NES mockup - new screen

[ptoing]

Felt the itch for some NES mockup action and this is what I got after a decent amount of fiddling about. Good fun I have to say.

[Grindie]

Looks excellent. I'd play it!

[Xion]

Aaaawwweeesssooommmeee...
But...
Is that steam shooting from the pipes...or a flower?
Are those glowy-eyed (skulls?) in the BG enemies? They'd be real nuisance to deal with, 'specially if the player's periph' isn't that good.
Are those orange lines by the pipes valves or reflections? Either way they look wierd. If they're valves, I think they'd lok better if they were actually on the face of the pipe. If they're reflections, then they're off.
Not too fond of the green enemies but that's just personal preference. I have a thing against heads on legs.

But yeah, I'd most definately play this.

[ptoing]

Good point's Xion. The flowersteam would look nicer in animation I guess, but I might redo it.
The dark grey things are enemies. But they would be the annoying, low energy fast bat kind of enemies that almost die from looking at them.

The orange things are valves and I made them like that due to palette reasons. You can have 4 palettes for the background, each 3 colours and a global bgcolour which is black in my case. The colours in these palettes are not interchangable. A tile can not mix colours from both palettes. So I did not want to waste a palette, even tho I am only using 3 atm out of 4, but the pipe and woodthingy ones are quite close. Valves are same as wood.

I will prolly do more mockups of this "game" just to annoy people because it will prolly never ever be made

[Fry]

That's very excellent.. I especially love the background and overall composition of the pipes and platforms.  The main character kind of lacks appeal though, he just doesn't seem to fit the environment and appears like a lot less thought went into him than the rest.  I really love the Klap-Trap style enemies though, looks like it would be a fun game. 

-Fry

[RhysD]

Hehe the main guy looks like the main character from this Indy game called "The Underside" http://www.superfundungeonrun.com/insignificantstudios/index.php

[kakikukeko]

wow that's nice!!
one of the best BG I saw for a NES ! 
I'm not too fond of the character though ^^
anyway... I have a bith the same crits as Xion about the orange lines.. I really didn't get that it was a valve..
I didn't really understand what you said about the palette limitation/tile or what, sorry if I'm wrong, but can't you do something like this?

[AdamAtomic]

no you couldn't   you could probably get away with something simliar, you'd just have to use only the palette used on the wooden thingies (which is the palette he used on the crank/wheels).  personally a mix of both through the level would probably look best!

[.TakaM]

very cool, kinda reminds me of cavestory

[Sharm]

Fantastic background.  If the valves aren't reading as such, why not just drop them?  You should add a HUD, add to the frustration of those who can't play it.  (For anyone I'm confusing with the use of acronyms, HUD stands for Heads Up Display.  The health meter and such.)

[Xion]

very cool, kinda reminds me of cavestory

I knew someone was going to say that. I just knew it...
In fact, I was going to say that, but...I didn't want to.

[Lee N]

Hehe the main guy looks like the main character from this Indy game called "The Underside" http://www.superfundungeonrun.com/insignificantstudios/index.php

And The Underside is a ripoff of Cave Story..

[Gil]

Hey, that mockup reminds me of.... SEXY!

We love you ptoing

[ndchristie]

cavestory

I dont think this was at all inspired by cave story.  It's not like he was playing that game for several hours before he started this 

ptoing, you heard most of my thoughts earlier, but i've got a couple new ones ^^

I like the green that you'ld had in the earlier mockups on the blue ramp, the white seems a little bit stark and the gree had fun lighting to it.

love the way the bg pipes came out, it's a nice compliment that doesnt harm readability while filling nicely.

you could make valves face the viewer by making them sprites, but something tells me that you are more interested in following restrictions in this piece than you are in working around them.  IMO the sideways valves look good already

[ptoing]

Hehe, yes I played Cave Story for about 5 hours or longer that day I would say, so yeh, there might be similarities, tho I have to say I don't see them too much. Cavestory has way more obvious tiling and it might as well be the fact that CS looks like a spunked up NES game of sorts most of the time.

Adarias: Hm, I see what you mean about the highlights, they are not fully white atm, I might revise them tho. About the valves, sprites are precious, you can only have 8 per scanline or you get dropouts, and I only have 1 spritepalette left for other enemies. And be assured that I will do further gfx for this. And yes, I want to have this look so that it could actually run on a proper NES technically.

Hm, he does look a bit like the guy from The Underside, I think I will have to redesign him towards less generic >:0

[QuickSilva]

I really like this, it has a very unique feel to it. I always like your work anyway but at the moment I am hooked on the old NES style games. As a matter of fact I have just started work programming a NES style platformer for the PC. The game is planned to be very faithful to the original NES system and will also feature authentic NES music, controls etc... The game will be free or very low cost. Would you be interested in making your mockup into this game? I would be more than willing to provide you with a one screen test that includes some of your graphics in action if you need convincing?

If you are not interested then thats fine Anyway, great job on these. Really works well.

Jason.

[ptoing]

Check your pms QuickSilva

[philipptr]

makes me want to try myself at making a mockup with NES restrictions..
and totally makes me want to play this game

The only thing that imo needs a bit work is the steam. You've seriously managed to achieve something great with these restrictions

[AlienQuark]

This mockup makes me question WHY THE HELL other NES games didn't look as nice and polished as this does. I mean, if this is sticking to all NES restrictions, why the HELL were there so many god awful looking NES games? Maybe my memory is decieving me or something, but this looks way nicer than a good number of Nintendo games I remember from my youth.

In other words this rocks my socks. Hands down.

[Helm]

check out Batman for the NES too, by Hudson, for how NES games can look. It's down to skill and dealing with the restrictions in a smart manner. There's not many people around now that can do this like Ptoing, and there weren't very many then either.

It's the same with most old machines, why THE HELL don't all c64 games look like they could, why don't early EGA games look like they could, so on, so on.

[Lee N]

check out Batman for the NES too, by Hudson

You mean SunSoft.

[ptoing]

Changed some small bits, added HUD, added a slime enemy, and frontal valves

[Kennethfejer]

looks very cool!

[robotriot]

I have no real crits here either, this is very cool and doesn't look a lot like NES, I like it! More of the same please.

If I had to say anything, it would probably be that the valve on the foreground pipe *could* be one shade darker, since it's in the pipe's shadow. But that's nitpicking really ^^

[ptoing]

the valve on the foreground pipe *could* be one shade darker, since it's in the pipe's shadow.

Haha, I actually thought about that and was like, meh, extra tile, can't be arsed. But if this game does get done I would prolly do it.

And something new, still wip a bit.


Colourlimitations intact tho this one prolly has way to many tiles for the real NES. But if I will make this game for the PC in NES style, tilecount and max sprites on screen and per scanline would not be thinking about.

[Cow]

Wow, those rocks are beautiful. I also like what you did with the outline around the title.

Inspiring to the max.

[Panda]

The title screen looks neat.
As for the mockup, it looks better now with the edits. It is nice that you can see the bat creatures now.
Maybe on the slime dude you could play with the light green and add some pixels in the dark area to show that it is somewhat more gelatinous.

[QuickSilva]

Love that title screen. The main character has much more charm now. Can`t wait to see more...

Jason.

[Anders_A]

check out Batman for the NES too, by Hudson, for how NES games can look. It's down to skill and dealing with the restrictions in a smart manner. There's not many people around now that can do this like Ptoing, and there weren't very many then either.

Now that's a big part of the explanation, but also almost all nes developers had to deal with stricter restrictions then ptoing have used.

The NES can't by design set the palette per background tile as ptoing has done, it can only set it per 4 background tiles (that is per 16x16 square consisting of 4 8x8 tiles). It is possible to set the palette per tile by using special hardware in the game cartidge, but hardware for this didn't even exist until 1989, and even then it was way too expensive for most game makers to use. It was only used in a handful of games released outside Japan of which Castlevania 3 is the most well known.

This is why most NES game levels are made up of 16x16 blocks.

EDIT: When using the MMC5, as the hardware chip mentioned above is called, you can also use up to 16384 background tiles at once instead of the standard 256. so the only problem with that awesome title screen is the one 8x8 tile that has too many colors (on the upper part of the D), but that can easily be fixed by using a sprite overlay.

EDIT2: That title screen can most likely be displayed on a NES without any special hardware, if you switch tileset mid frame. and then use sprite overlays on the spots where the palette restrictions are violated.

[philipptr]

I really like the title screen. great work with these few colors.
about fitting in nes "vram": I think there are 455 tiles:

maybe I am wrong.

[AdamAtomic]

tile vram only allows for 256 (which can be indexed with a single 8-bit number) - MMC5 has a 16-bit lookup.  So while you could fit all those tiles in there, you'd have to use sprites to display half of them I think, and you can only show 8 sprites per line....

[Anders_A]

The MMC5 has 1kb of ram inside it which is used for the extra bits of the tile number, and the extra attribute bits.

EDIT: I'm sorry, I don't intend to derail this thread about your beautiful art into a NES hardware discussions. I'll stop now unless any questions comes up (I've done a fair deal of NES programming).

[ptoing]

Very interesting info there, Anders_A. Thanks a lot
Castlevania 3 does not look like it has a per tile palette setting, still looks like 16x16 blocks.

I already knew about that vram thing and that you can only have 256 tiles (and i said i would ignore that when i posted the titlescreen)

here would be a fix for the 16x16 thing. I think if I do this game for the PC I will just assume that it's using an MMC5

[Faceless]

If you can get this working under the Nes' hardware restrictions, you should try and get it published on the VC.
With the limited number of titles available (so far), and it being an original game, the Nintendo fanboy's would eat it up, and you'd end up making a pretty penny.

[ptoing]

If it would run on VC i guess it would have to be actual NES 6502 code, ain't gonna happen. And I doubt that Nintendo would do it anyway, so meh.

[Faceless]

Nintendo said some time ago that they wanted to promote the use of the VC to small time developers. I don't know if that's still the case, but it's worth keeping in mind.

[ptoing]

Would need to know what language it needs to be coded in and what the libraries are and stuff. As long as those are not out yet there is not much point in it.

[Gil]

I have been dying to program a NES game, if I ever get round to creating a platformer game, I'll be sure to let you know....

I'm trying to get a better grasp on x86 assembler first...

[ptoing]

The NES has 6502 asm, not x86, NOOB!

[Gil]

I said first. I'm well aware of the internal structure of the NES, and I have already programmed some stuff for it...

Check this out:

http://neshla.sourceforge.net/

[ptoing]

Eh, so why would you need x86 asm then, if you can use C?

Anyway.

[Gil]

Maybe give the head some horizontal movement too? That or no asynchronous movement at all, it's a bit confusing like this.

The reason that I'm learning x86 first is because I'm writing a compiler, and it compiles to C right now. I want to try and get it to compile to assembler level...

[ptoing]

horizontal movement of heads is overrated. DO you move your head horizontally when you run? I doubt it. And the thing I did in the headbob I really like

[Cow]

DO you move your head horizontally when you run?

I do. I just want to fit in sooo bad. ;_; ;_;

I don't really like the frame(s) where the arms and legs are perfectly horizontal. The run even looks nice by just deleting those frames.

Oh, and I like the headbob as well. 

[Omenith]

I don't think the cycle is confusing at all. The frames where the arms and legs are perfectly horizontal are key to the character; taking these out would make it so dry. HE LOVES BEING A SHAPELY(pun?) BEING, can't you accept him for that? Okay, maybe I have some issues but the point still stands! Keep rolling with this, pto, I got your back (for now... muahah).

Err.. I can't add anything to VC and x86 gibberish..

[ptoing]

Silly animation

[philipptr]

haha, nice animation
actually that would be possible on a NES with having two 8*16 sprites (since it's so wide) for the green things animation, wouldn't it?
anyways, I don't want to lead this thread into a NES discussion

[ZoSo]

I really like how the legs bend on the running animation . I love your work, 

[Stwelin]

I spotted this over at www.tigsource.com, you got featured sometime between when i was browsing tigs at school and when i got home. Anyway, great great stuff, elegant in it's simplicity. I hope that that making it into a game works out.

[ptoing]

Haha yeh, I posted the stuff in a thread on the tigs forum in a thread about interest on NES-style games. FUCKING TIGS PIMPS!

[ptoing]

Whee!!!

[ndchristie]

woo, changes!

i like ti a lot, tho i wonder if the greens couldnt be a little more blue tinted, to provide better definition and complement?

v. awesome

[The B.O.B.]

   I like this stage 10x more than the previous. The ground tiles are sweet. The cacti enemies are a wee bit weak in design, though. Not that big a fan of the green colored pricks/needles. I think replacing them with a couple of black pixels, or whatever you used for the darkest color (the outline), would be best. I would also give them some type of cacti rose as a nose, or something( I'm sure you could pull it off, despite restrictions. Red isn't that hard to incorporate as a flower, now is it?). They just don't obtain the simplistic, adorable quality as the U fellow. Still though, this looks like something I would play...Keep em' coming...

[Sharm]

Cactus enemies!   This just gets better and better.  The ground tiles are fabulous, they look more on purpose than limited.  Going from this to the underground shot might be jarring though.

[Froli]

Looking at this gives me a lot of Nostalgia <feels young again>. Amazing stuff there Ptoing

[.TakaM]

very very cool stuff ptoing, I really hope we can play this eventually

[Fry]

Wow, this is looking excellent Ptoing.

I do agree with Adarias about perhaps making it read better by making the greens a bit more blue tinted.  Although I think the way you have it now perhaps looks more authentic NES'ish.

Can't wait to see more, you could easilly fool people who don't know better into thinking this was an actual NES game.   

-Fry

[Lackey]

Hm, this one is less striking than the first one I think.  Maybe higher contrast?

Colour choice is a little ugly here, but it looks hotter.

And other, blue-skyed.

I think you should do something about the cacti at least.  Oh yeah, and cool that we're using the same NES palette.

[Xion]

dude...ptoing...
are you sure those are NES restrictions? It so looks like you had all the freedom in the world. I only don't like the bottom left part of the overhang. It looks very bland.
but...
You are sooo much less than three.

[Anders_A]

I noticed your mockups are 256x224 pixels, the resolution of the NES is 256x240. The reason some emulators cut of 8 pixels on the top and bottom of the frame is because older tv sets cut off some (approx 8 pixels i guess). The 16x16 palette grid is aligned in the 256x240 frame though.

[ptoing]

Anders: well not really the TV cuts it off. The NTSC NES variants (US and JAP) are only 224 high because of the different cycles, so basically they mask them. And as I said before, I don't give a flying fuck here about the 16x16 thing at all.

Xion: not 100% NES restrictions, but almost, could be mended, but I don't wanna.

Lackey: I like the first one, tho I kinda like my version as well because that way the horizon looks really faint and far. Will prolly experiment more.

[ptoing]

Some new stuff and some changes on old stuffs.

[Fry]

Wow, that is looking absolutely fantastic. Really loving the castle, the underwater one looks somewhat bare at the moment but I like where it's heading.

I think the castle is my favourite right now, however I really enjoy the original as well.

-Fry

[ptoing]

Ta, I am partial to the castle myself
Forgot to mention that the underwater one is WIP.

[The B.O.B.]

Is there a specific reason why you took the dark shade for the killer cacti-guy's pricks/needles off, and replaced them with the lightest green again? The light green specs tend to blend in with the bright background
I also agree with the Fry-man. The castle stage looks the best so far. And if you won't animate the knight fellow, then I will.

   As for the underwater Wip: I really enjoy the U character in a scuba suit. Add's a sorta' mini-realism factor to it. I would suggest putting two types of bubbles: one for the active characters (sprites), and some background bubbles that zig/zag upward. Also, the lines that represent the farthest reef/underwater cliff seems strange. I would try to add some slight dithering on the furthest reefs(I know there's a specific word for underwater ground and cliffs. Is it trenches?). The light shining through the ocean needs work to be honest. I would try lengthening every other beam of light in the tiles, and shortening the other beams( hope that makes sense  )  Ahh and seaweed in the background. Just a teeny weeny bit of it. Not to much (maybe two seaweeds in the background would do the trick).

Despite those suggestions, this is looking uber simple-awesome. I wants mo'!

[ptoing]

Hah, about the catus guys, that was a mistake because I resaved all the files from an animation (I have all screens in an anim so i can cycle through them easy and copy paste stuff) and it had the old version of the. So that is fixed.

The underwater scene is heavy wip. There will be dithering are refinement and stuff. And I will animate all the enemies at some point I want to make this thing a game!

[QuickSilva]

This is looking sooo good. As an owner of an original NES I can tell you that you have managed to capture everything that made the system so appealing to me in the first place. Fantastic work. The screens shout out "come and play with me!" Excellent!

Jason.

[Faceless]

Have you considered using U-head's resemblence to a magnet as an actual gameplay element?
The castle scene looks fantastic.

[Rerg1]

Ptoing great work!, I think you've made the colours to good use and you've made a hell of atmosphere! 

[Sharm]

It's all droolworthy.  I will save these screens and learn from them. 

[Anders_A]

Anders: well not really the TV cuts it off. The NTSC NES variants (US and JAP) are only 224 high because of the different cycles, so basically they mask them. And as I said before, I don't give a flying fuck here about the 16x16 thing at all.

I've looked into this some now (talking to people doing nes development that actually owns an ntsc nes and tv) and no, the nes does not cut anything off, but the tv set doesn't display about 12-16 lines in the top of the frame and about 2 lines in the bottom. A newer tv might display those (which will make some nes games look weird since they might have garbage in the top of the frame). And I imagine some games turn off rendering during vblank and then turn it on after those top lines to get some extra time in which gfx-ram can be written. (It can only be written to during vblank unless rendering is turned off)

The key here is that I was wrong about the palette grid not being aligned if you use 256x224. It will be since almost all rows are cut off at the top.

I love those mockups btw. Damn, I've been wanting to make a demoscene like demo for the nes for some time now. If I could draw stuff as good as that it would be done long ago.

[yosh64]

hey

I just wanted to say that I really like the mood of these, and your color choice, exceptional work ^_^.

I really like the underground and castle mockups . Hmm, I do feel something is missing from the desert mockup? not quite sure... maybe bones of a goat? or something withered away to emphasize the heat? or maybe it's the bareness of the brown to the right, under the cliff.

I look forward to the complete underwater mockup .

cya

[Icedemon]

yea but it says expect a demo soon, and i thought you weren't making it into a game...?  either way, its awesome stuff!!