AuthorTopic: [WIP] Gameboy-style  (Read 34132 times)

Offline Tenshi

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Re: [WIP] Gameboy-style

Reply #50 on: January 05, 2007, 08:50:54 pm
Ryona showed me this topic on #Pixelation.

- While I agree with you on the issues of the outfit, Helm, I disagree on the objectification due to the gender of the creator. Women contribute just as much to this "material" these days as any man does; it's because of such cyclic contributions that nothing much is done about it. "After all, if both sides do it, then what's the problem, right?" The Sex-comedy Ranma 1/2, and some of the questionable material from InuYasha and Urusei Yatsura are all the work of Rumiko Takahashi, a woman, as a simple example. And as you may or may not know, material such as the above is rampant in Ranma.

- Now, anyone who remembers me from way back when on the old Pixelation / GDR forums knows I'm not going to sing praise. However I'm not going to insert a "her breasts are too big" comment either, because that is [at least from what we discussed] merely the point of the character, a sex object. Far be it for me to decree that sex objects cannot exist. And as far as I'm concerned as long as you label it as such and don't try to pretend it's something else, I'm not going to bother you.

- However, I do have a problem with the "kunoichi" bit. She is not a kunoichi. Kunoichi, by all definitions I have seen, were specially-trained women who assassinated their targets using sex, subtlety, and manipulation. The problem here is that people are drawn in by the popularized "exchange" of "Female ninja" with "kunoichi" that is popularized with such things as Dead or Alive and Naruto. In general, however, they are not equivalent. The age in which kunoichi were prominent was an age before women were considered [nearly] equal to men (we haven't reached that age yet even today). In a direct confrontation it would be highly improbably the woman would win, particularly these women, because they were very attractive, and as has been proven in many cases, strong women are not attractive (because strength requires muscle; yes, martial arts does work with technique , but with 0 muscle technique is worthless).
- As the definitions state, kunoichi would kill using poisons and concealed weapons, weapons that were often disguised as feminine objects such as purses, geisha parasols, and sex toys; since they could get close to their targets by their jobs, as tea servants and sex slaves.
- Therefore, a woman parading around in a bathing suit with a katana is not a kunoichi, because her weapon is way too obvious and no one's going to give her alpha strike advantage regardless of how much she's showing. Setsuka from Soul Calibur III can potentially be identified as one because her weapon is always hidden (even with her fighting style, which involves quick dashes and stabs and then re-concealing her weapon), but neither Taki nor Kasumi are. Now, while making a female ninja as sexed up as you want to is your perogative, to state "because kunoichi killed by using sex appeal and that's why I made her that way" isn't valid to anyone who knows a bit of history on the subject. Now, if her weapon was hidden in a feminine object, I'd be more inclined to buy into it, but her clothing implies too much "I'm a combatant," whereas... if you went more the "Red Ninja" route (as much as I hate that game), it'd be easier to write off as such.
- That is not to say that "female ninja" of the "ninja" type did not exist. However, if you check, those versions were as much covered as their male counterparts. Those were not the kind that employed sex outright though. So basically, there isn't much historically that backs up such a character, as those documents seem to suggest that they became one or the other categorically, and not that there were too many Kasumis running around.

- That said, you do have a lot of talent.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2007, 09:11:33 pm by Tenshi »
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Offline Conzeit

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Re: [WIP] Gameboy-style

Reply #51 on: January 06, 2007, 02:16:12 am
wow, nice one Tenshi! glad to see your point stated in such concise and fair manner, I also learnt some history while at it hahaha

on the sprite....check that topic where Baccaman made a tut for running anims, you should make the pendulum aspect of your gait much more apparant, so it doesnt look like a broken running anim, the slower the char moves the more obvious the pendulum aspect should be.

I'm also concerned about how you will diference the sprites from the foreground, you have to predetermine some way in which they'll stand apart from eachother.All I see right now in your mockup is the fact the bridge is a lighter gray, you must make a separate style for the foreground so the player wont confuse a decoration (take a gargoyle) with an enemy.

Offline Ryona

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Re: [WIP] Gameboy-style

Reply #52 on: January 06, 2007, 02:31:31 am
 :huh:

@ Tenshi: - Umm... Thanks?


*sighs*

I didn't want this whole project to start to turn into a debate on whether or not it's okay for women to make half nude/sexual art, and if it's wrong to create a character for the partial purpose of being eyecandy.

It's just a direction I took with this character because I simply wanted to. Anyone who knows me well enough knows that I rarely make sexual/kinky art. But that's besides the point.

I've had Life Drawing for a number of years, so I'm certainly not one to be bothered by making and seeing nude art. Also, sex is a form of art. Believe it or not but museums here have held exhibitions on the art of sex and sexuality. Not to mention it's expressed in artworks ranging between paintings, novels, comics, and video games by male AND female artists as Tenshi pointed out.

Now Tenshi, please keep in mind that I didn't call my character a kunoichi to justify her sexy appearance. Her appearance is what I was going for even before I decided to make her a ninja. She could have very well been some kind of female gladiator and she'd still look the same. I just figured because I gave her a katana that I'd call her a ninja, and from what I have read on kunoichi, I felt it would suit her pretty well.
Not to mention that I've seen a number of classic Japanese films in which the kunoichi does go into open combat with swords.
Also keep in mind that I'm not going for a realistic world in this game. It's a fantasy world where the main character fights robots, cyborgs, and mutant monsters in a city which sits on a man-made island.


Anyway... as I can see here, so far there's people who either like and support my work, or think my character looks horrible because of her sexualy suggestive appearance and poses, and/or think it's wrong for women to make nude/semi-nude/sexual art.

Now, I really like sharing my artwork with the community, but I'm seriously losing my enthusiasm to post anymore updates on this particular project.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2007, 02:38:14 am by Ryona »

Offline The B.O.B.

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Re: [WIP] Gameboy-style

Reply #53 on: January 06, 2007, 03:02:06 am
as I can see here, so far there's people who either like and support my work, or think my character looks horrible because of her sexualy suggestive appearance and poses, and/or think it's wrong for women to make nude/semi-nude/sexual art.

Now, I really like sharing my artwork with the community, but I'm seriously losing my enthusiasm to post anymore updates on this particular project.

   Aww! Don't get down. Tis just a wee debate occurring in your thread. I personally couldn't give a rat's a** of the gender of the artist. I care more about the ART itself. And from the looks of it, it's coming out quite swimmingly, if I say so myself.
   I'm gonna hop on the bandwagon, and say the running animation could use some tweaking.(maybe a few tween frames, to add more realistic motion.)
Also, I DON'T agree what everybody is saying about the wonky-ness of her ass in your latest cut scene. It looks fine to me, and the buttocks do make that shape when in that position.(Though I must admit, it is a bit ghetto, but I'm not complainin'...I likes the bootay..)...I think.
   Apart from the minor crits, it's still looking great. Now turn that frown upside down, and finish it.

...

or else...
my back hurts...

Offline Conzeit

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Re: [WIP] Gameboy-style

Reply #54 on: January 06, 2007, 03:37:27 am
what are you talking about Ryona? this isnt the only thing going on, I went to make sensible crits on your sprite and they were ignored because YOU were too focused on the whole sexuality issue. What you focus on is what we focus on, the talk about this has obviously affected you so it will continue.

I for one think that tenshi made a very good post, he does not nag at all about the whole woman making nekkid chicks issue, and he gave you information on one of your refferences. The fact that you use a fantastic setting does NOT mean you can be inconsistant with the references you use; if your world is so fantastical then why dont you create a new type of assasin unique to this world? that would make her all the more special as a character. Think...The Maverick Hunters of MegamanX, or the Foxhound unit of Metal Gear....making your character a member of a special group only existant in your universe gives them a lot more uniqueness.

if I were to give a critique on the character design itself, that's what I would focus on, making her character traits more obvious with some kind of special trait in her outfit (like Snake's bandana...or Megaman's helmet design)

now, the whole issue of the suit's practicality is irrelevant, obviously this is a visual medium and there will always be a level of stylization Ryona has just chosen to set that bar pretty high, I dont see a reason to challenge it.
---------------------
about the sprite...the attacks make me feel like the motion blur is being underplayed, you're using it as an overlaid effect on the drawn out sword, it should try to represent a diferent pose than the one where you can clearly see her sword drawn out. you could make the motion blur look like it's reached further than the sword (like Ninja gaiden and most capcom attack motion blurs), or make it look like it happens before the actual sword is drawn out
« Last Edit: January 12, 2007, 12:09:14 am by Conceit »

Offline 9_6

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Re: [WIP] Gameboy-style

Reply #55 on: January 06, 2007, 03:39:46 am
What's wrong?
From what I've read noone called your art horrible because there was some nudity involved, only impractical and historicaly wrong and this was the 'hardest stuff' I've read in this topic.
I can only repeat that you've done a beautiful job your work is far away from being horrible.

I'm not gonna repeat that the running/jogging animation needs tweaking but would linke to point out that the explosion needs a few more frames.

The smoke dissolves way too fast and it looks like part of it moves downwards which shouldn't be.
I'm also not a fan of that black-white flashing circle at the beginning but I guess that's just a matter of style.
Does scaling an image blur it?
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Offline Ryona

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Re: [WIP] Gameboy-style

Reply #56 on: January 06, 2007, 04:11:58 am
what are you talking about Ryona? this isnt the only thing going on, I went to make sensible crits on your sprite and they were ignored because YOU were too focused on the whole sexuality issue.

I did not intentionally ignore you. I read Tenshi's post and during the time I was responding to it, you made your post. I certainly did read your post afterwards and I'm taking your advice to heart, I can assure you that.

Anyway, I like your idea about making a new warrior class for her, and I honestly hadn't thought of that, so thank you for the idea.

As for the assumption that I'm trying to make the debate of the art direction of the character the main topic here, I am certainly NOT trying to do that. If anything I'm hoping that people would give it a rest. Yes, I do understand that some issues are still taboo to some folks here, but I didn't post my stuff just so people can go "Oh, you can't do that. That's wrong" (yes, I know. An over-exageration).
And it's not just what I've heard in this thread, but also what I've heard in the Pixelation mIRC chatroom. So it's really starting to get to me.

I don't think you understand how rather frustrated I've become, Conceit.



Anyway...

As for all the helpful suggestions to improve my sprites, I'll certainly get on them. I think I'll add an additional two or four frames to the run/jog animation to make it smoother (even though I was tyring to keep the frame count low in this game).

As for the explosion, I want it to be fast. Something like - 'Hit the enemy. A quick BOOM. Move on to the next enemy.' I don't want it to be left smoldering in the air.
And as for the stuff that's moving down, that's just some debris falling.

And I'll try to tweak the sword flash/motion blur.


Oh, and thank you for the support, The B.O.B.
And thank you for the compliment on my artwork, 9_6.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2007, 04:22:15 am by Ryona »

Offline Hishnak

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Re: [WIP] Gameboy-style

Reply #57 on: January 06, 2007, 04:24:00 am
"Also, sex is a form of art. Believe it or not but museums here have held exhibitions on the art of sex and sexuality."

Oh come on...I'm sorry but that is complete B.S.

Okay now that I have completely destroyed this topic I'll just be quite :P

Offline Meta|Fox

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Re: [WIP] Gameboy-style

Reply #58 on: January 06, 2007, 06:24:10 am
The energy orb look out of place there. make it look more... energysh, and less like a bubble.

Agh! i didnt notice the argument around me! *takes cover*
« Last Edit: January 06, 2007, 06:26:23 am by Meta|Fox »

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Offline sharprm

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Re: [WIP] Gameboy-style

Reply #59 on: January 06, 2007, 09:03:54 am
I really like the enemy's slash animation. I have to agree that the explosion seems lacking. Even if you want a quick explosion, couldn't you have more frames played at a faster rate? Looking forward to seeing what kind of 'boss' you will make for your game.
Modern artists are told that they must create something totally original-or risk being called "derivative".They've been indoctrinated with the concept that bad=good.The effect is always the same: Meaningless primitivism
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