[C+C, WIP] Tileset, need your opinion and input

[SlimEddie]

Heu guys so I was drawing this tileset for my game, and I am not sure how to approach the spots where grass collides with dirt? any ideas? any critique?

[heyy13]

Do you want a transition tile or are you trying to avoid it?

EDIT: Dumb question, you have transition tiles. Keep your brights from interacting directly with the soil and have either a clear grass edge where you can see how the grass goes into the ground or bring some of the dirt tones into the grass tiles further between the grass blades. Have the grass thin towards the soil.

[SlimEddie]

Do you want a transition tile or are you trying to avoid it?

EDIT: Dumb question, you have transition tiles. Keep your brights from interacting directly with the soil and have either a clear grass edge where you can see how the grass goes into the ground or bring some of the dirt tones into the grass tiles further between the grass blades. Have the grass thin towards the soil.

That makes sense, gonna try that

[SlimEddie]

Edit:


Seems better? huh? kinda?

[heyy13]

Much improved. If you don't mind me asking how many tiles are you using here? You have a lot of identifying factors in your tiles which make the tiling more obvious. Have you considered making a single very generic tile that tiles perfectly and then a few feature tiles to use to change the look up? Though i guess that depends on how large your areas of grass will be or if you care about people being able to identify repeating elements.

[SlimEddie]

Those are 32x32 tiles, so it is like six tiles in the center then three on top and bot, four corners and two on each side I also want to get rid of those obvious four leafed grass patches, working on it atm what should add more? Like some roks shrooms?

[MysteryMeat]

Small flowers, big rocks, assorted debris... Depends entirely on environment. Like, if this is a grassy area outside a factory there'd be rusty metal bits and old springs. If a grassy patch in a forest there'd be tufts of tall grass/flowers/mushrooms, twigs, and the occasional root.
More urban areas, things like cans and crisp wrappers.

[eishiya]

If you're going for more naturalistic transitions instead of a blocky, clearly-tiled look, you shouldn't use such straight transitions. Have bits going in and out, and don't be afraid to let things go all the way to the opposite edge sometimes. If you just have a straight line boundary in your transition tiles, that's only slightly better than not using transition tiles at all.

Also, try not to repeat parts of the other tiles in your transition tiles, as that only undoes the purpose of using multiple tiles. Take the time to make new grass/dirt bits that tile with the others. It's not that much more work, but it looks way better than repeating elements.

Here is a pixel-over where I only changed your side transition tiles, to give you an idea of what you can do:

It's two tiles total (plus horizontally flipped versions), same as yours.

If you're clever about the exact shapes and transitions between the tiles, you could even avoid having dedicated corner tiles and instead have "side" tiles that can be used for corners too. Making multipurpose tiles like that can make it easier to make varied, natural-looking maps with the same number of tiles, or even fewer tiles. Here is a somewhat extreme example using 16 8x8 tiles (zoomed in and with a grid on the example usage), where almost every transition tile can be used as a corner or side, and a few can even be used for both horizontal and vertical transitions or as "islands". With 32x32 and with transitions between more distinctly coloured terrains it'll be much harder to achieve that degree of flexibility, but you can still make something much more flexible than what you have now.

[SlimEddie]

So I have not tried adding ripples to the gras yet (on the borders where it colides with grass) as eishiya sugested, but I will do so once I figure out some other stuff. So here is where I stand now:
I have removed big flocks of grass to make it look a bit less like a pattern...
Also I swaped dirt colors - not sure about those, would love some critique on them

[Kairos]

I think it needs to be more spiky/asymmetric for it to look natural. This last edit looks too symmetrical/mirrored imo.

[SlimEddie]

 

I think it needs to be more spiky/asymmetric for it to look natural. This last edit looks too symmetrical/mirrored imo.

you mean grass itself or do you refear to the transition from grass to dirt?

[eishiya]

I prefer the cooler dirt colour myself, but I think it depends a lot on the feel you're going for. Colours are pretty easy to adjust later though, when you have more assets and can judge the colours in context.

I think removing the huge clumps of grass works! However, there is still noticeable repetition just because you're using identical grass clumps on different tiles, an issue I pointed out in my last post. You could probably "get away" with having some larger clumps on your tiles, as long as those clumps are only found on one tile each.
When making things like transition tiles, I recommend starting with solid colours instead of chunks of the other tiles, so that you're not tempted to use existing details and have to make new ones. It's not that hard to make the it all tile with each other with this level of detail.

[Kairos]

I think it needs to be more spiky/asymmetric for it to look natural. This last edit looks too symmetrical/mirrored imo.

you mean grass itself or do you refear to the transition from grass to dirt?

The transitions :] The grass texture itself looks neat.

[SlimEddie]

So guys, I have experimented a little bit more, took the recomendations about irregular transitions here is where I stand now
Spoiler

broke the links: here are replacements

I think on making some irregularities on upper borders and I went back to old dirt color - the colder one...

Also I have experimented a bit with flowers, what do you think? too desaturated? any ideas?

In addition regarding flowers, I took grass colors and just puled R- color slider towards red (Kept same saturation and value - I use gimp (I get to choose hue, value, saturation R, G, B).. Is that an ok thing to do considering color ramps? I have tried making my own color ramps but they still look like vomit

[SlimEddie]

Did even more ripple, maybe too much? to obvious? Ideas?
Spoiler

broke the links: here are replacements

[SlimEddie]

Threw together some random tiles for a test
Spoiler

broke the links: here are replacements

as far as I can see, I need a few better diagonal tiles huh? (corners, both outer and inner)

[Olothontor]

Yeah, it still doesn't feel very organic. Any time I need some tiles, I always look to Warcraft II for inspiration. The sheet there's not organized in a way that immediately makes sense, but try a quick mockup with them and you'll see how it works.

Beyond that, I'm not a huge fan of the dirt. Next to the grass, which is full of texture, the dirt just feels very bland. Try giving it a little texture--doesn't have to be a lot, just something subtle to help it get along with the grass. Also, I've found stones and such (see: the Warcraft tiles) help a lot. I think you were on the right track with the flowers, though I think that orange was a little too blaring. Try a yellow or a pink, maybe?

[eishiya]

I think once you also change the remaining transitions it'll look better. Right now most of your tiles still have a very straight transition. You're also under-utilizing your corners - arrange your tiles in more exotic, staggered shapes instead of rectangles and straight lines, which require more use of your corner tiles. Corner tiles are very important to being able to build interesting shapes, and you haven't given them better shapes yet.

Try making some mock-ups with just solid colours (green and brown) to play with the shapes, do you don't spend time pixelling detail in a tile that might not work well.

[SlimEddie]

So I tried making some dirt but I am hopeless on this one.. Just made one dirt tile and slaped it in the upper right just to see.. And I have deleted so many dirt tiles.. can some one put me on the right track?
Spoiler

broke the links: here are replacements

[eishiya]

I liked the flat look before. More detailed dirt than that is quite difficult xP Think about the type of dirt you're going for, look at ref, and then simplify from there. If you go into it without a clear idea of what you're depicting, you'll likely end up wasting a lot of time pixelling tiles that don't look like anything.

[Suleiman212]

Just my observations:

1. The dirt looks like really slick mud to me. Not sure if that's what you're going for, but it looks wet, I think it's a combination of the dark colors and very light highlights with the smooth texture and deep pits in it.

2. I think you should make the transition more... grassy. As in actually shape it to the blades of grass that are at the edge of the transition. As it stands now, it looks to me like the grass just fades into the dirt, or ends in splotches, sort of like the grass is just painted on. You should retain the definition of the grass up to the very edge. Remember, these are actual individual blades, not just a texture.

[SlimEddie]

So I decided to stay with the old dirt and just gonna make out some rocks for it today... as for now here is what I have got in terms of tiles:

Spoiler

broke the links: here are replacements

[SlimEddie]

So I started adding a tree, it is very much work in progress...
Here it is:
Lost my old tree:
Here have a latest one at least...

I feel like colors should be more cold?
Also before I go on any further waisting more time, I would really love to hear what you guys have got to say abou the green part of a tree... Feels bad for me atm, not sure how to approach it, tried making individual leaves then just round shapes now some bulks of green, any sugestions or ideas?

[eishiya]

The tree feels very much like a symbol for a tree rather than a tree. That could look good in a game world built entirely of such symbolic representations, but compared to the more rendered grass and dirt, it just looks like a green blob on a brown stick.

Try to get away from such simple symmetric shapes like cylinders (trunk) and speres (crown), and use more complex shapes with gaps, asymmetry, bits jutting out, etc. It's easiest to just doodle some shapes instead of trying to think hard about it. Do a bunch of sketches, something like this:

(These are more side-view-esque, RPG view would look a bit different, but you get the idea.)

[BadMoodTaylor]

Interesting thread—glad to see you are making progress.

For the tree I feel like your colors of green for the tree and grass clash.  Shouldn't you be using the same hues of green?

Also, with the decision on the dirt being more textured or solid I think that can go either way.  There's plenty of pixelart games with dirt and grass so I would look at some and find a style you want to be similar to.  The color of your 'dirt' does seem to be more like mud, color is more darker and reddish.

[MysteryMeat]

Some color changes, didn't change the forms any just made the greens more cooperative with the brows of the dirt to give it a less intense noise.
I wasn't paying attention to the tree much here, but hopefully this helps!

[SlimEddie]

Hey MysteryMeat, I almost like your color choice and I do agree that it needs to be shifted towards your colors.. I think I'll tinker with that later once I have a tree.. Because those two pices will have to match. As for now I took your sugetsions of drawing a few shapes and I seteled on one of them: here its.

Picture lost:
have  this:

I just want to hear your opinion on the shape of it and how should I approach leaves?
should I just make round thingies with texture or some other way of doing it?

[SlimEddie]

I know I might be a bit spammy here... but
could this kind of leaves be a thing? no?

RIP PICTURE LINK

[SlimEddie]

Maybe less tall tree? :?
RIP PICTURE LINK
I don't know but I have that feeling that on those tiles it is going to feel flat because it looks more like a tree for sidescroller than semi top down

[BadMoodTaylor]

I know I might be a bit spammy here... but
could this kind of leaves be a thing? no?

Doesn't look much like leaves—don't see any form

[SlimEddie]

Mockup number two(There is a lot of work needed for this - so this is just the base to work with):

RIP PICTURE LINK

[eishiya]

This last one looks nice! I'd have some larger gaps in the leaves instead of just single-pixel gaps, so they look more intentional.
Your original trunk was very noisy and has no sense of form or light so I'd maybe keep its shape but not keep the colouring on it. Try to focus on the form from the start, before you add any detail.

Also, try hue-shifting your tree palette some more. The dark colours look good, but why not make the lighter colours warmer? It'll look more interesting that way. You could reuse your grass colours for some of them, and as long as the textures are different enough and as long as different colours dominate different objects, they won't blend into each other too much.

[MysteryMeat]

Looking at that foliage on the previous tree i think you had something therr. Try working on some background foliage and try to tilt it more towards the camera!
The new ones good as well,  same crit though.

[SlimEddie]

RIP PICTURE LINK, GO FURTHER DOWN
Did some more of trunk work, I like this texture but it lacks something?!
Made some more holes in the tree, not sure how to do a tree leaf texture though (

[eishiya]

It lacks form. You're drawing details and ignoring the overall round form of it. You have some shadows near the edge of the trunk but they're too small to be noticeable. The crown also doesn't appear to cast a shadow on the tree.

You're doing a lot of dithering, or at least some sort of single-pixel texturing/shading, and at this size, it just doesn't read well. Try working with larger areas instead. Texture should be secondary to the form, but right now, texture seems like the main thing you care about.

[SlimEddie]

Understood
RIP PICTURE LINK, GO FURTHER DOWN
did this improve it? I still kind of like that texture with smaller pixels

[eishiya]

The shading around the edges makes it look pillow-shaded. Have you thought about your light source?

[SlimEddie]

Well I kind of feel like the light source (the sun) is lighting things from top to the bottom... Do you think taking some angle or doing it from the sides, would make it better?

[eishiya]

I think it would look better that way, yes. The way you're shading now, the sun is directly in front of the tree (behind the viewer), and slightly above. That doesn't happen very often, does it? Remember to think in 3D. Moreover, this flattens the tree, and even photographers avoid this light direction for that reason. The light coming a little from the side would make the trunk look more 3D. The sun is also usually brighter than that and casts sharper shadows, unless this is an overcast day.

[SlimEddie]

What do you think about this?
I kind of love this one, maybe requires shifting few pixels here and there but I am pretty satisfied with a trunk.
Thanks for your guidance!
Now I have a bigger problem on my hands, leaves...

[eishiya]

I think it's much more trunk-like now! The form is much clearer and it looks round, and you've even got a nice twist to it near the bottom. It would look even better with a bit more contrast between the three browns, and maybe some more hue-shifting.
It looks a bit noisy to me still, though. At this scale, the bark texture is essentially noise, so I think you might be better off not depicting it, and instead focusing on the larger shapes, like the twist of the trunk, burrs, etc. If you prefer the noisy look, then I think you should avoid having the single-pixel highlights right next to the darkest brown, as it reads more like sharply jutting features (thorns?) than just bark texture. That's a good technique for something like a cactus or a studded mace, but doesn't look quite right on this tree.
A visual illustration of what I mean by it looking like it juts out too much:

The bottom sketches represent the apparent size of the bump represented by the different levels of contrast.
The left and middle sketches represent a mild bump like what you'd expect to find in the texture of a tree trunk, the right/high-contrast bump doesn't feel as natural for a trunk texture.

Also, the roots don't seem to go into the ground, they appear to end abruptly. That is probably because of the shadow/outline on the tops. Try not having the very tips shaded, it should look more like they smoothly enter the ground.

[SlimEddie]

So I fixed those cactus like bumps, it does make sense to get rid of it but some times it just feels like a right thing in a few spots here and there..
Regarding noise, I quite like it and I think I'll stick to what pleases me on this metter> Its just that I feel like with no noise the ammount of texture on the tree would be too small for the ammount of texture on the grass... Any how..
Removed the shaded botoms of the roots which does make sense, as they feel like they go down into the earth, thogh looks a bit funky here and there..


ALSO ONE MORE THING (EDIT) : It really really feels that the tree is soo soo flat on that grass, should I make grass isometric? or maybe retexture it? make it a bit more high(if you know what I mean)?

Also NOTE: All the pictures in the post are gone (my bad) I cleaned up imgur and didn't think about them at that moment so yeah, unless there is some clever way to restore them - they are gone and I have only few to replace them (which I will do)

[eishiya]

I think once you pixel the foliage on the tree it'll look fine. However, you may want to lower the middle of the tree's crown. As-is, it doesn't look like we've viewing it from above like the grass, it's a side-view.