AuthorTopic: (WIP) tactics character(s)  (Read 32454 times)

Offline dragonrc

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(WIP) tactics character(s)

on: January 06, 2007, 11:37:57 am
Hello,

You might remember this topic from pixeljoint, I got a lot of help there but i still could use some more so also I made a topic on this forum.
 
I'm currently working on a srpg and my part of the game is spriting the characters (I didn't make the designs).
The project I was working on has stopped, the project leader isn't responding to my e-mails anymore. But I don't feel like stopping with working on these sprites, I'm learning a lot from these and I might start my own project. And if I dont, this is a nice piece for in my portfolio ;).
I got a lot of help from the pixeljoint forums and I also got help from a friend. This is the progress my sprite has made:
But to see better progress you should scroll down.





Whole new design

The current verions:

(Ill make it transparant later)
As you can see there are some points that need improvement:

-The design of the blue suit.

-If you think one of the sprites needs improvement on something else, please let me know.

Help is very apreciated. ;)

Thanks in advance!

-----

[Edit] I edited all your posts and removed the URL tags linking to imageshack.us.
Here in pixelation, we use a click based zoom scrip, and having the images linked will just result on pages popping up to those trying to zoom for giving some C&C or looking close at your sprites.
Please, next time don't forget to remove them (or simply select the image's url alone, and use the img tags). - Panda


Thanks Panda :)
« Last Edit: March 06, 2007, 05:11:19 pm by dragonrc »

Offline entivore

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #1 on: January 06, 2007, 10:22:23 pm


I'm about to work on a walk of approximately that angle myself pretty soon.  Been holding off because it's intimidating.

After my edit it still needs back-shoulder movement and a double check of the foot positions. 
« Last Edit: January 06, 2007, 10:32:40 pm by entivore »
Only in the darkness can one most brightly shine

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Offline dragonrc

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #2 on: January 07, 2007, 12:46:57 pm


(the 2 images on top are the new sprites, the image to the bottomleft is etivores sprite and the image to the bottom right is my old sprite)

Thanks for your help entivore :) your 'bounce' in the animation looks much better.
I edited 1 frame of your animation and now the animation looks pretty good IMO, I made a change at the left leg(so it doent look like it just slides).
Ill try to work on the back shoulders now.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2007, 09:09:38 am by Panda »

Offline Andy Tran

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #3 on: January 07, 2007, 01:38:52 pm
 They look pretty nice. One looks like a street fighter.

Offline dragonrc

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #4 on: January 07, 2007, 02:42:51 pm
Update:
(newer version)
(older version)
Tried to make the shoulders move more realistic, I hope it worked.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2007, 09:10:00 am by Panda »

Offline dragonrc

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #5 on: January 07, 2007, 03:46:26 pm


2 newer versions,the first only has better AA. The 2nd has a moving upper body.
I don't really like the 2nd version but maby there should be something changed with it
« Last Edit: January 08, 2007, 09:10:23 am by Panda »

Offline Xion

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #6 on: January 07, 2007, 08:56:26 pm
Please get rid of the {url} tags around the images. We can zoom in on images by clicking them and it kinda throws me off when I go to zoom and something pops up.

The weird thing about the 2nd version is that the chest is moving horizontally, but the shoulders aren't, which is pretty impossible as far as I know. Same with the hips. Hips should move accordingly with the legs. In both images.
The legs themselves need work as well. The closest leg doesn't seem to step like the far leg does. It just looks like he goes to step forward then changes his mind. I think this is because he never seems to set his foot down. That leg needs to come further down than the far one because of its nearness. It also seems to start going backwards while the foot is still tilted up...Well, I guess that happens, but not to the extent you have it in your image.

Nice job so far, though. Hope I help.
Oh, and hi.

Offline dragonrc

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #7 on: January 09, 2007, 02:14:43 pm
Please get rid of the {url} tags around the images. We can zoom in on images by clicking them and it kinda throws me off when I go to zoom and something pops up.

Ah, I don't seem to have problems with this myselve but I'll change it so you don't have problems with it either. I'm new on these forums though and I don't know how to do this, I tried the mona lisa button but it shows† † img]† /img]

The weird thing about the 2nd version is that the chest is moving horizontally, but the shoulders aren't, which is pretty impossible as far as I know. Same with the hips. Hips should move accordingly with the legs. In both images.

Well, i'm thinking of ditching(?) the 2nd image anyway, but ill try to do something about the hips in the first image.

The legs themselves need work as well. The closest leg doesn't seem to step like the far leg does.

That looks strange indeed, ill try to fix that.

It just looks like he goes to step forward then changes his mind. I think this is because he never seems to set his foot down.That leg needs to come further down than the far one because of its nearness. It also seems to start going backwards while the foot is still tilted up...Well, I guess that happens, but not to the extent you have it in your image.

I don't really understand this but ill try fixing the front leg first

Nice job so far, though. Hope I help.
Oh, and hi.
Thanks, and the things you pointed out will most certainly help.
And hi to you to† ;)



And I made this yesterday, it looks terrible :P , i never was good at backview sprites, but that why I'm here ;)


EDIT:

older version

newer version
« Last Edit: January 09, 2007, 02:38:46 pm by dragonrc »

Offline Panda

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #8 on: January 09, 2007, 02:33:36 pm
Quote
Ah, I don't seem to have problems with this myselve but I'll change it so you don't have problems with it either. I'm new on these forums though and I don't know how to do this, I tried the mona lisa button but it shows    img]  /img]


Instead of
Code: [Select]
[img]http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/1733/boeta3.png[/img]use
Code: [Select]
[img]http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/1733/boeta3.png[/img]
Simply erase the URL tags when posting, or copy the image's URL alone, and then wrap it with the img tags using the button
(you will have to either highlight the image's address you want to use it on and click on it, or click on the icon and then paste it between the tags).

Offline dragonrc

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #9 on: January 09, 2007, 02:39:34 pm
Thanks ;D


I did it with this image:

Hope you don't get problems with this one ;)

Offline sharprm

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #10 on: January 09, 2007, 03:52:03 pm
This edit looks kinda crap but basically shows you that you could make you animation by drawing every frame and not just
moving hands and feet around.



Also use less colors and make it simpler. Get rid of the gold stuff until your animation is finished.

Your piece the arms don't rotate right, they look like they rotate down.
Modern artists are told that they must create something totally original-or risk being called "derivative".They've been indoctrinated with the concept that bad=good.The effect is always the same: Meaningless primitivism
http://www.artrenewal.org/articles/Philosophy/phi

Offline dragonrc

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #11 on: January 09, 2007, 04:55:02 pm
This edit looks kinda crap but basically shows you that you could make you animation by drawing every frame and not just
moving hands and feet around.



Also use less colors and make it simpler.

Thanks for the reply :)
Believe it or not, I drew every frame on its own (only the feet, i copied the rest), maby you will notice some equalties between the sprites, but that is because i drew the next frame with the previous frame next to it (hard to explain). I did just move the arms, but of course i edited them so it looked better.

I was planning on using less colours when the sprite was finished ;)
But with all the editing it always stays a big pixel mess so ill do it afterwards.

Get rid of the gold stuff until your animation is finished.

Well, they aren't really annoying or something and the animation if pretty much finished. (and when I edit something, like the next sprite you'll see below, I usually remove the gold pieces and place em back afterwards).
 
Your piece the arms don't rotate right, they look like they rotate down.

Is this better?:

 old† †† †new
If not, I think I don't really understand what you mean..
« Last Edit: January 09, 2007, 04:56:49 pm by dragonrc »

Offline sharprm

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #12 on: January 09, 2007, 05:32:57 pm
Maybe ignore the shoulders comment, i seem to have confused myself about the angle perspective thingy. But the feet really don't
lift off the ground in my opinion, making it look like he walks backwards. I haven't played tactic games so maybe this is how they do
the walk animation but the arms and legs move like pendulums, just back and forth. Anyway, goodluck.
Modern artists are told that they must create something totally original-or risk being called "derivative".They've been indoctrinated with the concept that bad=good.The effect is always the same: Meaningless primitivism
http://www.artrenewal.org/articles/Philosophy/phi

Offline dragonrc

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #13 on: January 09, 2007, 06:39:52 pm
Maybe ignore the shoulders comment, i seem to have confused myself about the angle perspective thingy. But the feet really don't
lift off the ground in my opinion, making it look like he walks backwards. I haven't played tactic games so maybe this is how they do
the walk animation but the arms and legs move like pendulums, just back and forth.
At first I didn't really know what you meant with walking backward,
 but if you look long enough it really does look like he walks backwards :P
Anyway, the man I make these sprites for think the animation looks ok now so Ill be concentration on the backward sprite now:


Anyway, goodluck.
Thanks ;)

Offline dragonrc

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #14 on: January 09, 2007, 07:22:15 pm

Final version, i made some small edits, like the front arm.

I now want to focus on the back sprite

Offline dragonrc

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #15 on: January 10, 2007, 02:46:01 pm

Small improvements on the animation, look at the back hand of the previous sprite, it's kind of light.
(The whole sprite suddenly looks brighter on this bg...)


And an improved back version.

Edit:


Edit2:

I would really appreciate CC :)
« Last Edit: January 11, 2007, 10:58:47 am by dragonrc »

Offline dragonrc

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #16 on: January 15, 2007, 12:45:08 pm
It's been a while but I managed to do some updates


There sttill are some things bugging me:

Should I change them, or should I leave them as they are?


EDIT:
tnink this looks a lil better


EDIT2:
« Last Edit: January 17, 2007, 12:48:53 pm by dragonrc »

Offline dragonrc

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #17 on: January 20, 2007, 01:05:21 pm
Update:

The back sprite, improved.(and maby even finished?)

minor edit to the animation.



Next objective: animate the back sprite

Offline dragonrc

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #18 on: January 20, 2007, 08:54:36 pm

A rough version of the walking sprite. It moves kind of...staticly or something

Offline entivore

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #19 on: January 20, 2007, 09:42:58 pm
Started on the back facing walk eh?

The height changes when one leg is forward should be the same as the height changes when the other leg is forward.  In other words, there should either be 2 "up" frames or "4", not 3.

In the up facing walk, the right foot doesn't move as much as the left one, and seems to be moving a different angle as well.† Try using the line tool to make some parallel guidelines to help you with the feet positions.

Oh yeah, one more thing... the arms are going too far behind his back in the up facing walk.  Don't just cut-paste the arm-movement from the down facing sprites.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2007, 09:58:13 pm by entivore »
Only in the darkness can one most brightly shine

暗闇だけで最も明るい状態で光り輝くことができる

Offline dragonrc

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #20 on: January 20, 2007, 11:07:34 pm
Started on the back facing walk eh?

The height changes when one leg is forward should be the same as the height changes when the other leg is forward.† In other words, there should either be 2 "up" frames or "4", not 3.
Yeah I noticed, I fixed that.
In the up facing walk, the right foot doesn't move as much as the left one, and seems to be moving a different angle as well.† Try using the line tool to make some parallel guidelines to help you with the feet positions.
I fixed the right foot, I also think they are moving in the same angle now
Oh yeah, one more thing... the arms are going too far behind his back in the up facing walk.†
Fixed :)
Don't just cut-paste the arm-movement from the down facing sprites.
I didn't ;)

Here it is:
old:† †

new:
« Last Edit: January 20, 2007, 11:14:18 pm by dragonrc »

Offline Cow

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #21 on: January 21, 2007, 01:01:12 am
Remember that arm movement/leg movement are opposite. It's fine with your front-facing one, but not the latest one.

Offline dragonrc

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #22 on: January 21, 2007, 10:21:30 am
UPDATE:


I changed the movement of the arms and legs.

EDIT:

Fixed the 'leg lifting'

And I did a little edit on the right arm, I thought it didn't move like it should so I changed it.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2007, 10:30:12 am by dragonrc »

Offline entivore

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #23 on: January 21, 2007, 08:58:03 pm
I did a little edit



3 Minor changes:
Made the right arm go out into his front more, and behind his back less
Corrected the foot positions (remember if you shift a frame it moves everything... so alter the leg length to compensate and keep the feet in the right spots)
Made the feet slightly higher and slightly more angular when coming forward compared to when going backward
« Last Edit: January 21, 2007, 09:39:06 pm by entivore »
Only in the darkness can one most brightly shine

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Offline dragonrc

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #24 on: January 22, 2007, 05:19:56 pm
Thanx entivore, it really helped ;D. Some edits may be extreme but they most certainly helped.
Your sprite made me realise the arms was moving weird, especially the left, and the legs needed some changes. Here is the update:

Offline pixelsforhire

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #25 on: January 23, 2007, 06:24:23 am
Is it just me, or is that knight wearing hip huggers on the walk away animation?

Offline dragonrc

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #26 on: January 23, 2007, 04:07:25 pm
Is it just me, or is that knight wearing hip huggers on the walk away animation?
'hip huggers'?

Offline ptepid

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #27 on: January 23, 2007, 04:22:37 pm
Is it just me, or is that knight wearing hip huggers on the walk away animation?
'hip huggers'?
I think what pixelsfohire means that because the belt is skin-coloured, it looks like he's wearing low cut pants (i.e. they barely reach the hips, let alone the waist). That's how my mind interpreted it when I first saw it.

Offline dragonrc

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #28 on: January 23, 2007, 05:09:57 pm
Hmmm, I dunno it looks fine with me...But if more people think it looks wrong I'll change it ;)
And here is a little something in progress:



looking evil huh :P

Offline dragonrc

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #29 on: January 26, 2007, 05:20:39 pm

Edit made with help at pixel joint. But should it move like this? Since it's not his a$$ but a piece of armour...

Offline AdamAtomic

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #30 on: January 27, 2007, 12:19:55 am
outside of animation concerns and style concerns, your guy's torso is too long, and his arms and legs are too short; he looks more than a little like a dwarf in ill-fitting lavender spandex.  this has nothing to do with a "tactics" style or an "SD" style - regardless of the overall body's proportions, your guy's limbs are out of wack.  I would take sharpm's advice and not bother pillowshading your design until you have a good base that has more acceptable proportions and better lighting.  Notice that in sharpm's edit, even though it has basically NO details, you can read the form of the figure instantly?  This is an important quality that you do not want to leave out of your final product.

Offline Kren

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #31 on: January 27, 2007, 02:14:27 am
the mayor error from this piece is all the colours it is using, and the colours aren't at their best..this is my try..


not the best.. but I tried..
well you were using 26 colours and I am using 12.
not a good idea to use green in blue ..I was just testing..

Offline InvaderLupus

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #32 on: January 27, 2007, 04:12:23 am
I think that your sprite would look a lot better if you upped the contrast. It's metal: it should be shiny. Make the outlines darker, and the highlights lighter. It will make the sprite more distinct and less of a hard to see blob.

Here's a quick edit to try and show what I mean. I'm not very good, but hopefully it will get the point across:



just updated with a decreased color count. Down to 11 colors now.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2007, 05:22:12 am by InvaderLupus »

Offline dragonrc

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #33 on: January 27, 2007, 09:55:27 am
Wow, a lot of helpfull comments ;D.

Let's start with the edits:

@AdamAtomic
Quote
outside of animation concerns and style concerns, your guy's torso is too long, and his arms and legs are too short; he looks more than a little like a dwarf in ill-fitting lavender spandex.
First, I think you see things a little wrong, the armour part (also known as 'butt like thingy') is actually part of the legs, and if you look at it that way it looks like the legs and arms aren't to short (to me). Maby the picture below will clear things up.
† †† † ††
(older) version (newer) version

and here is the (new) version without the lines

I don't know if this is better, It looks like the legs are to long now.

Quote
this has nothing to do with a "tactics" style or an "SD" style - regardless of the overall body's proportions, your guy's limbs are out of wack.
I don't know if there really is a "tactics style", the only tactic thing about my sprites is the isometric part, the style has nothing to do with tactics style.

Quote
I would take sharpm's advice and not bother pillowshading your design until you have a good base that has more acceptable proportions and better lighting.† Notice that in sharpm's edit, even though it has basically NO details, you can read the form of the figure instantly?† This is an important quality that you do not want to leave out of your final product.
I dunno if its pillowshaded, maby the leg...
But sharpm's edit has helped a lot ;)

@Kren


Quote
the mayor error from this piece is all the colours it is using, and the colours aren't at their best..this is my try..

not the best.. but I tried..
well you were using 26 colours and I am using 12.
not a good idea to use green in blue ..I was just testing..

@InvaderLupus
Quote
I think that your sprite would look a lot better if you upped the contrast. It's metal: it should be shiny. Make the outlines darker, and the highlights lighter. It will make the sprite more distinct and less of a hard to see blob.

Here's a quick edit to try and show what I mean. I'm not very good, but hopefully it will get the point across:
just updated with a decreased color count. Down to 11 colors now.
These comments were VERY helpfull ;D
I realised that you can use colours for more things (like the highlights on the armour for the eyes)
I should have lowerd the colour amount much earlier. Here is the new version:


13 colours

I could have lowerd it to 10 colours because of the hair, I didn't do this because the hair will most likely not be like this (the man I'm working for wants to make more characters with this armour, one with green hair, one with brown, one with blue ect.† And maby we are going to place helmets on them)


Thanks for your comments ;D

Offline sharprm

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #34 on: January 28, 2007, 02:00:10 pm
I think you have a lot of problems with this sprite. 1. Perspective angle thing. Can you post the shape of the tiles that will be used in
game (eg. 45 degree lines or whatever) 2. Shading. It is pillow shaded, pick a light source and do correct shadows. Don't just reply
to everyone's criticisms with "i actually think its right but thankyou", fix it. 3. Animation is lousy. 4. Armour costume is dodgy.
You repeatably make small edits and post them, but overall the piece won't improve. Imo you should start again. Start with a naked
sprite for platform perspective, get a four frame animation done, get it criticised, then increase frames to 10 (or whatever you're using
now). Then do a sprite with your funny perspective. Get it criticised, then do 4 frame animation, etc. This is a hard sprite to do imo because
of the perspective (my attempt sucks again). But if you show us the tiles you're using and listen to advice it could turn out okay.

« Last Edit: January 29, 2007, 01:04:49 am by sharprm »
Modern artists are told that they must create something totally original-or risk being called "derivative".They've been indoctrinated with the concept that bad=good.The effect is always the same: Meaningless primitivism
http://www.artrenewal.org/articles/Philosophy/phi

Offline AdamAtomic

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #35 on: January 28, 2007, 06:12:56 pm
your proportions are so wrong that even when Kren was only trying to edit the colors he couldn't help but change the arm and torso lengths to be more appropriate.  Don't throw away good crits; this is a bad sprite that needs a lot of help and you're crapping on/ignoring everyone's input - ESPECIALLY when you claim to be accepting it!

Offline dragonrc

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #36 on: January 30, 2007, 03:08:06 pm
I think I understand what you all mean now , Iíll try to explain a few things by replying to your posts.

I think you have a lot of problems with this sprite. 1. Perspective angle thing. Can you post the shape of the tiles that will be used in
game (eg. 45 degree lines or whatever)

This is a Very useful post, this helped a lot with the edit below.

2. Shading. It is pillow shaded, pick a light source and do correct shadows. Don't just reply
to everyone's criticisms with "i actually think its right but thankyou", fix it.

I think the problem here is that I may not understand the term pillow shading.
I thought pillow shading meant this:† (2nd image)

But if you look at my sprite it isnít shaded like thatÖ.or am I wrong again? :S

3. Animation is lousy.

I know itís not a masterpiece but I think itís a huge improvement with my older animations.

My friend said: it is a game sprite, not a static pixel art piece that has to be perfect with every pixel, keep it simple but make sure it looks ok. People often forget this and spend hours on a sprite making it look perfect while with lesser work the sprite could have looked good to in the game itself too while it may have looked lousy as a sprite on its own.

4. Armour costume is dodgy.

Dodgy?


You repeatably make small edits and post them, but overall the piece won't improve. Imo you should start again. Start with a naked
sprite for platform perspective, get a four frame animation done, get it criticised, then increase frames to 10 (or whatever you're using
now). Then do a sprite with your funny perspective. Get it criticised, then do 4 frame animation, etc. This is a hard sprite to do imo because
of the perspective (my attempt sucks again). But if you show us the tiles you're using and listen to advice it could turn out okay.


First of all, Iím sorry I may not have used all of the comments that were posted but the reason is I donít understand what† they meantÖ I know itís a lousy excuse but Itís true.
And if I posted ĎI think it looks good this wayí then the project leader thinkís itís ok. But Iíll try to give more attention to the comments next time;)

We donít have tiles yet but we do know the tilesize:

It will be either one of them.

I made a whole new sprite based on most of the previous comments:

I remade it without looking back to my old sprite so they wouldnít be alike, also I want to thank my friend for his advice, especially with the legs and the eyes (1 pixel up).

I shaded the head and the arms, I was planning to shade the rest to but I wanted to let you all give a chance to look at it and post comments so I can edit it early. I'm not sure about the head, somethings bugging me about it

I must say I like the new sprite and that Iím learning a lot by working on this

your proportions are so wrong that even when Kren was only trying to edit the colors he couldn't help but change the arm and torso lengths to be more appropriate.† Don't throw away good crits; this is a bad sprite that needs a lot of help and you're crapping on/ignoring everyone's input - ESPECIALLY when you claim to be accepting it!

Proportions
Again a word that I donít really understand:
Does this mean that the size of the limbs is wrong compared to the rest of the sprite?
Does this mean that the size of the limbs is wrong compared with a real human being?
In that case I have to say that it doesnít really matter, look at some other rpg sprites, if the limbs were that way in real live we would look really weird but it looks good for the sprites.
Or does it mean anything else?

Anyway, thank you all very much for even taking time posting a comment, it may not always look this way but I really appreciate it :D
« Last Edit: January 30, 2007, 04:35:27 pm by dragonrc »

Offline Rox

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #37 on: January 30, 2007, 06:06:21 pm
Proportion basically means "the size of something compared to something else". Or something. It may mean that your character's arms are too long compared to the legs and torso. Or that the legs are too short compared to the size of the rest of the body. What stands out the most to me, proportion-wise, is that his legs seem to be much too short. Even super-deformed characters follow pretty strict proportions. I believe proportion is what makes humans look human, after all.

Your new sprite looks much better, though!

Offline sharprm

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #38 on: January 30, 2007, 11:49:16 pm
The new sprite looks much better. My previous post was a bit rushed so I will expand on the comments. When you shade it,
make sure you take into account where the light source is. So make areas dark where there should be shadows. For the blue
sprite, you didn't have a dark enough color for shadows as well. I agreed it was pillow shaded because some areas should have been
in shadow (like his right leg) but they weren't.

When someone walks, they bend their legs and arms. Your animation doesn't have that bending. Thats why I htought it looked lousy. If you are deliberately doing that to make the character more cute, then that is okay.

I guess there was no justification for the "costume is dodgy" comment.   
Modern artists are told that they must create something totally original-or risk being called "derivative".They've been indoctrinated with the concept that bad=good.The effect is always the same: Meaningless primitivism
http://www.artrenewal.org/articles/Philosophy/phi

Offline ndchristie

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #39 on: February 02, 2007, 11:31:42 am



two good iso walk/runs.  see how the feet hit the ground, how they move aross the ground.  yours are doing the novice-bop atm.
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Offline GOODNIGHTdestroyer

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #40 on: February 02, 2007, 10:02:09 pm
Glad to see Adarias back.
And I am finally seeing that you were the one worth eating.

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #41 on: February 02, 2007, 11:04:37 pm
Glad to see Adarias back.
Yes, welcome back buddy!

Offline dragonrc

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #42 on: February 04, 2007, 02:56:49 pm
Here is the new walking animation, very WIP:

I think I'll add 2 extra frames to make it more smooth. I also still need to change the feet a little, they are changing in each frame to much.
The reason why I put it here so early because of the knees, It is so hard to make them bend without making it look bad :sry: .
Any advice on how to make it look better?
« Last Edit: February 06, 2007, 01:28:57 pm by dragonrc »

Offline Malor

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #43 on: February 04, 2007, 08:44:13 pm
Hmmm, I dunno it looks fine with me...But if more people think it looks wrong I'll change it ;)
And here is a little something in progress:



looking evil huh :P



this needs ALOT more contrast, right now it resembles a Chocolate bar, not an evil warrior :-[
Quote from: Adarias
I'm not going to pretend this is a small task either; certainly none of us here can claim to have accomplished it.  it's the realm of masters.  still, it's what we all have to try for.

Offline Xion

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #44 on: February 04, 2007, 08:54:46 pm
Umm, he's moved on to a much better piece. Maybe you should scroll down a bit.
Anyway, Dragon, The new one looks freaking awesome. Honestly, all I can say is that you should up the contrast on the pans and maybe rotate his head a bit. But really, much, much, muchly improved.

*pants*
« Last Edit: February 04, 2007, 09:53:28 pm by Xion Night »

Offline Malor

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #45 on: February 04, 2007, 09:03:44 pm
Umm, he's moved on to a much better piece. Maybe you should scroll down a bit.
Anyway, Dragon, The new one looks freaking awesome. Honestly, all I can say is that you should up the contrast on the pans and maybe rotate his head a bit. But really, much, much, muchly improved.

Oh I know, I was jsutg commenting on that one....the new one is amazing..
Quote from: Adarias
I'm not going to pretend this is a small task either; certainly none of us here can claim to have accomplished it.  it's the realm of masters.  still, it's what we all have to try for.

Offline ndchristie

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #46 on: February 06, 2007, 02:14:45 pm
hello all

im suprised that nobody has dropped the Link yet on this one.

be sure that your lines stay aligned properly aswell, you have a tendency to straighten all of them horizontally, probably a result of doing a lot of overhead and sideview work when you were first getting into pixelart.  Its a trap that a lot of people fall into.  if you need to, set yourself up an isomentric grid while working and then remove it from the final sets.
A mistake is a mistake.
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Offline dragonrc

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #47 on: February 07, 2007, 02:05:09 pm
I've been very busy these days
And here is the new edit:

But I think it looks better now because the legs aren't moving that horizontally anymore, thanks for pointing that out for me adrias ;D.
When I get the time I'll move in 2 extra frames. ;)

Offline entivore

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #48 on: February 07, 2007, 11:16:41 pm
Personally I think it looks worse, like the legs are randomly kicking out.†



*edit* here's a reference, made via poser
« Last Edit: February 08, 2007, 12:35:14 am by entivore »
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Offline ndchristie

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #49 on: February 08, 2007, 05:43:53 pm
I would suggest working from a wireframe.† here are a few samples from what im doing right now that show the development from wireframe to animation.† im not going to pretend that the animation is great, and they suffer from requiring that the head remain static and therfore ugly, but the pieces do stay for the most part properly aligned and in proportion because they were planned in advance with simple lines instead of by trying to get the whole drawing right at once.† the other nice thing about the wireframe is that it forces you to redraw everything instead of pushpulling into place (which you havent done much of but it's good to watch out for)


A mistake is a mistake.
The same mistake twice is a bad habit.
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Offline dragonrc

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #50 on: February 08, 2007, 06:39:20 pm
@entivore
Wow, thanx that image will help a lot. Especially with the left foot.

@Adarias
 :o Amazing sprites. I'll try to do the animation with a wireframe, I hope it will turn out as good as yours :D
Maby I should post the wireframe when I finnish it first.

Thanks guys, I'm really thankfull for your help

Offline dragonrc

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #51 on: February 10, 2007, 05:48:17 pm
I managed to put something together, I only made the wireframe because I want to have the movement right before I start the sprite;)


Thanks again adarias for the advice about the wireframe ;D

Offline dragonrc

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #52 on: February 10, 2007, 10:30:29 pm
I managed to put something together, I only made the wireframe because I want to have the movement right before I start the sprite;)


Thanks again adarias for the advice about the wireframe ;D


EDIT:
Just made this for fun :D :




 :durr: why did I press the quote button instead of the modify button :huh:
« Last Edit: February 10, 2007, 10:34:14 pm by dragonrc »

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #53 on: February 10, 2007, 11:09:32 pm
vast improvements - you are headed in the right direction, keep it up!

Offline dragonrc

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #54 on: February 11, 2007, 12:00:25 pm
UPDATE:

With frame (it's slightly different of the one without but that's because I edited some frames afterwards)


Here it is, the new walk animation. (the second one is with an edit, but I'm not really sure about it...)

I think it has improved but the left leg is looking unfinished to me...

Offline sharprm

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #55 on: February 11, 2007, 01:32:53 pm
This has really improved but i still think there are some problems. As the feet are sliding along the ground (so their height won't
be changing) shouldn't they follow that straight line (that is 2 across, then one up, then two across). His (actual) right foot
seems to be too far down just before it lifts off the ground.
Modern artists are told that they must create something totally original-or risk being called "derivative".They've been indoctrinated with the concept that bad=good.The effect is always the same: Meaningless primitivism
http://www.artrenewal.org/articles/Philosophy/phi

Offline dragonrc

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #56 on: February 11, 2007, 07:17:59 pm

Hope this fixes it ;)

Offline dragonrc

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #57 on: February 14, 2007, 12:48:57 pm
The coloring has begun!:

With or without the gloves with gold?
Any other crits? I'm sure there will be, I don't think it's really bad but something seems wrong.

edit:
fixed the broken link

Offline ndchristie

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #58 on: February 14, 2007, 01:09:27 pm
im feeling as though there isnt enough to his design.  The blue hair + blue uniform = flat, the desate midvalue gold + desat midvalue blue = flat.  If you could, i would try to break him up into at very least two main values and two main colors.  the gold is a good start but i think there should be more of it and brighter.  also, i had liked the nice firm lines yould had on the walk cycle, id bring those back were i you.  Thats all design stuff though, this one is well aligned and a significant improvement over the beginning
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Offline Delgneith

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #59 on: February 14, 2007, 03:43:14 pm
I really like how far this has come but feel the new version with the armor still has the same problems as the old one.

Why not try making his legs and arms a different color to help the chest piece, gloves and boots or whatever stand out a bit more.

I also think you have got to get away from highlighting absolutely every little section of the armor with the same value high light. It really creates a weird optical effect and stuff further away from the light or blocked by something in front of the light it would receive, shouldn't be as bright as something right directly in the sunlight. I'd say worry less about trying to get the armor "shiny" right away and more about getting your general volumes down and add some more colors to the armor so it doesn't look like a big blue jumpsuit.

Offline dragonrc

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #60 on: February 16, 2007, 04:55:48 pm


† † † † † † /more gold--more gold,less shiney--different color top--different color bottom--different color
† †original
solid lines\more gold--more gold,less shiney--different color top--different color bottom--different color

I also put it on a bright and a dark bg so that's comparable too.


I think the 'more gold,less shiney' without the solid lines is the best one untill now

Offline ndchristie

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #61 on: February 16, 2007, 07:15:00 pm
its a definate improvment, but i think instead of making a noisey design by having lots of small gold bits, it would be better for the visual impression to have a smaller number of larger gold-hued sections (this includes the face)
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Offline dragonrc

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #62 on: February 17, 2007, 09:41:36 am

Messed around with the gold colors a bit.
This is the result:

Makes it more goldish and makes it stand out more
« Last Edit: February 17, 2007, 09:49:59 am by dragonrc »

Offline dragonrc

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #63 on: February 17, 2007, 04:03:48 pm

Here is the design I got from the project leader at the request of sharpm. (it's not a good drawing but it gives a basic image of the sprite)

Recently it isn't going that well with the project, the programming has extremely slow progress and 2 spriters already left the project.
The projectleader isn't replying my mails anymore. I think the project is down, there was no contract singed (damnit stupid stupid stupid)
I'll keep working on the sprites in case the project continues but if the project leader won't respond to my e-mails I'll claim the sprites as my own. I might even start my own project, but that's thinking to far ahead.
Anyway I thaught you should know this..

Don't worry I'll keep working on these sprites and again my thanks to everyone that has helped me, I'm learning so much from this† ;D


edit:
I can still claim the sprites as my own since the project might be down, right?

And did any of you experienced something like this? Is there something I should do now the project leader isn't replying anymore?
« Last Edit: February 17, 2007, 05:26:29 pm by dragonrc »

Offline Souly

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #64 on: February 17, 2007, 04:34:37 pm
Well it's just squares.
Quite boring if you ask me.

Offline dragonrc

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #65 on: February 17, 2007, 04:47:22 pm
Yeah, I'm trying to make it look better now, I'm working on a cape now like sharpm suggested(pretty hard to make it look realistic)

Offline entivore

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #66 on: February 18, 2007, 03:55:22 am
If you weren't compensated in any way for making these, and there's no contract then yes, of course, they are yours.† The only thing borrowed is the basic character design which is too vague to be considered anyhow.

"The project leader isn't replying my mails anymore"

I've always found such behaviour beyond rude.† Even if I flake out on something, I still stay in touch with anyone who cares.† It's cowardly and disrespectful at best.

In any case, keep working on your sprites.† If you get good enough, and get enough done, I'm sure other people will take interest.† There's no shortage of "programmer looking for artist" types afterall.† It's inspiring to see how much effort and perseverance you've been putting into this little guy.

Oh, and yeah, amateur projects breaking down is VERY common.  In fact, it's the rule, not the exception.  Don't feel discouraged.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2007, 03:56:58 am by entivore »
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Offline dragonrc

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #67 on: February 19, 2007, 04:03:58 pm
I've been thinking about changing the character design a bit and since sharpm send me a message about changing the design I think I will. I'm not very good at drawing with pencils but its worth a try.

I've read a post at pixeljoint about setting up your monitor properly( http://www.pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3710 ), I've done as it was said there but now all my pixels look very bright and I can't see the following lines (the ones that I now colored red) Can you guys see those lines? Without looking very sharp I mean
« Last Edit: February 19, 2007, 04:05:33 pm by dragonrc »

Offline Xion

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #68 on: February 19, 2007, 09:43:27 pm
That armor in the drawing doesn't make sense. Looks like the dude's got a bunch of post-it notes stuck to him. I say you scrap that design and come up with something more sensible. And good. Make it simple, but memorable. His fashion's gotta make a statement that says "I'm heroic, baby!"
*cough* umm...okay.

I'm not sure what you're asking in the last post. Could you reiterate?

Offline Helm

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #69 on: February 20, 2007, 01:36:58 am
I see these lines. They're faint but clear. You probably overcalibrated towards brightness.

Offline AdamAtomic

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #70 on: February 20, 2007, 07:51:47 am
That armor in the drawing doesn't make sense. Looks like the dude's got a bunch of post-it notes stuck to him.

Post-it notes with apostrophes drawn on them :P  There's not a whole lot you can do with your character if you intend on staying loyal to the letter of the design.  I'd take it more like "this guy is supposed to be covered with simple plate armor," and then actually come up with a design that will read and look exciting.  Right now it looks like he was attacked by a passive-aggressive person with a penchant for extremely short quotations.

Offline dragonrc

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #71 on: February 20, 2007, 04:11:38 pm
Since the project is down (I've heard of the leader for 16 days now :( ) I claim this sprite as my own. This means I can change the design too. First I drew a few sketches but they all sucked so I tried changing the design by just wessing around with the pixels
Result:

It's not done, I didn't add much detail to it, I just posted it here to get your advice for the design.
Is it an improvement?† Should I change anything? I think It looks better now, but the legs look a little weird...

Offline Serendor

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #72 on: February 20, 2007, 09:14:22 pm
I like the new model... its not so "stuffy"

still I can't say what to improve, except the left foot seems a little bit... strange : /

maybe removing the 2 last pixel rows...

//Albin

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #73 on: February 21, 2007, 12:42:13 pm
Quick Edit, tried to address the few nit-picky things that were bugging me.  Its a lot more extensive than i originally thought it would be, so theres a lot there i dont expect you to like/use ^^


this piece has come so far since you set the thread up.  a few more looks-over and imo youve done enough - move one to animation :)
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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #74 on: February 21, 2007, 02:27:53 pm
Hm... Adarias, are you sure suggesting to him that he uses flesh shades as speculars on metal, and brown shades on blue hair is a good idea?

Offline ndchristie

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #75 on: February 21, 2007, 02:58:19 pm
are you suggesting it isnt?
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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #76 on: February 21, 2007, 04:29:09 pm
Yes. flesh shade on metal makes no sense, and further -because not making physical sense is not a dealbreaker for game art - it makes it look as if the armor has holes in it through which we see the flesh. Brown on blue hair just seems to me as if he's dirty. Both of these suggestions in my opinion smell of 'use colors on other colors since you have them' which as you should in your own artistic path have noticed, is a very easy thing to abuse.

edit: so I'm not just countering critique, here's something I'd suggest. Simplicity, readability and a small controlled palette I think suits this sort of art more

« Last Edit: February 21, 2007, 04:48:56 pm by Helm »

Offline ndchristie

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #77 on: February 21, 2007, 05:53:20 pm
not to derail the topic, but fleshtones is reflected on metal all the time.  dirt, wood, stone, grass, and many types of building materials all cast that color on metal while the sky reflects those blues. Personally, i find that they complement each other nicely and tone down the armor, which too me looked too crayola. The brown in the hair again is just to take the color down by adding a complement.  It doesnt seem at all to have holes in it to me, although sprites of this size are rather open to interpretation. 

i also would be careful about defining or redefining why people do certain things, or what they should or should not have noticed, or label things as abuses, or claiming that perfectly reasonable things do not make physical sense.  In my experience, That kind of talk has never served anyone.

I like your edit in that the forms are more clear.  i worry about making the midsection armor appear to be spandex though, as many games do, when they remove all of the shines.  perhaps there is some better medium?
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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #78 on: February 21, 2007, 05:56:36 pm
The thing about pixelart for games that is this small is that it needs to be readable. The original and your edit just looked too cluttered. Yes metal reflects skintones and other stuff, but does that help at such a size? Not really.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline ndchristie

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #79 on: February 21, 2007, 06:07:48 pm
i agree, ptoing, and i don't have any problem with simplification aside from the spandex issue, which i think can be resolved easily.  Had that been the only thing said, that would have been great, but there was quite a bit more said there that i found concerning.
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Offline dragonrc

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #80 on: February 22, 2007, 04:02:40 pm
Thanks for all those replies, they helped a lot
@Adarias
About the flesh reflection, I agree with ptoing. But your edit wasn't for nothing, You didn't only change the colors but you the pose a little as well and that helped a lot.
@helm
Your edit looks awesome! I agree with simplicity, if this small piece becomes too complex it will only make confusion. One thing I donít understand though, you said it needed a small controlled palette, but what do you exactly mean?

I think my biggest problems now are the color choices, Iíve read some topics about them but damn they are though to understand. Any tips on what Iím doing wrong, the contrast? Or maybe the brightness?

Here are the edits I made, Iím not sure about the right leg and the colors but the rest looks good IMO.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2007, 11:28:31 pm by dragonrc »

Offline dragonrc

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #81 on: February 23, 2007, 01:04:18 pm
Update:

colorchange with the help on pixeljoint.


-Damnit, quoted myself again instead of modifying it :durr: -

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #82 on: February 23, 2007, 07:30:51 pm
I dont know about this RPG character  :mean: it has been on the forums for a while and I still have my doubts...
When you made the new animation from scratch (with the brown/red shirt) I thought you where going in the right direction, but you've fallen back into your old route sortaspeak... I do need to have one thing said: do not use the dude with the blue armor anymore! Its kinda pillow-shaded and has a bad animation... Use your new one and make hig legs move with less... spasm :P

anyway good luck  :hehe:

Offline ndchristie

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #83 on: February 23, 2007, 07:51:35 pm
i beleive the new one used simple clothes to help pick out body parts during animation, and that the progress made there is now going to be translated to this design.

I agree though that the other had much better definition.  See my previous post about that.

One big thing i still see is the arm being straight.  The wrist should align itself with the stock of a man's genitals and the hand should cintinue to roughtly mid-thigh.  If his arm is straight, based on the positions of his hands, then it is too short.  Either having the arms bent at the eblow (more natural) or move the hands down (more stiff looking) will solve this length issue.
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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #84 on: February 23, 2007, 10:32:13 pm

Fixed the arm :)
Still having doubts about using the milder inner lines or not...

And I agree with you about that the one in the brown/red shirt has better definition. I was thinking about just finishing this character, create a new head character and use this one as a NPC knight or something if I make this into a game since this character is causing a lot of trouble because of it's design. And after I created a new head character I just go on with animating the new head character.

Offline dragonrc

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #85 on: March 05, 2007, 02:08:11 pm
I took a break on this for a week or two but I'm back on this again :)
I descided to ditch the blue armour, it didn't work out anyway.
And I made a new character.
I kept it simple like you guys suggested and I added a scarf so it still is recognisable.


I made two versions, I'm having some doubts about the arm, should I use the dark outlines or the soft outlines?

edit:
Just noticed something, are the arms bending enough? Espesially his right one.

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #86 on: March 05, 2007, 02:12:21 pm
Not to be rude but what the critique says hasnt been put into action.

Use highlights and use the colour black.

Offline dragonrc

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #87 on: March 06, 2007, 05:20:26 pm

Colorchange, like the last two best.
Tried to make highlights on the last one but I think it pops out to much...0
(about the pose, I accedentally recolored the 1st frame of the animation instead of the normal stance :crazy:)
« Last Edit: March 06, 2007, 08:37:21 pm by dragonrc »

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #88 on: March 06, 2007, 11:31:01 pm
Tried to make highlights on the last one but I think it pops out to much...0
No, I like the last one best.
You're dithering an animation? That might look wierd.

Offline dragonrc

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #89 on: March 07, 2007, 09:18:48 pm

Walk animation with the recolored sprite.
next things to do:
-make the right arm bend a little better
-some small edits on the animation
-make some tiles so I can place the character on a bg to see if it fits (never done tiles b4)
-other possible edits
« Last Edit: March 08, 2007, 07:21:18 am by Panda »

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #90 on: March 07, 2007, 11:47:44 pm
looking really fluid.  I am not a fan of the colors, but this should get featured as it is a very useful thread on how to make animated tactics characters.

Offline ndchristie

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #91 on: March 08, 2007, 02:30:02 am
just going to restate the need for definition and contrast.  the moment you place that sprite on a even a simple background, he's going to get lost.  He needs to reach out and grab the viewers' attention, right now he fades away faster than an old soldier who wants to nuke korea.

also, could you remove the imageshack link?
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Offline dragonrc

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #92 on: March 09, 2007, 10:33:02 pm

A slight change of colors, I'll try some more extreme colorchanges tomorrow. (and I'll also work on the outlines a bit)

Started some tiles, this is my first time making tiles so advice is welcole.
I did 2 totally different styles, one is detailed and gives more definition, but maybe it's a bit too busy.
The other one is a gentle smooth tile.
I'm still expirimenting with other styles.

I did these in mspaint, it was pretty though to let the tiles connect. Do you guys use some sort of programm that makes a sort of connection? I know there is a tilemaker, but it only does topdown tiles. Is it advisable to use this programm to make topdown tiles and to make them iso in an other programm later?

Also, for some reason these tiles don't really connect well If I remove the outlines, some parts have to overlap to fit, am I using a wrong size?

I'll post other updates when they are finished ;)

(sorry about the last imageshack link last time)

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #93 on: March 10, 2007, 01:37:06 am
I really like that first tile, I don't know of any programs that can work that way with iso tiles, though :/.

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #94 on: March 10, 2007, 03:57:17 am


   I'm sorry, but I feel there are too many colors for such a small piece. The current palette isn't so pretty either. Everything seems so...muddy. Absolutely no dark colors anywhere, to help contrast, or pop the brighter hues. I know critiques of contrast coming from me, of all people, seems hypocritical in itself. But from experience, and making these same mistakes over and over myself, I must warn you, to stray away from these muddy colors, and don't be afraid test the limits of the values you select! Throw in some deeper and darker colors along with some brighter colors. In this case, you were using some dark colors, but they weren't dark enough to pop it up a notch.
   Knowing this, I decided to just basically scrap out some of your initial colors, and just basically give a dark outline around some parts of the character(seeing as how I shared Adarias's opinion in that the characters themselves would be muddled within the tile work.). I didn't really change your palette much, other than like, 2 colors.(any more, and it would have looked like dragon puke!) It doesn't necessarily mean that you have to use dark or black outlines, but it wouldn't hurt to take consideration. As of right now, it's looking very hard to recognize some details in such a small and compact area.
   Remember, if it's small try to keep it simple, especially considering that you are going to animate it. That is unless the client specifically asks for an uber detailed style. Otherwise, take break home-slice...
« Last Edit: March 10, 2007, 09:08:21 am by The B.O.B. »
my back hurts...

Offline dragonrc

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #95 on: March 10, 2007, 11:27:53 am
Thanks sharprm for the pm about the tiles, now I don't have to worry about the tiles 'not connecting :) .

@The B.O.B.
I agree that this piece has many colors, but I don't think it really matters. There are three reasons why someone would want to use as lesser colors.
1.Because they can't use more, that was in the time there wasn't something like 32 bit, they only had some colors they could use(like in helm's avatar)
2.Because they want to reduce the filesize, this is one of the biggest reasons why most sprites have lesser colors, but computers now are able to store much more files with bigger sizes then a few years ago. Those few bytes won't even matter anymore.
3.Just to show they can make a piece with lesser colors and still make it look good.
here is a little colorreduce I made:

It lost 6 colors, but it only lost 16 bytes in filesize, that's only 3% of it's original size. Is that worth the loss of detail? It hasn't lost much detail, but it did lose some.
But don't misunderstand me, I think that using as less colors as possible is very good in some pieces, especially in static pieces that aren't used in a game, I often see pieces and think 'what only 5 colors? that amazing!' and I've set a limit for myself too, I try to keep every piece I make under 32 colors, I think that's a fair maximum. I don't see a really good reason why I should reduce the colors in this piece. But if you really think it does matter, feel free to correct me ;)
Also, one of the reasons why this piece has that many colors is because I work very chaotic, look at the highlights on the arms and the head, they arent even the same color :sry:. I think I can reduce the colorcount without losing any detail and I will do that, but I'll do it after the sprite has reached it's final version.

I think you're right about it being too muddy, I made a little edit:

1. old one
2. other colors
3. I studied many pieces and finally found out why my shading and highlighting looked so dumb, I realised that I shouldn't only change the brightness but that I also should change other things a bit to make it look good.†
4. very small changes
5. Darker outlines, it looks pretty different, but that's not a bad thing and I like this pretty much.

edit:
I think I'm going to use the first tile and make the other tiles in the same style because it matches the character more
« Last Edit: March 10, 2007, 11:30:39 am by dragonrc »

Offline ndchristie

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #96 on: March 10, 2007, 12:32:08 pm
the low color count concept is a little misleading in that, in itself, more colors is not a bad thing, now that space for images is so much higher than it used to be and computers are far more capable of displaying them, and there are plenty of things done with low color counts that should have higher.

the root of the concept though is that it forces a certain unity (from mixing ramps) and contrast (from having so few intermediates) that your piece hasnt ever had.  these would benefit your piece in the extreme, which manages to be overrendered and low contrast, qualities which typically are contradictory.  THe lighting in this piece doesnt help either, since it doesnt make a tremendous lot of sense.

These are all criticisms that have been voiced many times, and im afraid you arent going to hear much else until these issues are solved.
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Offline dragonrc

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #97 on: March 10, 2007, 01:48:02 pm
Ok I'll solve those things, but first, I want to clearify some things since I don't understand everything you said

Quote
the root of the concept though is that it forces a certain unity (from mixing ramps) and contrast (from having so few intermediates) that your piece hasnt ever had
This means that there is not enough unity, right?

Quote
these would benefit your piece in the extreme, which manages to be overrendered and low contrast, qualities which typically are contradictory.† THe lighting in this piece doesnt help either, since it doesnt make a tremendous lot of sense.
rendering and contrast, 2 words I thought that I knew what they meant but maybe they mean something else...
Would you please explain these 2 terms for me, it may be a bit noobish since they are pretty basic but hey, it's better to ask now then to go on without knowing what it means. (oh, I tried google, but it didn't help anything)

Quote
THe lighting in this piece doesnt help either, since it doesnt make a tremendous lot of sense.
why not? since there is no lightsource? Or is the way I use the lighting wrong?

Thanks for all the help guys

Offline Rerg1

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #98 on: March 10, 2007, 09:02:31 pm
Use black, make folds.
I dont think your'e following your critique properly.

Offline Xion

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #99 on: March 10, 2007, 09:51:04 pm
Thanks sharprm for the pm about the tiles, now I don't have to worry about the tiles 'not connecting :) .

@The B.O.B.
I agree that this piece has many colors, but I don't think it really matters. There are three reasons why someone would want to use as lesser colors.
1.Because they can't use more, that was in the time there wasn't something like 32 bit, they only had some colors they could use(like in helm's avatar)
2.Because they want to reduce the filesize, this is one of the biggest reasons why most sprites have lesser colors, but computers now are able to store much more files with bigger sizes then a few years ago. Those few bytes won't even matter anymore.
3.Just to show they can make a piece with lesser colors and still make it look good.
You're missing one:
4. Because any more colors would be pointless.

Sometimes low color count has nothing to do with any of your reasons, but rather people choose it just because the piece is fine with those few colors, and adding any more would be pointless. Also, animations are much easier to do with fewer colors, especially if you're going to be doing alot of them.
I think an ongoing problem with the armor that B.O.B. adresses but doesn't have much anything to do with colorcount is the fact that its darkest colors are all very saturated.
I also think that the shirt's hilight should take up more space. As well as the pants'.

Your piece is...
Quote
overrendered
Thank you, Adarias that's what I was looking for. Higher contrast and implied details is what this needs rather than having each detail drawn out fully rendered. Rather than showing an object by outline, like each armor segment, or the division between the shirt and pants, show things by value: light and shadow. This will allow you to fit far more detail in without actually having the detail taken up by cumbersome outlines (or, since they're inside the guy, I guess they'd be called inlines).

Use black, make folds.
I dont think your'e following your critique properly.
He's following critique fine. This has come a very long way since the first iteration. Dragon, you get my praise for your perseverence.

Offline dragonrc

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #100 on: March 11, 2007, 04:27:09 pm
Thanks Xion :)

I made an update, it's not much but it took me quite some time to get things right:

1.previous sprite
2.updated version, tried to get more unity in it by mixing the colors so the shirt and the pants would blend a little.
I also made some changes to the reflection of the light, it isn't focussing on 1 spot now.
3.darker outlines
4.darker outlines and inlines, I don't like it but I post it anyway
5.mayby this looks better?..
6.an update of 2, updated the inner lines a bit. also editted the lightsource on the leg
I hope I fixed the things you all pointed out

Right now, the sprite has become a pretty complex, it looks good but it may be difficult to animate it like B.O.B. said earlier. I'm still going to try to animate it even if it stays complex, it will cost a lot of time but it's worth it. If it won't look good I'll try to make the frames more simple, maybe that will work.(so, keep the stance frame as it is and make the walking frames simple)

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #101 on: March 11, 2007, 04:34:24 pm
What's going to make this hard to animate is the amount of colours and the dithering...

But you've come a long way, keep it up.  :y:

Offline dragonrc

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #102 on: March 13, 2007, 04:30:51 pm
Here is the animation:

It took me pretty long to get things right, but it's finally done ;D.

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Re: (WIP) tactics character(s)

Reply #103 on: March 13, 2007, 11:46:50 pm
You've made progress, but you still haven't learned to color well enough. The walk looks pretty good but for coloring you should really study some good iso sprites. Look at Adarias's sprites for example to understand how to color so your sprite doesn't look so muddy. The dithering and colors do not help, or express the character's clothing well enough. The hair needs some work also, but it is not bad.

I can't stress it enough. Study some iso bases and sprites and attempt to folow the same examples.