C64 abuse [wip]

[Fool]

Hi, pixelers of the world. 
I'm  using c64 palette trying to imitate abalone look...Is this looks any like it?
Perhaps I might handle it badly, but I have feeling of lacking tones right now...
Kick me gently please...

[ndchristie]

normally, i would comment on the confusion created by having cool lights and warm shadows, but i think in this case it perfectly shows the 'magicalness' of the creature and the irridescent qualities of abalone.  if you can't tell, thats a strong compliment from me ^^

AS far as helping with tones, the c64 palette is a tricky one.

from what i can see, you seem to be missing a color.  i guestimated it, since i didnt have time to really caluculate exactly, so heres my rough edit:



i just mixed that rich warm (by comparisson) brown into the chest, and part of the wing.  if you like the look, you could do something like that either across the board or just where light hits directly (the latter might be better) or use it only where light does not hit directly(which might be best)

[Fool]

Yes, it'll help a lot, thanks, Adarias=)
I dont know why, but that brown in my palette is more saturated than yours and create almost red reflection...

[Helm]

Google Pepto Palette.

[ndchristie]

Google Pepto Palette.

the pepto (at least, the pepto thats on ptoings page) will be much too dark i think for this, since the lighter values are already pushed pretty far, he might end up looking too sharp?

maybe try ptoing's palette?

[Helm]

It's not about what fits this piece, it's about what is closer to what the actual computer is running.

[Fool]

Pepto in fact is a little dark and  kills desired shines... Oh well, I'll try to manage it as started and will probably pick another palette if I'll fail.=)

Adarias, I'm using Ptoing's palette. I think. =)

[ptoing]

[Fool]

Ptoing, yes, that's the one I sampled mine from. Unless photoshop had screwed it up while saving optimized image...
I feel like I need some basics knowledge on coloring.

One thing makes me worry - I sample colors and put it in swatches photoshop palette, but if I greyscale it  looks different, then shown on your picture...I'm not home and can't show it. Is that mean something is going wrong? May be there are numerical values I can check it out with?

[Helm]

Might want to stop using Photoshop for pixel art. Just a thought, don't kill me.

[Fool]

Might want to stop using Photoshop for pixel art. Just a thought, don't kill me.

I'm bad on killing as well.

I don't know what exactly wrong with me, but I don't like the way GraphicsGale handles layers and I'm trying  promotion, but still got a felling I'm visiting relatives and they do not happy about it.=)

[Helm]

It takes time to get used to it, but you'll eventually. Preservere!

[ptoing]

Yeh photoshop for some reason handles greyscale different than promotion. dunno why that is so, the colours should be same luma as said in pepto's article and promotion does that with the original pepto palette and i adjusted this one to have those lumapairs as well.

[Fool]

Thank you, guys. I'll try to make it work. One way or another.

[Fool]

All right, I'm stock.



Right here.
Is  there any way out of this?

[fil_razorback]

This is going to be a monthly awarded pixel art at Pixel Joint

[Eshaktaar]

That looks fantastic!

I'm not sure what bothers you about the lizard's bum. I like the slight clumsiness of the pose, as dragons are heavy creatures.

Something I noticed after looking a bit longer at the piece is the spot where the tail meets the rest of the body, which is obstructed by the wing: If the spikes are to continue up the dragon's back, there must be an extreme twist of the tail in that small obstructed area. Maybe the last four visible tail spikes need to be turned away from the viewer more.

[Fool]

fil_razorback, yeah, it's dragons shortage over there.

Eshaktaar, thanks for the point, I'll fix it when I'll get closer. It not a shapes are bothering me, i try to understand coloring, thats my favorite  pain in a butt. I feel I need dark low saturated tone for the deep shadow and i am out of it.

[Godslayer]

Inspiration +10

Stunning, Foo'

[rabidbaboy]

I'm very sorry that I ever doubted your pixelling skills back at PJ.
That is top stuff. Not sure how to solve the bottom shading though. I guess you could just come up with a darker shade?

[Xion]

That is top stuff. Not sure how to solve the bottom shading though. I guess you could just come up with a darker shade?

You can't really "come up with" a darker shade when using a fixed palette. In this pic, the only color darker than blue is straight black, yo.
Sorry, fool, I ain't got no suggestions on how to resolve your dilemma, but I praise your mad skills. Yo.

[Larwick]

Hmm, black was used under the wing, why not there aswel?

This is one of the nicest pieces of pixel art i've seen in a while (and not just because it's a dragon). Outstanding stuff, fool. 

[Fool]

Thank you, guys. It looks like I won't be able to make it work.
Black is the one that knock me down. I'll try to pick another palette when I get some free time. (dreaming =)

[Ai]

Yeh photoshop for some reason handles greyscale different than promotion. dunno why that is so, the colours should be same luma as said in pepto's article and promotion does that with the original pepto palette and i adjusted this one to have those lumapairs as well.

Converting a color to grey doesn't guarantee luma-correctness; the only thing that can guarantee that is having an appropriate color profile for the source image and an appropriate profile for your monitor.
Otherwise, it's just a semi-dumb weighting  - whether linear, as in the following formula:

#define GIMP_RGB_LUMINANCE_RED    (0.2126)
#define GIMP_RGB_LUMINANCE_GREEN  (0.7152)
#define GIMP_RGB_LUMINANCE_BLUE   (0.0722)

#define GIMP_RGB_LUMINANCE(r,g,b) ((r) * GIMP_RGB_LUMINANCE_RED   + \
                                   (g) * GIMP_RGB_LUMINANCE_GREEN + \
                                   (b) * GIMP_RGB_LUMINANCE_BLUE)

or nonlinear, as in L*a*b colorspace.
Gimp recognizes this, and provides several options for how to convert to greyscale. I would be surprised if photoshop didn't too.

Here are some different algorithyms lined up. For me, gimp's estimate of luminance matches the original colors more closely than the greys shown before.



Particularly, I think it estimates the greens,cyan, and dark pink markedly better.

'L of L*a*b' achieves the best idea of the colors relation to each other (one of L*a*b's strengths) and is probably the most useful for reference purposes.


Fool: I'd suggest just non-dithered black. alternatively, a non-standard dither pattern blue/brown lightening some areas to emphasize the darkness of the blue.

[ptoing]

In this case all this is bollocks. Pepto did calculate the colours with measuring tools from a c64 monitor and it does not get any closer than that, and it's fact that the c64 has 7 lumapairs plus black and white. When I converted the peptopalette in Promotion it did a perfect job and came up with lumapairs just like you would have on a real C64, same goes for my brighter palette which I just adjusted for brightess and a bit more saturation (which is possible on most C64 monitors as well as TV), The lumaparis tho wont change their relative ratio. So yeh, in this case the gimp stuff is fudged.

[/derail]

Very awesome looking dragon so far, I have no time for more input atm but will look into it some more later.

[Ai]

When I converted the peptopalette in Promotion it did a perfect job and came up with lumapairs just like you would have on a real C64

That's alright; if yer calculating via ratios, that explains the difference.
On a PC, for PC only pics such as this one, a metric that relates to PC display hardware is probably more useful.