AuthorTopic: [WIP] Isometric Amusement Park  (Read 15606 times)

Offline dreamisle

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[WIP] Isometric Amusement Park

on: November 11, 2006, 03:37:05 am
This is a WIP that I'm doing for a friend. It's going to be palced in my isometric city at http://thegriddle.net/isocity/ in the Pirate Cove region. I plan on adding a lot more including some sort of shipwreck possibly with a ride in it, and a midway and a few other 'flat rides'.



C+C appreciated, but I'm hesitant to make really big changes like moving the waterslide or the go-kart track.

TO DO:
  • Finish rides and stalls and such, including beach and observation tower and/or boardwalk and add more horses to the carousel.
  • Add the shipwreck to the top corner.
  • Tweak rides to look better.
  • Detail everything - break up monotony in the grassy areas and road.
  • Tweak palette to be wild, but still fit with the theme of that section of the city.
  • Create animated gifs to lay over the image for various rides.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2006, 01:20:24 am by dreamisle »

Offline sharprm

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Re: [WIP] Isometric Amusement Park

Reply #1 on: November 11, 2006, 10:47:52 pm
Shadow from the fence on the bottom beach would be good as its hard to tell whether its a beach or a cliff.  Like the way you
shaded the merrigoround's top.
Modern artists are told that they must create something totally original-or risk being called "derivative".They've been indoctrinated with the concept that bad=good.The effect is always the same: Meaningless primitivism
http://www.artrenewal.org/articles/Philosophy/phi

Offline dreamisle

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Re: [WIP] Isometric Amusement Park

Reply #2 on: November 12, 2006, 12:02:30 am
Shadow from the fence on the bottom beach would be good as its hard to tell whether its a beach or a cliff.  Like the way you
shaded the merrigoround's top.
The bottom area is a cobblestone road. I'll work on shadows after I finish the coaster.

Offline SN33K

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Re: [WIP] Isometric Amusement Park

Reply #3 on: November 12, 2006, 12:06:31 am
Im new here, but the beach and water on the North and West side of the picture look to be on a higher level than the Amusement park, which if real would result in mass flooding  :P

Offline dreamisle

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Re: [WIP] Isometric Amusement Park

Reply #4 on: November 12, 2006, 02:44:16 am
Im new here, but the beach and water on the North and West side of the picture look to be on a higher level than the Amusement park, which if real would result in mass flooding  :P
No it wouldn't. The view is isometric you moron. Learn about graphic styles before you try to critique them.

Offline Pawige

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Re: [WIP] Isometric Amusement Park

Reply #5 on: November 12, 2006, 03:14:16 am
Umm, I don't know about you, Dreamisle, but I do see some sort of odd effect that messes up the perspective of the image and makes the water look higher. It's certainly never okay to call anyone a moron for sharing their opinion. If you refine that part of the image a bit I can see if I can figure out why it looks high.

Offline Indigo

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Re: [WIP] Isometric Amusement Park

Reply #6 on: November 12, 2006, 03:24:53 am
Dreamisle we do not advocate name-calling or any other form of blatant disrespect to the members here.  What Sn33k had to say was very valid and I agree with both him and Pawige.  This is your first official warning.  Learn about respect before judging another member

Offline Conzeit

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Re: [WIP] Isometric Amusement Park

Reply #7 on: November 12, 2006, 03:48:13 am
I think it might actually be lack of isometric perspective that makes it look higher, as if it were hanging over the bay in an incident angle. also the  the dark stripe on the edge of the sand (I know it's wetness) make it look like the water is casting a shadow, and light stripe on the edge of the water(I know it's foam) only enhances the effect.

I'd draw the erratic water border in a separate image and then translate it to ISO (sorry, dont know how...I'm sure there was a tutorial about it once, try Zoggles' site) and try to give more detail to the foam and wetness so they dont appear to be stripes.

Offline dreamisle

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Re: [WIP] Isometric Amusement Park

Reply #8 on: November 12, 2006, 05:09:18 am
I'm sorry I called him a name, but I don't see any way whatsoever that the water looks higher than the rest of the image. I seriously have no idea why you all think it looks that way and it seems crazy. Someone please explain it to me.

And why is it that I only recieved 1 serious reply to my post until I insulted someone? I had tons of views but no critiques. I thought this community was supposed to be more helpful than that. I guess it's changed a lot since I was here a few years ago. I mean, it's ridiculous. Even the chatroom sucks because everyone wants to talk about MMORPGs and 3D models and sculpting. You guys have no idea how frustrating it is.

Offline Helm

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Re: [WIP] Isometric Amusement Park

Reply #9 on: November 12, 2006, 05:12:50 am
I think you need to relax.

Offline Pawige

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Re: [WIP] Isometric Amusement Park

Reply #10 on: November 12, 2006, 05:32:48 am
I've found that the very best way to make sure you get replies is to continue to work on it even after you post it. Don't sit back and expect everyone to find all the little flaws. Take a 10 minute breather, flip the image horizontally, and look for problems yourself, then spend a few more hours on it and post an update. It's an acceptable way to bump it and it improves your ability to look at your own work objectively.

Edit: Err, scratch that, don't bump it if it's only been a few hours, that came out wrong, just edit the update into the body and the subject line. I can't speak for anyone else, but I know for me if I can see the original image and the latest revision it really helps me come up with comments. Also, I don't find it at all illogical to occasionally bump your own thread if it's dropping off the page and you still need more help. There's quite a bit of activity here and posts just sometimes get skimmed over and forgotten.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2006, 06:08:06 am by Pawige »

Offline dreamisle

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Re: [WIP] Isometric Amusement Park

Reply #11 on: November 12, 2006, 05:40:44 am
I've found that the very best way to make sure you get replies is to continue to work on it even after you post it. Don't sit back and expect everyone to find all the little flaws. Take a 10 minute breather, flip the image horizontally, and look for problems yourself, then spend a few more hours on it and post an update. It's an acceptable way to bump it and it improves your ability to look at your own work objectively.
I'd been working on it for over a week and had been constantly updating even after the original post. I shouldn't have to bump my own post to make other people see it. Thats ridiculously illogical.

As for the 'water that is going to flood the park', here's a link to a placement test of the park:

http://thegriddle.net/isocity/jig_park.html

The turquoise is going to be transparent and I anticipate changing the entrance to the parking lot a bit, finishing the roller coaster, adding scenary and stalls for games or food, finishing the carousel, and adding a shipwreck in the top left corner and beachgoers on the top right.

Offline sharprm

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Re: [WIP] Isometric Amusement Park

Reply #12 on: November 12, 2006, 06:25:50 am
I have to admit i thought there was something a bit funny looking about the top beach but i thought it wouldn't be a problem once
you finished the whole thing. You might not see it becuase you've been wokring on it too long. Some things are only obvious when
you see it fresh. It might be correct isometric, but maybe becuase the water color is different or maybe the way you've placed the
dots on the grass that suggests a slope.
Modern artists are told that they must create something totally original-or risk being called "derivative".They've been indoctrinated with the concept that bad=good.The effect is always the same: Meaningless primitivism
http://www.artrenewal.org/articles/Philosophy/phi

Offline robalan

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Re: [WIP] Isometric Amusement Park

Reply #13 on: November 12, 2006, 09:45:54 am
The reason the water seems higer is because the dark sand looks like a shadow rather than wet sand.  I'm not sure what can be done to fix this; maybe making the water slightly transparent (brown tint?) would help.  Good luck!
Always remember: a preposition is not something you should end a sentence with.

Offline SN33K

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Re: [WIP] Isometric Amusement Park

Reply #14 on: November 12, 2006, 12:56:41 pm
The reason the water seems higer is because the dark sand looks like a shadow rather than wet sand.  I'm not sure what can be done to fix this; maybe making the water slightly transparent (brown tint?) would help.  Good luck!

 I think that sounds about right, it should fix the problem.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2006, 12:58:41 pm by SN33K »

Offline Feron

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Re: [WIP] Isometric Amusement Park

Reply #15 on: November 12, 2006, 01:11:07 pm
Quote
Learn about graphic styles before you try to critique them.

The sign on the hut is scaled and color reduced.  Learn about pixelart before you try to do some.

Offline dreamisle

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Re: [WIP] Isometric Amusement Park

Reply #16 on: November 12, 2006, 04:44:52 pm
The sign on the hut is scaled and color reduced.  Learn about pixelart before you try to do some.
1) I was commissioned to do the piece and had to use his logo.
2) That's a complete lie. It was scaled, but I haven't color reduced it... yet.

Offline Feron

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Re: [WIP] Isometric Amusement Park

Reply #17 on: November 12, 2006, 06:23:09 pm
1) I was commissioned to do the piece and had to use his logo.
2) That's a complete lie. It was scaled, but I haven't color reduced it... yet.

1) Im not sure how many colors are in this piece but theres definitely over 256.  Regardless of whether its a commision or not, you won't benefit from scaling/skewing.  It looks dirty and doing it by hand would look better plus it would give you more self satisfaction to not use cheap tools.

2) LOL complete lie... from what i just read 50% was untrue, thus rendering the use of the word "complete" pointless.  Like i said before, you won't learn anything from color reduction.

Offline dreamisle

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Re: [WIP] Isometric Amusement Park

Reply #18 on: November 12, 2006, 07:21:29 pm
1) Im not sure how many colors are in this piece but theres definitely over 256.  Regardless of whether its a commision or not, you won't benefit from scaling/skewing.  It looks dirty and doing it by hand would look better plus it would give you more self satisfaction to not use cheap tools.

2) LOL complete lie... from what i just read 50% was untrue, thus rendering the use of the word "complete" pointless.  Like i said before, you won't learn anything from color reduction.

1) Okay okay, I'll draw it by hand at the end and show Jay both versions and let him choose.

2) I think we can agree on this agreement: You say it's 50% untrue, I say that it's completely 50% true, so the average of completely and 50% is roughly 75%. Now... what were we talking about again?

Offline Indigo

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Re: [WIP] Isometric Amusement Park

Reply #19 on: November 12, 2006, 07:51:26 pm
...what the fetchin' piece of poo-nugget cheese...

Reading that just made me a little dumber.  I wont even try to critique your Math endeavors.

Feron and dreamisle, there is no need for bickering.  About the stretched and colour reduced logo, often times when it comes to contract work, you do what you need to for the job to get done.  Although It may not be perfect pixel etiquette, I can understand the decision.  He's got plenty of true pixel art to look at as well, so i'm not complaining.

Offline snake

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Re: [WIP] Isometric Amusement Park

Reply #20 on: November 12, 2006, 09:15:13 pm
I'm just wondering, is there a reason this looks so much like Rollercoaster Tycoon? I see a number of similarities. I have to know before any crits can be made.

Offline dreamisle

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Re: [WIP] Isometric Amusement Park

Reply #21 on: November 12, 2006, 09:21:22 pm
I'm just wondering, is there a reason this looks so much like Rollercoaster Tycoon? I see a number of similarities. I have to know before any crits can be made.
Because RCT has rides. This, however, is way too small to be ripped from RCT. Not to mention a lot of the stuff here looks completely different from RCT. I feel somewhat insulted that you implied I would rip graphics from a commercial game when I am doing a commissioned piece of art.

Offline snake

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Re: [WIP] Isometric Amusement Park

Reply #22 on: November 12, 2006, 09:36:46 pm
I never implied that you ripped. Rollercoaster Tycoon is the only isometric themepark game there is and there are bound to be some similarities when you're making a piece such as this. Fact is, the rollercoaster, go-cart, waterslide and merry-go-round look a lot like they did in the game. I am however perfectly able to see that it's not a rip.

If you were going for the Rollercoaster Tycoon look, or used the rides as reference, it would be a lot easier asking if you did rather than assuming you did or didn't in the critique. If I had accused you, I would have been very clear on that point. Please try to be a little easier on the trigger next time.

Offline dreamisle

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Re: [WIP] Isometric Amusement Park

Reply #23 on: November 12, 2006, 10:12:47 pm
I never implied that you ripped. Rollercoaster Tycoon is the only isometric themepark game there is and there are bound to be some similarities when you're making a piece such as this. Fact is, the rollercoaster, go-cart, waterslide and merry-go-round look a lot like they did in the game. I am however perfectly able to see that it's not a rip.

If you were going for the Rollercoaster Tycoon look, or used the rides as reference, it would be a lot easier asking if you did rather than assuming you did or didn't in the critique. If I had accused you, I would have been very clear on that point. Please try to be a little easier on the trigger next time.

Quote from: snake
I have to know before any crits can be made.

If you had to know before any crits could be made, that sounds like you were implying it, like "I want to know if this is a rip or if it's all your own rides before I criticize it because if it's a rip then there's no work of yours to write a crit about." Do you get what I mean?

Offline Helm

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Re: [WIP] Isometric Amusement Park

Reply #24 on: November 12, 2006, 10:22:16 pm
I understand your need to defend yourself to the extent that you felt you were accused of ripping, but then when snake clarified that this was not what he did it would be best to drop it. Generally, you need to take it easy and let this place do its thing, there's no sense antagonizing everyone that comes to your thread and generally arguing everything to the ground. Please seriously consider what I am suggesting.

Offline havocplague

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Re: [WIP] Isometric Amusement Park

Reply #25 on: November 12, 2006, 10:53:07 pm
If you are doing this for a client, you should really be prepared to have to answer a few questions, probably along the lines of the ones asked here. Clients, who usually lack the talent or time to do this stuff themselves often tend to say things like "I like this one, make it twice as big by tomorrow" or "I don't like red, let's make this thing here green." And when that happens, you need to be able to defend your choice of color,style,etc, and you still need to make them happy. You also need to understand that you need to be able to explain to them why you have chosen to do something, in a way that they can a) understand and b) feel comfortable with.

So, everytime someone asks you something, you should take a minute, put down a well written, simple answer. And keep it polite.

So, this really isn't c&c on your actual piece(sorry about that) but rather a pointer to something that is going to be very helpful if you plan to make it as an artist or designer.

Offline dreamisle

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Re: [WIP] Isometric Amusement Park

Reply #26 on: November 12, 2006, 11:40:31 pm
If you are doing this for a client, you should really be prepared to have to answer a few questions, probably along the lines of the ones asked here. Clients, who usually lack the talent or time to do this stuff themselves often tend to say things like "I like this one, make it twice as big by tomorrow" or "I don't like red, let's make this thing here green." And when that happens, you need to be able to defend your choice of color,style,etc, and you still need to make them happy. You also need to understand that you need to be able to explain to them why you have chosen to do something, in a way that they can a) understand and b) feel comfortable with.

So, everytime someone asks you something, you should take a minute, put down a well written, simple answer. And keep it polite.

So, this really isn't c&c on your actual piece(sorry about that) but rather a pointer to something that is going to be very helpful if you plan to make it as an artist or designer.
I totally understand. The problem is, my client is pleased with it so far, but the only suggestions he's given me so far are things like 'can you add this?' or 'can you make this a bit bigger?' and I'd like a bit more technical c+c on the piece.

Offline Feron

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Re: [WIP] Isometric Amusement Park

Reply #27 on: November 12, 2006, 11:45:51 pm
add more texture and contrast.  I think the palette could do with a lot of work.  You've got the basic isometric shapes you need, they just need texturing, and with some good palette unification it will be pretty good.  A lot of the colors you have at the moment don't compliment each other and it's not very aesthetically pleasing.  Make it more vibrant and try and break the normal "green for grass, brown for brick" style shading.

Offline dreamisle

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Re: [WIP] Isometric Amusement Park

Reply #28 on: November 13, 2006, 12:41:45 am
Palette unification? Explain. And what others would you suggest for grass? Most of the grass I've seen is green. I am confused by what you say... :/

Offline Feron

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Re: [WIP] Isometric Amusement Park

Reply #29 on: November 13, 2006, 01:00:25 am
instead of just using green with a few random dots - try and texture it.  Add worn parts, longer parts, muddy parts, litter.  "green for grass, brown for brick" is general expression meaning don't just use solid colours to represent different objects (eg. blue for water, yellow for sand).  use the actual pixels to texturise.

for more on palettes read up on these:

http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=922.0

http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=2378.0

http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=2144.0

the latter won't directly show you information about palettes - but its interesting to see how other artists pick thir colors.

Offline dreamisle

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Re: [WIP] Isometric Amusement Park

Reply #30 on: November 13, 2006, 01:39:24 am
Add worn parts, longer parts, muddy parts, litter.

CASUAL GAMEPLAY FUN LAND AND BEACH DOES NOT HAVE LITTER. LITTERERS WILL BE SHOT AND RAPED AND ESCORTED OUT OF THE PARK BY SECURITY. AND THEN SHOT AGAIN.

But I guess I could add some muddy patches here and there. And trashcans.

Offline Terley

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Re: [WIP] Isometric Amusement Park

Reply #31 on: November 13, 2006, 02:03:07 am
The one vital thing you are missing is a lightsource, otherwise this is kinda cute atm  :P lil fair ground aww.. Don't ask me about palettes, im still figuring that out myself.

Don't add anything too noticable, like a muddy patch. things naturally erode, get used. tyre skid marks on the track? add some foliage, flowers, few rocks or grassy bits on the beach, a poster or two in the enterance. I went to a waterpark on holiday last week, there were sitting areas, sunbeds and walls eitherside of the paths and yes were there's water and grass there will be muddy patches, but don't make them too noticable (im pituring you drawing a brown blob somewhere). just a discolouring of the grass around, with breaks of dirt.

er well, goodluck with this, your still working on this so these are just suggestions.
I've not got anything interesting to type here..

Offline Huge

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Re: [WIP] Isometric Amusement Park

Reply #32 on: November 13, 2006, 05:13:18 am
I think the reason for the back water looking like it is higher that the rest is because of the vertical line on the left.
This makes the "grass" look like a "cliff", to which the roller-coaster is bolted.  For example, if you were to replace
the grass at the back with a vertical line texture, it would *really* look like a cliff.
Conversely, is you were to add more of a diagonal-hash pattern to the grass (or some nice diagonal line, like kinking in the fence) you could break the optical illusion and make the grass look like a horizontal plain.

Offline snake

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Re: [WIP] Isometric Amusement Park

Reply #33 on: November 13, 2006, 07:50:24 pm
If you had to know before any crits could be made, that sounds like you were implying it, like "I want to know if this is a rip or if it's all your own rides before I criticize it because if it's a rip then there's no work of yours to write a crit about." Do you get what I mean?

Just a misunderstanding. It happens.

Since you're not aiming at someting in particular, I'll just give some suggestions. At the moment, the shadows are barely visible. Increasing the contrast could make it more interesting. This especially goes for the waterslide and the merry-go-round. The roads could have borders to make them a little less flat and the rollercoaster could have clearer rails (gray for example) for the carts. The grass is pretty dull as it is, but fixing the shadows and adding the stalls, maybe some trash cans or benches would take attention away from it. It's a little too soon to suggest an alternative grass style as most of the buildings are WIPs. If you really want to make sure people don't think the water's "above" the park, you could make a slope from the edge of the grass to the sand.

I'll add more if I think of any. Looking forward to the next update  :y: