hmmm,
well. sorry now for the confusion
I guess sometimes things make better sense in my head then how they come out...
now lets see if i can answer the questions..
Question: ------------------
1. Are there a maximum allowed individual tiles? Or could we make 40 individual ones say? (As in no reuse of the same tile)
2. And say we make a big tree, can it expand over tiles as broken up into parts? You mention non-overlapping. edit, ok stupid me, I understand by what you meant with overlapping.
3. How about canvas shapes? It doesn't have to be rectangle? We could make some s-shape scene or something for example?
4. For example, a fallen over tree is possible? If we break it up into tiles right?
Answer1: About the 40 tile maximum, it refers to how many unique/original tiles you are allowed. You are allowed to use them repeatedly as much as you want. ex: you could make 1 unique grass tile and reuse it over and over to make a grassy land. This includes any flips / mirrors/ rotations / etc. Any alteration, or any change in a tile counts towards your 40 tile original tile limit.
Answer2: Each tile is only allowed to be 32 wide. Any foliage on the tree, or branches that extend out over tiles would count as a new tile. Imagine a bounding box that fits onto the 32x15 base. You could have your trunk on the first tile with afew leaves and beginning of branches, then the extended branches and leaves would probably need to fit onto a new tile..
ex:
on the left could be the bounding box idea. On the right is a quick example of a tree and how its branches extend onto different tiles. The change in colour of branches indicates its on a new tile..
Remember though, even though you may only have made a new tile for the branch, it could also double as another ground tile, or put something else on there.
The tile can have transparent places, so that you are able to have the branch overlap the tile behind it, instead of having to fill in the whole tile to make it look like the tile behind - hopefully that makes sense.
Answer3:
For your canvas shape. Please keep it as a square / diamond. Equal amount of tiles on all 4 sides.
Answer4: Yes, a fallen down tree is allowed. As long as you break it up into separate tiles, that is fine.
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one question, if I were to make a tree, would it count as one tile since the base of the trunk is contained on one ground tile?
Answer1: Only if the entire tree is contianed within the bounding box i mentioned above. Anything that would overlap in any other direction than up or down needs to be on a new tile. (up and down is just your z axis of the tile.)
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EDIT: sorry, I just checked the palette and the image isn't clean. Reads 30 colors or so. Here's the clean 16 color palette, and I also adjusted the lightness of a few shades so there's not near-identical colors. Do not use this palette in your art until Flaber makes an official call that this palette is to be used
Strange that it read 30 colours...
Anyways, you did clean up that pallete nicely. this will become the new official pallete. Use this one opposed to what i originally posted.
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I assume A) Every tile can and should be unique and B) concave tiles count as only one, even if another is showing behind it?
Edit: Wait. B) is kind of stupid... Sorry. C) Every entry must be a diamond shaped grid?
Answer1: You are allowed 40 unique tiles. You can reuse these tiles over and over, but there is a cap on 40 unique.
Answer2: Yes, they only count as one. Because concave would be dealing with the z axis (up and down) you are able to have tiles show behind it, because of the depth difference (transparency).
Answer3: the grid must be a diamond / square. all 4 sides must be equal.
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Why? Oh god why?
I hate making tiles or backgrounds and I never made an isometric picture, I'm gonna face snake and I only have 1 week.
I'm screwed ~_~
There are no backgrounds for this challenge... The whole scene / landscape needs to be constructed out of your tiles. Use 1 solid colour for the background where the tiles do not cover.
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How many unique tiles?
Does height parts count as tiles in case there is a set number of unique tiles?
No ramps or tile deformation allowed?
Answer1: 40 unique tiles max.
Answer2: Height parts? im assuming you mean change in elevation, or anything above the base tile i posted. Yes changes in elevation, height, depth, etc are all allowed.
Answer3: Im assuming by ramps you mean change in elevation, not colour ramps. Ramps are allowed. the map does not need to be flat. Change in elevations would be nice, and the transition tiles you use such as ramps, hills, slopes etc are allowed. They are still tiles, which go towards the tile count.
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The description puzzles me a bit. You can make 40 tiles or is it maximum 40 tiles used in the submission? Does 'not going outside the canvas' mean none of the tiles are to touch the picture's edges? Like a floating island of sorts? Does making it 'as tall as you like' imply that I can make a wall that spans from the bottom to the top of the submission with as much detail as I see fit and it still serves as a single tile? Do structures, like trees and rocks require separate tiles if they overlap other tiles upwards, but stay withing their 'tilespace'? Are walls to be made as tiles, and if so, shouldn't we have a template for them?
Answer1: 40 unique tiles, no reuse count (allowed to use those 40 unique tiles over and over ~ tileing)
Answer2:What i mean by does not go outside of the canvas is that your entire map must be visible. From the very top, to the very bottom, to each side. I dont care how big your square map is, as long as all tiles are visible.
ex:
http://www.pixeljoint.com/files/icons/full/factpj.png (hope you dont mind miascugh, that i used that for an example)
As you can see, the entire map, and every tile is visible. None is cut out by the edge of the canvas.
Answer3: hmmm. honestly, i did not think of the making it as tall as you wanted... i figured that the other 2 sizes (32x15) would keep the height in proportion. But that is a good point. There is now a height limit of 100px. Each tile does not need to fill the full 100px height, but that is the maximum. Since this is the maximum, each tile can have its own unique height / z axis as long as its within the 100px.
Answer4: If a tile overlaps upwards, you do not need a new tile for it. Transparency of the tiles is allowed so that you ARE able to overlap.
Answer5: Im not sure i know what you mean by are walls tiles. Anything you make in your scene must be in a tile form. If you want a wall in your scene, then use a recatangle / square iso tile. The height of it is up to you, as long as its under 100px.
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I was unaware the styles were going to become specific when I joined this thing.
each challenge will progressivly get more difficult.
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Well damn...Iso, and backgrounds. Heh, it seems everybody wasn't expecting this so soon. I'm predicting alot of confusion, with submissions on this one. Le sigh, even though these are 2 things that I am the most horrible at, I'm pretty sure it will be great practice. Plus it would seem I'm not the only one who has 0 background with tiling, or iso, so this would mean we're practically all in the same playing field here. No worries. A well rounded pixel artist has to learn iso some time or another. Good luck, one and all.
There are no backgrounds. The only background i want to see is of 1 solid colour. Anything you create for your scene / landscape of the "future lands / alien planets" needs to be done on the iso map with tiles. no backgrounds.
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I'm not a pansie! I'm a Tiger lily, ready to pounce on you with delicate touch! Beware!!!
Also, I too am confused a bit. So there isn't an exact canvas size, but more so, it just has to be within a limit of 40 tiles, and they can't touch the outer dimension of the canvas size we choose. Kinda' like a floating island, as Snake mentioned. I think, I'm slowly getting this, but again, I'm iso-retarded. Time to summon Jalonso for some studying up...
True, there is no set canvas size. Meaning you could focus on packing in alot of your detail and make an effective small map, or make an interesting landscape by creating a larger map. 40 unique tiles, but no limit on how many times you can reuse them.
Essentially, yes, it would be like a floating island. Similar to the link i gave for snake.
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Yeah i hate iso. I understand the tile thing, and all of that. But I'm still confused about things like trees. I know where the tree touches the ground count's as tiles, but what about the branches themselves, can i make a tree as big as i want, and not have it count towards the tiles?
I mentioned earlier up how to deal with the trees. Every time it steps into a new bounding box of a neighbouring tile, it becomes a new tile itself (unless directly above).
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I am terribly confused Embarrassed also with the trees. And what about longish grass hanging over a cliff (raised tile) that is inside the canvas?
Transparency is allowed, therefore if you have a raised tile with grass overhanging, it would be fine because of the transparency. Just make sure you double check your bounding box (mentioned the bounding box earlier in this reply).
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Cool. Oh I have question for "Nightmare on Helm's Street:" Since you are basically a third(or fourth, can't remember how many) of the judges, I've noticed that a lot of us have little background with iso, and are unclear with it's general rules. During the 2 week span that we are allowed to work on it, will it be possible to send a WIP in progress with questions as to what is legal? For example:
I send you a WIP and ask if any thing in the piece is legal or illegal, NOT critiques. This can go through the rest of the judges and they can give the OK as to send back a reply message saying which parts of the piece will be allowed. Again, NOT critiques, just simple replies stating which parts are legal, and a statement or clear set of the rules, as to why it's illegal. I understand this may effect judging, but I'm just presenting this example in case we send something at the last minute, and are automatically disqualified for breaking a rule of the challenge, when it could have been prevented in the beginning.
I guess Flaber, and the others will get a more clear statement of the rules once they get back. Thanks for holding this off, though, Helm...
hmmmm.... hmmm...
for this challenge... I will allow PMs regarding legal moves for the image. There are 4 judges, so take your pick as to whom you want to check with. We will not crit the piece, nor give advice. All we will say is if you did something wrong or not.
If you so choose to send a PM, call it, "ISO legal check"
then post your image and ask what you want checked. We will only answer what you ask for, even if we see other things that may be wrong. So please be specific with your questions, do not ask 'is there anything wrong, if you spot anything please tell'. rather ask specifically about the tree, or the grass overhang, etc.
again, this can go to any of the judges...
Alot of people are uncomfortable with ISO in general, so for this challenge, doing a double check will be allowed.
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Another question: The palette must be the same on the entire image (and we can only change four colours of that global palette) or do we have a palette per tile, therefore enabling us to change four coulours in one tile and four different ones in another?
Answer1: There is only 1 universal / global pallete for the entire image. You are only allowed 4 exchanges. Each tile does not get a specific pallete. You can use 1 or all 16 colours if you want. The pallete is a global pallete for the whole image, not individual tiles.
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Just another one from me Embarrassed We have to submit our tiles, does that mean we need to submit slight obstructed ones too? Meaming we have to complete all tiles individually even if they might be slightly obstructed by a tree or rock?
Answer1: Yes all tiles must be submitted, even if they are obstructed. Obstruction occurs when you make your map, not your individual unique tiles. When 1 tile may be obstructed, you may have used that same tile some other part in your map and it is completely visible. that does not mean it is 2 unique tiles... it is the same tile except 1 is fully visible and the other is covered.. does that make sense?
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i think the best way to send it in is with a mockup and the tiles as a separate set.
Yes. Please submit your tiles and edited pallete as a new image. therefore your submission will be in 2 pieces. first image is purely your finished product, your iso map. the second image will consist of all the unique tiles, and the pallete. for your pallete make sure you clearly define which original colour you changed to your own.
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i'm in the dark as far as animation goes. does every frame count as a tile? ir animation even allowed? do animated doors count as life/creatures?
no animation again.
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hopefully i answered alot of your questions.
im sorry again for being rather unclear. I knew what i was trying to say, and i guess it didnt come out the greatest. Lets keep this going for atleast 1 more day incase there are any more unanswered questions before the round restarts.
Im looking forward to all the entries. The different landscapes, and alien vegetation should be interesting.
As of right now, all the rule changes and such are only on this post. I will update the main front page once the challenge restarts (by then hopefully all the questions will be answered, and any rule changes / verification will have been made).
thanks helm for dealing with, and answering the questions
