AuthorTopic: [C+C] Need Help please.  (Read 4982 times)

Offline Fieldren

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[C+C] Need Help please.

on: November 22, 2016, 03:49:28 am
So, on this next chapter of "1 am drawings " i present the newest family member:

The wendigoclops.

I hate this guy, like... for real.

My intial thought process wanted to make a mob that resembles desperation. unable to see, but very capable of hearing.

I fucked up, i know. I finished with a bunch of concepts mixed into one freaky ass dude.I don't like the result, so i was looking for help because i've been trying to make this dude for like...3 months now, and every time i fail miserably haha.

This was my initial thought:


and after a while i finished with this christmas tree:



I mean, it doesn't change that much, but for sure, it has a much more different vibe.Anyway, i'm not pleased.
Can you help me, Masters of the pixel? ???
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Offline Fieldren

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Re: [C+C] Need Help please.

Reply #1 on: November 22, 2016, 04:07:27 am
Obviously, it's not finished.But i'm sure that you get the point  :)
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Offline MysteryMeat

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Re: [C+C] Need Help please.

Reply #2 on: November 22, 2016, 04:35:36 am
I'd say take the antlers and eyes back off. The original was rolling a sort of mish-mash vibe between the faceless hand-eye monster from Pan's Labyrinth and the smooth desiccation look from Geiger's classic Alien designwork.
Try to channel that more, instead of adding facial features go for emphasis on what is missing instead, and maybe even put a bit more rot and saggy skin on him to sell the corpsey feel he seems to be rolling right now a bit more!
PSA: use imgur
http://pixelation.org/index.php?topic=19838.0 also go suggest on my quest, cmon
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Offline Fieldren

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Re: [C+C] Need Help please.

Reply #3 on: November 22, 2016, 01:07:24 pm
I have to say, that you are very intuitive Meat... Those 2 concepts were exactly what i was thinking when i first started drawing this guy.The Eyeless monster from pan's lab+Alien (Actually, i just got this pose from one of their concept art)
And maybe i'm being too obvious about it...

Going for the rotten skin today, trying to get closer to something more, original.

Muchas gracias seńor MisteriosDeLasCarnes!
« Last Edit: November 22, 2016, 03:36:00 pm by Fieldren »
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Offline BadMoodTaylor

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Re: [C+C] Need Help please.

Reply #4 on: November 22, 2016, 01:23:40 pm
I agree in that, as the eyes and antlers distract me from how creepy he looks.  As in they don't seem to fit as well and they attract the eyes.

The first one is a bit difficult to make out at the smallest size, especially the chin over the chest.
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Offline Runensucher

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Re: [C+C] Need Help please.

Reply #5 on: November 22, 2016, 02:54:12 pm
What comes to my mind is "the smell of despair".
Maybe you can give him a nose. That will help it to hunt its prey.

Offline Fieldren

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Re: [C+C] Need Help please.

Reply #6 on: November 22, 2016, 03:47:49 pm
I was wondering and getting concepts together, for example:
-Blind monster (No eyes)
-Large mouth, almost like piranhas.
-Large pinzers (Is that right? Pinzers?) or scissor-styled hands.
-Like a lot the "nose" idea, but i think it has to be something very subtle in this case. (Runnen)
-I'm definitely taking out the eyes and the antlers,and in terms of the size of this guy, let me show you my main character, and tell me your opinion,BadMoodBro.

 



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Offline MysteryMeat

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Re: [C+C] Need Help please.

Reply #7 on: November 22, 2016, 03:51:36 pm
On the nose, I'd give him nostril slits with some wrinkling around them to suggest development without compromising the form.
Don't add too much though, it's easy to go overboard with monster design, ideally you want to keep it down to two or three "major" design bulletpoints so it doesn't come off as tryhard and shatter immersion.
Good example of that is, again, Geiger's alien: It's vaguely phallic, vaguely human, and yet very inhuman. Those three factors came together to create the personality and design of the animalistic bloodthirsty Alien. Imagine if they'd given the alien scythe-arms, or a scorpion bobbins on their tail, or drenched it in blood, it would have been way too much and shattered that "vaguely human" bulletpoint which I'd argue made the design so uncanny! It's a bit of a hard balancing act sometimes, but it always pays to take a careful step to make sure things work without ruining the design's cohesion.

In comparison to the human dude, the monster is REALLY TALL, but crouched down to below him. You can certainly play with that a bit, making them tall and gangly is a great way to make the enemy designs imposing.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2016, 03:56:59 pm by MysteryMeat »
PSA: use imgur
http://pixelation.org/index.php?topic=19838.0 also go suggest on my quest, cmon
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Offline Fieldren

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Re: [C+C] Need Help please.

Reply #8 on: November 22, 2016, 03:59:10 pm
Oh yes,i was looking at some old pieces of art and discovered that tall things=fear.That's a very intereseting topic.
And quoting what you say Meat, can you give me a visual reference? I mean, i'm sorry i don't know what "nostril slits" are, but i really want to know please,i'm getting fond of that rotten-look that you are suggesting Meat.

Aw yiss, what kind of enlightment are you up to ,Meat? Your clarification has a tremendous point...I am mixing a bunch of concepts, but none of them gets highlighted... I haven't thought about it.Yo da mvp,Meat. 
« Last Edit: November 22, 2016, 04:06:47 pm by Fieldren »
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Offline Runensucher

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Re: [C+C] Need Help please.

Reply #9 on: November 22, 2016, 04:35:09 pm
Nostril slits are, what snakes and lizzards have.
That's exactly what I had in mind.
I'm excited to see your results.

Offline Fieldren

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Re: [C+C] Need Help please.

Reply #10 on: November 22, 2016, 05:04:12 pm
Dude, you've been helping me so much, and i have learned so much from both of you(And obviously everyone posting in my threads, but mostly you two).

Take for granted that i will send you my first steps on my game, i'm sure that you'll like it.

Gonna take your advice guys, and as always, thank you.
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Offline MysteryMeat

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Re: [C+C] Need Help please.

Reply #11 on: November 22, 2016, 05:09:18 pm
Haha, hey man I just like monsters a bunch. You pick up a few things when you look at them and read about design philosophies a lot, after a point you can sorta just wing it!
And yeah, nose slits are like what snakes have. Think Voldemort, or noseless zombies in the case of this charming fellow!
PSA: use imgur
http://pixelation.org/index.php?topic=19838.0 also go suggest on my quest, cmon
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Offline Fieldren

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Re: [C+C] Need Help please.

Reply #12 on: November 22, 2016, 05:51:42 pm
All right, i get the point. So, you are saying that i need to turn my "Eye-antler kadabra" into an "Avada-snake-nose-kedabra", got it.
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Offline Fieldren

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Re: [C+C] Need Help please.

Reply #13 on: November 29, 2016, 04:05:10 am
[UPDATE]



Tried to give him "Nosil Strils" ... Incredibly difficult task, by the way. I can't get the proper angle for the holes to look properly like holes , insted of funny-asian eyes.Hard.

Fixed some colors here and there and thought about giving him 2 more arms, just because i want to mix something like a snake with a spider...man-thing.

Completely work in progress, but i needed to stop to ask for directions. Any advice , buddies? ???

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Offline MysteryMeat

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Re: [C+C] Need Help please.

Reply #14 on: November 29, 2016, 04:36:27 am
I like it! The clothes make him look more like A Dude though! If you were to clean him up he'd be a pretty excellent alien merc/assassin type, I think, but if that's not what you're after it might be wise to rag up those clothes more! Perhaps take some cues from the hollows in dark souls and make the top ripped up so bad it barely covered the shoulders?
PSA: use imgur
http://pixelation.org/index.php?topic=19838.0 also go suggest on my quest, cmon
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Offline Fieldren

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Re: [C+C] Need Help please.

Reply #15 on: November 29, 2016, 01:14:36 pm
i was thinking to put him some kind of forcejacket( That's how it spells? you know, the crazy people shirts, with their arms all tied up) Gonna tweek him to show you what's on my mind. Will post results later.
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Offline Fieldren

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Re: [C+C] Need Help please.

Reply #16 on: November 29, 2016, 03:23:06 pm
[Update]

Initial Sprite:


Removing eyes and antlers:


"Give me five"


Latest try:



Tried to put him a forcejacket.Can't still fit him in the right place,i'm not convinced about him...it feels like it lacks something.Changed claws for normal fingers (Since this is the first boss of my game).Gave him a more spidy look.Waiting for your critique.
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Offline MysteryMeat

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Re: [C+C] Need Help please.

Reply #17 on: November 29, 2016, 05:00:29 pm
Straightjackets tend to extend down a bit to hook under the grundle iirc!
PSA: use imgur
http://pixelation.org/index.php?topic=19838.0 also go suggest on my quest, cmon
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Offline Fieldren

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Re: [C+C] Need Help please.

Reply #18 on: November 29, 2016, 06:22:44 pm
Oh, you're right Meat.
I'm really having trouble with this one, i'm gonna try the dark soul's hollow idea now. Will post results in about 1 hour
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Offline BadMoodTaylor

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Re: [C+C] Need Help please.

Reply #19 on: November 30, 2016, 01:38:16 am
In the latest edit I feel like his back arms are "just there".  I would position them with more purpose (as in "I'm going to get you" purpose) because, to me, it looks like he is just hanging out now.  The second one looks creepiest at the moment due to the posture.

I like how you are trying different things each time—shirtless, leather, straight jacket—keep the creativity going!  Will this eventually be animated?
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Offline Fieldren

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Re: [C+C] Need Help please.

Reply #20 on: November 30, 2016, 03:22:59 am
Sup Taylor

Indeed, this needs to be animated because it's just a little piece of a project that i have.
Currently i'm seeking for inspiration and concepts that can be applied to this kind of characters, you know, monsters and stuff...

I'm really , really frustrated with this particular character, i have many ideas but none of them seems to fit for me...
Initially, this "Boss" needs to be, first of all, Blind. The strategy that you need to use with him is stealth, obviously...because if he finds you, he can just One-shot you. My first concept was Alien, after that i thought about the Lickers (Resident evil) but honestly, i just want to make something original, something different...and that's what makes me so frustrated, so i come here for help :(
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Offline MysteryMeat

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Re: [C+C] Need Help please.

Reply #21 on: November 30, 2016, 04:44:28 am
Best advice I ever got was to stop worrying too much over originality, since nothing is really "original" to start with. All creativity comes from somewhere, be it a subtle influence like a weird tree you saw once to something more overt, like my fixation on the grisly and deformed as a result of my fondness for silent hill, Alien, and Del Toro's effects work.
It ALL comes from somewhere, the trick is to start mixing in more and more things until it starts taking shape as it's own thing!

To use Alien as an example, Geiger took a lot of inspiration from a variety of sources. Sex, distorted human-ish parts, insect carapaces, even more "classic" sci-fi illustrators that preceded him. The man's distinct stylism came as a result of a variety of things he saw around him and before him, and he just worked on adding more until it took shape as something so uniquely his that he's now cited as one of the biggest influences in horror design.

Your thing is already moving away from that too! Just think about the things you like and start bolting bits of that on until it takes a more personal shape.
PSA: use imgur
http://pixelation.org/index.php?topic=19838.0 also go suggest on my quest, cmon
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Offline Fieldren

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Re: [C+C] Need Help please.

Reply #22 on: November 30, 2016, 02:15:19 pm
You are right, you know?

That's actually a pretty solid advice. I think that this is one of the most difficult pieces of my jigsaw, starting with the fact that i have been publishing him way more than any other sprite and changing him more than 5 times.
I really appreciate every word in this thread and if maybe i'm not applying every single tip or hint that you, great people have provided me but everytime that i read a new post, a new idea blooms over my head and this is the point where i really need that. You are right, i'm being too anxious about results, not letting things flow and forcing the pieces to fit.

I'm going to keep trying new styles with this guy, and keep posting here for feedback, now i'm thinking about Yoshimitsu from Tekken3 .As always, thank you Meat.
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Offline BadMoodTaylor

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Re: [C+C] Need Help please.

Reply #23 on: November 30, 2016, 04:43:58 pm
First of all, I definitely like this guy. When I first saw him I didn't like it—but then I thought "why don't I llike it?" and realized it was because it creeped me out a little. So would definitely use him in some fashion.

I see your struggle—trying to fit art into the defined gameplay, maybe trying to force it a bit. Maybe this isn't the character for this boss fight but can be used elsewhere? I don't have much experience but feel like building the gameplay around the characteristics of the art can work as well, seems like could flow easily and accentuate the characteristics.

But if you are going to use this enemy for this boss fight I think that second one (one in OP) can work pretty well. If it were me I would make him super fast. His slender build gives me that impression. The crouching posture almost gives off a ready to pounce vibe (maybe looks relaxed here but the squatting still gives that off—I usually don't squat when relaxing). If doing that I don't think adding more details helps the piece—I think minimal details would work well with quick animations. Would focus more on animating in a way to show the character—which would be super quick, creepy, and animal-like instinct of just wanting to tear you apart and eat you. Make the player feel like if he finds you then you are done for immediately.

Those are my thoughts on how I would handle it, but of course I'm not familiar with the rest of your game. The only thing I don't get is how would you do stealth if he can't see? This guy looks like he would operate on smell but don't know how you stealth your scent. Could operate on sound and hear you when you move—could have different surfaces or broken glass spattered about so could hear you only at certain spots. If wanted to do stealth by sight I would think something like a robot with a laser would fit better—shoots you on sight.
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Offline Fieldren

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Re: [C+C] Need Help please.

Reply #24 on: November 30, 2016, 05:52:12 pm
Sup taylor  :y: :y: (Numero 2)

I'm going to put some clarifications overall my current design of every sprite that i've made, i know that will help:

There is a "machine", used on vulnerable individuals that can materialize your deepest fears,feelings and thoughts as one big entity and make it real. Using brain-scanner technology , along with a very advanced kind of ""printer""(More details in game). The purpose of this machine is to exploit certain individuals that have a great internal conflict, for example:

A raped little girl always gonna fear her rapist, so in this way, the machine can materialize the inner monster that this little girl is so afraid of, but through the eyes of a 10 years old, or so.

In this case i need to take a large concept,and start working from it, so i start with a person with no signs of being that kind of monster.Rapist tends to be regular people, normal to the eyes of everyone and i finish with a normal guy with an inocent look, but when he has the oportunity you can see the real monster that the little girl knows.That's my approach, and that's what i try to accomplish.

In this particular case,the backstory of this monster :

A guy, that is overwelmed by rage, blind by pressure, unable to control it.The machine took that powerful part of him, and turned him into this beast. So now he lurks the place punishing any kind of interruption, almost like a perfectionist that doesn't want to be bothered.A complete workaholic.Of course stealth this time doesn't work with plain sight, but with smell, and noise. The player has to dismember the beast with the environment because you can't get close to him (You know, Death and stuff.).

I'm not aiming to a hack and slash, neither a beat em up, i just want to give every boss its own world, so it is the case for my fellow amigo, that has brought me so many issues lately.

Sorry for the long writting, needed to express myself. Big hugs Taylor bro.

[Update]

I think that one of the major flaws about this sprite was the pose. It was really hard to give him a more detailed look, so i tried a new pose of him standing (Just like MrMysteryMeat said, and in a way that i can make better use of the shadows and space.



Ps: It's obviously not finished, just fixed the pose and added some shadows, just for guiding.

[Update 2]

Gave him some shading,made a lot of mistakes, but taking these spots as a reference for future tweeks.

Before:


After:
« Last Edit: December 01, 2016, 03:38:08 pm by Fieldren »
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