AuthorTopic: [WIP] Grafics for a platformer-rpg (Read 21500 times)

philipptr · **on:** January 31, 2007, 10:47:22 pm

So after coming up with the strange idea to make a rpg from a jump'n'run perspective I've started doing a little mockup for it.
The ground is made of 16*16 tiles while the tree is just one big sprite. It's a bit inspired by Helm's mockup from the video-thread.

I would really like to have some c+c on the trunk, especially shading-wise, since I think it looks pretty flat. All other critique is appreciated aswell.

I came to learn

(The thing in the background is supposed to be light shining through a tree, which will be most likely removed as soon as I have a better idea for a background.)

Edit: (newest version)

fil_razorback · **Reply #1 on:** January 31, 2007, 10:53:15 pm

Regarding the flatness of the tree, I think you should shade it more like a cylinder....basically darkening the side oposite to the lightsource.
Atm, except the spirals' volume, you shaded it like a plank.

pkmays · **Reply #2 on:** January 31, 2007, 11:01:46 pm

I'm really digging the palette and style. Very surreal. I suggest utilizing more geometric shapes in the leaves of the tree. Something distinct but not too repetitive.

Joseph · **Reply #3 on:** February 01, 2007, 08:07:51 am

im in love with the one larger rock on the left, otherwise the rest needs work.

philipptr · **Reply #4 on:** February 01, 2007, 08:21:19 pm

Thanks very much for the answers, I made a rough edit on some things:

Quote from: fil_razorback on January 31, 2007, 10:53:15 pm

Regarding the flatness of the tree, I think you should shade it more like a cylinder....basically darkening the side opposite to the lightsource.
Atm, except the spirals' volume, you shaded it like a plank.

I found it kinda hard to combine both, the spirals' volume-shading and the cylinder-style shading (sounds strange but I think you know what I mean). I tried to make to make a rough sketch of the new shading on the lower part of the tree(unclean and without any dithering), which looks imo less flat but still not perfect. Somehow I think it looks like a line is going around the tree rather than the tree being twisted itself.

I also made another test for the leafs in the middle (which imo looks best). Any critique on that, or do you think I can make all leafs in this style?

MoD · **Reply #5 on:** February 01, 2007, 10:14:23 pm

The tree looks like one of the cardboard paper towel rolls. Your first version wasn't far from the mark, though, from what I can tell. Just move the highlight to a position farther down on the cylinder and make sure the shadow follows the contours of the tree-spiral and isn't just at a 45-degree angle.

The leaves on the left and middle look like viable options, while those on the right look like their size is too fixed to convey them as being a surface wrapped around the leaf-blob's contours. The left leaves look a bit odd in the lower bit, though, they lose all conveyance of shape there and break down into dot-dithering, whereas in the layer above you have beautiful portrayal of the light hitting leaves and the leaves casting shadows. Once you fix the left one, which of the two (it or the middle) you pick is mostly a stylistic decision, I think, and thus up to you.

Ryumaru · **Reply #6 on:** February 01, 2007, 10:55:43 pm

heres an edit that might give you some ideas.

pkmays · **Reply #7 on:** February 01, 2007, 11:06:04 pm

If you're going for something surreal/trippy, I think the toilet paper roll look can work. Also did some crude copy on the new leaves, which are a huge improvement IMO.

Potatoes · **Reply #8 on:** February 05, 2007, 04:15:49 am

I'm no pixil expert but a couple things looked odd to me. I'm not sure if they were supposed to be like this or not, though.

philipptr · **Reply #9 on:** February 05, 2007, 05:59:19 pm

potatoes: The brown line was still from the lineart (since I only made some very rough colouring at that place it was still visible. The other thing came from not finishing the new shading of the trunk.

thanks for the edits. Although I dont aim for something realistic I dont really like the toilet-paper-roll-look

I made a new version of the trunk which I still not perfectly like. Also I continued drawing the leafes and added 2 tiles for the ground:

Do you think the new trunk is better than the previous versions?

Sherman Gill · **Reply #10 on:** February 06, 2007, 01:37:02 am

Definitely better.
Also, the style of leaf I like best is the one on the far left.

Currently the only thing I don't like is the cliff , looks too sudden an' unnatural.

Stwelin · **Reply #11 on:** February 06, 2007, 03:03:53 am

This might be a little excessive in a tileset aspect, but i thought it would be a neat way to give the tree more of a sense of presence so it actually looks 'there' instead of more statically incorperated into the background. I like this piece a lot, has an interesting atmosphere.

Xion · **Reply #12 on:** February 06, 2007, 03:19:12 am

I can hardly see the roots, Stewlin. Too dark. Good idea though.
Nice update, though, Phillip. Much better. Maybe some knots or an owlhole in the trunk? Then again, maybe not. Owlholes are way overdone.
Something I've been thinking through this whole piece is that it's a bit too dark, but that might just be personal preference.

Stwelin · **Reply #13 on:** February 06, 2007, 04:04:18 pm

Quote from: Xion Night on February 06, 2007, 03:19:12 am

I can hardly see the roots, Stewlin. Too dark. Good idea though.

..really? your monitor must have a really low contrast ratio. :X

huZba · **Reply #14 on:** February 06, 2007, 08:08:44 pm

Quote from: Stwelin on February 06, 2007, 04:04:18 pm

Quote from: Xion Night on February 06, 2007, 03:19:12 am
I can hardly see the roots, Stewlin. Too dark. Good idea though.

..really? your monitor must have a really low contrast ratio. :X

Or lights on in his room

The picture is so low key so you miss the darkest values if your eyes are adjusted to brighter environment.
For me the roots seem just fine if i look at the image against a dark backround. So assuming the game will be played fullscreen with no extra stuff around, that value is just perfect.

Xion · **Reply #15 on:** February 06, 2007, 11:28:04 pm

Maybe it was my monitor. I'm at school and I can see 'em fine.

philipptr · **Reply #16 on:** February 25, 2007, 08:24:10 pm

sorry for not replying for so long and now bumping this thread, but I was a bit busy these days..

(bg is colour-reduced and temporary)
so heres what I've got so far. I made a first version of a character. Is pretty flashback-like because that was the only thing that I could make that didn't look totally redicolous. Also flashback would be a good reference for the animations, which will be one of the most problematic steps in developing the game. Do you think this character fits or do you think its to undetailed? should I go for a more metal slug like look, with less outline to make it fit my bg?

Joshua · **Reply #17 on:** February 25, 2007, 08:32:07 pm

That tree is turning out really nice. I think the weakest parts of the pic would have to be the boring flashback pose of the character and the background. He looks like hes got his hands in his pockets waiting for a bus. Also, the background dithering is overwhelming. I would add more colors and ease up on the dithering or lose the dithering alltogether and keep the current color count. The ray of light to the right is out of place as well.

Aside from that, its looking awesome.

sharprm · **Reply #18 on:** February 25, 2007, 10:09:12 pm

I think the rays of light should be thicker and make the same angle (if there is only one sun light rays will be parrallel at earth). Its looking really good, i think the boring character/pose adds
to the weird environment (the tree and flower seems huge).

BadMrBox · **Reply #19 on:** February 25, 2007, 11:14:08 pm

Yeah, the rays should be thicker and the same angle. The lightness on the trunk should also be more to the right rather than left-middle as it is now.

philipptr · **Reply #20 on:** February 27, 2007, 03:25:35 pm

thanks joshua

quick edit on the lightrays. moved them on the other side to make the lightsource on the tree more realistic (badmrbox's critism). I will now try to make the characters pose more intresting which will be very hard to me since I already tried to make a more intresting character but ended up with a redicolous looking dwarf

Feron · **Reply #21 on:** February 27, 2007, 04:15:18 pm

something more like this:

just a quick transparency overlay in photoshop, but u get the idea. it could even be done with the coding i guess.

largemann · **Reply #22 on:** February 28, 2007, 12:17:43 am

Hm, I actually quite like the character's pose/style. I don't think he needs changing, I think he fits his environment perfectly.
It is, after all, just an idle pose...

I'd really like to see a running animation for him though

philipptr · **Reply #23 on:** February 28, 2007, 09:25:29 pm

I dont think im gonna use alpha if I dont really needed (no problem coding wise, im using 8bit alpha maps anyways), so I will try to integrate such an effect like you showed it in the background. hopefully Ill get an idea of how to do a good bg with such a limited ramp

btw: this is my try at a spaceship with which the character landed on the strange planet on which he is waiting for the bus now

sharprm · **Reply #24 on:** February 28, 2007, 10:39:50 pm

That spaceship looks great. Only crit is on the bottom to far right the green glow doesn't make sense as there is no grash to cause the
reflection there. Maybe more dirt to suggest a violent crash?

philipptr · **Reply #25 on:** March 07, 2007, 07:07:11 pm

for largemann

I suck at animation and this was my very first try at a wallkcycle so it was surprising that it didn't look totally ridiculous, although I still know that this walkcycle is not very good. I've got to add arm moving and fix a few minor problems with a few frames. If someone could tell me why to up/down movement is looking so unnatural I would be very thankfull

Yes I've got to fix the glow (made it when I didnt add so much earth/dirt lying around). Do you think the dirt at the front of the ship looks okay?

...I slowly get the feeling I shouldn't keep this thread alive over such a time, oh well..

AdamAtomic · **Reply #26 on:** March 07, 2007, 07:36:30 pm

not bad, better than my first walk cycle

i think his knees are too low though, and i'd widen the stride up some - with your level/screen size it will take a million years to go anywhere at that pace !

eck · **Reply #27 on:** March 07, 2007, 09:19:40 pm

if you want my opinion, the character is to small for the screen. it will take him like three minutes to get from the tree to the end of the screen lol. i think you could pretty much go three ways with this.

1- make it a run cycle. make him run a bit quicker.

2- make him take much bitter strides, almost a jog, but not quite.

3- simply speed it up.

oh and BTW, his arms need to be moving/swinging.

theres my critique

sharprm · **Reply #28 on:** March 07, 2007, 11:36:40 pm

I like the number of frames youre using becuase it seems very smooth animation. I really liked "flashback" and "out of this world", hope
you make the movement system and animations similar. I was thinking the way that the grass runs it might be better to have the light
streaming down from the left so its parallel with the grass. Could you just flip the tree horizotally to make consistent with light source.

philipptr · **Reply #29 on:** May 05, 2007, 04:16:19 pm

So time has come to resurrect this long forgotten thread

I haven't continued working on the walkcycle since working with imageready is such a pain.
Instead I tried to make a new background. My first try was:

Which imho wasnt usable at all as a platformer bg and also wasnt fitting the mood I had in mind for this scene.
So I tried again with a different concept:

(the dark parts might not be easily visible under certain light conditions)
I've removed the tree since it doesn't fit the light in the second background (the scene with the tree will get it's own bg).
Any c&c on the new background? Are the leaf-sillouettes to repetitative? If so what could I change?

(original inspiration came from http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=3019.0

Snippa · **Reply #30 on:** May 05, 2007, 04:45:39 pm

I'm absolutely loving this... glad you resurrected the thread.
Not much I can think of to crit the background, but just wanted to say how awesome it looks overall.

sami/pso · **Reply #31 on:** May 05, 2007, 06:07:03 pm

I like the first background better. But yes, i think for a platformer the second would be better so you don't have the feeling the platform is floating in the sky.

Ryumaru · **Reply #32 on:** May 06, 2007, 01:53:17 am

i cant tell what the latest bg is supposed to be at all.

philipptr · **Reply #33 on:** May 06, 2007, 07:16:46 am

Quote from: Ryumaru on May 06, 2007, 01:53:17 am

i cant tell what the latest bg is supposed to be at all.

hm :/ that's bad. It's supposed to be the silhouettes of plants/ a tree, with a moon shining betwen them at the top.
So I guess that's quite a big problem if people can't even tell what it's supposed to be.. Should I again do a new bg from scratch? I actually liked this try best yet :/

Is it just the areas that are only sketched yet that aren't readable? Because that's not the way it's supposed to be. The left side is almost finished, while the right one is very sketchy..

Xion · **Reply #34 on:** May 06, 2007, 07:32:59 am

Hmm....I can tell what it is. I really like the look of the moon peeking through from between those cliffs, but the other large valleyish area to the right looks pretty odd...but...I don't know why. I think you should just work on that area a bit more.

Ryumaru · **Reply #35 on:** May 06, 2007, 03:15:55 pm

it just doesnt seem to make sense to me, i mean i can tell that theres leaves and such, and i guess a form of a tree.
i like the second to latest attempt much better, what dont you like about it?

philipptr · **Reply #36 on:** May 12, 2007, 05:46:23 pm

Quote from: Xion on May 06, 2007, 07:32:59 am

Hmm....I can tell what it is. I really like the look of the moon peeking through from between those cliffs, but the other large valleyish area to the right looks pretty odd...but...I don't know why. I think you should just work on that area a bit more.

yes I see what you mean. I tried to make it look a bit more natural in the edit. Im not yet there but I think It looks better than in the last version

Quote from: Ryumaru on May 06, 2007, 03:15:55 pm

it just doesnt seem to make sense to me, i mean i can tell that theres leaves and such, and i guess a form of a tree.
i like the second to latest attempt much better, what dont you like about it?

I think the other atempt was taking to much focus in contrast to the foreground, and wasnt fitting the dark night like theme i had in mind.

heres the current edit (didnt have much time, so only smaller edits):

is it better?

yosh64 · **Reply #37 on:** May 13, 2007, 12:59:09 am

hey

Firstly, great work ^_^.

I really like both backgrounds, and they make complete sense to me

.

I really like the first one with the tree tops appearing through the mist, but I seem to think the second one better suits the foreground.

Ohh, I actually prefer the previous version of the second background

. The tree trunks look to go at odd angles or something, which makes less sense to me. I do prefer them strait as in the previous version. I'm not sure about the added lightest shade in the latest version also, I think it loses some mood, and I don't think it should be so light down there. I mean, I look at the first background of the tops of the trees, and the lighter shade in it looks fine up there, but using that same lighter shade lower down in the environment looks odd to me. I hope this makes sense

. Ohh, I think the moon looks a little odd also, I think it should be bigger, particularly when it's down low. Have you seen the moon when it is low? well over here in Australia it looks quite large, compared to when it is far higher in the sky. Hmm, I actually think you should think about dumping the moon, and maybe adding it to the first background? but I'm not sure about this. But yea, I really like the mood it has and everything, I think the sillouettes work really well.

But yea, the second background is clearly the base of the trees, sorrounded by the grassy environment and such. Hmm, look at the first background, and then look at the second background, and it seems very clear to me

.

Anyhows, I hope this helps.

edit
I just had another look at it, and looking at the first background, and seeing how the trees are curvy and such, I see the latest lower background makes sense

. But I think maybe the trunks/bases could be a litle thicker. Maybe you could say the scale of the tree trunks/bases don't look large enough.

I was also thinking that the lighter shade of the latest lower background looks to go well with the moon. I still think the moon looks to small, but I do wonder what it would be like without the moon, and without the lighter shade.

Overall, I think I would most prefer the previous lower background without the moon. But I do think in the latest version, the composition between the moon and the background is better. Hmm, maybe the moon would go better with the previous version if you took it down a shade, as well as made it larger, but again I'm not sure about this.

another edit
Actually I change my mind... I don't think the composition is better in the latest. Maybe this would be so if it was a sun, as it just looks odd to me that the moon lights the background so much.

I was just thinking... the background looks brighter than the foreground in the latest version, which seems very odd to me :\.

cyas

philipptr · **Reply #38 on:** May 13, 2007, 09:25:44 am

thanks yosh for the long comment. as you seem to change your opinion from time to time I will answer to the last critique said in your comment

Quote from: yosh64 on May 13, 2007, 12:59:09 am

[...]

Overall, I think I would most prefer the previous lower background without the moon. But I do think in the latest version, the composition between the moon and the background is better. Hmm, maybe the moon would go better with the previous version if you took it down a shade, as well as made it larger, but again I'm not sure about this.

another edit
Actually I change my mind... I don't think the composition is better in the latest. Maybe this would be so if it was a sun, as it just looks odd to me that the moon lights the background so much.

I was just thinking... the background looks brighter than the foreground in the latest version, which seems very odd to me :\.

cyas

So first of all I've discovered there are quite some problems when you want to make the an intresting background for a platformer. One on side it's supposed to be realisitic but on the other side it has to be beautiful and readable. You're completly right that the foreground is too bright, although I already darkened it one shade in the latest edit. If I make the stones and grass even darker, they will get less readable, and it will be much harder to shade them properly.
About using a shade more in the latest edit which makes the whole background brighter: I added one shade to make it more readable on a monitor in bad light situations. When I saw the image on a crt at a normal day I sometimes could hardly tell the difference between the darkest shade and black, so yeah, another thing I'm sacrificing for readability.
I will try making the moon bigger.
Were you talking about the one trunk in the middle and the tree in the right side of the background, when you said they should be bigger?

Actually slowly I'm beginning to think that this new background isn't as good as I thought at all. But oh well I still have so much to do for this game. I guess I never gonna finish it $:-\$

philipptr · **Reply #39 on:** July 01, 2007, 10:31:18 pm

Finally I continue on this project. I decided that I need a less generic sprite for the hero. So I went for a generic cowboy instead of a completly generic guy. Well actually I edited the old sprite since I'm not very good at making sprites from scratch and was quite happy with the old one, but it seems extremly boring and doesnt seem much like a cowboy. Also there are some slight readability issues.

So does someone know how to solve these issues without draging the style too much from the other grafics?

Jad · **Reply #40 on:** July 02, 2007, 12:07:29 am

PHALLIC SWORD POSE!

Please change :\ I'm getting penile impressions even though I don't want to.

I do like the cowboy design, though, interesting and all :]

Zero · **Reply #41 on:** July 02, 2007, 12:26:35 am

The cowboy is wayyy too dark for that background...

bengo · **Reply #42 on:** July 02, 2007, 01:54:46 am

Quote from: philipptr on July 01, 2007, 10:31:18 pm

So does someone know how to solve these issues without draging the style too much from the other grafics?

You could try giving it a white outline... and change his stance a bit, so it actually looks like he's ready to fight with a sword.(And it doesn't give anymore uh, penile impressions)

Stwelin · **Reply #43 on:** July 02, 2007, 02:07:53 am

A white outline would hinder this piece more than it would help, I'm afraid.

philipptr · **Reply #44 on:** July 09, 2007, 12:50:58 pm

So I finally removed the sword, and changed the pose to a more dynamic shooting/showdown like pose, but I'm afraid it looks much worse now.
(right one is brighter edit for readability, which doesn't work that well also)

something seems to be very wrong about his pose especially his right (our left) arm. I just cant find out how to fix it :/

(edit: fixed the image url)

EyeCraft · **Reply #45 on:** July 09, 2007, 05:35:17 pm

Howdy. I love what you've got going, very atmospheric. In regards to the (our) left arm, maybe his shoulder needs to be more defined, and the arm needs to be shifted to the left 1 pixel. Forearm might need to be lengthened 1 pixel, also.

smiker · **Reply #46 on:** July 10, 2007, 02:01:30 am

I edited them:
first stance i putted it two pistols, and on the second i modified right arm, it remids now to ocelot a bit ^^

also your game is beginning to look like the one who is inspiring me to make my own sidescroller...blackthorne. are you even referenced a bit by that game? i'd like to know ^^...

philipptr · **Reply #47 on:** July 10, 2007, 01:11:13 pm

@smiker: I haven't heard of blackthorne before. Just looked at some screens over at moby games and I don't think that it's too similar. Played flashback while starting this, which has very similar backgrounds

about the edit: the first one seems very unreadable, the second does some things better than my so I tried to make the left arm facing down and still give it a bit more tension than your edit had.

Froli · **Reply #48 on:** July 10, 2007, 01:31:58 pm

Hey Philipptr, with the straight arms the cowboy looks ackward so I made a fast edit and bended his arms.

Hope this helps

philipptr · **Reply #49 on:** July 10, 2007, 02:20:45 pm

oh well I guess the tension I tried to add didn't help at all, thanks very much froli seems like the completly right direction.

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AuthorTopic: [WIP] Grafics for a platformer-rpg (Read 21500 times)

yosh64