AuthorTopic: Gabriel [WIP][Nudity]  (Read 6367 times)

Offline Indigo

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Gabriel [WIP][Nudity]

on: February 02, 2007, 02:23:31 am
Hello... its been a while since I've done any personal pixel-work.  Decided to try a bit of a different style here.  I'm calling it 'planular shading' for the lack of a better term; that is, using flat planes to define shape.  DaVinci tended to use this sort of thing a bit within his work.

the colours are more or less temporary to block out the shapes, so suggestions in that area are welcome.  My main concern at this point is are the wings.  I want something dynamic, yet not too generic/stereotypical in it's composition.  I've been playing around with different shapes, and this is where i'm at now.  I wasn't going to post this as a WIP, but I'm a bit stuck.  Help is appreciated.

Gabriel:


animated progress thus far:

Offline madartiststan

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Re: Gabriel [WIP][Nudity]

Reply #1 on: February 02, 2007, 02:31:08 am
It looks really great so far man. I'm loving the shading and detail on the anatomy of the body. The wings...hm...I'm not sure what you could do with that. Maybe just go with some highlights? :) Also if you don't mind do you think it would be possible if at some point you could show me the finer points of that technique?

Offline Stwelin

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Re: Gabriel [WIP][Nudity]

Reply #2 on: February 02, 2007, 02:31:20 am
Looks good, just some little nitpicks i have with it, hope the line helps.


The leg seemed a little bit too large, arms look short, muscle missing in far leg. For clarification the blue lines on the arm is where i think the center of the mass should be.

Offline Helm

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Re: Gabriel [WIP][Nudity]

Reply #3 on: February 02, 2007, 02:42:51 am
The sexual organs (if any) of the angels in christian doctorine might be shrouded in an inscrutable cloud of esoteric academia, but I hope they at least have nipples.

There's lots that can be said about anatomy, but it's up to you to express interest in getting this anatomically closer to reality and less to a comic book.

Offline Indigo

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Re: Gabriel [WIP][Nudity]

Reply #4 on: February 02, 2007, 03:03:39 am
thanks for the quick replies guys...

madartiststan:
Thanks man.  Yes, I'll be refining the wings as I go along, but i'm still at a dead end as to what shape and form I should use.

Stwelin:
I'm not entirely agreeing with your edit, especially dealing with the quads.  The quads are abnormally large and not just by a 'bit'... about twice the size of normal proportions, and this was intentional.  I was looking into some of zach's sketches and noticed an interesting thing he does with the legs.  Tried to apply a bit of that into this piece  and I'm pretty sure the arms are about a good length.  When relaxed, the fingertips should reach about mid-thigh.  and I'm pretty sure this is the case, but its hard to tell with this awkward pose.  I'll lengthen the arms and see how it turns out.  The back leg crit is very valid, I'll fix that as well.

Helm:
Its needless to say you are not fond of such anatomy styles that I use - as you've mentioned it many times throughout my pieces - however I'm more curious of your input on composition; an area you'd be extremely helpful to me.  This piece was not designed to portray reality by any means.  Read my first post for areas I seek help in which you could be very useful.

Offline Helm

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Re: Gabriel [WIP][Nudity]

Reply #5 on: February 02, 2007, 03:11:00 am
What about composition? Everything reads nicely, limbs aren't muddying up anything, wings are clear - while rough -, the movement of the piece seems nice. I have no further input on this.

Feather rendering is tiring but doable, check resources of actual birds (something big like a great eagle here perhaps) and the technique of it will be discussed when this piece has moved onwards.

Which is why I said anatomy. Only things that look bad about it to me are about anatomy. They do so because in order to work in a stylized anatomical scheme one has to be quite comfortable with proper anatomy. From my point of view, I see things which look like you are mirroring your references but do not understand why they are as they are, therefore straining towards plain old errors, not style.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2007, 03:12:39 am by Helm »

Offline Indigo

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Re: Gabriel [WIP][Nudity]

Reply #6 on: February 02, 2007, 03:18:10 am
fair enough...

Quote
There's lots that can be said about anatomy
Help me out here and name out some main problems you see.  Believe it or not, I have never read a comic book in my life, nor do I reference often from such.  I almost always reference life-examples in which I translate into this style.  It shouldn't be too hard to decipher between what was stylistic choice over pure mistake. If there is something you see wrong, please name them so I can fix these mistakes instead of just mentioning they are there.  I'm not too worried about the rendering of the wings at this point (however that will most definately be a pain), but more of the form of them.  I'm not sure how 'eagle' to go with this vs 'angel'. 

EDIT:
oh yes, and nipples are definately going to be there :P  I just haven't added them yet.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2007, 03:20:55 am by Indigo »

Offline Helm

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Re: Gabriel [WIP][Nudity]

Reply #7 on: February 02, 2007, 03:23:28 am
here's some anatomical errors:

Neck too long, and not placed in the middle of the body.

No collarbones

Wrist at broken angle

That slab between chest and abs, while noted on some bodytypes is too 'slablike' and not molded into a belieavable shape yet.

"Sixpack under armpit" If you're trying to signify ribcage, this isn't a very good way to go about it.

Muscle segmentation on upper leg seems like sliced beef more than human tendon tissue, furthermore, crazy-huge

Lower leg too long. When bent like that it's easy to tell because the heel is pretty much resting in the middle one's ass

Lower legs skinny, though intentional, problem mentioned about stylistics versus comfort with reality make them seem like error more than choice

Feet extremely small.



http://sagehen.ucnrs.org/Photos/animals/birds/slides/Owl%20with%20outstretched%20wing.JPG

useful for wing study
« Last Edit: February 02, 2007, 03:26:18 am by Helm »

Offline Joseph

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Re: Gabriel [WIP][Nudity]

Reply #8 on: February 02, 2007, 03:35:13 am
Helm:
I do realize you're helping him with anatomy, but pointing out everything wrong with this piece isnt completely necessary.  Do remember this is a wip and keep in mind that this is Indigo we're talking about, he has not only a mind of his own creating his own styles and throwing them down on a pixel canvas, but he has created some pretty amazing pieces and knows a lot more than other about anatomy.  One thing I know about Indigo is that his wips usually do suck; however, his finished product very rarely dissatisfies.
edit-Oh, and your comment about his wrist...I tried bending my wrist that way and it works perfect.  So either there's really nothing wrong with it or I too have a broken wrist.

Indigo:
Obviously there are a lot of problematic pieces to this art and I know that you see them as well as everyone else.  Helm does have some very good points but I think he may be pointing them out a little early.  You're usually not the guy to be running for help so i'm pretty damn confident you'll turn out with a magnificent piece...as always.  Good luck with it.

Offline Helm

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Re: Gabriel [WIP][Nudity]

Reply #9 on: February 02, 2007, 03:42:14 am
 ??? I'm just trying to help.

Quote
I do realize you're helping him with anatomy, but pointing out everything wrong with this piece isnt completely necessary.

I thought that was exactly what is necessary.

Offline Cow

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Re: Gabriel [WIP][Nudity]

Reply #10 on: February 02, 2007, 03:52:44 am
Not to mention that Indigo asked for anatomy critique from Helm specifically, but anyways:

I like the foreshortening on the leg. But in general, the legs seem way too bulky. The hair looks quite cool so far.

[/pointless post]

Offline Indigo

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Re: Gabriel [WIP][Nudity]

Reply #11 on: February 02, 2007, 03:54:40 am
there is nothing wrong with the points he mentioned.  I asked for them and he delivered.  Getting him to mention them, however, was quite the process. :P

Offline AdamAtomic

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Re: Gabriel [WIP][Nudity]

Reply #12 on: February 02, 2007, 06:50:09 am
Nice!  The only thing I'll add is that the highlights on his nose make it appear to have a slightly different axis than the rest of his head - one possible solution:



Keep at it!

Offline flaber

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Re: Gabriel [WIP][Nudity]

Reply #13 on: February 02, 2007, 08:35:43 am
you mentioned you didnt really have an idea / direction for the wings

Not entirely sure this fits completly, or if this is what you were looking for...
but i did this up quickly for you as a suggestion for you.


(outer layer of feathers should be longer, but i forgot to change that)
The feather forms and such arnt clean, but i only meant to show you an idea to take it. a possible direction you may wish.
I can help you later on with the wings more once you start on them.
perhaps this might help.

ill come back and crit alittle later as it is late right now.
just wanted to get that wing up for ya
« Last Edit: February 02, 2007, 08:40:53 am by flaber »

Offline big brother

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Re: Gabriel [WIP][Nudity]

Reply #14 on: February 02, 2007, 05:30:10 pm
For composition, I'd watch out for bad tangents between the inner edge of the left (our left) wing and the curled fist. Also, the tiny sliver of negative space between the outermost edge of the right wing and the right fist creates unnecessary tension.

Offline vellan

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Re: Gabriel [WIP][Nudity]

Reply #15 on: February 02, 2007, 05:46:30 pm
some quick crit:

- his right thigh is just enormous. it really throws the entire form out of whack.
- his arms, specifically the forearms, feel a bit shorter than they should be
- right fist is ~2x bigger than the left fist and at an impossible angle (as mentioned by helm)
- also as mentioned by helm, i too cannot understand why his back calf/foot are so very tiny. I agree it comes off as a mistake rather than a style. The neck, on the other hand, comes off more as a style (though i do think it is too long).

To the people saying "don't list everything its WIP"...you post a WIP to get crit on everything....that is the whole point. When people see a piece like this that already looks amazing and has great potential, they want to help make it the best.

I am new here, but the quality of critique and desire to make people better is why i am here all the time since joining.

Offline Stwelin

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Re: Gabriel [WIP][Nudity]

Reply #16 on: February 03, 2007, 04:42:21 pm
- his right thigh is just enormous. it really throws the entire form out of whack.
- his arms, specifically the forearms, feel a bit shorter than they should be
- right fist is ~2x bigger than the left fist and at an impossible angle (as mentioned by helm)
- also as mentioned by helm, i too cannot understand why his back calf/foot are so very tiny. I agree it comes off as a mistake rather than a style. The neck, on the other hand,

Yeah, I addressed a lot of these things with my line, but Indigo seems pretty stuck on keeping them the way they are. Oh well.

Offline Indigo

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Re: Gabriel [WIP][Nudity]

Reply #17 on: February 03, 2007, 09:31:46 pm
nah, stewlin... I'm only set on the thigh thing....  Most other crits are being adressed, as much as I can.  Update soon

Offline AdamAtomic

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Re: Gabriel [WIP][Nudity]

Reply #18 on: February 05, 2007, 01:27:22 am
If you're gonna keep the thigh size, I'd recommend softening that quad definition line - that combined with the massive size makes it hard to read - almost like its two separate limbs or something.  I don't understand how you could have a shadow that dark on the top surface of his leg anyways with your lighting angle :P