AuthorTopic: Force Majeure - Indie shmup demo  (Read 8983 times)

Offline Helm

  • Moderator
  • 0110
  • *
  • Posts: 5159
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Asides-Bsides

Re: Force Majeure - Indie shmup demo

Reply #10 on: February 02, 2007, 06:12:36 pm
Quote
But that begs the question: What IS me? Wink I practically grew up in the small crampy arcade sections of shopping malls, video stores and billiard halls, so the 90's coin-op aesthetic is something that lies very close to me.

Same here, but it's not all there is - or should be - when you make a video-game, is it? There should be conscious art-direction, not just 'what I grew up with'... I explain below.

Quote
positive gaming experience by feeding into a his nostalgia. I'm wired like that myself, so it felt natural to approach it this way.

Nostalgia will occur anyway because as you said these things are within you anyway and if you make a videogame it'll have your experience with them in it. Do you *really* need generic anime boob females for pilots? Do you *really* need a Capcom font? Do you *really* need Metal Slug explosions?


Perhaps even when using old-style restrictions for graphics, the intention should not to go for a 'retro' feel but go with that art style because it accentuates other, quantifiable qualities you want in your game besides 'it's nostalgic!'... Nostalgia, and appeals to such should be the work of the subconscious I feel much more than direct intent. Having said this I've made a game that looks exactly like a c64 game, so perhaps it's not so much the 'I go for nostalgia' that annoys me as it is how extremely tired the specific art-style is. I didn't make the c64 game because it's nostalgic (I never had a c64 at home as a child) but because I felt the gameplay would benefit from those limitations and so on...

But this specific art-style just seems really boring to me and all I can think about someone copying it is because 'it's cool!'. Take it like the opinion of one of your audience, I'm sure thousand others will find it awesome, look anime pilots that wink at me when I select them and Progear brighty bullets!

I wish more shooters had atypical aesthetics, and that doesn't mean just go abstract vectory on me. How about a shooter with graphics that look like Herge's Tin-Tin or something?

Quote
I certainly appreciate your point of view on this though, however I can't help to feel that it's part of a more general frustration about pixel-artists sort of lingering around whatever Capcom did back in '96, without ever pushing forward?

In the end I guess it's more this than anything else. Metal Slug and Street Fighter (and SNK fighters) being considered the pinnacles of 2d visual aesthetics in action games and so on in this forum for a long while and I guess I'm finally knee-jerking over this limitation. I love the hell out of the original Metal Slug games and I like SFII a lot etc, but do we need to see copies? Because art-wise, your game looks like a copy, I'm sorry to say.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2007, 06:14:49 pm by Helm »

Offline sharprm

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 660
  • Karma: +0/-3
  • INTP/INTJ
    • View Profile

Re: Force Majeure - Indie shmup demo

Reply #11 on: February 03, 2007, 03:26:05 am
Managed to beat the boss. Its got really good graphics and sound but the movement is tooooooo slow.
Modern artists are told that they must create something totally original-or risk being called "derivative".They've been indoctrinated with the concept that bad=good.The effect is always the same: Meaningless primitivism
http://www.artrenewal.org/articles/Philosophy/phi

Offline pkmays

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 336
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • dawn patrole mole
    • View Profile

Re: Force Majeure - Indie shmup demo

Reply #12 on: February 03, 2007, 04:25:25 am
Despite my issues with the game, I've been playing it a lot. Difficulty issues are resolved playing on an arcade stick. Can beat the level with three credits on the fast ship, 5 credits on the slow one. Having the ship move slower when the gun is jammed down is a nice touch, and I like the risk vs reward medal system, but again, with the speed issues, I find the risk is usually too high.

So the second plane's bombs actually do pack more of a punch, and they are effective against ground enemies and the occasional weak goon who ducks under you. I think the angle could be a little less steep though, they seem to lose trajectory a bit too early to be really useful.

There's something funky going on with the boss's sprite (who's a chump once you learn his pattern). It's got an ugly broken line somewhere towards the front.

Playing through the level several times, I'm impressed with the amount of detail. The ship in the ocean and the birds flying away from the coast are especially cool.

I can see how playing this a lot can make you overlook the speed issue, but it's still there.

Funny enough, I happen to know the guy who is doing the graphics on Shining Storm, another Autofire 2007 entry.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2007, 04:31:29 am by pkmays »

Offline Chris_Alex

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 20
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Force Majeure - Indie shmup demo

Reply #13 on: February 03, 2007, 06:08:23 am
Unlike everyone here, im afraid i just dont have anything bad to say, even less regarding the graphics; i think they are superb, and the detail that Pkmays mentioned above, striked me on the first run.

I love the feel, and look of the game to the very bone, and dont find it boring at all, like Helm, and, yes it brings all sort of sweet game memories to me.

All i could offer are some gameplay features,

Like making the chain system more noticeable, in fact, that was something i didnt noticed until the second run, and even then it distracts me to look to the bottom left of the screen, to check the screen status; it should be above, next to the power up energy, or shown on screen when a ship is destroyed (despite it may look a bit more crowded).

The slower speed of the ship when the gun is jammed should be even more noticeable than right now, theres not enough difference right now.

Add a laser beam (blue for nostalgia sakes) and a homing missile as a sidearm, and i will be in heaven.

Im eagerly awaiting for a full release, and really you should be proud of what you have in your hands.

Cheers, and kudos to ya!

EDIT: 484.085 and lost only one life against the boss right before the end!, wich reminds me, when you start gaining up lives (wich i think are a bit too much) they become unvisible because of the power up bar.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2007, 08:50:12 am by Chris_Alex »

Offline junkboy

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 270
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • jnkboy
    • jnkboy
    • View Profile

Re: Force Majeure - Indie shmup demo

Reply #14 on: February 03, 2007, 01:08:34 pm
9_6: Indeed it doesn't do much right now, but this will be rectified for the full-version (or if we decide to release a meatier demo later on).

Helm: I didn't go with this "style" on a whim or just because I thought it was "cool" (even if I do think it is :D). It was in fact a very conscious decision that I arrived at (believe it or not) after months of conceptualizing. Style-wise this game has been all over the place. The furthest away it got from the inital concept was probably when it was all going to be hand-drawn and dystopian, similar to Moebius' "Arzach", with a dude flying on a lizard and all. That would've been diffent and kinda interesting, but for various reasons (some of wich I don't wish to go into detail about on a public forum) it became this instead. And, well, I'm pretty happy about it.

sharprm: Do you think it's too slow even for Bravo/Red ship?

pkmays: I'm glad you kept playing :) I agree about the bomb angle, it feels a bit too steep ATM. This among other things will be fixed.

Broken lines in the boss sprite? Do you mean after you've destroyed him or while he's still active? The "destroyed"-frame was just a quick butchjob on my part to make it to the deadline, so there's a lot of work to be done there for sure. I can't find any broken lines on the other sprite-frames though.

Chris_Alex: Congratulations, my friend. To my knowledge you currently hold the World Record in this game! :D You beat the previous score by 11285 points.

And thank you for your comments and gameplay suggestions. There won't be any lasers since we're going for a chunkier low-tech feel with the weapons, but homing missiles is defenitley on our to do-list. Also, I liked your idea for making the chain system more noticeable. Might be too busy, but I think it's worth a try.

Offline Helm

  • Moderator
  • 0110
  • *
  • Posts: 5159
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Asides-Bsides

Re: Force Majeure - Indie shmup demo

Reply #15 on: February 03, 2007, 03:15:19 pm
All that I can say on the subject is that if this looked like a Moebius comic or something it would be infinitely more interesting in my eyes, but as I said, I'm just one guy on a forum. Others I'm sure will like it as it is more.

Offline sharprm

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 660
  • Karma: +0/-3
  • INTP/INTJ
    • View Profile

Re: Force Majeure - Indie shmup demo

Reply #16 on: February 04, 2007, 08:27:53 am
I read through the topic again and so now I know that holding the fire button makes you slower. I'm used to games where it doesn't
matter if you hold it continuously. Now that I know I played through and didn't find speed an issue anymore.

I like the bomb because its good for when you're on top of those slow planes. If its fired forward (like it looks like it is) it can
land in front of the plane but if it is just dropped it should land directly below or behind (behind if take into account air resistance). I'm
just saying maybe where it lands makes it looks odd but then again it could be the way it rotates.

This game has really great graphics but they are really hard to notice because the gameplay is really engrossing. The music is also really
good, at first i thought it was adlib or something but later i realised it was mod. The character select screen music has good music. Specially like the music when you have to continue but
you have no credits.

The gameover screen (the pale one with the smoke) is really boring. I'm sure you'll replace it and I was thinking it would be good to
have two different game over screens, one for each pilot with them climbing out of the wreckage all bloody and stuff like when you
lose at street fighter.

Look forward to the full version hope it has forest levels and stuff.
Modern artists are told that they must create something totally original-or risk being called "derivative".They've been indoctrinated with the concept that bad=good.The effect is always the same: Meaningless primitivism
http://www.artrenewal.org/articles/Philosophy/phi

Offline Xion

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1551
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • FourbitFriday

Re: Force Majeure - Indie shmup demo

Reply #17 on: February 04, 2007, 08:49:44 am
Great game. I like the slower controls. Personally, it makes dodging much easier.

Offline junkboy

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 270
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • jnkboy
    • jnkboy
    • View Profile

Re: Force Majeure - Indie shmup demo

Reply #18 on: February 04, 2007, 07:44:58 pm
The gameover screen (the pale one with the smoke) is really boring. I'm sure you'll replace it and I was thinking it would be good to
have two different game over screens, one for each pilot with them climbing out of the wreckage all bloody and stuff like when you
lose at street fighter.

That's a great idea, I'll probably steal it.  ;D

And yes, the second level will be set in the wilderness. Forests, lakes, mountains. Pretty much a complete nature reserve tour, with the added enjoyment of blowing it all up.

Offline Opacus

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 971
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Entangled
    • View Profile
    • www.jimjansen.net

Re: Force Majeure - Indie shmup demo

Reply #19 on: February 04, 2007, 10:40:06 pm
The gameover screen (the pale one with the smoke) is really boring. I'm sure you'll replace it and I was thinking it would be good to
have two different game over screens, one for each pilot with them climbing out of the wreckage all bloody and stuff like when you
lose at street fighter.

That's a great idea, I'll probably steal it.  ;D

And yes, the second level will be set in the wilderness. Forests, lakes, mountains. Pretty much a complete nature reserve tour, with the added enjoyment of blowing it all up.
Bloody and stuff should include shredded clothing :D