AuthorTopic: [WIP] Arm Anatomy  (Read 9298 times)

Offline Franky G

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[WIP] Arm Anatomy

on: November 12, 2006, 10:52:21 am
Hello

This quite an old thread now. I felt best to update the original post since it has moved slightly off its original purpose.

This is a character that i've been working on for some time now. The original post was to concentrate specifically on the anatomy of the arms but since the original update on the arms, i've realised how bad my anatomy is and have tried an entire update. I am still very focused on the arms though as i still have huge difficulty in this area.



C+C appreciated as always

Thanks guys. I'll be updating this soon.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2008, 11:08:56 am by Franky G »

Offline VictorR

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Re: [WIP] Arm Anatomy

Reply #1 on: November 12, 2006, 03:46:49 pm
I'll do an edit.  :)

Edit:

I did one of many posibilities for the arm. The shadings really good all you need is to clean up the lines. I screwed up on his skin and made it look like silly puddy.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2006, 04:15:35 pm by VictorR »

Offline Franky G

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Re: [WIP] Arm Anatomy

Reply #2 on: November 13, 2006, 09:44:16 am
Thanks for the edit Victor and for your advice. I think I've cleaned the lines up as much as possible for now. I also added some definition to his shoulder like in your edit.


Old vs Update

not to criticise, but i think the use of bright highlighting needs to be used sparingly. I tried for some time to add highlights to his lower arm and bicep but found it doesn't really work. I've stuck with a highlight on the shoulder for now. I might also consider removing other highlighting from the other parts of this guy later.

I think I'm happy with the forearm now. While I'm still uncertain it is correct, i think it'll do for the moment. If i don't receive any further crits soon, i think I'll consider the arm finished and move on to other parts.

Offline VictorR

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Re: [WIP] Arm Anatomy

Reply #3 on: November 13, 2006, 12:56:39 pm
looks a whole lot better..its turniing out nicely

Offline big brother

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Re: [WIP] Arm Anatomy

Reply #4 on: November 13, 2006, 03:37:32 pm
Just out of curiosity, any reason you chose a cartoon sprite (with a smaller resolution) to use as an anatomical reference?

Not to jump on you, I've just found that artistic improvement (especially for anatomy) can be furthered more by life studies rather than imitating someone else's interpretation. It's a slippery slope to stylistic inbreeding (for examples, see most anime).

Offline ep

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Re: [WIP] Arm Anatomy

Reply #5 on: November 13, 2006, 06:35:19 pm
I like the new version of it but I feel that it lost something from the original, where it looked more like a creature with the extended forearms and sharp elbow, I thought those characteristics worked with it, in particular with the beast-like look it has.

Offline Franky G

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Re: [WIP] Arm Anatomy

Reply #6 on: November 14, 2006, 02:11:39 am
VictorR : Thanks.. i was dreadding this but I'm having fun now.  :y:

Big Brother : As for why i chose a cartoon reference as supposed to a real reference. Its a good point but i should explain, E. Honda's arm isn't my only reference on this. When it comes to pixel art, i guess I'm only interested in pixeling cartoon "capcom" style characters. While i have used numerous real references, I've only used them to make critical comparisons to the pixel art I'm referencing and the art I'm making. I also think that capcom characters are more simple in comparison: they only emphasize necessary areas to make character as appealing as possible which I think is an important skill which real art cant help as much with.

feel free to argue. I've never tried to work from a real reference!

ep : I think i know what you mean and I've spent some time thinking about this. I think the solution to this is easier than it seems. If i can clarify what you mean, the character is very toned and his arm is a little more, chunky than what he was previously equipped with which doesn't fit, i think the style of the arm is now totally different from the rest of this guy. As I'm going to be changing most of this guy to match this style, I'm hoping that this problem will go away. Let me know if I've missed the point.

Thanks for your comments guys.

Offline Helm

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Re: [WIP] Arm Anatomy

Reply #7 on: November 14, 2006, 02:24:38 am
If all you want to do is capcom-style sprites, then yes, keep looking at them. Though it's not my place to comment as I do, I think that's a bit of a waste of talent and effort, though. But they're yours to do as you like.

Offline Ryumaru

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Re: [WIP] Arm Anatomy

Reply #8 on: November 14, 2006, 02:46:08 am
either way theres worse refrences than that little arm hes got there.

Offline baccaman21

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Re: [WIP] Arm Anatomy

Reply #9 on: November 14, 2006, 11:27:35 am
http://www.reybustos.com/03ra/Quantae_mx.htm
http://www.artnatomia.net/uk/index.html (this one's a bit OT - but handy none the less)

Excellent online references for anatomy.
Buy the book - The Animator's Survival Kit by Richard Williams

www.burnzombieburn.com

Offline Shifty McSly

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Re: [WIP] Arm Anatomy

Reply #10 on: November 14, 2006, 03:50:33 pm
I think capcom's sprites are way too figurative to use as any sort of a reference, the lines they use are (I hope) decided by the angle and shape of the arm, I think you need a good understanding of the 3d form to understand what the lines actually represent. I agree with ep, the original was far more interesting, now it's a deformed beast with normal human arms. Just my opinion.

Offline Skull

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Re: [WIP] Arm Anatomy

Reply #11 on: November 14, 2006, 06:12:41 pm
The dit has worked wonders.. it's got a superb shape and form now. The definition is great, perhaps just some shade along the right of the 'middle' upper arm buldge.. if that makes any sense..

Offline Franky G

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Re: [WIP] Arm Anatomy

Reply #12 on: November 15, 2006, 11:56:34 am
I think its clear i should be using real references. I guess i should observe the "style" rather than the anatomy in my ref. Otherwise i'll still be forced to guess what i'm doing when i try in future to create other poses.

Anyway, i hired an illustrated book on anatomy which should help. So far i'm finding very useful but its very detailed. quite a lot to take in. I Think i'll leave this piece until i've studied the book and are confident in what i'm doing.

Anatomy For The Artist: 142 full page plates
Jeno Barcsay
Octopus Books London 1973

Offline Franky G

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Re: [WIP] Arm Anatomy

Reply #13 on: December 15, 2007, 12:46:25 pm
I've been meaning to finish this one for some time but i've been so busy lately. To be honest i've only spent a short amount of time really studying anatomy since i left this but i think things are improving none the less. I realised that the entire thing was really flawed from the start so i made some pretty big changes. I jumped back into this one at the start of the week and have been working pretty casually since. This is my progress at the moment.

right now, connecting the shoulders to the body is a bit of a challenge. I'm dropping it for the moment and will start on getting the basic outline for the legs soon as i've only focussed on the upper body.



C&C welcome.

Offline Arne

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Re: [WIP] Arm Anatomy

Reply #14 on: December 15, 2007, 03:38:34 pm
Not sure how correct this is, but it'll have to suffice for explaining...



The biceps (green) goes in under the delta/shoulder muscle. I think there's a smaller muscle on the lower outside of the biceps (blue), and it meets with the muscle which bends funnily into the lower arm (pink), and the blob of that one covers a few muscles which come out from under it. The biceps is 2 muscles btw, and and is sometimes show because they're a bit displaced. On the back of the leg there's a biceps too (biceps femoris) and it kinda splits up and goes on each side of the back of the knee, making the hole. Maybe you can feel its two tendons on the back of the knee and lower upper leg.

The shoulder muscle is the same as the 'breast' muscle. It kind of shoots radially and turning into it. I marked this with a darker magenta string. Often you get a little hole there (intersection of biceps, delta and breast) of you do the hulking 'hulk' pose.

The upper leg has a few easy muscles to remember. The 'drop' muscle on the inside, and under is a diagonal string muscle. Inside towards the croth theres a lot of little strings, and I don't know the exact details of those, other than the ones which are relevant to stretching panty cloth of course... The hip bone might show (yellow).

The neck would be a bit strange. The Trapezius (back of neck, I think we call it the 'cloak' muscle) would probably wrap behind the back and up to the back of the head. The 'nod' muscle would somehow merge with it.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2007, 03:43:26 pm by Arne »

Offline Franky G

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Re: [WIP] Arm Anatomy

Reply #15 on: December 16, 2007, 02:16:03 am
Wow thanks for the excellent response Arne. Very informative and the edit is superb. This will keep me busy for a while. Much appreciated!  :y:

Offline Franky G

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Re: [WIP] Arm Anatomy

Reply #16 on: February 18, 2008, 08:44:14 am
UUgh.. i've lost count on how many hours i've spent on this one.. Here's an update..

Offline Franky G

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Re: [WIP] Arm Anatomy

Reply #17 on: February 24, 2008, 11:25:29 am
An update is in order. I'm jumping the gun here and have started colouring. I just think some depth at the moment will help. I've added the left fist now which is a little different from what Arne done in his edit (although i love his). I'm pretty happy and to be honest it was easier than i thought. I've purposely removed the right arm because i've got no idea really where to start for that angle. I'll work on this next.

As for the shading, i need to say that i've originally used a pallate from a piece done by St0ven which i've modified slightly. Please note this is temporary. I'm not sure what peoples opinions are on here about this but i hope its not a problem..

Anyway, C+C on appreciated.

Offline VictorR

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Re: [WIP] Arm Anatomy

Reply #18 on: February 24, 2008, 08:32:57 pm
Wow is all I can say. Huge improvement and I love the underwater sea creature look to it. (I know it's not what its meant to be)
The colors are smooth looking and it's looking really good so far. Next is the feet  :blind:

EDIT:

I did a little expiriment with the right arm (his right) and tried to give it a casting look to it, I suck with hands though so I just threw a circle on there. I got a bit of refrence from the pic but I don't think it helped much. Just a little somethin somethin though
« Last Edit: February 24, 2008, 09:05:31 pm by VictorR »