AuthorTopic: KON'S FINAL REDEMPTION SITE GOES ACCOUNT-BASED, ASKS FOR MONEY  (Read 33552 times)

Offline Helm

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Re: KON'S FINAL REDEMPTION SITE GOES ACCOUNT-BASED, ASKS FOR MONEY

Reply #50 on: February 21, 2007, 02:40:39 pm
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i just think you should have done this more tastefully

I will agree that this is the case. When I was first linked to Kon's website and pay-for-videos I was outraged and insulted that a moderator of this place would do this. This carried in my tone, and though I regret that, I can't say my opinion on the matter has changed, it has just cooled and crystallized into a very definite disagreement.

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"you're not as good as you think you are"

I see absolutely no harm in someone telling someone else 'you're not as good as you think you are'. The person telling you doesn't even have to be better than you. It's a valid wake-up-call to almost all artists on this boards. Most artists I've met and whose art I admire remind this to themselves every day. They might comission artwork, but they wouldn't ask for money to let other people see them draw.  Now, I agree someone getting in your face and telling you 'hey man, you're not as good an artist as you think' is presumtuous in most occasions, for how can one know exactly in what regard you hold yourself as an artist? Well, one can know, once you start charging people for the privilege of seeing you do pixel art...

It's like it was mentioned above, who will pay to see the art being made? Will it be people that are looking to hire pixel artists? No, of course not. These people demand quick-to-browse portfolios and don't waste time, much less PAY you to give you a chance at being hired. It will be other pixel artists looking to learn, therefore the videos take a 'tutorial' charge. And if you're charging for tutorials, you better be some sort of not only extremely competent draftsman, but also have your methodology down to so so so so neat and easy-to-follow that other people can learn from just watching a video without even narration.

Now, I've posted video tutorials, and they're free for many reasons: First, I don't feel I'm very good. Second: I don't think they're self-explanatory at all, and therefore more 'entertainment' than 'education'. Voiceovers and pauses and technical explanations would help, but I can't be bothered. Lastly, and this is the most important (and this is why Pixelation is free too) is that I don't consider myself an authority on pixel art, I make many mistakes and may mislead people if they trust me with helping them. We're all learning here from each other. When I critique or edit someone on these boards, I am also learning, and reevaluating my own practises.

Apparently the person whose videos Ptoing linked to also doesn't consider himself as befittingly being in a teacher position, and if you want my opinion, as amazingly good as he is (in my eyes), I can understand why, since his process is so esoteric to watch. He scribbles like hell and you can tell it ends up good because he's got the keen sense to make it good, but it's not explained. If I scribbled like he does the end result would be hilariously messy and bad. So if he was charging for those videos, and I paid and saw them, I'd say I was ripped off, because I didn't learn much besides see pretty art being made.

Offline gliding

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Re: KON'S FINAL REDEMPTION SITE GOES ACCOUNT-BASED, ASKS FOR MONEY

Reply #51 on: February 21, 2007, 02:49:54 pm
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If I scribbled like he does the end result would be hilariously messy and bad. So if he was charging for those videos, and I paid and saw them, I'd say I was ripped off, because I didn't learn much besides see pretty art being made.

I found that point particulary true,helm, and I'm glad you pointed that out. So maybe the real question isn't whether alexs is good enough- or as talented a pixel artist to post those videos. Alex, do you think your videos are thorough and easy enough to follow that people will be paying for tutorials and videos that they can actually use?

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I see absolutely no harm in someone telling someone else 'you're not as good as you think you are'. The person telling you doesn't even have to be better than you.

I completely agree, my problem wasn't the words used- it was moreso the tone evoked at the time. It seemed as if the message was meant as more of a harsh criticism rather than a candid wakeup call.

Offline ptoing

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Re: KON'S FINAL REDEMPTION SITE GOES ACCOUNT-BASED, ASKS FOR MONEY

Reply #52 on: February 21, 2007, 03:09:20 pm
About the "being better than one thinks he is":

I often have the feeling Alex is very, very pleased with his art, I mainly got this impression when I read the comments he made on his art on his homepage.

I feel an artist should never be 100% happy with his skill, there is ALWAYS room to improve. One big problem on forums (even moreso than in the real world)
is asskissing. People who are ok or good get massive amounts of asskissing like "OMG YOU ARE SO GOOD!"
Depending on what mindframe the person who recieves this praise has he/she might feel that there is no need to improve, or at least not as much as one could.

The same thing goes the other way as well, people who say stuff like "OMG I COULD NEVER DO THAT!" might as well just stop doing anything. At the end of the day everything is down to practise, everyone can learn a draft, getting ideas can be practised to a certain extent as well, almost no one is hopeless, you just have to practise a lot and pick realistic short term goals.

I also think that many people here have the impression that people like Helm or me are superawesome, but in fact we are not as good as they might think, we just try to steadily improve with what we are doing.

Just my 2 Euro-cents and something to perhaps think about.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Soup

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Re: KON'S FINAL REDEMPTION SITE GOES ACCOUNT-BASED, ASKS FOR MONEY

Reply #53 on: February 21, 2007, 03:22:28 pm
I understand. Kon is slapping us in the face because he nows people can get great resources for free over here, yet he still opens his on site selling videos,

Offline Silver

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Re: KON'S FINAL REDEMPTION SITE GOES ACCOUNT-BASED, ASKS FOR MONEY

Reply #54 on: February 21, 2007, 03:29:38 pm
I also think that many people here have the impression that people like Helm or me are superawesome
Nahh  :P

Offline Feron

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Re: KON'S FINAL REDEMPTION SITE GOES ACCOUNT-BASED, ASKS FOR MONEY

Reply #55 on: February 21, 2007, 05:27:26 pm
I understand. Kon is slapping us in the face because he nows people can get great resources for free over here, yet he still opens his on site selling videos,

Alex is slapping no-one in the face.  He has the right to sell what he wants.  If you don't like it, don't sign up.

@ptoing:  superawesome.. you wish!! - your gonna have to settle for just 'some.   :P

Offline ptoing

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Re: KON'S FINAL REDEMPTION SITE GOES ACCOUNT-BASED, ASKS FOR MONEY

Reply #56 on: February 21, 2007, 05:42:17 pm
Haha, I am the last person in the world who would say that I am superawesome. :P At least I know in which points I have to improve.
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Offline Akzidenz

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Re: KON'S FINAL REDEMPTION SITE GOES ACCOUNT-BASED, ASKS FOR MONEY

Reply #57 on: February 21, 2007, 06:37:07 pm
As far as "turning a profit" being a sacred ground? I don't know - and even though I recognize that as hyperbole, I think it's off.

Personally, I've worked freelance more than enough to know that being a professional artist without a steady paycheck is terrifying. And there have been times where I've needed to pay the bills, so I've taken shit jobs that I normally wouldn't have. And I don't see it as "selling out" or anything even vaguely of the like, I just see it as trying to survive.

I don't personally know any professional artists who - outside of a stroke of luck and fame - have been able to get by without doing shit work from time to time. It seems universally accepted (or at the very least, accepted amongst most everyone I know) that you do the shit jobs in order to have the breathing room to do the ones that you love.

So, that's where my reasoning comes in. If Alex/Kon any professional artist needs to pay some bills, I feel his pain, and I wouldn't morally have a problem with him doing a lot of things. If it's unrelated to being hard up for work/money, if it's more of an ego issue, then - as an outsider, someone who doesn't know him and is speaking only to larger ideals here - I don't agree entirely with the morals behind that.

But, like I said before, it's his site. He's his own person. He should be allowed to do what he wants with his site and his life without being subjected to any sort of scrunity over his duties here.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2007, 06:40:14 pm by Akzidenz »
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Offline AlexHW

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Re: KON'S FINAL REDEMPTION SITE GOES ACCOUNT-BASED, ASKS FOR MONEY

Reply #58 on: February 21, 2007, 06:50:35 pm
I find it hard to comprehend why anyone should be told what they can or cannot be selling, which is the feeling I'm getting.
There's a dislike for what I am doing, because what is being sold could be given away for free, yes that is true for alot of things, but I have a choice like anyone else does to market their work any way they please, and so It is how I feel personally about my work which determines what I want to do with it. I feel good about what I do, and when I feel I have created something good there is a value which I attach to it.
At first when I was upgrading my website, I wasn't going to include such a payment system, and when I decided to make such a system, it wasn't originally intended for my work, but rather the work of everyone, as I had envisioned offering anyone who wanted a webspace to own a customizable webspace which acts like mine. People who aren't even pixel artists could have a site and market their own type of work. So to think that I am somehow taking advantage of pixel artists is simply wrong, but of course you didn't know that until now.
I have my site running as it is as a beta stage which will hopefully help things progress into the next stage where I can begin allowing individuals webspace where they can market their own content. But from the reaction, maybe you people wouldn't like such a thing?

Offline Feron

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Re: KON'S FINAL REDEMPTION SITE GOES ACCOUNT-BASED, ASKS FOR MONEY

Reply #59 on: February 21, 2007, 11:18:23 pm

I have my site running as it is as a beta stage which will hopefully help things progress into the next stage where I can begin allowing individuals webspace where they can market their own content. But from the reaction, maybe you people wouldn't like such a thing?


It's a cool idea, but i don't think you will make much out of it.  Out of general interest, please feel free to not-answer this question as many folk - like myself - do not like to talk about finance publicly, but has anyone signed up or paid for the services on your site yet?

I may be wrong, you might have just found a niche in the market, but there just seems to be so much free content available at the hand of a google search, for anyone to pay for it would be slightly absurd.

Good luck to you.  Screw morals - take what you can get!
« Last Edit: February 21, 2007, 11:20:48 pm by Feron »