AuthorTopic: On the Merits of Editing.  (Read 4278 times)

Offline Macks

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On the Merits of Editing.

on: October 11, 2006, 06:52:19 pm
A bit of an argument is raging in another forum, on the Merits of Editing Sprites.
The debate is on whether or not editing others sprites should be acceptable, regardless of legality(the sprites in question are of Public Domain).
One opinion is that editing is a waste of time and cheapens pixel art.
The other is that it is a viable means of learning a style, and a good method for up and coming pixel artists.
Being amongst the best pixel artists out there, I wanted to know all of your opinions.

Offline Helm

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Re: On the Merits of Editing.

Reply #1 on: October 11, 2006, 07:50:37 pm
My opinion is that you can learn a lot by looking at pro sprites and emulating their style as best you can. This isn't editing. This is using reference. I believe this encourages close study and repetition, but also leaves space for one to grow out of what he has learnt from his studies.

As a prominent editor on this forum, for reasons of critique, I believe direct on-sprite editing of other people's work only has merit when you're trying to make the sprite better in some way. As most pro work is accomplished in itself, I don't see how many people can presume to edit such sprites with the same mentality. What they are doing instead, is indulging a masturbatory fantasy in which they've 'made' the pro sprite in the first place and are now 'customizing' it with their cool and neat personal accessories and omg wouldn't it be cool if Ken had a mohawk? They lie to themselves that what they're doing is on that level, simply by association. And they find forums where others do this, so they can get acceptance and 'respect' for being 'good editors'.

Edit: it is also my experience that such dishonest mentality is self-perpetuating, and most people that do this do not grow out of it, especially when they remain in their sheltered forums where ass-patting for editing is the norm. They are not really interested in putting in the work to become as good an artist as they are capable of, they are interested in the social benefits of being 'respected' and will become only as good as they have to in their odd-skillset, to be better than everybody else in their little clique. I believe instead in not trying to outrun your friends, but trying to outrun the bear.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2006, 07:55:08 pm by Helm »

Offline ndchristie

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Re: On the Merits of Editing.

Reply #2 on: October 13, 2006, 01:15:37 pm
I would normally speak to my own opinions, but helm pretty much listed all of them :P so ill just second his

I will however say that the modscene (basically, edits actually used for something) does contribute to fun and unique options for popular games.  Counterstrike is a great mod, which is effectively an "edit" of halflife, though it is an extensive one.  I have a few RoN mods dowloaded and one that i put together myself because the RoN system makes for a great RTS regarless of unit appearence and stats and even some functions.  still though, its all embellishment, not a standalone system, and should not be treated as such.
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Offline .TakaM

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Re: On the Merits of Editing.

Reply #3 on: October 13, 2006, 01:25:15 pm
i enjoy sprite edits like patches for various roms- minish cap link in link to the past etc, and the odd fangame. infact thats how I got into spriting, not all bad though, most the editing I did was making new animations people needed out of old sprites they were using i learnt a fair bit from that and after a while I just didnt feel very proud editing sprites, so I started doing custom work.

thats how it should go really, editing sprites is good for beginners, but thats all really.
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Offline AdamTierney

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Re: On the Merits of Editing.

Reply #4 on: October 14, 2006, 05:41:02 pm
There's nothing wrong with editing for fun. But editing and then posting your edits on a pixel creation forum like this for quick praise is silly.

- Adam

Offline Peppermint Pig

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Re: On the Merits of Editing.

Reply #5 on: October 14, 2006, 08:47:45 pm
I agree with Sals.

While editing sprites for personal enjoyment might appear shallow to more genuine pixelers, not everybody working from templates has an inflated ego or holds nefarious designs on the works you have created, so it's wrong to broadbrush everybody in the edit community. There will always be hazards in putting your work out under the public eye, but there is no single solution to this problem.

There appears to be a good deal of vitriol coming from people against editing art. I've often noticed that people will argue against such activities by citing 'copyright law', often in a manner that creates a foreboding atmosphere. Sometimes people who are not aware of the forum temperament are ambushed with hostile responses, and others become so overly cautious of infringing that they can inhibit their own growth potential.

The spirit of the matter ought to be respecting the intent of the author, especially if you ever hope to see your works defended by others. The best way to gain respect is not through fear or force, but by setting an example of how you'd like to be treated. Once people are bitten by the issue, they tend to become more sympathetic, and sometimes they will discover a workable solution.

In the incident where Squidi's works were appropriated against his will, he made a valid point by noting the disparity of power between the small man and the big company in terms of having their intellectual property protected. However, it appears to me that reliance on this model of 'rights protection' as a means to defend or argue for real protection of your work is ass-backwards. It is partly because of these impersonal systems that defer to assumed government protection that digital media is increasingly being pirated and authors do not get proper credit/tribute. And since these systems rely moreso on the investment of capital, poor artists will continue to lose out. There are solutions that do not necessarily require money.

Quote
The debate is on whether or not editing others sprites should be acceptable, regardless of legality(the sprites in question are of Public Domain).
One opinion is that editing is a waste of time and cheapens pixel art.
The other is that it is a viable means of learning a style, and a good method for up and coming pixel artists.
People can and will edit other sprites regardless of legality. It happens constantly.

If you only do edits, that's the limitation you've set on yourself. To those who find a need to be the best possible pixel artist, or at least the best you can be, then it would make sense to not restrict yourself, practice, and try new things.

It is certainly a viable means of learning style, but mostly technique.

My final answer would be this: You should have the freedom to respect or not respect anybody you want, and accept the consequences of such, good or bad. If you don't like what someone is doing, feel free to use any means necessary, as long as it's not forceful or coersive. Think proportionally. Peer pressure is effective when the issue is confined to a single forum. Boycott campaigns can have an effect when the injustice is more pronnounced or far-reaching.

Offline Lick

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Re: On the Merits of Editing.

Reply #6 on: October 14, 2006, 10:18:18 pm
I can and will be short about this issue -- on THIS forum: mention your resources when posting edited images. Flamewar gone!  :y:
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Offline Conzeit

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Re: On the Merits of Editing.

Reply #7 on: October 16, 2006, 05:53:34 pm
Edit: it is also my experience that such dishonest mentality is self-perpetuating, and most people that do this do not grow out of it, especially when they remain in their sheltered forums where ass-patting for editing is the norm. They are not really interested in putting in the work to become as good an artist as they are capable of, they are interested in the social benefits of being 'respected' and will become only as good as they have to in their odd-skillset, to be better than everybody else in their little clique. I believe instead in not trying to outrun your friends, but trying to outrun the bear.

I agree wholeheartedly.
I go around spriting forums seeking skilled people like this to give them a chance of getting out of it....but you know, you get the usual answer of "internet is serious business" and "it's just for fun dude", when these people lead uninteresting lifes and this would be a god way for them to overcome themselves. once in a while they get enough courage to leave their comfort zone and leave which is incredibly satisfying for me, I guess I just have a thing for changing people's preconceptions.

while I do see this a lot in sprite forums, I think this goes on a lot in pixelation as well.

EDIT
SNIP moved this part of the post to this topic SNIP

I think any issues of editing that come up could be solved simply by advertising the editing-related activities (hell even making C&C editing some kinda "hidden treasure" type activity) advertised specifically for editors that come from another forum, I think it's best to educate and integrate this "other" spriting comunity than to shun them.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2006, 11:43:53 pm by Conceit »