AuthorTopic: An angel  (Read 8169 times)

Offline defrobo

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An angel

on: December 21, 2016, 04:14:40 am
Hi guys! This is my first post. I've been doing pixel art for a couple of months, and while I have passed the basic stage of being able to put stylus to tablet, I am now making works that I'm sure are filled with rookie mistakes. But I'd love to learn how to improve!

This piece took me quite a while. I can't think of anything else to improve it, but I get the feeling it's a bit ..meh.. Help me out, what should I do?

Offline MysteryMeat

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Re: An angel

Reply #1 on: December 21, 2016, 05:00:19 am
Well, first thing I'm noticing is that the wings look way too segmented.
Here, a guide on how wings are structured:


You could fix what you have now somewhat though by simply making the top edge more solid to give it a more structured look.

On non-wing related stuff, her hair kinda billows out too much and gives her head an inflated appearance, i'm not sure if that's what you were going for but notable nonetheless.
The hands are also too small, and contrast pretty hard with the otherwise-realistic proportions. Don't cut things off at the wrist, and try to add those fingers and thumbs.
Finally, the feet need a lot of work. If you need a good guide, try to think of them primarily as basic shapes to simplify the process of drawing them.
Like so, this is a bit of a rough example but the method I use is I start with a ball then add two triangles and a square for the toes. The back triangle I then round out a bit, and I have a side foot.
The front is mostly the same too, I just add more squares and eliminate that second triangle!

This is a great method for simplified art styles, breaking things down into basic shapes like this has made a lot of things easier for me and it's a good habit to keep around for complicated bodyparts like feet or those horrible mutant flesh-spiders on our wrists we call hands.

The effort you put in really does show, though, so kudos for that! Keep going!
PSA: use imgur
http://pixelation.org/index.php?topic=19838.0 also go suggest on my quest, cmon
MAJOR BORK TALLY: |

Offline defrobo

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Re: An angel

Reply #2 on: December 21, 2016, 12:50:36 pm
@MysteryMeat, thanks so much for taking the time to review! That wing reference is fantastic. So I basically had mine round the wrong way  :D

Yes, the hair was big and boofy, I subconsciously draw all females with beehive hairdos for some bizarre reason. Hands and feet are obviously very weak points, so thanks for pointing that out too. It's so obvious the hands are so small now you said it.

I haven't finished yet but wanted to post a WIP of what I could get done tonight. Note I haven't gotten to the feet yet, but I intend to. I think the wings look a bit stubby but the structure is a lot better.

I'll post again soon when I get some more time. Thanks again for your critique, you would not believe how useful it is  ;D

Offline Seiseki

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Re: An angel

Reply #3 on: December 21, 2016, 02:28:33 pm
It looks quite stiff and the way you shade the breasts make them look flat.
I think you're limiting yourself too much with the eyes and mouth, you can get a somewhat real looking face even at this resolution.
And you should go back to doing huge hair, try drawing using bigger fluid motions, it might be hard if you're using a mouse though.
But things like hair, wings and cloth really need lots of successive brush strokes to work out the shape.
The wings look very mechanically drawn with all the straight and diagonal lines.
The palette could use a bit more contrast to bring out depth, especially the hair.
The arm on the right is kinda spaghetti like and on the left, the upper arm seems to the same thickness as the fore arm.

And here is also an edit.

Offline defrobo

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Re: An angel

Reply #4 on: December 21, 2016, 03:29:23 pm
Wow. Thanks Seiseki, that is kind of ...awesome. Your edit blows me away, it's better than anything I'd even thought up for this piece! I do use a little wacom tablet, so I'll have to practice my motion lines.

It's going to take me a while to decompress the details here (and to finish MysteryMeat's suggestions as well), so I'll report back when I have something to show.

Offline Ozego

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Re: An angel

Reply #5 on: December 21, 2016, 08:34:07 pm
Heya, your pose is a little wonky. Think about the 3 dimensional constructions that make the foundation of the mannekin.


Offline lachrymose

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Re: An angel

Reply #6 on: December 22, 2016, 02:43:12 am
Quick anatomy rework:



Push your line of action more, focus on creating a more dynamic pose. She is in the air let her pose show it.

Do something with her hands, just about anything works except hiding them, balling them up or as you did pancaking them.

Also, arms aren't spaghetti and elbows are a thing that exists. If you have issues with anatomy take a picture of yourself in the mirror, if you can't manage the pose without liquefying your joints than try something else. 

Showing the face straight on is boring and difficult to shade without looking flat. 3/4th view is God.

Get rid of your outline, if you have difficulty separating the sprite from the background without it, than you have an issue with colors.

Always exaggerate bust size. Boobs are double God.

Offline MysteryMeat

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Re: An angel

Reply #7 on: December 22, 2016, 02:49:51 am
Quick anatomy rework:
Always exaggerate bust size. Boobs are double God.

Don't actually do this. People can, will, and frequently take great pleasure in mocking people who do this for no reason.
PSA: use imgur
http://pixelation.org/index.php?topic=19838.0 also go suggest on my quest, cmon
MAJOR BORK TALLY: |

Offline Ozego

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Re: An angel

Reply #8 on: December 22, 2016, 05:01:56 am
Quick anatomy rework:
Always exaggerate bust size. Boobs are double God.

Don't actually do this. People can, will, and frequently take great pleasure in mocking people who do this for no reason.

In my experience it is more about how the boobies are drawn than the size of it. The problem is guys who tend to draw big inflated balloons without weight rather than the actual fatty boobie  tissue. I am at work atm but I will share an excellent tutorial on the subject when the office empties out.

Offline Seiseki

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Re: An angel

Reply #9 on: December 22, 2016, 06:24:09 am
I'm pretty sure a lot of the criticism is because of the reason guys draw huge boobs and not the lack of a reason.. ::)

Offline Ozego

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Re: An angel

Reply #10 on: December 22, 2016, 06:09:38 pm
Regardless of the reasons here is a nice tutorial on how to give them weight:
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/14073817562484999/

Offline PixelPiledriver

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Re: An angel

Reply #11 on: December 23, 2016, 06:25:43 am
@MysteryMeat
Please stop propagating fear of public mockery.
And knowing that it is, we seek what it is... ~ Aristotle, Posterior Analytics, Chapter 1

Offline MysteryMeat

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Re: An angel

Reply #12 on: December 23, 2016, 07:01:05 am
@pixel, yeah fair enough! Wasn't my intent to do that but reading myself back to me I've yet again found myself realizing I mangled my point trying to be funny/sassy

Point I was going for wasn't so much to be worried that people will make fun of you for it, it's more that shoving them into every design isn't the best idea and can often take away from the end result when not properly thought out.
I was specifically thinking of blogs like eschergirls, which highlights the kinda goofiness that comes of it, but the blog also has kind of a mocking tone and hasn't really been all on-point in recent times. Not a huge fan of art mockery blogs, but some of them make good criticisms in between the rudeness.
PSA: use imgur
http://pixelation.org/index.php?topic=19838.0 also go suggest on my quest, cmon
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Offline Ozego

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Re: An angel

Reply #13 on: December 23, 2016, 12:35:42 pm
Meh. It's just the times. We live in a era of prudes. Everything is PG. Sex scenes has been replaced by CG sky beams, and we care more about scientists shirt fashion than their achievements in their field. In 50 years it will probably be the opposite and we'll all be as filthy as our predecessors were in the 70s.
Just do what you love to do, and if people mock you remember that their petty observations will be gone tomorrow but what you create will stick around.  :y:

Offline eishiya

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Re: An angel

Reply #14 on: December 23, 2016, 02:23:19 pm
I think the fact that people are a bit prudish is actually why many artists add big boobs to their art - it feels risque to them or their target audience. Otherwise, I think we'd see people drawing whatever breasts make the work actually better.

Add big boobs if you want, just make sure it doesn't come at the cost of the composition, the character design, or the message of the piece. And please make them actually look like soft boobs instead of hard rocks.

Offline lachrymose

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Re: An angel

Reply #15 on: December 23, 2016, 02:53:15 pm
OP has already been scared away.

Offline defrobo

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Re: An angel

Reply #16 on: December 23, 2016, 04:07:07 pm
I'm still here, unfortunately I haven't had a chance to do more updates yet. Hopefully will get some time tomorrow!

Oh, and I don't have a strong opinion on big or small boobies anyway, so you guys just continue on as you please  ;D

Offline BeckaMan

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Re: An angel

Reply #17 on: December 23, 2016, 08:32:30 pm
Small boobs, big boobs. Whatever. There are all sorts of boobs out there. As long as the art is solid just do what you feel like your piece needs!

Offline Seiseki

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Re: An angel

Reply #18 on: December 23, 2016, 09:16:42 pm
Let me just say something to put this back on track..

Defrobo, take your time.
I saw that you wrote in the first post that you use a wacom, I totally missed that, which is why I mentioned fluid motions and using a mouse. If you draw pixel by pixel it makes it harder to do quick iterations and changes.
Pixel by pixel is necessary in certain places like the eyes and face though, and also when cleaning up lines.

But I think that in general you should focus less on line work and more on volume, for example her chest and hair doesn't have volume, they have outlines which imply the opposite, that it's a flat shape. Think of a ball with volume vs a circular plate which has none.

Offline BeckaMan

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Re: An angel

Reply #19 on: December 23, 2016, 09:29:57 pm
Let me just say something to put this back on track..

Defrobo, take your time.
I saw that you wrote in the first post that you use a wacom, I totally missed that, which is why I mentioned fluid motions and using a mouse. If you draw pixel by pixel it makes it harder to do quick iterations and changes.
Pixel by pixel is necessary in certain places like the eyes and face though, and also when cleaning up lines.

Sorry, kind of off-topic, but I hope it's okay I ask about this here.
I'm a beginner so I don't think investing in a wacom is something to consider just yet. But if I'm interpreting what you're saying correctly a tablet can help in doing fluid motions? So there is an advantage in using a tablet vs mouse when advancing to an intermediate stage and higher pixel count images? I'm just doing 32x32 now so a mouse should suffice but I'm just thinking ahead here. A wacom is a good investment after the beginner stage?

Offline MysteryMeat

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Re: An angel

Reply #20 on: December 23, 2016, 10:07:12 pm
Speaking as someone who uses both, a tablet is good for making fluid and presentable curves and the mouse is good for touchups and refinement. I utilize both as part of my workflow, though usually I'm too lazy to set up my tablet and wind up drawing whole things with my mouse, which is a bit more time consuming (and often aggravating when it comes to those curves!)
PSA: use imgur
http://pixelation.org/index.php?topic=19838.0 also go suggest on my quest, cmon
MAJOR BORK TALLY: |

Offline defrobo

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Re: An angel

Reply #21 on: December 24, 2016, 02:49:57 am
Thanks to all who've commented so far. I've reworked the pose considerably, trying to make it more dynamic and emphasize volume. Hands and feet are still a problem, but I think I'll just need lots of practice to get them right.



I'm going to work on adding back in the face and then clean up the lines some more.

Offline lachrymose

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Re: An angel

Reply #22 on: December 24, 2016, 03:07:32 am

Offline MysteryMeat

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Re: An angel

Reply #23 on: December 24, 2016, 03:33:33 am
Looking good, thin out the leading edge of the shin some though! They actually curve inwards very slightly towards the ankle!
PSA: use imgur
http://pixelation.org/index.php?topic=19838.0 also go suggest on my quest, cmon
MAJOR BORK TALLY: |

Offline defrobo

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Re: An angel

Reply #24 on: December 24, 2016, 05:56:27 am
ok, here's the latest. I wasn't happy with the left hand, and redrew it 3 times. It still looked crap, so I.. hid it with a sword  :D

Also, when I redrew the face the character changed a lot. I'm happier with it now but a little dissapointed I couldn't keep it looking like the same person. Hopefully with more experience I'll get that.

Thoughts? Thanks again for everyone's help, I've learned more doing these edits than I have in the last month combined.

Offline Ozego

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Re: An angel

Reply #25 on: December 24, 2016, 07:18:07 am
Huge improvements defrobo. Really nice work!

Offline lachrymose

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Re: An angel

Reply #26 on: December 24, 2016, 08:21:59 pm
I'm happier with it now but a little disappointing I couldn't keep it looking like the same person. Hopefully with more experience I'll get that.

It looks like a different person because of how much more improved it is. To make it "look" like the person in the first iteration you would have to take backward steps from the progress you've made.

Don't do that, move forward.

And nice progress.  :y:

Offline dpixel

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Re: An angel

Reply #27 on: December 25, 2016, 03:25:58 am
I agree with everyone.  Fantastic improvement!

Just a few pixels can change a face a lot.  In my edit I lowered the eyes by one pixel and added a stronger shadow to the face,  and hair, added some contrast and a hand/arm edit.  There are many ways to make pixels as you can see in all the edits including yours.  Keep up the great work.