AuthorTopic: Feature 04 - Tank  (Read 59523 times)

Offline Opacus

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Re: Tank...now with animation attempt.

Reply #30 on: February 25, 2007, 11:15:31 pm
Well, my experience/knowledge of sub-pixeling...is,well, zero I'm afraid...anyone care to edit?

Offline Ryumaru

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Re: Tank...now with animation attempt.

Reply #31 on: February 25, 2007, 11:28:19 pm
you probably shouldnt even use this, since im not an animator at all. in fact i probably did this to help me more than to help you; maybe it will atleast give you an idea:
« Last Edit: September 16, 2007, 04:05:49 pm by Panda »

Offline alkaline

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Re: Tank...now with animation attempt.

Reply #32 on: February 25, 2007, 11:32:20 pm
kinda ryumaru, if i feel not lazy enough and have enough time i will make an edit

Offline ndchristie

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Re: Tank...now with animation attempt.

Reply #33 on: February 26, 2007, 12:09:28 am
subpixel motion is when an object is animated such that it shifts in non-integeral distances, such as moving and edge X.5 pixels down, etc.

kinda like....AA but animated in a way, in that AA is showing when an edge is half-on half-off a pixelwidth....and subpixel movement is such that a frame shows it half-on half-off a pixellwidth.  even at it's simplest it is different than cut-and-paste in that you are required to redraw at least the edges of colors in order for it to be subpixel.

to be honest i always thought it was the same as redrawing AA on each frame for the longest time.

does that make any sense?

heres an example of a simple line moving up and down one pixel over 4 frames; so moving .5 pixels per frame, <1 pixel, subpixel.  hope that makes sense



the reson i suggested it is that for a low-res job like this, you dont have room for huge changes of pixel placement.  slight changes in slope and height are required to make it look nice.

and using the beautifully dithered line by .takam

« Last Edit: September 16, 2007, 03:54:11 pm by Panda »
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Offline Evil-Ville

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Re: Tank...now with animation attempt.

Reply #34 on: February 26, 2007, 01:13:49 am
I added a cheap (and quick) subpixel wobble to demonstrate it a bit.



I never knew how much fun making edits would be.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2007, 04:08:16 pm by Panda »

Offline Sherman Gill

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Re: Tank...now with animation attempt.

Reply #35 on: February 26, 2007, 01:39:38 am
There's also my avatar :D.

To be honest, I don't think either of the edits given are very good examples. Neither of them make that much sense and Ville's is mainly just moving large sections up and down
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Offline Ai

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Re: Tank...now with animation attempt.

Reply #36 on: February 26, 2007, 01:50:29 am
subpixel motion is when an object is animated such that it shifts in non-integeral distances, such as moving and edge X.5 pixels down, etc.

kinda like....AA but animated in a way, in that AA is showing when an edge is half-on half-off a pixelwidth....and subpixel movement is such that a frame shows it half-on half-off a pixellwidth.  even at it's simplest it is different than cut-and-paste in that you are required to redraw at least the edges of colors in order for it to be subpixel.
Actually it can be done using copy + paste -- you select the area that you want to move, plus some bordering (if you're moving it 0.5 pixels down, you need to select with an extra row on the top; if you're moving it 0.5 pixels left, you need to select with an extra column on the left, ...); Then you copy it, paste it; Round the offset up to the nearest integer and move it that number of pixels (eg. if the x,y offsets were 0.25,0.25 you move it +1,+1 pixels); then you set the opacity to match the offset (eg. 25% opacity to match 0.25 offset)) and merge the pasted layer with the underlying sprite.
in short: copy, paste, move, set opacity, merge. (and reindexize it to the previous palette)
That doesn't handle masking/transparency in a sprite-ish way, so you would have to touch up some edges if you needed to offset a partially-transparent bit. unless you had alpha channel in your sprites, in which case it would be perfectly correct and excellent.

That method is always perfectly uniform, so it's usually a good guideline.
Using paintprogram rotation to get subpixel rotation and combining that with the above technique is also good for working out guides.

Quote
to be honest i always thought it was the same as redrawing AA on each frame for the longest time.
I think it's easier if you have the frames without AA and then render them all at once.
Then it works to just 'push around' the AA for any minor movement effects.
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Offline ndchristie

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Re: Tank...now with animation attempt.

Reply #37 on: February 26, 2007, 02:49:18 am
that all sounds good for a speed job; im not sure how "pixel-art" there is in letting the computer figure for you though, and for pixel-art opacity is all or nothing - no fancy blending.  It also seems like you would get very dirty/unpredicatble results (using a paintprogram rotation is another way to get dirty/unpredicatble  results >.<) so i cannot reccomend either, and to use them together seems like it would only divide your chance of getting something nice even further.

What these automatic-type-things are good for is producing an idea how how the proportions should hold up, which can be pasted on the side of your canvas and used as a reference.  Not sure if that would help in this case though
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Offline Ai

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Re: Tank...now with animation attempt.

Reply #38 on: February 26, 2007, 04:45:27 am
for pixel-art opacity is all or nothing - no fancy blending.
eh? You only need opacity to perform the subpixelization, not to actually draw the sprite.
Quote
  It also seems like you would get very dirty/unpredicatble results (using a paintprogram rotation is another way to get dirty/unpredicatble  results >.<)
Well, the second maybe (but for pixel art, it only needs to be within 20% of correct positioning for a ref.)
The first is perfectly fine -- you just convert it back to the original palette and clean up any stray bits. The more exacting precision is needed, the more benefit you'll get from a computer's help.
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Offline Opacus

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Re: Tank...now with animation attempt.

Reply #39 on: February 26, 2007, 08:39:16 am
Here is a sub pixel attempt. Wouldn't have a clue how to improve:
« Last Edit: September 16, 2007, 04:02:13 pm by Panda »