AuthorTopic: KON'S FINAL REDEMPTION SITE GOES ACCOUNT-BASED, ASKS FOR MONEY  (Read 29800 times)

Offline Helm

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Re: KON'S FINAL REDEMPTION SITE GOES ACCOUNT-BASED, ASKS FOR MONEY

Reply #10 on: February 16, 2007, 08:24:42 pm
Helm, I don't see what is immoral about it. I think I can choose what I can or can't do with my personal business and I don't think that a seperate entity such as pixelation should have a say on how I should carry out my personal business.

You've made your position clear. You don't see any moral ambiguity in being part of a free knowledge environment like pixelation in a very high position, and then having a personal site that sells knowledge for money.

I personally disagree that this is okay. Both our positions are clear. I'd like to know what other people think, as this is quite interesting a development.

Offline Jad

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Re: KON'S FINAL REDEMPTION SITE GOES ACCOUNT-BASED, ASKS FOR MONEY

Reply #11 on: February 16, 2007, 08:27:22 pm
Is it not right for an artist to sell their work?
According to philosophy, it's not.
Art is a combination of genius and knowledge used to reach beauty without any other utility.
If you make money with your art, then it's art for people and not art for beauty. Thus you're being a sophist and Plato would have called you a pseudo-artist.


That's just philosophy tough...

According to PLATO's philosophy, yes.

There are other branches of philosophy that has no problem with art being something that you can sell. Using the term "philosophy" like "the bible" is a misuse of a whole bunch of mindsets which are all together called "philosophy". So yes, according to Plato, what you just said might've been right.

Kon: I have no problem with your personal website and business and do not think that it interferes with your work as a moderator on this site at all. That is my opinion.

I have no interest of buying your services, though :<
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Offline ptoing

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Re: KON'S FINAL REDEMPTION SITE GOES ACCOUNT-BASED, ASKS FOR MONEY

Reply #12 on: February 16, 2007, 08:32:43 pm
Stuff still displays strange here. As in text overlaying where it should not.

On the whole selling thing. I so far have not seen a single artists site that sells stuff like that, tiny thumbnail, pay to see more.
The only sites I seen where you pay for stuff like that is pornsites.
Also do you think your stuff is really that great to warrant someone paying money to see it? Just a thought.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline The B.O.B.

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Re: KON'S FINAL REDEMPTION SITE GOES ACCOUNT-BASED, ASKS FOR MONEY

Reply #13 on: February 16, 2007, 09:17:52 pm
   Ptoing took the words right outta' my mouth with the porn statement. However, I don't think this is a big deal. It doesn't mean much to me, since I've been to his site in the past, and I don't think I'm missing anything new, other than a few features, and pieces. Still though, Alex is entitled to his opinion, and property. He should run it the way he wants.
   As far as affecting morality of moderation on this site, I don't think anybody would notice, much less care if he charges for another site. He helps here for free, which is the focus of all artists needing general help for individual growth and maturity. His site is about him, and him only. It showcases his works, and his opinion. I believe he should run it however he pleases...
my back hurts...

Offline fil_razorback

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Re: KON'S FINAL REDEMPTION SITE GOES ACCOUNT-BASED, ASKS FOR MONEY

Reply #14 on: February 16, 2007, 09:18:28 pm
According to PLATO's philosophy, yes.
There are other branches of philosophy that has no problem with art being something that you can sell. Using the term "philosophy" like "the bible" is a misuse of a whole bunch of mindsets which are all together called "philosophy". So yes, according to Plato, what you just said might've been right.

I both agree and disagree with you. Yes my words were true according to Plato's Philosophy but you should not consider philosophy as various independant branches, some answers were found and remain true even if some people don't accept it (this is not concerning art, about which Plato did quite a few mistakes).
Sorry for being off topic, I'm stopiping this right now (or PM).

Offline Akzidenz

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Re: KON'S FINAL REDEMPTION SITE GOES ACCOUNT-BASED, ASKS FOR MONEY

Reply #15 on: February 16, 2007, 09:30:15 pm
Selling videos on the side is a little wack. I can understand the possible conflict of interest between that and Pixelation. I can understand why Helm has an issue with the morality of the motives behind Alex's new site - this is a dangerously small community as-is, we're all normally just here to help each other grow. For free, yeah?

But if this is really about Alex's moderating abilities/interests, then why is this being posted in General instead of the Mod forums? What's the point of posting some obscene all-caps bulletin? If you're really curious about how the community feels about this, as a moderator, an impartial and just observer, then why are all of your posts in this thread oozing passive-aggressive vitriol? If this is really a Mod issue, then just deal with it in the Mod forums. If this is a personal issue, then there's no reason to bring it here, deal with each other directly. If you're genuinely curious about how people feel, then don't try to make them feel the same way you do.

But other than that.. just chill out, guys. It's fucking pixel art. It's not worth this sort of bickering.
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Offline Helm

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Re: KON'S FINAL REDEMPTION SITE GOES ACCOUNT-BASED, ASKS FOR MONEY

Reply #16 on: February 16, 2007, 10:03:12 pm
if this is to be a moderator issue, I'd like it to not be disconnected by the feeling of the community. Some things have been in the past, and I don't desire this anymore. This is a chance to discuss openly a matter that could very well be settled behind-the-scenes. It is not an issue of the practise of moderation (which would be best delt in private, yes) but rather an issue of the moral obligations of moderators, on which I am no more an authority than anyone else. I don't have the power to take action anyway. This is why this is a discussion, and I am just one more person with an opinion, surrounded by the userbase, with their opinions.

Offline dragonrc

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Re: KON'S FINAL REDEMPTION SITE GOES ACCOUNT-BASED, ASKS FOR MONEY

Reply #17 on: February 16, 2007, 10:11:39 pm
I think he should be able to sell videos on his site, it's his buisness. Many things on the internet are only available for paying users (paypal, eBay ect.) I think Alex is doing the same thing and I think thats ok, but something feels wrong about this because other people are helping others here for free.
I think you should put some basic videos up for free and you should put up some videos for the more experienced for a small price.
But the book is another issue, I think it's a good idea and i might even buy it ;)

Offline Akzidenz

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Re: KON'S FINAL REDEMPTION SITE GOES ACCOUNT-BASED, ASKS FOR MONEY

Reply #18 on: February 16, 2007, 10:30:41 pm
if this is to be a moderator issue, I'd like it to not be disconnected by the feeling of the community. Some things have been in the past, and I don't desire this anymore. This is a chance to discuss openly a matter that could very well be settled behind-the-scenes. It is not an issue of the practise of moderation (which would be best delt in private, yes) but rather an issue of the moral obligations of moderators, on which I am no more an authority than anyone else. I don't have the power to take action anyway. This is why this is a discussion, and I am just one more person with an opinion, surrounded by the userbase, with their opinions.

I understand, completely, where you're coming from. And my opinion on all of this, expressed in that previous post, was also just one person's opinion. I don't want to come off as if I'm trying to be any sort of moral authority here. But I feel like there are two things being expressed, one being an open question to gauge a community reaction, and the other being a strong opinion on the same question. Also, personally, I feel like moderators' questions and opinions carry more weight, so it's worth being careful about making that distinction in posts like this.

As far as the question at hand is concerned, I don't have a firm opinion on it.

On the one hand, Pixelation is a place where we all come to learn. We learn, and teach, in hopes of inspiring others, because we love it, and because we realize that a scene this small requires a lot of love in order to flourish. When someone (anyone) opts to charge other artists for their services, it makes a gap in that community circle. Charging clients is totally acceptable, but I feel like the problem that people are having with Alex's website stems from the fact that he's charging other pixel artists. I understand this view, and agree with it.

On the other hand, it depends on your personal interpretation of what that community circle consists of. Is it entirely inclusive to all pixel artists? Is it a completely open community? Or does the community end when you leave the community websites? The reason that any of us have websites, at heart, is to showcase our work in order to get paid work (this is a generalization). So is it that absurd that someone's website might function solely (or at least mostly) as a means of generating income? Personally, I don't think that's absurd at all. And if Alex is able to make money and pay his bills by doing so, then all the more power to him. Whenever he's on Pixelation, he's here to help - his website is exclusively his, though.

For me, it's a grey area. I don't see this as a situation that can be boiled down to right and wrong. As a member of the site, I personally don't have any problem with Alex doing what he's doing on his own site. I don't feel like it's going to interfere, in any way, with his moderating abilities. And my guess is that there won't be many people who feel like his actions are treading such hallowed moral ground that he should be asked to hand in his moderator badge. That said, however, I think that it's ultimately up to the people running the site to determine what sort of community and image they want the site to have - and if they believe that moral boundaries have been crossed, it's their decision to make.
que faire quand on a tout fait, tout lu, tout bu, tout mangé
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Offline David

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Re: KON'S FINAL REDEMPTION SITE GOES ACCOUNT-BASED, ASKS FOR MONEY

Reply #19 on: February 16, 2007, 10:35:23 pm
I think Kon should do what he wants. Saying he shouldn't ask for money for a service is an opinion. Saying he can't ask for money is ridiculous.

One can donate his time to non-profit organizations, but when one goes to work one expects to get paid. I think we should wish him luck and be on our merry way.

EDIT: Oh, and what's the deal with the tabloid-like heading?
« Last Edit: February 16, 2007, 10:37:27 pm by David »