just wondering what (if) anyone else uses and how they feel about it.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2007, 07:13:38 am by Conceit »

Offline AdamAtomic

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Re: Invoicing

Reply #1 on: April 11, 2007, 06:09:51 pm
don't charge your clients hourly unless you dislike them and don't want to work for them anymore.

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Invoicing

Reply #2 on: April 12, 2007, 07:10:01 am
ok.....I accept your advice

...except you dont really justify it at all, and..you dont really give any alternative.

how do YOU do it? it's a little self important to just come in implying my way is annoying as hell and then flutter off.

Offline Akira

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Re: Invoicing

Reply #3 on: April 12, 2007, 09:39:26 am
I prefer to charge people on a per piece basis. mainly because i've had problems in the past with the client not believing how much time is spent on a piece and stuff like that. i guess your time tracker would solve this problem. so my invoice is based on the quote i give them after recieving the job info (unless of course there is a set price for the job too). if that makes sense.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2007, 09:41:21 am by Akira »
thanks Dogmeat!

Offline ndchristie

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Re: Invoicing

Reply #4 on: April 12, 2007, 11:50:40 am
Never work hourly for anything except overtime at your day job.  Everytime you are on a clock, people will think you are dawdling for 99% of the time even if you have a webcam that shows you working on it for twice as many hours as you charge for.  Instead, always estimate how much you want to make per hour, and name your price before you start based on how long you think it will take you.*  Both parties feel a lot better with that more definate agreement.  Also, this is how most (all?) of the big companies do their contracts, so it's good to get used the the system.

*not sure how long it will take?  You'll learn it pretty quick, and it will vary.  Aim high at first because most are likely to underestimate anyway.  If you haven't used all the time you thought you would, you can either turn it in an take the extra money, which is expected, or you can do the right thing and pour the rest of your heart in to make sure it's quality stuff and build a reputation as someone who earns their pay and works hard.
A mistake is a mistake.
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The same mistake three or more times is a motif.

Offline AdamAtomic

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Re: Invoicing

Reply #5 on: April 12, 2007, 04:53:34 pm
only thing I can think of to add is that you need to also budget in redo's of perfectly good art that just isn't quite what the client wants, so "aim high" is definitely good advice!

Offline Frychiko

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Re: Invoicing

Reply #6 on: April 13, 2007, 07:08:26 am
Long time no see, Conceit!

The advice given that you should not work on an hourly basis is bollocks. Yes, usually with big companies you have no choice, but sometimes start-ups and individuals prefer to work on an hourly basis. Sometimes I prefer working on an hourly basis, sometimes I prefer working on a fixed price, it depends on my availability at the time, how experienced I am with the type of project (and thus how well I can give a quote). You may want to do hourly first then switch to a fixed payment.

Regarding your original question,I've only had to send an invoice 2 times within 6 or so years out of all the jobs, and I've managed to get my payment without an invoice... but the only thing I needed was my ABN number... In Australia I had to register a company in my name, and provide my business number. Probably depends what country you're in.

Regarding the day job/overtime remark, many people don't have a choice about whether they get paid hourly or paid a salary at their day job, unless they quit, but how realistic is that?

« Last Edit: April 13, 2007, 07:19:49 am by Frychiko »
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Offline AdamAtomic

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Re: Invoicing

Reply #7 on: April 13, 2007, 04:06:35 pm
Good reasons not to charge hourly:

1 - If you work too fast you'll be cheating yourself
2 - If you work too slow you'll be cheating your client
3 - Many clients will require assloads of paperwork documenting the time spent working, which wastes EVERYONE's time

I've not yet worked for hourly in the game art world, and all of my clients have expressed revulsion and disgust at the very mention of hourly.  I've been in discussions for doing hourly programming work before, but that was a very special case between friends and old employers, etc, and would have been in-house.  So no, generally speaking, avoiding hourly is not bollocks.  Yes, you can do it in special cases but it depends very much on the client and the job, and I would consider it very carefully before heading down that path!

Offline AdamTierney

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Re: Invoicing

Reply #8 on: April 13, 2007, 04:25:49 pm
Although I personally prefer per-item pricing, there are plenty of circumstances where hourly works better, particularly when you're sort of developing art longterm for a game. For example, on most games I've assigned artists who do sprites or animations per-piece pricing (one sprite model, one animation, etc). But things like menus, where it's a wide variety of pieces that have to be done, and usually a lot of adjustments and additions, it's easier to hourly the artist instead of constantly having to think out each piece's price.

Per-piece pricing rewards the speedy, but ultimately if you have a comfortable hourly rate going, and you're in a good relationship with a developer that's offering constant work, that's a pretty good spot to be in.

Offline AdamAtomic

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Re: Invoicing

Reply #9 on: April 13, 2007, 06:13:09 pm
Yes that's a good point, I have not been fortunate enough to score a deal like that but i see what you guys mean now, thanks!