AuthorTopic: [Wip] help needed :S  (Read 9043 times)

Offline and2

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[Wip] help needed :S

on: January 04, 2007, 11:00:37 am
hey guys, im having trouble with this so far..


i need help on the body..

i think my anatomy is a mess..?

small update:


sad, sad, update:


update?:
« Last Edit: January 06, 2007, 07:51:09 am by and2 »

Offline Aeon Vision

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Re: [Wip] help needed :S

Reply #1 on: January 04, 2007, 11:17:44 am
Heya mate, looking great, but.
Your anotomy for the lower-upper body part is good.
You'll only need to move the chest a bit down.

Why not finish your other work before starting with this?  ???

Offline and2

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Re: [Wip] help needed :S

Reply #2 on: January 04, 2007, 11:31:35 am
cheers bro. ill work on that and post an update soon  ;)

Offline DevilDRake

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Re: [Wip] help needed :S

Reply #3 on: January 04, 2007, 11:59:49 am
haaayy :P :P hurry up and colour it :P :P waiting to see what it looks like.

Offline and2

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Re: [Wip] help needed :S

Reply #4 on: January 04, 2007, 12:20:25 pm

update on Aeons CC  ;)

now body looks a bit short? maybe its just me.. what u think and how can i fix?
« Last Edit: January 04, 2007, 12:23:52 pm by and2 »

Offline DevilDRake

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Re: [Wip] help needed :S

Reply #5 on: January 04, 2007, 12:25:13 pm
its alot better now, sure theres still a little gap but not much to worry about. its always funny your never do anything on the face.. dont like facial things lol?

gotta learn them sometime

Offline baccaman21

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Re: [Wip] help needed :S

Reply #6 on: January 04, 2007, 02:52:13 pm
Hi And2 - Excuse me for being lazy but I feel a repost of an old post coming on... the points I make in it are relative to your work I've seen of yours so far. you seem to be quite into figurative stuff so I thought i'd point out a few things for you to either take on board or ignore... tis up to you sir...

so - here goes...

it just started with a sketch in geography the other day.. didnt think I'd take it as far as I already have and now the messed up anatomy is really bugging me

Ive never really studied anatomy or anything before.. so any help or advice would be greatly apreciated

process animation:


Hey Takem... Looking good but It strikes me the intial sketch needs tightening up before you move on to the pixels IMO.

Your initial sketch demonstrates how to draw surface form. There's nothing wrong with working like that however it does help if you can begin to look through the surface as you're sketching. Define the underlying structure and work up from there helps a lot. Adding clothing, hair and other surface detail at the end. By doing this you manage to build form and structure into the final image giving it weight and solidity.

When doing the initial sketch you need to start looking through the form. Rough in the line of the spine, then cross that with a line indicating your shoulder postition. These two line should be enough to give a flow to the drawing. Give you an idea of general postioning and posture. Once you're happy with that, move on and begin to Visualise the main masses in spheres. I usually begin with the head - focusing on seeing the postion of the head in particuilar the eyes and eye postions, then work backwards. Neck, clavicles, shoulder mass, throrax, abdomen. Always revising the intial sketch as you go.

Bottom line is you HAVE to SEE the masses that make up the underlying structure. Feel your way around the sketch. Using your own body as reference if you get a bit confused. (A mirror sometimes helps here)

Here's a scribble I did based on your intial sketch... it's not perfect by any strectch of the imagination, but should give you a better idea of the process.



Cheers
Pete :)


I've siad this elsewhere so i'm paraphrasing a previous post i've made a long time ago... but it applies to what you're doing here...

You need to understand that all artists use construction and form to create their work - perception of underlying structure (even if ultimately you can't SEE it) is so important to making the final result believable. Even if it's stylised...

The mistake you are making is getting to 'into' coloring your work prior to setting down a solid frame work... drawing is like building a house, you need the idea to begin with, the layout of the house, the floorplan, before you EVEN begin to BUILD IT physically you need to design it... what you're doing here is jumping too far ahead too soon. You're building the roof before the walls have gone in. Your're painting the walls before you've plastered the ceiling...You need to take some steps backwards in order to move forwards.

Draw THROUGH the image, to see the form of the arms, where the shoulders plug into the upper body, where the neck plugs into the thorax where all these points are in relation to the clothing - you've got a nice start - i like what yopu're trying to do... you just need to take a step back - if you can get those masses in then creating the flows, folds and creases of the clothing becomes really simple, because you can SEE where it will be pulling on which parts of the body and so on...

Finally, anatomically speaking you're a bit out - obviously you have some understanding of muscles around the torso... pecs, abs etc - but you're lacking in true understanding of how they connect. This can only come with experience and study - starting with the underlying structure - i.e. the skeleton... which comes back full circle to what I was saying in my initial quote to TakaM...

Here's a couple of great links to follow for anatomical study...

http://www.reybustos.com/03ra/Quantae_mx.htm
http://www.tsofa.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=41&sid=5759fcf22efc2b91933f72293b5488d4
http://www.tsofa.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=7&sid=5759fcf22efc2b91933f72293b5488d4

have fun and good luck...

Buy the book - The Animator's Survival Kit by Richard Williams

www.burnzombieburn.com

Offline and2

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Re: [Wip] help needed :S

Reply #7 on: January 04, 2007, 11:57:27 pm
woah.. thats a lot to take in, but what you have said makes perfectly good sense in many ways. I am going to try what you have told me and give my drawing structure. I'm only 15 and its a lot to think about i guess, but i gotta start somewhere  :y: thanks for the time you have spent explaining this to me. it will come in handy in the future.

Offline and2

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Re: [Wip] help needed :S

Reply #8 on: January 05, 2007, 02:58:17 am
sorry about the double post, but i think the arm looks awefully awkward  :'(
im going to make him be holding someone by the neck but im not sure if thats the right pose  :(
and i think that the anatomy is terrable aswell

edit: oops it would help if i posted the picture lol
« Last Edit: January 05, 2007, 03:03:23 am by and2 »

Offline sharprm

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Re: [Wip] help needed :S

Reply #9 on: January 05, 2007, 04:21:48 am
Modern artists are told that they must create something totally original-or risk being called "derivative".They've been indoctrinated with the concept that bad=good.The effect is always the same: Meaningless primitivism
http://www.artrenewal.org/articles/Philosophy/phi

Offline DevilDRake

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Re: [Wip] help needed :S

Reply #10 on: January 05, 2007, 04:40:25 am
sharp that will probably help him alot, thanks ill tell him on msn now.

Offline Rydin

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Re: [Wip] help needed :S

Reply #11 on: January 05, 2007, 05:08:30 am
Besides what's already been said, anatomy wise especially, and the whole "frame it out first" mentality, I find it amazing how you've managed to use 5 different blacks.  Sure, up-close you can tell the shades apart, but from far away, they all melt into one color.  The same goes true with the reds that you've used.  I think this piece would definitely benefit from a more contrasting pallet, especially just in the red and green shades; you've got the right idea with the second row of colors, just expand it to the other colors. Good luck with this pic.
Man cannot remake himself without suffering for he is both the marble and the sculptor.

Offline and2

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Re: [Wip] help needed :S

Reply #12 on: January 05, 2007, 12:01:05 pm
okay im starting to fix up the anatomy. and im changing the cape thing completly..

ref: http://www.cs.miami.edu/~geoff/Seminars/HowToGiveASeminar/BodyBuilder.JPG

update:


heres the body alone.. I need a bit of help  ???
« Last Edit: January 05, 2007, 12:19:36 pm by and2 »

Offline baccaman21

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Re: [Wip] help needed :S

Reply #13 on: January 05, 2007, 12:44:37 pm
Good work fella - that's the spirit... congratulations for being brave and taking a step in the right direction.

But a word of warning... don't just copy from the photo directly... try and understand what's going on with that beast of a man you're using as reference as you're making progress with your piece... I'm not saying you'll figure out everything in one sitting but ask yourself why those muscles bulge the way they do? Why there are muscles there in the first place? How do they connect to the underlying structure (skeleton)? and so on...

Don't be afraid to rub out or work over what you've already spent time creating - if it's not right - it's not right... just because you may have spent hour pixelling the torso - if it's wrong... it's wrong and there's nothing you can do about it... that's part of the learning curve bud...

You have an idea in your head of what you're wanting to achieve right? There's a guy, with a hooded (collared) cape, pretty buff, gripping some other guy (girl? monster? whatever) be the throat? you need to rough it out... get it down quickly... scribble it... it doesn't matter how rough it is... but iron out any problems with the pose, the positions, the composition FIRST... remember to CONSTRUCT.

here you go... something like this...


like I said... rough as you like... but you start to get the form going...
Buy the book - The Animator's Survival Kit by Richard Williams

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Offline Aeon Vision

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Re: [Wip] help needed :S

Reply #14 on: January 05, 2007, 04:26:20 pm
Heh bacca, saying your lazy and then make such a long post  :-*.

Here's a, yes I know, small edit:

This is what I've ment with the chest  :)

Offline and2

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Re: [Wip] help needed :S

Reply #15 on: January 06, 2007, 07:50:22 am
mmkay.. i changed a few things, what you guys think?  ???

Offline Senad

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Re: [Wip] help needed :S

Reply #16 on: January 06, 2007, 08:47:55 am
thats better  :y: just something bugs me with his chest.. still cant figer out what
God forgive him for his sins I know its was his last minute, You spread his wings so he can only fly.. He will allways be a legend in our hearts and legends never die..

R.I.P Tose Proeski ~Senad

Offline and2

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Re: [Wip] help needed :S

Reply #17 on: January 06, 2007, 09:08:30 am
hehe, if u can find out what that 1 thing is please tell me, i want this toi be perfect  :lol:

Offline sharprm

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Re: [Wip] help needed :S

Reply #18 on: January 06, 2007, 09:51:07 am
I don't think anything turns out perfect, there's always flaws (I think Persian carpet makers deliberately put them in). Drawing anatomy
from scratch is very hard thing to do, I can't even do it. You should instead base your picture off a photo reference (that's be easier).

His right arm looks wrong, the muscle looks like its kinda slapped on. Also the lower bit seems to wide in comparison to top bit. Where the left arm joins the body seems weird to me. The palette and the way its shaded reminds me more of a jelly level in James Pond rather than skin. Should you not complete the outline for the head, legs, and the guy he is strangling first?
Modern artists are told that they must create something totally original-or risk being called "derivative".They've been indoctrinated with the concept that bad=good.The effect is always the same: Meaningless primitivism
http://www.artrenewal.org/articles/Philosophy/phi

Offline and2

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Re: [Wip] help needed :S

Reply #19 on: January 06, 2007, 10:23:51 am
lol thanks, your right.. ill get on with the picture and when I'm happy with everything else ill come back and do my best to try and fix the flaws and anything that doesn't quite look right.

Offline RhysD

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Re: [Wip] help needed :S

Reply #20 on: January 06, 2007, 11:22:36 am
I think his lower torso should be further back so his chest area is overhanging it a bit..if you get what i'm saying.

quick edit to show what I meant (chest goes right, lower torso goes left)



edit: actually...I dont know right now...is he meant to be leaning back in the original? I think I got a bit confused as to what people were noticing was wrong about the chest.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2007, 11:24:29 am by RhysD »

Offline sharprm

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Re: [Wip] help needed :S

Reply #21 on: January 06, 2007, 12:01:34 pm
Here's an edit. Less Jellyness in my opinion. I tried cramming as much as I could from Baccaman's sites into my small mind before
drawing it. Don't just base your lines off my edit, try doing the whole process yourself. Draw the skeleton, wack muscles on it, etc.

« Last Edit: January 06, 2007, 02:36:06 pm by sharprm »
Modern artists are told that they must create something totally original-or risk being called "derivative".They've been indoctrinated with the concept that bad=good.The effect is always the same: Meaningless primitivism
http://www.artrenewal.org/articles/Philosophy/phi

Offline Senad

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Re: [Wip] help needed :S

Reply #22 on: January 06, 2007, 10:48:42 pm
yup thats awesome sharprm :), u got tablet? I want one  :-[
God forgive him for his sins I know its was his last minute, You spread his wings so he can only fly.. He will allways be a legend in our hearts and legends never die..

R.I.P Tose Proeski ~Senad

Offline Chaos Tayoko

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Re: [Wip] help needed :S

Reply #23 on: January 06, 2007, 10:55:33 pm
sharprm basicaly fixed wat i was about to say, the guy had no rib cage, and he looks like a block of jello. Keep it up AND 2
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