AuthorTopic: [WIP] Starting From Step One  (Read 29309 times)

Hawk

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[WIP] Starting From Step One

on: March 15, 2007, 05:54:27 am
Original


You may all be wondering what the heck the above is, and I'll tell you. The above is a G.U.D.N. tower from a gaming project that I'm leading called, "Lunix Palvitier™", a high-tech/space themed game series consisting of 4 planned game sequels:

Lunix Plavitier (2D)
Lunix Palvitier (3D)
Lunix Palvitier (3D)
Lunix Palvitier: Nebula Tactics (3D)

The above is from the sub-game in works the 3D version and is generally a outlined mock-up of that building model. Anyway I would like to say that I'll be posting updates on this more than likely hourly except for sleeping, and you all can expect probably something very similiar in quality to that of my current avatar. Right now the style you see portrayed as my avatar, futuristic fantasy (heavy realism impressionism), is the pixel style I've decided to adopt and will generally be the foundation style of all my works whether buildings or otherwise. Feel free to critique, edit critiques, and comment once I get some work done on these lines, but try to refrain from doing so before hand. (Keep in mind this will require a high color count to acheive the idolized style.)

Current State Of Peice



Update Log
Original Version ~ Simiple crude section outlines, and yes that in the green is going to end up a bush. Little light beacon detail at tip of wireless beacon (top of creation). 6 Colors
Update 1 ~ Started to work on the beacon & beacon station itself, this small outline is rather hard to work with yet it allows me to make a good use of my colors. 18 Colors
Update 2 ~ Major edit, took about 15 minutes from start & loading, etc. It's the basic panels for the peice.
Update 3 ~ In the process of adding the side panel.
Update 4 ~ Quick coloring on remaining areas. Going to add speck detail, and kill off some colors.
Update 5 ~ Decided to change around the shape, and style so that it would be a bit more tangible.
Update 6 ~ Fixed the faint issue, some outline issues, blending, and just some general lighting.
Update 7 ~ Here is an update. I did a few changes, and basically just added that line to make it have depth. Changed the color scheme (trying to go back to original). I did some spot checker texurizing. Now some insight on this update, the side panel that you see on the side I turned into a circuit board, or just simply a display screen, and I tried to heavily influence the cool-blue electric tone.
Update 8 ~ The update has alot of dithering and I removed/redid some of the lines, and added some contrast. It looks better and cleaner than before in my perspective.
Update 9 ~ Cut down the color count heavily, and did more reformation on the lines.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2007, 06:39:11 pm by Hawk »

Offline Frychiko

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #1 on: March 15, 2007, 07:02:06 am
How long did it take you to do this WIP? I could do it in under a minute. I have nothing to critique at the moment, too early.

Congratulation this story is happy end. Thank you. - Ghost & Goblins

Offline Panda

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #2 on: March 15, 2007, 08:04:03 am
Also, the irony of telling someone to post a piece that shows effort while you post this.
Maybe it is time you watch what you say when posting around.

Offline ptoing

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #3 on: March 15, 2007, 12:45:37 pm
heavy realism impressionism

I think activation of brain is in order.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Helm

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #4 on: March 15, 2007, 12:51:14 pm
Good luck with the piece. At the time it's too early to critique.

Offline Grindie

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #5 on: March 15, 2007, 02:36:37 pm
You may all be wondering what the heck the above is, and I'll tell you. The above is a G.U.D.N. tower from a gaming project that I'm leading called, "Lunix Palvitier™", a high-tech/space themed game series consisting of 4 planned game sequels:

Lunix Plavitier (2D)
Lunix Palvitier (3D)
Lunix Palvitier (3D)
Lunix Palvitier: Nebula Tactics (3D)

Did you really trademark that name or did you just stick the trademark on to make it more "professional"? Also, I'll give you a month's wages if you actually complete these 4 planned sequels.

Offline AdamAtomic

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #6 on: March 15, 2007, 04:10:55 pm
That's a huge bush

Hawk

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #7 on: March 15, 2007, 04:21:30 pm
That's a huge bush



It won't seem that large, I'm going to hint towards a tree though. Mind that this tree is ontop of the cell tower, it's because of an Co2 recycling act innated because the percentage of vegation vs metropolitian areas.

@Helm, thank you and sorry I couldn't post more of it sooner, got tied up with directing a co-worker on the 2D project.

@Ptoing, actually that is the problem with this theme it's because there are limited to no references.

@Panda, hint at the phrase I posted:
Quote
Feel free to critique, edit critiques, and comment once I get some work done on these lines, but try to refrain from doing so before hand. (Keep in mind this will require a high color count to acheive the idolized style.)

@Frychiko, about a few minutes. Trying to make a tiny sized model, and then I'm going to make a large model, have to make sure it looks realistic and not just flat.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2007, 04:32:24 pm by Hawk »

Offline Panda

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #8 on: March 15, 2007, 04:39:28 pm
Yeah, I'm aware you are still working on it. But what made you think his animated lines weren't a WIP either? Did you think about that when posting on the other thread?
Acting like an ass won't lead you far.

Also, this whole thing looks like it uses 6 colors (at most) yet you are using 18.
A good use of your colors you say? Honestly I don't think so, you are not making the most of them.

Hawk

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #9 on: March 15, 2007, 05:10:25 pm
There was a difference, when you ask for critique on the apparent, you're going to get it. When you say wait awhile until there is something to critique, then that is when your going to get it. In addition I'm counting all of the colors, black, white, gray, dark grey, green, and all the colors I will come across. So yes the color count will be high, but the truth is, do you care about a number or do you care about the product?

Offline fil_razorback

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #10 on: March 15, 2007, 05:12:34 pm
So why did you post it if it's too early to critique ?

Offline robalan

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #11 on: March 15, 2007, 05:21:54 pm
In addition I'm counting all of the colors, black, white, gray, dark grey, green, and all the colors I will come across. So yes the color count will be high, but the truth is, do you care about a number or do you care about the product?
I don't care how many colors you use, so long as the colors are all useful.  The complaint people are bringing against you at the moment is that you have three times as many colors as are apparent, you've posted rough lineart that deserves no comment or critique, and you are acting a bit like a pompous ass in your posting.  I'd suggest waiting until you have something worth critiquing to post before you post it so you don't get reactions like you're getting.  You can post all the stages of progress if you want, but rough lines like this are kind of useless to post.  Just my two cents; good luck with the project.
Always remember: a preposition is not something you should end a sentence with.

Offline Doppleganger

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #12 on: March 15, 2007, 05:30:43 pm
Kind of off topic but you say we can expect something of similar quality to your avatar but, what do you base that on other than it being something you're striving for? Your avatar has over 9100 colors in it. Judging from the responses you're getting, your color use is already a bit overboard. Point being, I don't personally see your tower turning into a realistic building based on your other works and it's current state and I don't understand why you'd opt to use pixel art when the graphical style you're going for uses 9100 colors.

Offline Panda

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #13 on: March 15, 2007, 05:35:49 pm
There was a difference, when you ask for critique on the apparent, you're going to get it. When you say wait awhile until there is something to critique, then that is when your going to get it. In addition I'm counting all of the colors, black, white, gray, dark grey, green, and all the colors I will come across. So yes the color count will be high, but the truth is, do you care about a number or do you care about the product?

I'd rather fix something early than carrying an error until the end and having to rework stuff, so posting early WIPs is rather recommended.
But according to what you said, why are you posting something not yet crit worthy/something you don't want comments on yet? You might aswell keep to yourself until we can say something about it

As for Number vs Product, personally I don't care about either for this. But since you are posting on these forums for critique, I'll give the technique priority.
It just looks like you picked random colors out of a photo.
While right now we practically don't have any restriction, it kind of kills part of pixel art's nature (which in my opinion is to make the most out of the least, if you get what I mean)
But anyway good luck with further working.

Hawk

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #14 on: March 15, 2007, 06:03:35 pm
NP. Just wait about another 30-60 minutes. I'll be done.

~Alright, here is the base, I had to attend to something else, but I got to finish up the base within around 13 minutes.

« Last Edit: March 15, 2007, 07:59:34 pm by Hawk »

Offline Feron

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #15 on: March 15, 2007, 08:09:28 pm
What is it?

looks very blurry, lacks contrast, doesnt read very well ^^.

i'd lose the attitude aswell - telling others to put more effort in and you produce this shit.  Sorry man, but you top this years list of hypocrites.

Offline Sharm

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #16 on: March 15, 2007, 08:12:26 pm
Just curious, but why are you doing this as a pixel art?  It looks like you took a small section of a photograph and jpged it.  Doesn't that defeat the purpose of doing it pixel by pixel in the first place?

Hawk

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #17 on: March 15, 2007, 08:27:42 pm


Feron, read the original post it may help in the whole schism of things.

Sharm, typically if you were to do that then yes it would.

Offline philipptr

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #18 on: March 15, 2007, 08:33:57 pm

I'm not trying to be offensive but it doesnt seem to me like you really need the colors you're using at the moment. some have only very small difference in hue/saturation which isn't as visible to our eyes as difference in brightness. Also the pixels seem very randomly placed. In this state it looks totally like a color reduction piece. (I'm not saying that it is one, but you should really use the advantage to be able to place the pixels where you want them instead of having them in a random mess)

Offline JJ Naas

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #19 on: March 15, 2007, 08:39:48 pm
I'd like to see how this works in relation to the rest of the graphics in the game.

Hawk

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #20 on: March 15, 2007, 08:42:12 pm

I'm not trying to be offensive but it doesnt seem to me like you really need the colors you're using at the moment. some have only very small difference in hue/saturation which isn't as visible to our eyes as difference in brightness. Also the pixels seem very randomly placed. In this state it looks totally like a color reduction piece. (I'm not saying that it is one, but you should really use the advantage to be able to place the pixels where you want them instead of having them in a random mess)

No problem at all. I'm just using a few various colors just for the sake of complimentary. Also when I make this image a big large they will end up standing out. Though yeah, because everyone got so upset about the massive amount of colors I decided to take the lower road and conserve a few hues here and there.

~JJ Ahh, this peice is just practice. It just helps build up some attributes or generally the feel for the style, and gives me ideas for architypes, etc.

Offline Vale

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #21 on: March 15, 2007, 08:56:48 pm
I don't get what it is. Also, I don'tunderstand what is in your avater either. A tree and a building? This is really hard to read so far.

Hawk

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #22 on: March 15, 2007, 09:02:03 pm
I don't get what it is. Also, I don'tunderstand what is in your avater either. A tree and a building? This is really hard to read so far.

Read the first post for what this project is. My avatar is a building portion and a bush. 128 x 128 can only go so far.

Offline AdamAtomic

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #23 on: March 15, 2007, 09:36:54 pm
This does not seem to be in the same style of your avatar at all.  Your avatar uses simple shapes and large blobs of color, as well as a varied color ramp including pink lighting and nice blue shadows.  your piece so far appears to be dark grey and light grey, with no definition aside from a little bit of scribbling, and nothing to indicate that it is a building?  Also it appears to be cut off rather abruptly on the right side of the image.  It lacks a clear light source, interesting colors, contrast and helpful scale information such as windows or lines for the floors of the building.

EDIT - also, I should point out that the majority of pieces posted here are less than 128x128 and have no problem conveying a satisfactory amount of information.  Your avatar could easily be adapted to a 64x64 px image or smaller without sacrificing any required detail, and it could be done with 16 colors as well.

Hawk

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #24 on: March 15, 2007, 10:47:27 pm
I didn't say that I would be using the exact same color rubric or building ideals, just the coloring style. Anyway the base coloring is now done, just have to smack to actually adding detail, etc.



Also feel free to critique now, and make edits, etc.

Offline philipptr

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #25 on: March 15, 2007, 11:03:54 pm
imo
- add better (lightsource) (both sides of the building have the same brightness)
- clean the linework up. I don't know any architecture which has such broken lines in it
- use antialiasing and avoid just making a grey line between a very dark and a very bright area.

still not trying to be offensive, but maybe you should do something easier first and learn the basics of art and pixeling?

Hawk

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #26 on: March 15, 2007, 11:23:10 pm
...Go back to learning art? Hmm, years of 3D terrain modeling, general concept art, and around 2 years of leading gaming projects?  Hmm...wouldn't mind it if I actually could go back in time, then I may be able to see those whom have passed during that time period, but alas time ticks without discord. Though in response to learning pixel art, I don't care to learn what others have done and the guidelines they follow. Read one of my mottos in my signature, it may tell you something about me.

Offline Rynen10K

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #27 on: March 15, 2007, 11:24:21 pm
I hate to sound like every other post on here, but I'm still not sure I understand the style...

Couldn't you essentially get the same effect from shrinking down a higher quality 2D or 3D render?
It almost seems like pixelling a shrunken photo by hand...

Not trying to stop you or anything - it's your style, after all.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2007, 11:57:14 pm by Rynen10K »

Offline Grindie

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #28 on: March 16, 2007, 12:32:18 am
I've been to quite a few forums on this vast Internet and from the experience that I've gathered from my great travels, I've been able to deduce that THIS guy is a "joke account".

Right?

Am I right?

What do I win!?

Offline Sharm

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #29 on: March 16, 2007, 12:41:16 am
Learning what made other people's work great does not mean you have to make the same thing, or be the same type of artist.  It just means you learned something.  I like being different too, but I also think that you should know the rules before you break them, or you just end up being sloppy and using originality as an excuse.  I'm not saying that you're doing that here.  Just that you should really listen to the advice you're getting before you dismiss it.  Maybe even give it a try.  When it comes to art, learning another's style can only make your personal style better.

Offline Stwelin

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #30 on: March 16, 2007, 12:59:00 am
Feron, read the original post it may help in the whole schism of things.

A schism is a seperation, as in 'The Great Schism,' or seperation of the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches in 1054.
I think you were looking for the word 'gist,' as in 'the main point.'

Anyway, not to diverge too far off topic here...

The building, as stated before, uses too many colors. There is no reason to have colors in a pixel piece that vary in either hue, saturation, or value in such a little amount as the ones shown in the building you're working on here.

You can go ahead and try to justify it, but i believe i speak for the entire forum when i say it's just not pixel art in its current state.

Offline Helm

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #31 on: March 16, 2007, 01:02:41 am
Quote
years of 3D terrain modeling, general concept art, and around 2 years of leading gaming projects?

You seem to lack the artistic skill needed to lead game projects. Also your attitude is horrible. Please reconsider your usage of the forum. Your art suffers from very basic faults, but you don't seem to be in the right mindset to understand it. Your building is jagged and doesn't obey any appicable schema of perspective, the colors are random and messy, and generally you need to take critique if you hope to do better, and take it humbly without much talk about your 'experience'.

Please take what I said to heart. If this nonsense continues people will stop trying to help you altogether.

Offline setz

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #32 on: March 16, 2007, 01:04:41 am
Though in response to learning pixel art, I don't care to learn what others have done and the guidelines they follow.

So what you're saying is you don't care about pixel art?

To be honest I"m really having trouble trying to figure out what it is, it looks very flat and just like messy lines and shapes to me. Its very sloppy and needs a total re-work.

Quote from: Hawk
...Hmm, years of 3D terrain modeling, general concept art, and around 2 years of leading gaming projects...
If you want to learn and get better, the last way to do that is act like you know everything and are never wrong.

Man I feel like a parrot :/

Hawk

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #33 on: March 16, 2007, 01:06:26 am
Since people seem to be having difficulty on understanding I decided to change it to a rust rubric.



It's rather faded, but I went more onto the shape than anything else.

~Helm, it doesn't require art to lead a game. Also I'm frankly new to pixel art, as I've told those that I've talked to I can't do line art, and hense this is why I'm currently having issues getting a setting I like. My attitude, is just another story, people are upset because I write critiques with a tinge of higher expectation.

~Everyone else, I'm just doing this for the fun, trying to get ideas, and generally practice my skills in pixel art so I can get a bit better understanding on the construction of things regarding this genre of artwork so that I can arrange other matters better. If you are angered by my critique then don't follow it, I'll post my mind with the greater intent to help. So continue if you must to insult me or my work or whatever else if you must, but it's not going to make me change to your preference. I'll continue the same type of critique if the deviant wishes their work to be critiqued, and I'll continue to work the way I've been working with the intent of getting better.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2007, 01:20:09 am by Hawk »

Offline Sharm

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #34 on: March 16, 2007, 01:19:29 am
Much more readable, though not as dynamic as the silver and black.  It still has a few spots where the lines look wobbly, mostly the left side ad the top.

Offline Helm

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #35 on: March 16, 2007, 01:23:20 am
You have perspective issues, contrast issues, hue issues and jaggiedness issues at this point. I suggest a proper perspective plane, more contrast, a bit of hue variation - though not much more saturation, and to clean up the lineart.

Offline AdamAtomic

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #36 on: March 16, 2007, 01:30:03 am
Experience != Talent
Experience != Skill
Experience != Ability

Believing that it does will prevent you from becoming a better artist.  There is no art in this thread worth defending, and certainly not worth defending with the language you are using.  It sounds like you may not speak English primarily, so I will chalk up some of this to simple language barriers, but there is a strong attitude of "I am already good enough" in spite of the majority of the responses seeming to indicate "no you are not, none of us are."

Your new update is definitely a step in the right direction, but Sharm and Helm's crits all stand as valid and accurate, you have a lot of work to do on this one still!

Offline ndchristie

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #37 on: March 16, 2007, 01:37:36 am
it just doesn't read, especially with the new palette.  the side of the building now comes forward and rests in a plane with the front, and thats just one problem.  the fact that it is more pixel-art now though is a good thing.

Quote
heavy realism impressionism
Quote
innated
Quote
schism of things
Quote
gives me ideas for architypes
Quote
time ticks without discord
Quote
rust rubric

man, what a Lexicorgy ...... we might have less "difficulty on understanding" if your posts made sense.  using words with confidence is one thing, using words incorrectly is quite another.

also, if you want help with a piece, act a little less like unto your username.  if you don't want help with a piece, and just want to show it for the sake of showing it, this is not the place for that.  the board is about critique, so anything posted is understood to be intended to recieve it.

as far as the look at my scribbles thing, it reminds me of that guy who called a press conference to announce that he might be making an announcement later this year..
« Last Edit: March 16, 2007, 01:39:43 am by Adarias »
A mistake is a mistake.
The same mistake twice is a bad habit.
The same mistake three or more times is a motif.

Hawk

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #38 on: March 16, 2007, 01:48:48 am


Fixed some things.

Adarias, I've spoke my mind. Whether or not people care to critique is and has always been their choice. Also for a definition in my ideals what that means:

Heavy realism impressionism = Even though it's a mistype, (heavy realism impression), it means that the peice will have a heavy sense of realism as a dominant category, and have the setting/etc. as sub-categories down the list of priority or down the line of ideal impressions.

Innated = It's generally the word, "innate", which means by nature, instict, default, etc.

Schism = Probably another mistype, though it was intending to reach the definition of the "whole picture of".

Time Ticks Without Discord = It means that time will always tick regardless of our regrets.

Rust Rubric = Rust relevant type rubric, orange/rust brown/etc.

Offline ptoing

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #39 on: March 16, 2007, 01:56:57 am
I suggest more following valid critiques and less pseudointellectual jibber-jabber. So far it seems that you have not taken anything into account what anyone said.
Actually trying to understand what the basics of pixelart are would help as well.

There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Helm

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #40 on: March 16, 2007, 02:03:55 am


what you're trying to do is not impossible, I hope the edit helps.

Offline ndchristie

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #41 on: March 16, 2007, 02:19:05 am
what you ment could be infered based on context, but what you wrote is not what you ment, and assigning definitions to suit your needs doesnt actually qualify as proper use of language.  If you wish to actually communicate, use words that mean the same things that you intend them to.



discord - two or more parts that do not exist in harmony.  a single object, such as a ticking clock, cannot be discordant, so the statement means nothing.  your explanation, if that is truely what you mean to say, would imply that time and our regrets are naturally harmonized, which is a bit of a pessimistic view that still does not benefit your piece.

rust - iron oxide brown, FeO(OH), not the color of your piece.

rubric - iron oxide red, Fe2O3, more commonly known as red ochre or sinoper, also not the color of your piece.

there's no need to defend false definitions in your writing, just say "ooops" and try to avoid using words outside their definitions.

helm's edit has a lot you can take from it, particularly the establishment of planes and focus-depth.
A mistake is a mistake.
The same mistake twice is a bad habit.
The same mistake three or more times is a motif.

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #42 on: March 16, 2007, 02:24:27 am
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rubric not only red ochre :P but still a rather unsuitable term in this case.

Study Helm's edit.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #43 on: March 16, 2007, 02:26:22 am
@Adrias, everything isn't a math problem.
Quote
rust      /rʌst/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ruhst] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. Also called iron rust. the red or orange coating that forms on the surface of iron when exposed to air and moisture, consisting chiefly of ferric hydroxide and ferric oxide formed by oxidation. 
2. any film or coating on metal caused by oxidation. 
3. a stain resembling this coating. 
4. any growth, habit, influence, or agency tending to injure, deteriorate, or impair the mind, character, abilities, usefulness, etc. 
5. Plant Pathology. a. any of several diseases of plants, characterized by reddish, brownish, or black pustules on the leaves, stems, etc., caused by fungi of the order Uredinales. 
b. Also called rust fungus. a fungus causing this disease. 
c. any of several other diseases of unknown cause, characterized by reddish-brown spots or discolorations on the affected parts. 
 
6. reddish yellow, reddish brown, or yellowish red
–verb
(used without object) 7. to become or grow rusty, as iron. 
8. to contract rust. 
9. to deteriorate or become impaired, as through inaction or disuse. 
10. to become rust-colored
–verb (used with object)
11. to affect with rust. 
12. to impair as if with rust. 
13. to make rust-colored
–adjective
14. having the color rust
—Verb phrases
15. rust out, (of metal pipes, machinery, etc.) to decay and become unusable through the action of rust. 
16. rust through, to develop holes, breaks, or the like, because of rust. 
17. rust together, to join two metal pieces, as iron pipes, by causing the joint to rust. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Origin: bef. 900; (n.) ME; OE rūst; c. G Rost; (v.) ME rusten, deriv. of the n.; akin to red]


—Synonyms 2. corrosion. 9. decay, decline.

ru·bric      /ˈrubrɪk/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[roo-brik] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a title, heading, direction, or the like, in a manuscript, book, statute, etc., written or printed in red or otherwise distinguished from the rest of the text. 
2. a direction for the conduct of divine service or the administration of the sacraments, inserted in liturgical books. 
3. any established mode of conduct or procedure; protocol. 
4. an explanatory comment; gloss. 
5. a class or category 
6. Archaic. red ocher. 
–adjective
7. written, inscribed in, or marked with or as with red; rubrical. 
8. Archaic. red; ruddy.


@Helm, thank you.

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #44 on: March 16, 2007, 02:38:42 am
@Adrias, everything isn't a math problem.

Chemistry problem.


Sorry, I had to.

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #45 on: March 16, 2007, 02:42:28 am
@Adrias, everything isn't a math problem.

Chemistry problem.


Sorry, I had to.

Actually that phrase retains to an inside joke from an earlier conversation.

Anyway I'll post an update tommorrow.

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #46 on: March 16, 2007, 02:44:06 am
refers

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #47 on: March 16, 2007, 02:52:16 am
everything isn't a math problem.

everything isn't == nothing is != not everything is
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #48 on: March 16, 2007, 03:00:48 am
Even the far more liberal usages of the word do not describe your piece.  The words you chose are wrong.  There’s no shame in using a word wrong, but why defend them?



Not everything is a math problem, nor do I intend nor have I ever intended to view it or speak of it as such.  That bit of canned "philosophy" is even more pretentious than the intentional misuse of obscure words that do not relate to your meanings.  Logic, however, plays an important role in some places.  The illogical is the stuff of romance and beauty, and not the stuff of critical discussion, or, in the case of our earlier discussion, in business deals.  Would you hire a person who constantly spoke incorrectly about what he was doing?  Talk about a waste of time, and therefore of money!

If a person offered a critique with the same misuses of language that your posts do, you would, assuming that you care enough, say "hey, that word doesn't make sense the way you used it.  What do you really mean?"
A mistake is a mistake.
The same mistake twice is a bad habit.
The same mistake three or more times is a motif.

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #49 on: March 16, 2007, 04:25:15 am
Woo semantics and grammar!  Um...I'll just repeat the critiques that have already been made.  Helm's edit can provide you with a wealth of information; I look forward to seeing your update.  Also, listen to what people are saying about your use of language; precision in statements is important, especially on the internet where facial expression, body language, and other forms of non-verbal communication are not possible ;)
Always remember: a preposition is not something you should end a sentence with.

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #50 on: March 16, 2007, 04:35:13 am
Even the far more liberal usages of the word do not describe your piece.  The words you chose are wrong.  There’s no shame in using a word wrong, but why defend them?



Not everything is a math problem, nor do I intend nor have I ever intended to view it or speak of it as such.  That bit of canned "philosophy" is even more pretentious than the intentional misuse of obscure words that do not relate to your meanings.  Logic, however, plays an important role in some places.  The illogical is the stuff of romance and beauty, and not the stuff of critical discussion, or, in the case of our earlier discussion, in business deals.  Would you hire a person who constantly spoke incorrectly about what he was doing?  Talk about a waste of time, and therefore of money!

If a person offered a critique with the same misuses of language that your posts do, you would, assuming that you care enough, say "hey, that word doesn't make sense the way you used it.  What do you really mean?"
I bolded those phrases/definitions for a reason. It's to explain why I used them, and what they were used to define.

The update will be delayed a bit my carpal tunnel is acting up.

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #51 on: March 16, 2007, 02:34:46 pm
I'm sorry to hear that, but please, there's no need to let us know about whatever reason you have to not update. Generally, don't treat this thread like a blog. Just update when you're ready and we'll try to help.

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #52 on: March 16, 2007, 03:01:40 pm
Man, you really need to get off your high horse.

First of all, your art is not good enough if this is going to become anything near a professional game. After reading everything, I know it's supposed to be a building, but I don't see it. You can get away with an undefined mess like this, if you incorporate it into a cityscape maybe, but not by itself. Follow people's critics, they have a lot more experience in pixel art than you.

And also, show us some of your projects you lead and keep referring to. By the sound of your language you're probably not older than 14 - 15, I have a hard time believing you. Sorry if this sound harsh, but someone needs to tell you...

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #53 on: March 16, 2007, 04:27:07 pm


Here is an update. I did a few changes, and basically just added that line to make it have depth. Changed the color scheme (trying to go back to original). I did some spot checker texurizing. Now some insight on this update, the side panel that you see on the side I turned into a circuit board, or just simply a display screen, and I tried to heavily influence the cool-blue electric tone.

@Gil, do you not understand, that I've already posted what this is for? If not let me restate it. This peice is for practice purposes, to get ahold of a new style before the March 20th. It generally helps with new ideas, etc. and it also helps me get a deeper insight into the difficulties of the spriters that I hire for the game, and give more valid critique.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2007, 04:29:16 pm by Hawk »

Offline Gil

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #54 on: March 16, 2007, 04:41:06 pm
That's tons better already.

And I didn't ask what it was for, I asked what it was, it doesn't look like a building at all... (now it does in your last edit)


Quote
spot checker texurizing

It's called "dither", the verb is "dithering"

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #55 on: March 16, 2007, 05:20:33 pm
I think you improved but...
It could be alot bigger. Use black to show the sides.

Hawk

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #56 on: March 16, 2007, 05:32:04 pm
I think you improved but...
It could be alot bigger. Use black to show the sides.

Don't worry, I plan on making a larger version soon. Small mock-up models can only go so far.

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #57 on: March 16, 2007, 05:33:01 pm
Wouldn't it than be more wise to set up a scale so we know what to expect?

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #58 on: March 16, 2007, 06:33:14 pm
did you really think it was worth creating a whole thread for something that is a test - that isnt even gonna be used in your game?

maybe a load of test's in mockup form so we can get a feel for something, but this is just... nothing really.

from the replies in this thread i would suggest having a re-think on your pixel-skills aswell as the style your going for.  You have a long way to go.

Hawk

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #59 on: March 16, 2007, 06:59:12 pm
did you really think it was worth creating a whole thread for something that is a test - that isnt even gonna be used in your game?

maybe a load of test's in mockup form so we can get a feel for something, but this is just... nothing really.

from the replies in this thread i would suggest having a re-think on your pixel-skills aswell as the style your going for.  You have a long way to go.

Read the following:

Quote
....do you not understand, that I've already posted what this is for? If not let me restate it. This peice is for practice purposes, to get ahold of a new style before the March 20th. It generally helps with new ideas, etc. and it also helps me get a deeper insight into the difficulties of the spriters that I hire for the game, and give more valid critique.

Also if the general public would like to see the game material then they can wait until the beta or look at the screenshots on the game website.

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #60 on: March 16, 2007, 07:20:05 pm
I would like to see those other projects you were leading, the ones you already finished. Really curious.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #61 on: March 16, 2007, 08:50:39 pm
I got an itch it's something related to gamemaker or rpgmaker.....

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #62 on: March 16, 2007, 10:32:38 pm
....do you not understand, that I've already posted what this is for? If not let me restate it. This peice is for practice purposes, to get ahold of a new style before the March 20th. It generally helps with new ideas, etc. and it also helps me get a deeper insight into the difficulties of the spriters that I hire for the game, and give more valid critique.

Also if the general public would like to see the game material then they can wait until the beta or look at the screenshots on the game website.

That did not answer my post at all.  Practice purposes of what?? you can't base a whole game style on a tiny graphic of a poor building.  How is this related to the spriters you are going to 'hire' for your game, this is not a sprite!!  Valid Critique:  speaks for itself really when you don't listen to anyone on these boards, except yourself.

Man, i'm tired of this thread. 

All the best, Feron.

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #63 on: March 16, 2007, 11:15:44 pm
...Go back to learning art? Hmm, years of 3D terrain modeling, general concept art, and around 2 years of leading gaming projects? 

I'm having a hard time believing this, you have years of knowledge in 3d and yet you have perspective and shading problems specially for a small building??

Such arrogance

Really.. Go back learning the basics.  :n:
« Last Edit: March 16, 2007, 11:17:55 pm by Froli »

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #64 on: March 17, 2007, 12:40:18 am
....do you not understand, that I've already posted what this is for? If not let me restate it. This peice is for practice purposes, to get ahold of a new style before the March 20th. It generally helps with new ideas, etc. and it also helps me get a deeper insight into the difficulties of the spriters that I hire for the game, and give more valid critique.

Also if the general public would like to see the game material then they can wait until the beta or look at the screenshots on the game website.

That did not answer my post at all.  Practice purposes of what?? you can't base a whole game style on a tiny graphic of a poor building.  How is this related to the spriters you are going to 'hire' for your game, this is not a sprite!!  Valid Critique:  speaks for itself really when you don't listen to anyone on these boards, except yourself.

Man, i'm tired of this thread. 

All the best, Feron.

...Practicing purposes, can you not connect that practicing when relating to a pixel art thread means that the user is practicing pixel art? Also now you are once more misleading yourself, but then again let's go by your logic, I'm going to base an entire game of possibly over 500 complex maps on one building, hmm....seems possible. How is it related you say? First off it gives me an insight into the basic methods and issues of pixeling, and I guess...oh wait, it's a part of spriting!!! Also if your so tired of this thread then exclude yourself like a normal person.

Froli, you tend to insulting my talents when you have no relevant comparison between 3D and 2D. 3D automatically creates the sense of perspective/shading/etc. So truly if you knew anything about the comparison you would know that you would be lost if you majored in one, and tried the other or the other way around. Though then again I can't expect you to listen to someone that is so ignorant.

Now the above messages are basically a mimiced version of the type of responses, (replies to you're comments in my case), that you and the majority of posters have been giving me. I think it's time you all rethought your judgement before prosecuting someone as well as trying to dig into their affairs when uninvited. Now learn it and learn well, I think it's about time you accepted that I'm here to practice and learn by self teaching and critique, and that I will be giving critique when it is desired within any manner that I care to present it. If you don't like how I critique due to my encouragement of higher expectations, then don't follow/listen/regard it in any manner and continue on with whatever matters were more helpful to your production.

Finally in regards to everyone that helped with their critique and suggestions, I cordially thank you with an extended thanks to Helm for the editation that gave me some aid in template selection, and general perspective as well as giving me an ideal style objective on the peice I'm working on. Frankly as I've told him, and now shall tell everyone, I had no real intent on what to make of this peice, and that is why you've seen so many changes, because right now I'm just trying to come to grips on a style or building framing I like. Thank you for your time again Helm, and others who helped, and my apologies for such a sacastic words and wasting your time reading this post.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2007, 12:42:23 am by Hawk »

Offline abzdragon

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #65 on: March 17, 2007, 12:46:58 am
I think the point that needs to be made is you shouldn't give such harsh and rather rude critiques then post something of the same caliber or less. *shrugs* Basically don't be on a high horse unless it's deserving.  :P

Quote
I think it's time you all rethought your judgement before prosecuting someone as well as trying to dig into their affairs when uninvited.
Did you mean persecute? ^^

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #66 on: March 17, 2007, 12:47:26 am
I think it's time you all rethought your judgement before prosecuting someone as well as trying to dig into their affairs when uninvited.

wtf - its a public forum!

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #67 on: March 17, 2007, 01:07:28 am
I think it's time you tone down your attitude and rethink your use of these forums, man.

Okay, see how the one piece you've posted so far isn't that good (honestly, not to be mean)? Well, you know how, I dunno, people have a tendency to sometimes lie? It's an easy conclusion to come to - even if it ends up being wrong - that you haven't got as much experience as you say you do, especially since you haven't proven anyone otherwise aside from arguing that you are. As for 3d translating to 2d, if you majored in 3d art then you should have learned the fundamentals of art in general, including, no, especially things like perspective. You know, horizon lines, vanishing points and all that jazz? That stuff was meant to make the application of 3d space in a 2d plane such as pixel art easier, rather than, I dunno, winging it. This may be a practice piece but that doesn't mean you have to get all indignant when your the one too busy defending your word choices and refering people to the original post. This is an art forum, not a game forum. We see art, we post what we think needs fixed. Chances are the longer your initial post the less people want to read it. We assume you came here to get critiques, so if you've got anything pertaining to the art to be said, go ahead, but all that extra information about the context and origins and game is just, well, pointless. This is not a game project forum. So, then, when people continually tell you the same thing is wrong, then it apparently means you haven't gotten around to fixing it, which maybe means you won't, which would mean you're ignoring valuable information.
Don't get flustered when all you have to do is either take the advice or leave it, update, and repeat. No one here is really anticipating your next iteration, so no need to announce it. Just post it when you need more help or when you're satisfied or when you think it would be a good place to start.

Okay, sorry if I misunderstood something, and Hawk, I wish you the best of luck with your endeavor. Just...chill.

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #68 on: March 17, 2007, 01:29:51 am
Quote from: Hawk

Froli, you tend to insulting my talents when you have no relevant comparison between 3D and 2D. 3D automatically creates the sense of perspective/shading/etc.

To all the years of your "experience" working on 3d, you mean, you never learned anything from it by using your observation?

When you use automatic light source and how it give different shades to an object depending how you position it. You never had an Eureka moment "Ahh so that how it works"  ?
<edit, didn't see Xion's post..but he explained it very well>

And in regards to my post about "go back and learn the basic" It is the answer that most people ignore/don't listen to and just jump to the big projects and in the end, they find themselves asking "where did I go wrong". Asks the experts here and they will tell you the same.

And as for my tone of my post, it's because you sound arrogant as how you flaunt your talent and the way you criticize like quote: "Try extending your efforts beyond the paint bucket."

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #69 on: March 17, 2007, 02:36:07 am
Notice how he totally ignores all the comments asking for his previous projects...

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #70 on: March 17, 2007, 02:54:22 am
I agree. I too want to see your previous projects.

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #71 on: March 17, 2007, 03:13:01 am
I, for one, find this topic rather interesting. And by for one, I mean for many, because it's blatantly obvious that this is "thee" topic.

While my say probably doesn't mean much, I'm going to practice my rights as an american citizen and say that this topic has become incredibly pointless. It has been reduced to back and forth nitpicky arguments due, simply, to arrogance.

There's no real reason that a below average building should warrant 60 posts unless that person, of course, is seeking help and reposting revisions very often. But no, there's none of that going on here. This topic should probably be locked or moved to general discussion with the new title "Hawk is arrogant and lacks experience". Which is what this topic has diminished to.

I think by now Hawk, hopefully, has an idea of the way things work around here and if he decides to stay and interact the way everybody else does, he should start a new topic and do things the way they ought to be done. Post some work worthy of critiquing and then take those critiques into consideration.

This is a rather mature community with highly talented artists Hawk, and if you can't accept those facts then it's not worth your time to be here.

While this topic was quite amusing originally, I think that it's just getting to be out of control now.

Hawk

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #72 on: March 17, 2007, 07:29:38 am
I, for one, find this topic rather interesting. And by for one, I mean for many, because it's blatantly obvious that this is "thee" topic.

While my say probably doesn't mean much, I'm going to practice my rights as an american citizen and say that this topic has become incredibly pointless. It has been reduced to back and forth nitpicky arguments due, simply, to arrogance.

There's no real reason that a below average building should warrant 60 posts unless that person, of course, is seeking help and reposting revisions very often. But no, there's none of that going on here. This topic should probably be locked or moved to general discussion with the new title "Hawk is arrogant and lacks experience". Which is what this topic has diminished to.

I think by now Hawk, hopefully, has an idea of the way things work around here and if he decides to stay and interact the way everybody else does, he should start a new topic and do things the way they ought to be done. Post some work worthy of critiquing and then take those critiques into consideration.

This is a rather mature community with highly talented artists Hawk, and if you can't accept those facts then it's not worth your time to be here.

While this topic was quite amusing originally, I think that it's just getting to be out of control now.

My apologies for the way this thread turned out. Though I delay my apologies by the way that you take view of this topic, I've done nothing wrong in any essence, but have been persecuted with all of this based off of critique, and your words are meaningless as you fail to reckon to that reasoning in addition to your childish request for a immature resolve.

Froli, Gil, why would I intend to expand a new world of material before you just so that you can add to your streak of spite towards me? Now Froli, try looking at the reasoning why I made that comment, you might see something past just one sentence, and see that I posted an example as well as a passage of critique for that artist.

Anyway, using this topic as I originally intended it to be:



The update has alot of dithering and I removed/redid some of the lines, and added some contrast. It looks better and cleaner than before in my perspective.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2007, 07:36:30 am by Hawk »

Offline Generic

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #73 on: March 17, 2007, 07:36:43 am
Well I'm going to steer clear of this whole argument and comment on the picture. I know it's a WIP but right now the left side of the building (our left) looks dull compared to the right side which has a lot more detail. And maybe you could add more colors other than mostly monochrome unless it is intended to look like that. Well keep working on it, it's looking a lot better.

Hawk

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #74 on: March 17, 2007, 07:48:53 am
Well I'm going to steer clear of this whole argument and comment on the picture. I know it's a WIP but right now the left side of the building (our left) looks dull compared to the right side which has a lot more detail. And maybe you could add more colors other than mostly monochrome unless it is intended to look like that. Well keep working on it, it's looking a lot better.

Thanks, it's a relief you say that. Though currently I'm trying to work on a general style for the front and then mimic a similiar to the side. Yet I'll take into account your suggestion when I get to the side.

Offline philipptr

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #75 on: March 17, 2007, 08:18:29 am
You should really control your colours better. You are using 48 at the moment. Here's an edit with 16 colours.

original/edit:


(and I fixed the perspective-line at the left top which was anoying me all the time O_o)

Hawk

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #76 on: March 17, 2007, 08:49:49 am
You should really control your colours better. You are using 48 at the moment. Here's an edit with 16 colours.

original/edit:


(and I fixed the perspective-line at the left top which was anoying me all the time O_o)

Ahh, thanks. I had alot of leftover colors from template changes. Also I'll take to changing that line like I said just previously once I get an ideal design.

Offline Rerg1

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #77 on: March 17, 2007, 09:24:03 am
The grey outlines on the top of the building need to be darker.

And for all of us.

What games did you (help) produce?

Hawk

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #78 on: March 17, 2007, 10:09:01 am
The grey outlines on the top of the building need to be darker.

And for all of us.

What games did you (help) produce?

Read this previous statement.
Quote
...why would I intend to expand a new world of material before you just so that you can add to your streak of spite towards me?

Offline Rerg1

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #79 on: March 17, 2007, 10:16:35 am
We dont hate you man, your attituide was a little more I know it all than most of us expected.
Stop stalling me, I'm interested.

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #80 on: March 17, 2007, 10:51:00 am
He doesnt have any previous projects or he would have posted them and shut us all up by now.

I'm with doppleganger - this thread should be locked and a new normal one for his building should be ceated.

Offline JJ Naas

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #81 on: March 17, 2007, 10:59:51 am
The lack of antennas on the left side of the building makes the pic seem as if it consisted of two totally separate elements. Also, the antennas seem to be lined up against the right edge of the building. That may not be the idea but that's the impression I get.

Hawk, people want to know whether the "harsh critique" you've given them stems from personal experience.

Offline ndchristie

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #82 on: March 17, 2007, 01:06:10 pm
The new edit has better overall sense of planes, but you've lost all of the local forms you had before, and it's getting more and more difficult to understand visually.  I would apply the improvements you've started with the regional shading to the forms you had with the off-gray version.


Quote
My apologies for the way this thread turned out. Though I delay my apologies by the way that you take view of this topic, I've done nothing wrong in any essence, but have been persecuted with all of this based off of critique, and your words are meaningless as you fail to reckon to that reasoning in addition to your childish request for a immature resolve.

Froli, Gil, why would I intend to expand a new world of material before you just so that you can add to your streak of spite towards me? Now Froli, try looking at the reasoning why I made that comment, you might see something past just one sentence, and see that I posted an example as well as a passage of critique for that artist.

The venom of this post and the continued misuse of words is just shocking.  Can you really appologize and then blame everyone else and claim complete innocence?

If there is any spite here, which i do not feel there is, at least not in large quantities, it is derived mostly from the fact that you have not shown any material, and your attitude.  Your refusal to post solid graphics or even information will only make whatever percieved threat there is to you larger, and it's suprising that you cannot see that.



At first i suspected you were a highschool or college student pretending to be older from the way that you were using innacurate terms and seemingly unable to accept very common ideas pertaining to the industry, such as the hiring of designers, but now i have my doubts that you are even an entry level enthusiast.  Appologizing without appologizing, defending incorrect material, refusing to elaborate on simple claims, these are all the things children do when they are about 12 or 13, knowing just enough to think they know everything.  I'm not going to say that you are that age, but if you are any older, the comparisson should come as a wake-up call.

Also, it is considered common knowledge, at least in the educational community, that experience in one field will influence related fields.  A sculpter will almost without fail have a far better grasp of volume in his two-dimensional work even if he seldom if ever pursues it.  Your lack of ability suggests that your years of study may be little more than hyperbole.



All of this is the singular result of the way you handle yourself; the members of this community to not seek to harm. 
A mistake is a mistake.
The same mistake twice is a bad habit.
The same mistake three or more times is a motif.

Offline Gil

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #83 on: March 17, 2007, 01:22:06 pm
The reason why we're acting like we are is because of the way you reply to other people:

Quote
...Even though you are new, please show at least some effort other than just showing an outlined animation. Also even before you post this, why not look around at other threads that have had the same inquery, this way time could be saved.

You are new yourself, and even then, the piece already showed immense effort.

Quote
If you want to know all about game design just shoot me a PM, I've been in and led 2D and 3D projects several times over. Also I'll tell you now, a team isn't anything without a scripter. True if you have a default engine you could produce something satisfactory, but alas without a coder to pump the ideas into script you will have in no manner a way of chance for success in a game.

If we want to know all about game design? Show us your games then...

Offline snake

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #84 on: March 17, 2007, 02:05:41 pm
Enough. Regardless of what games he has or has not made before, this is about skill improvement. Attitude problems can be discussed elsewhere.

Hawk. To offer some critique, I need to know a few things. I know you have stated that this is just practice to develop some style, but you need to explain how this is to be used. From the picture, It looks like a background image for a sidescoller. However, in your original post, you mention tactics, which would imply isometric or a top-down perspective. Is the image meant to be a stand alone piece itself with no relation to any game? is there a background involved or is the building on a transparant background? What are you trying to make?

If you, however, decide you don't want or need help, people will stop helping. No one is out to get you, we just need to know how.

Offline Froli

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #85 on: March 17, 2007, 02:16:16 pm
But Snake, I think we are being tricked here.. I feel this guy made a joke account as a prank just to piss us off.

I'm mostly respectful but he really rubbed me off the wrong way with arrogant replies and criticism on the other threads. This is my last post here.. -_-

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #86 on: March 17, 2007, 02:37:45 pm
Please people. There's a LOT of you that are jumping to the self-appointed role of quasimoderator, though you don't have to. If you find Hawk's way of posting wrong, ignore the man and his requests for help. If you really think it's gone overboard, pm or e-mail a moderator and they'll take care of it privately.

However, since this has gone as it has so far, here's a bit of public ugliness for the lot of you:

Rerg, stop posting uselessness, it will only get deleted again. Why make work for me? Seriously, one more unrelated to art or critique one-liner, and you're getting a strike.

Gil, Froli, Adarias: while for your -different each- reasons you may think this is worth persuing, I'm formally asking you to drop it.

Hawk: though yours is a borderline case, in that you're not really acting like an outright ass, your attitude does seem to annoy a lot of people. I have to ask you to take my suggestion to reconsider this attitude into account, before this gets any uglier. You think you've done nothing wrong, and you say you will carry on posting with the same atititude in the future. I am, as a moderator, asking you to reconsider this. You have not crossed the line, but you're right next to it.


If this thread veers off again, it will be locked, and strikes will fall like lashings.

Thank you.

Hawk

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #87 on: March 17, 2007, 06:37:18 pm


Here is an update, courtesy of what was brought to my attention about the color count and the specific line. I'm unsure of the color count because I have no way to find out after I lost the count at the third update. Though after I find an ideal style for the front I'll start applying the texture to the building.

~Helm, I'll take into account what you've saiid, thank you.

Offline Generic

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #88 on: March 17, 2007, 07:04:29 pm
According to paintshop pro, you currently are using 9 colors. Just thought I'd let you know incase you were still wondering.

Offline ndchristie

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #89 on: March 17, 2007, 11:01:44 pm
Helm - fair enough

Hawk - i don't know if the dithering is working for you, it adds a bit of an unneeded texture and calls attention to the jaggedness of the media.  pixel art has a lot to do with knowing how to work with it's imperfections to create a piece that looks great.  The dithering is also going to play all sorts of kinky games with the texturing you're going to start, so i would advise making it a solid color.
A mistake is a mistake.
The same mistake twice is a bad habit.
The same mistake three or more times is a motif.

Hawk

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #90 on: March 18, 2007, 03:32:49 am


Alright, thank you Generic.

I've finally gotten the style I'm going to use. I finally accepted the fact that I couldn't do the detail on the small model. Though with the model above I intend to add 4 smaller oval plates on the front and 3 on the side though I'm having some perspective issues. Now I'm going to be doing open circuit plates throughout the entire model, and well as a cool blue circuit on the side. The edges I tend to round out, and add beacons throughout the entire top of the structure. Finally I plan on adding a base once this portion is done, just have to decide on method of entrance.

Offline Helm

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #91 on: March 18, 2007, 03:34:54 am
uh, this looks like a computer case more than anything.

I don't think going bigger is going to help you, as you seem to suffer from fundamental lack of knowledge on shading and such. It'll only become glaringly more apparent in the bigger model. But go right ahead if you want.

Offline Frychiko

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #92 on: March 18, 2007, 04:01:24 am
I agree it's looking more and more like a computer case. Stick with the smaller model, you're making improvements gradually. The larger one is too much to handle for your skill level and there's no need to practice pixelling at that size. Also, why not sketch out a design on paper first? It'd be so much quicker to iron out a design.


Congratulation this story is happy end. Thank you. - Ghost & Goblins

Offline abzdragon

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #93 on: March 18, 2007, 04:15:20 am
I must agree that it looks like some sort of modded computer case. At that size I honestly, with your skill level, I think you would be better off doing some type of CG. I think you should try and make progress with the smaller one still. With everyone's suggestions you are progressing, so why stunt that? I could actually see the concept in your last update. :)

Hawk

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #94 on: March 18, 2007, 06:28:35 am
uh, this looks like a computer case more than anything.

I don't think going bigger is going to help you, as you seem to suffer from fundamental lack of knowledge on shading and such. It'll only become glaringly more apparent in the bigger model. But go right ahead if you want.

Shading. Yes, I have the image in my head on what it's going to look like, that isn't the problem. Before I couldn't imagine it. Now I fully understand what I'm going to create. Here I drew up some quick lines on one of the larger panels to show an example of what it's going to look like:



Ignore the bad form of line shading, but it's to show what the majority of the peice is going to look like, now of course I still have yet to add the blue dome plates, though this will give you some insight. The lines that you see generally act as circuit lines as they are made of various metal alloy which are commonly embedded into the wall with a sheet of light material of mineral guard to prevent corrosion or breaks in the circuit lines. The style became popular not only for the external fashion, but because it cut down general construction time in the division of Relect wire plotting.
Though anyway aside from the facts, I plan to add the dome plates next as well as add the other circuit lines, and then start shading. I'm going to start on the side black panel later after the general is completed because I still have yet to really decide what to make it, how to make it, and with what impression to make it for. Yet after everything is finished I'll show the more high-tech/accurate model for this building, as it will be the actual building design that will be used in-game once I feel that I"ve grasped this style.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2007, 07:03:10 am by Hawk »

Offline philipptr

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #95 on: March 18, 2007, 09:50:43 am
In my opinion this perspective looks very strange. It's very strange that the front isn't perspectively stretched but still you can see so much of the left plane. Here's a very very quick edit (which is also not really pixel art since I just used free transform in photoshop) to give you some idea on less strange looking perspectives:


also the lines on the left side are not correct. they are almost parallel, while the should meet in one point somewhere on the left:

Offline Helm

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #96 on: March 18, 2007, 03:25:33 pm
The 'circuit' lines look like veins. It doesn't read like you want it to read.

Hawk

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #97 on: March 18, 2007, 06:50:59 pm
Well, logically speaking there isn't much of a difference between a human blood circuit and an energy circuit. Anyway, here is a small update:



I fixed the lines, and will start texturizing that side panel, and then add the cool blue energy lines once I create a good template for it. Also I'm taking back what I said earlier, I'll be adding the blue dome plates at the end to see how the whole thing shapes up first, yet already I can see it's rather empty.

Offline Helm

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #98 on: March 18, 2007, 06:57:16 pm
Okay, you don't seem to be listening to critique so much as answering it. I don't find that very conductive, and therefore I will leave you alone to persue this as you wish.

Offline Colonel Mustard

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #99 on: March 18, 2007, 08:52:18 pm
Well, logically speaking there isn't much of a difference between a human blood circuit and an energy circuit.

I'm not sure where you got that idea from. If you're talking in a practical sense? Then maybe, but since this is how they look, I think you'd be better off pursuing something like this: http://www.dorsetforyou.com/media/images/e/t/CompletedPrintedCircuitBoard.jpg
Compared to this:
http://www.accessexcellence.org/AE/AEC/CC/images/art_vein.gif

And I'm not sure if it's such a good idea to put a circuit board on the side of a tower. It could get nasty in case of rain.

Hawk

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #100 on: March 18, 2007, 10:15:06 pm
Well both circuits have a flow, one is blood, one is energy. They both travel through routes. Thanks. Now to answer your question about the circuit yes, I fully understand that reasoning. It came to my mind about the rain, or weather conditions a pretty long time ago. So I've decided to turn it into a holligram projection panel, using a similiar technique to present day technology. By embedding the black board and putting projections at every side they will be able to create a holligram the entire width of that panel dependancy on the light projection frequency along with projection angle. Yet in regards to what I will have display is still a question since doing an image would particularly difficult so I"m going to result to doing text for the time being to cut back colors.
Now in regards to current progress I"m having a bit of difficulty on making a good template for the panel shading. It might take a while longer.

Offline philipptr

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #101 on: March 18, 2007, 10:23:45 pm
just out of curiosity, did you read my last post in this thread?

Hawk

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #102 on: March 18, 2007, 10:29:25 pm
just out of curiosity, did you read my last post in this thread?

Yes, and I thank you for the example. I'm just going to end up keeping it this way though, but I assure you that when I get to the real building that I'll take into account your examples. Right now, I'm just trying to get associated with the creation of good templates, how to arrange good detail, etc. once I acheive this I'll start on the real mock up.

Offline Rynen10K

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #103 on: March 19, 2007, 05:04:11 pm


Yeah, Yeah, I know: "Eew". I just wanted to try a hand at editing it  :crazy:

Also, I threw up a lineart of the old design.

To be honest, I don't really like dithering unless I really have to... maybe I just need more practice with it.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2007, 05:15:25 pm by Rynen10K »

Offline Xion

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #104 on: March 19, 2007, 06:51:12 pm
I really don't see how this is supposed to be a building. I mean...aside from the fact that it's a tall, rectangular object, I don't see anything buildingish about it. I mean, circuits? Are you sure you don't want this to be a computer or something? I don't see any windows, doors, those little ridge thingies that stick out to signify the separation between floors that gargoyles used to stand on but then they got rid of gargoyles but sometimes you still saw the ridges where they would sit if they still were...
Well, my point is there's nothing about this at all that says "building." I think you might want to remedy that before you get too far. I know you said this is practice and all, but if this is going to be in a game, the design of it must be fairly clear.

If I misunderstood something just tell me.

Offline Kren

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #105 on: March 19, 2007, 06:54:28 pm
I really don't see how this is supposed to be a building. I mean...aside from the fact that it's a tall, rectangular object, I don't see anything buildingish about it. I mean, circuits? Are you sure you don't want this to be a computer or something? I don't see any windows, doors, those little ridge thingies that stick out to signify the separation between floors that gargoyles used to stand on but then they got rid of gargoyles but sometimes you still saw the ridges where they would sit if they still were...
Well, my point is there's nothing about this at all that says "building." I think you might want to remedy that before you get too far. I know you said this is practice and all, but if this is going to be in a game, the design of it must be fairly clear.

If I misunderstood something just tell me.
Agree on that, I have been reading all the topic and looking to advances, at the beggining I though it was a Ipod-telephone type of thing, then I though it was a computer esque, you should really try to add more building details, eventhough this could be  futuristic building it should have doors and windows, would you like a house without doors and windows hell no.

Offline Rynen10K

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #106 on: March 19, 2007, 08:22:42 pm
Well, it's a comm tower, so I'm guessing it's main function is to send and receive signals...

But, yeah, there should be at least some sort of lookout window.. A Communication Tower's no good if someone sneaks up and blows it up  :P

Hawk

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #107 on: March 20, 2007, 02:49:24 am
~Rynen10K, thank you for the editation, though I believe you made a small attempt at a Matrix inbreed. Anyway thank you none the less. There will be signal base stations ontop, and it's in a high-tech theme so there isn't really a need for a look out window. It's the foundation of a space database and communications so if anyone, even a terrorist, attempts to blow it up they would be hunted by a massive division.

~Xion, I've already explained what I was going to do throughout this thread.

~Kren, it's not a house, it's a tower.

~All, though I must say I thank everyone that has helped me in this situation to get a stronger grip on pixeling, yet due to some recent issues with other members and my outlook on some of the factors of this forum I will be closing this project, *at least here*, and will retain it through private contacts as I will be using my final posts for the game job thread/upkeep instead of earning warnings for doing anything otherwise.

Offline alkaline

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Re: [WIP] Starting From Step One

Reply #108 on: March 20, 2007, 02:59:56 am
Good luck then.