AuthorTopic: Mental Image Crit.  (Read 8267 times)

Offline David

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Re: Mental Image Crit.

Reply #10 on: October 09, 2005, 03:38:12 am
I've been waiting to see it since your first post.

The reason I didn't take part very much aside from my first post is simply because I'm already up to my ears in Castlevania. I've already been influenced by the things you've posted, and have my idea of the character. When you posted your sprite (if you do) I was going to go over it by how it compares to the reference, and then at an "artistic level."

I think maybe just make the objective of the topic more clear and more prominent.

Offline Helm

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Re: Mental Image Crit.

Reply #11 on: October 10, 2005, 03:26:27 am
I haven't been posting here because I find this thread generally purposeless as much as it is uninteresting to me personally. Not an attack or anything. Just not seeing what you're trying to do, and not really caring about castlevania or their stylistics so much.

Offline crab2selout.png

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Re: Mental Image Crit.

Reply #12 on: October 11, 2005, 01:26:20 am
I wanna see the new alucard too, and I have a legitimate reason for not posting in this thread, that reason being that I'm a pixel artist(i.e. some guy who can do AA, but only apply that to chibi RPG people from lack of expertise in everything else. No offense meant to the true artists who like pixels.)

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Mental Image Crit.

Reply #13 on: October 11, 2005, 01:56:06 am
I haven't been posting here because I find this thread generally purposeless as much as it is uninteresting to me personally. Not an attack or anything. Just not seeing what you're trying to do, and not really caring about castlevania or their stylistics so much.

heh, cool helm, you shouldnt post if you dont care for the thread :p I think that's generally the problem.This just wasnt a very interesting idea for anyone except me to begin with, I guess I'll give this kind of thread another stab later.

Though...just so you know, the idea was t show the thought process I go trough when translating a design into sprite, I dont think I did a very god job tho :p

David, that's the other problem I think I had, if anyone DOES feel related, I made it too hard to get involved.....I guess I'll keep that in mind the next time

I think it also was...that I didnt notice just how damned inactive this place is, I thought with BluMunkee,3trnBlu, helm, splat, lief, and a few of the new ones like garth and david in here this could be pretty active, but I was wrong, actually almost none of them is truly active :p.

EDIT: hey...crab, just read your post....if you had something to say, then say it...I dont care :p wether you are a pixelartist or not is irrelevant, that's why I tried to give people who might just be into fashion, or people intop japanese culture phenomenoms......it obviously didnt work:p if you didnt have anything to say to begin with, then you dont have anything to be excusing yourself for.

ok, I'll just post the damn thing for Dave and Kon now...and anyone who might be lurking around :p

the idea was to be faithful to his spriteset, and I chose  his punch anim to extract a frame from it
which I thought would make the most sense as a Figther sprite.

then I grabbed a style I thought would fit since it had the simplicity, and the right style to make alucard animateable AND correct to his details. in making him simple, I utterly failed, I got too caught up in making him precise

that's what I came up with


the idea was
(+) x = But...I dont think I made it at all. this was supposed to be animateable, and I dont think the final product is. I actually redrew it about a couple times until I came to this, I am...fairly happy with the details in this one and his face, but not the overdone detail

I...kinda redrew it again, following ayami's aestehics a bit less, and I'm liking that version a bit more, it's still not nearly done..just a bunch of shapeless blobs :p

« Last Edit: October 11, 2005, 02:09:32 am by Camus »

Offline Helm

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Re: Mental Image Crit.

Reply #14 on: October 11, 2005, 06:34:49 am
I posted just because you were 'why aren't people replying to this?' Just to answer that question from my point of view, because it felt you were calling people out. I've been busy as HELL lately but I'm still around, and i do cc as I will now. Dunno about the others. If your favourite people aren't hanging currently, then I guess you better just do what pixelation is about and critique random people, no?

now, after all this, about the sprite. I will not discuss matters partaining to your thought process or if you're close to your reference material or whatever. All this, while interesting ( to some ) are beyond the scope of the meager pixel art critique I have for you. So I'll leave the theosophical debates to those caring, and i'll discuss antialias and crap.

As you said, this is not animatable by anyone sane ( or not severily korean ). At least it's not buffered to hell and antialiased, but you've used so many shades and shapes it's more like painting than sprite art so yeah, I'll treat it like static piece.

first of all, awesome job on the pose and the characterization. the colours are mostly nifty too, although the palette is not unified or balanced. But the strengths by far outweigh the cons when it comes to the palette theme.

few points though. It's too dark, and you're wasting an awesome amount of shades here. 30 colours for something that could be 16 when unified a bit. For animation work especially, 16 should be highest for these sizes. I'd do it in 12-4 personally and lose all the gray shades and merge hair, skin and orange tints. You know what I'm talking about. Even have 3 duplicate colours.

about shapes:

random stuff bad. lines, blotches and small randomish vectors. Volumetrics should make sense. Maybe as part of an animation stream, random shapes bring more vividness in a few cases, but I'm discussing this as static.

scribbly line had me stumped. If it's the whip, it's not done.

the whole of the cape is done very badly. a cape drapes from shoulder to shoulder, creating realistic folds and ripples.

about colour:

shiny shiny stuff and helm likes shiny but a lot of the highlights make zero sense. On the thumb for example. Boot finishes too. He's wearing leather I guess but still, overkill. That you don't mellow out the speculars by AAing them doesn't help.

which brings me to lack of AA. I know you thought animation, but it's unanimatable anyway. Might as well AA it. Looks fine at 1x zoom due to so many shades, but from an anal retentive ( aren't we all pixel artists? ) point of view, this suffers a lot there. You buffer generally fine, like SNK stuff, but at places even your buffering is nonexistent. Mainly at highlights again.


Just thoughts and stuff.

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Mental Image Crit.

Reply #15 on: October 11, 2005, 10:42:44 pm
Sigh, then I guess that just means that the scope of this board is falling short for me. And I dont mean that pixelart is too last week for me, I'll continue to do pixelart, but there is more to any pic than AA, or it's pallete, there are things far more important to consider when making a picture, be it pixeled or not.

I dont understand why the staff refuses to grow up and expand pixelatio-opolis's mindset, because if we keep this a niche little board obsessed about details nobody understand.....the board will only deteriorate, and exclude the good artists further and further.

Quote
I posted just because you were 'why aren't people replying to this?' Just to answer that question from my point of view
Yeah, I see that, I know I did that, and I apreciated your feedback, that was exactly what I wanted to hear at that moment, maybe I was un-necesarily whiny at my reply to you because I was paranoic about people starting to pull excuses, I did not mean to say "if you're gonna post that, dont post at all", I just meant to say that I agreed with you in your reasoning to not reply.

BTW, kon, I am sorry I didnt mention you as one of the interesting oldbies, I guess that was because you were the one interesting oldby that did reply, I do apreaciate your feedback very much here, and that's why I made the questions directed to you only. but a one on one talk isnt enough to keep up a topic like this, thanks a lot for your input though, your input would have been a great apport to the topic, had it been more than two sides *thumbs up*

eh, Helm, I understand it's not animateable, but it's still the focus.

Quote
first of all, awesome job on the pose and the characterization. the colours are mostly nifty too, although the palette is not unified or balanced. But the strengths by far outweigh the cons when it comes to the palette theme.
I completly agree, the pallete does lack a bit more refining, even though I am happy with each separate color ramp, the whole pallete feels far too blue at the moment. And thank you for the comment on characterization, I did try :p

One of the reasons I made use of so many colors is that the cape is supposed to be recolorable, and I wanted to keep that since it's almost a character trait, if you notice all the colors for the cape are unique even though several are exactly the same as many others in the piece in many places.The other reason, is that I dont belive in sticking to a bit-size, the only reason I limit my colors at all is to asure it's animateable. Though I do accept there is certain excess of colors here.

About shapes:
Ok, several points to make here. this is one of the reasons I did this topic, the draping was done the way it was done to reflect Ayami's work. she does an excessive amount of folds, and she does them in a very stilized way, I still did not make them completly irrational like she does, but I did a certain level of exageration to mimic her.

Quote
the whole of the cape is done very badly. a cape drapes from shoulder to shoulder, creating realistic folds and ripples.
You refuse to consider there's an art direction when making critique. first of all, alucard is subtly holding one side of the cape with his fingers, so actually it should drape from shoulder to hand, secondly, the cape's draping was done according to the example in the cape right above it.
The scribbly line...it'd have made more sense if you had seen what I had planned for other frames, it was my way of implying it was a reflective surface whitout using the highlights. the idea is that on reflective surfaces you often get highligts that dont quite follow the  way the light is spread in the midtones/shadows, and the scribbly line was meant to represent that.

The overkill highlights were my way of saying it was leather. have a better idea? tell me.

I understand that from a static point of view, I should want to AA it, but it's just not gonna happen, this is simply a failure, if I ever work on this again it will be to make it more animateable.

Your critique encompasses why I felt the need to do this, there's always more to a sprite than what one person can critique whitout any knowledge of it's purpose, regardless of how skilled that person is. We have to make this place adapt to that or it will become stagant, sine this place IS mainly about gameart, and gameart is always tied to a project, and consequently an artistic direction. It's too bad because I remade this sprite specifically to prove that point, but it seems pixelation refuses to grow up.

So, for the first time let me say I'm not looking for C&C, the point of this piece was for it to be C&C'd according to a discussion preceeding the piece, the discussion didnt happen so there's no point in C&Cing it, I only showed it for those who might still want to see the sprite.

I replied to helm's since it was such good C&C anyway, and I hadnt said anything, but please dont C&C.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2005, 10:57:46 pm by Camus »

Offline Darien

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Re: Mental Image Crit.

Reply #16 on: October 11, 2005, 11:11:31 pm
I hadn't posted earlier because I wasn't sure about how to go discussing it.  Or, rather, I didn't think anything I'd have to say would contribute too much, as you and Kon said more than I would think to say, anyway.  But I will still do what you say here:

So to make it diferent this time around I thought I'd start a discussion just about my idea of what alucard looks like BEFORE posting the sprite, I figure that if you already have an idea of what the sprite should look like before you see it, you'll crit it that much harder. hence the topic name

This pose is awkward for the character.  Alucard, at least as he seems to me, is a steadfast, confident character.  Your pose has him wobbly; his arms bend awkwardly, his waist juts out, and he's standing on his toes.  He should act as if he was the shit, and he knows it.  He lacks that deadly hypnotic vampire style.  His face looks too angry, he should be nonchalant and cool.  If this were animated, I wouldn't think that whatever action he made would look like it was easy for him.  Alucard should be one to do some amazing stunt, and then brush it off as if he just bought some groceries. 

I know you say don't critique, but I did find this interesting, and I just think your expectations of what would come of this were a bit too high.

Offline Akira

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Re: Mental Image Crit.

Reply #17 on: October 12, 2005, 08:27:29 am
Is this pretty much a sprite vs. promo type thing?
If so then the reason that the sprite doesn't share the same details as the promo is because its impossible. Because its a game sprite it had to fit certain criteria.
Your representation is like four times the original just to fit in the details. Doing animations this big would be uneconomical murder. Not just for your sprite but for all the backgrounds, enemies, items, etc. that would have to be bigger to compensate.

Your sprite is pretty killer as a stand alone piece. I agree with helm on the cape though. The promo is much slicker then yours. With yours the material seems to be puffy and too dark. Looking at the sprite and promos the inside of the cape is much brighter.

I know you've said no C&C and all so perhaps you should offer this up as a commercial critique or something instead?
thanks Dogmeat!