AuthorTopic: [WIP][CC] Chibi Commission (Read 16476 times)

Capta1n_Henry · **on:** June 04, 2016, 04:28:15 am

Ok so a guy asked me to make his oc for him here:

This is what I have so far:

EDIT: Final Piece:

Thanks for guiding me on this journey guys!

MysteryMeat · **Reply #1 on:** June 04, 2016, 04:59:54 am

Not to be too harsh, but you might want to start over from the top here.
Try to work from the reference more, get a feel for what the shapes you need and don't need are.
The body is mostly fine, but the head is way too big and feels overdetailed in comparison

Capta1n_Henry · **Reply #2 on:** June 04, 2016, 05:23:35 am

Quote from: MysteryMeat on June 04, 2016, 04:59:54 am

the head is way too big and feels overdetailed in comparison

Isn't the head supposed to be thing that stands out on a chibi?

Capta1n_Henry · **Reply #3 on:** June 04, 2016, 05:41:12 am

Ok, I probably should've asked for critique on the base itself before the sprite. Is there anything else wrong with the base besides the head?

Rosier · **Reply #4 on:** June 04, 2016, 05:52:41 am

I would stay away from perfect diagonal lines. The arms are too stiff and should have a different length and less rigid shapes.

Pizza Tom · **Reply #5 on:** June 04, 2016, 06:11:30 am

A bit sloppy of an edit, but you should get the idea. Some thoughts:

You had 32 colors, way too many for a sprite this size. At 14, my edit is still a bit much.
You're trying to pack too much into a small space. Details like the necklace, belts, or even checker pattern won't read well at this size.
Before you do any kind of detailing, make sure you can see the forms well. I.e. don't checker the skirt until you can tell it's a skirt.
The pose is a bit dull, especially with the symmetry. If she needs to be waving, why not exaggerate it a bit? Tell us something about her personality by the way she waves. (obviously not addressed in my edit)
The eyes and mouth are important to get right at this scale, since a single pixel difference can completely alter her expression. Take your time, and try to get the emotion across rather than the specific details (i.e. eyebrows, eyelashes).
You shouldn't pixel on a white background, it throws your perception of color off.

You may need to start from scratch, like MysteryMeat said. I'm not sure how much good a base like that will do you, maybe try a simple blockout of colors first, like this (example not mine, it's @puppiesandanime)

MysteryMeat · **Reply #6 on:** June 04, 2016, 06:44:30 am

What he said. That base is pretty bad, and I don't really think bases are a good idea for art in general.

there's personal-opinions-on-bases in that spoiler, if you'd rather pass on that don't click, but...

If it's a commission, you should really not use bases in the first place unless they're ones you make yourself. And even then, I find it a bit of a morally grey tactic.
They're paying for your art, not art that's made using someone else's prefab work or really prefabbed work in general.
Plus, you don't learn a whole lot if you stick to bases and premade poses, you have to be willing to fail before you can start to get good.

Capta1n_Henry · **Reply #7 on:** June 04, 2016, 03:02:30 pm

I drew a few poses and styles I found on Google. Which one do you think would be better for someone of my skill? Ignore the bottom right one. (Picture's huge so I'm not gonna put a direct link)

http://imgur.com/T1G5cvA

Capta1n_Henry · **Reply #8 on:** June 04, 2016, 11:15:07 pm

Trying to make another body

Capta1n_Henry · **Reply #9 on:** June 04, 2016, 11:51:06 pm

Ok I think I've decided on pose and stuff. Does the body look ok?

MysteryMeat · **Reply #10 on:** June 05, 2016, 12:20:04 am

Certainly a step forward! That's a pretty solid pose, I say go for it. Perhaps a shoulder should be showing on the left, but I'd actually forgo that to keep the simple shapes of it all.

Capta1n_Henry · **Reply #11 on:** June 05, 2016, 12:48:52 am

How many colors should I use?

MysteryMeat · **Reply #12 on:** June 05, 2016, 01:31:14 am

Don't worry too much on the number, just try to focus on keeping the colors flat like you'd see in a cartoon.
A rule of thumb I use is to use the same color you paint the inside with to do the outlines but ten shades darker, to provide visible contrast.

Capta1n_Henry · **Reply #13 on:** June 05, 2016, 03:34:25 am

Added some clothes. Just checking in before I start adding details

MysteryMeat · **Reply #14 on:** June 05, 2016, 04:36:50 am

Good start! I'd say you're going to want to try and make a more clear divide between blocks of colors and line everything, but otherwise I'd say just keep going!

Capta1n_Henry · **Reply #15 on:** June 05, 2016, 05:41:00 am

Ok, from now on when I do anything I'm gonna take it slow and ask for critique on just a few things at a time

I added the pattern on the skirt and now I'm starting the face.

MysteryMeat · **Reply #16 on:** June 05, 2016, 06:27:58 am

Needs outlines on the inside edges too, yellow and white tend to blend together so you gotta have a dark color dividing them if you don't intend for them to get lost in each other

Capta1n_Henry · **Reply #17 on:** June 05, 2016, 10:52:08 pm

Am I separating the colors right?

MysteryMeat · **Reply #18 on:** June 05, 2016, 11:17:35 pm

If you're gonna go for solid black lines, you gotta go ALL OUT

Capta1n_Henry · **Reply #19 on:** June 06, 2016, 01:27:48 am

I don't know if you were serious or not, but I like it in this style

MysteryMeat · **Reply #20 on:** June 06, 2016, 01:54:00 am

I was indeed being serious, that was what I meant by breaking up the colors.
You had a good instinct on trying to do it with a darker shade of yellow, but that's something that takes a lot more knowledge to really make work sometimes. It's best to start out with simple lines like that.

Capta1n_Henry · **Reply #21 on:** June 06, 2016, 02:19:32 am

So is the body more or less ok now? If so I'll start on the head (which is probably gonna be the biggest pain in the ass).

MysteryMeat · **Reply #22 on:** June 06, 2016, 02:41:14 am

More or less, yes! There's a lot of room for improvement on everything, really, but overfocusing on that will keep you from finishing projects. Once this is done though, dedicate some time to studying anatomy. And I mean STUDYING, look closely and absorb the shapes and musculature of the human form.

Capta1n_Henry · **Reply #23 on:** June 06, 2016, 03:25:02 am

Dear god, what have I created?!

I used this as a reference

Pizza Tom · **Reply #24 on:** June 06, 2016, 06:21:58 am

Glad to see you've kept at it.

Quote from: Capta1n_Henry on June 06, 2016, 03:25:02 am

I used this as a reference

Why use another person's work as reference? You already have the original character image to work off. You'll learn more from trying to create it your own way than by using someone else's methods.

Quote from: Capta1n_Henry on June 05, 2016, 12:48:52 am

How many colors should I use?

It's not about the exact amount of colors you use, but rather how many colors you really need. For example, your latest version had 4 yellows that were nearly identical. Reducing colors gives you less to keep track of, and helps keep all the elements feeling unified.

Here's my version of the eyes from the reference, though I encourage you to experiment with it on your own.
Again, texture like the checker on the skirt follows the form. Having a straight grid breaks the illusion that she's 3D. As for the texture on the fishnets, I don't know that you'll be able to do that at this scale.
You seemed to have a double outline on the arms- not sure if this was meant to be shading, but it doesn't add to the form at all. This sort of thing is usually called banding, and in most cases is better avoided.
Using outlines is fine if you like, but all black outlines on every area can separate things a bit too much visually. I recommend having colored outlines on the inside, but this is just a preference.

You've shown an interest in taking feedback and improving, which is great! You may need to work on your fundamentals first though, both with drawing in general and pixel art. I recommend this tutorial if you haven't seen it yet, it goes more in depth on some of what I've mentioned here.

MysteryMeat · **Reply #25 on:** June 06, 2016, 08:01:09 am

Quote from: Pizza Tom on June 06, 2016, 06:21:58 am

Why use another person's work as reference? You already have the original character image to work off. You'll learn more from trying to create it your own way than by using someone else's methods.

I'd argue that that depends entirely on how you learn. I got where I am mostly through that kind of stylistic experimentation, lotta roadblocks got knocked down that way.

Still, I am with everyone else. Gotta get back to basics and glean a firm understanding of it all. I reccomend looking into andrew loomis's works, "fun with a pencil" is a good primer

Capta1n_Henry · **Reply #26 on:** June 06, 2016, 06:55:35 pm

Now I regret taking 3D design instead of Drawing and Painting for my art class

Capta1n_Henry · **Reply #27 on:** June 06, 2016, 09:40:43 pm

Ugh... I feel like I copied your edit too much. I did learn a bit about shading and color placement though. It reminded me of how Pokemon sprites use black and then another color to separate shapes and objects

Capta1n_Henry · **Reply #28 on:** June 11, 2016, 03:26:48 am

Hey. Sorry for not posting in a like a week but I had school stuff up until today. Anyway, I started on the basic outline of the hair and I was wondering if I'm going in the right direction. Also if you want to post an edit don't make it detailed please.

EDIT: I'm an idiot

MysteryMeat · **Reply #29 on:** June 11, 2016, 04:45:27 am

no image attached!

Capta1n_Henry · **Reply #30 on:** June 11, 2016, 12:22:48 pm

Image is up. XP

SmashAdams · **Reply #31 on:** June 11, 2016, 04:38:33 pm

there wasn't enough room left for the top of the head so I increased the pixel height of the picture.

Capta1n_Henry · **Reply #32 on:** June 11, 2016, 09:02:36 pm

I had to take a lot from your edit because I've never done hair before. I tried making the the point in the middle bigger but it somehow feels off to me.

Capta1n_Henry · **Reply #33 on:** June 11, 2016, 11:23:20 pm

Working on the mouth now. Had to move the right eye (our right) a pixel to the left because it looked weird.

drain. · **Reply #34 on:** June 12, 2016, 01:07:43 am

Quote from: Capta1n_Henry on June 11, 2016, 11:23:20 pm

Working on the mouth now. Had to move the right eye (our right) a pixel to the left because it looked weird.

You should add more distinction to your colours. As right now, the hair reads to me as one single color, and the outline of the mouth is not visible, more contrast would easily remedy this. The form of the character seems to be okay now, colors seem to be your current issue. You could the same colours for the eyes and the belly-shirt, as they are both green.

edit: also, I don't know if anyone has addressed this, but were you paid for this? A commission is something you were paid to do.

Capta1n_Henry · **Reply #35 on:** June 12, 2016, 01:54:41 am

No, I'm doing this for free. I don't deserve to get paid for the garbage I produce right now. I took this commission because I'm bored and nothing else.

Capta1n_Henry · **Reply #36 on:** June 12, 2016, 02:05:14 am

I tried my best to fixed the problems you mentioned. Those lips bother me though.

MysteryMeat · **Reply #37 on:** June 12, 2016, 02:47:42 am

that's a request then, commissions explicitly imply a transaction. Looking good though, keep at it

Capta1n_Henry · **Reply #38 on:** June 12, 2016, 03:26:40 am

Added the two white belts and eyebrows.

ShowMeYourMoe · **Reply #39 on:** June 13, 2016, 02:02:44 am

Really glad to see you keeping at this. I don't know if what I'm about to say has been said, but I Think you should give the hair an outline, especially because the rest of the body has one. And also, the mouht's a bit weird for several reasons, and there are different ways to approach this.

The problems with the mouth ( that I see at least) are that it blends to much with l the skin, and has WAY too many colors. The teeth don't need any shading at all, yet there are three shades, which aren't even that visible. You also outlined it, which you could definitely do without. It might be best to try not to include things like teeth or lips, as they're details that are to realistic, and that kinda takes away from the chibi style. I'm no expert on this, and I only have a bit of knowledge on the subject, but basically, there's a line between cute and realistic that can be seen as creepy. This isn't to close to that, but it's better to stay closer to cute and simple by removing the teeth and lips.

also the grey outline thing around the yellow line on the boots isn't necessary, I'll put my edit below. I didn't cover everything i edited, nor did i edit in everything I covered. Sorry.

Ah, also, If you're gonna outline, do it all black, and don't outline too frequently. I'm sure someone out there made colored outlines work, but I suggest you stick to normal black outlines.

Capta1n_Henry · **Reply #40 on:** June 13, 2016, 02:39:13 am

I honestly believe it looks better with both black and colored outlines, though you are right about the hair outline. I feel like if I put black outline everywhere it would kind of ruin the color separation and make everything sort of blend into each other. That's just my preference/opinion. The mouth looks way better and less creepy though.

I don't know if I should put the darker color at the top of the mouth or at the corner. This character's mouth has shading on the top and little bit on the side.

Atnas · **Reply #41 on:** June 13, 2016, 02:58:13 am

This still looks creepy because the head and body are completely perfectly horizontal and facing the camera, with the head is shifted over to the side to make room for the arm.

(⍤_⍤)
\\

The arm and face are z fighting in my brain as well.

SARS · **Reply #42 on:** June 13, 2016, 03:10:49 am

I think Atnas is right but you've still made great progress. Perhaps make your canvas a little bit bigger; that way you could add a bit of shoulder on her right arm and the hair wouldn't be running into the edge. It also looks like her legs are not quite lined up under her torso. It seems that it's an artifact of the clothing so maybe rethink the edge of the skirt by her left leg?

As for the mouth I'd suggest making the top not perfectly horizontal to start. See how the character in your image has the corners of her mouth turned down? It might make it look a bit less sticker like. Keep at it!

PixelPiledriver · **Reply #43 on:** June 13, 2016, 06:06:09 am

Use overlap to your advantage and decide what is in front of what.
Compare the two frames below.

Arm first gives more twist and power to the punch.
Face first squares her up and feels more stable but less enthusiastic.

drain. · **Reply #44 on:** June 13, 2016, 06:21:10 am

Atnas and PPD make pretty good points, and a really great draw-over. As with pixel art, even the smallest change can alter a piece very drastically, as showcased by the two frames of different overlap. I also agree with SARS, try working in a bigger canvas, because it gives you way more freedom when you want to change or remove some stuff.

Capta1n_Henry · **Reply #45 on:** June 13, 2016, 02:03:55 pm

Aw man. I thought I was doing good. *sighs* I guess it's back to the drawing board. Thank you for that amazing edit.

Xer0bot · **Reply #46 on:** June 13, 2016, 04:03:41 pm

You are doing good.

PixelPiledriver · **Reply #47 on:** June 13, 2016, 11:36:11 pm

Yep, you're doing fine.
Don't think of my edit as showing you what's wrong with your pixels.
Think of it as showing you a direction you could go in if you want.

You dont need to start over.
Cut deep into your pixels and build off of what you already have.
Just have a good backup process.
I store all my progress in frames as I go.

Mnots · **Reply #48 on:** June 15, 2016, 01:06:02 am

Quote from: Capta1n_Henry on June 13, 2016, 02:03:55 pm

Aw man. I thought I was doing good. *sighs* I guess it's back to the drawing board. Thank you for that amazing edit.

Just wanted to chime in here, and say that I remember your very first post here a while back, and I can tell that you've improved quite a bit since you started. Don't be discouraged, and keep at it!

Mistakes are portals of discovery!

Capta1n_Henry · **Reply #49 on:** June 15, 2016, 01:51:51 am

Hmmm, not sure what I want to do now. I appreciate the feedback though guys.

MysteryMeat · **Reply #50 on:** June 15, 2016, 02:06:07 am

If you feel the piece is done, then move on to your next! The more you draw the better you'll get, it's very likely you could be like and even surpass the people on this website if you work at it.

Capta1n_Henry · **Reply #51 on:** June 15, 2016, 03:12:11 am

Nah, I got to work on this piece until I think it'd be good enough for people to enjoy. Plus I've never finished anything I put on this site for critique before. I figured this would be the first.

MysteryMeat · **Reply #52 on:** June 15, 2016, 03:28:40 am

Well, you're certainly doing well! Study what other people have done to edit it, and tweak it yourself to see what looks good!
And remember, criticism isn't bad! Think of it like having someone spot you while you do heavy lifting exercises, you're getting better and stronger and they're there to help guide you and keep you going!

drain. · **Reply #53 on:** June 15, 2016, 01:03:13 pm

I, for one, am actually amazed at you. Not because of your ability to make pixel art, but by your dedication. Personally, I never really get anything done, because I become so lazy/busy. I seldom finish a piece because I grow tired of it or I become occupied by something else.

I salute you for the dedication to finishing a piece. Even if your thread attains more than 50 replies.

Capta1n_Henry · **Reply #54 on:** June 19, 2016, 09:20:53 pm

Uggghhh. I'm sorry I haven't replied in like a week. I've been kinda sick and still am.

Just to clarify on whats wrong, I need to:
1. Make her head not go to the side and instead give her a neck
2. Make corrections to the arms and legs and give her an actual shoulder

Is there anything I'm missing? Sorry, my brains kinda fried right now.

Capta1n_Henry · **Reply #55 on:** June 25, 2016, 12:27:58 am

I think I took way too much out of PPD's edit. I tried mixing the two poses together and I added some other stuff. The guy who requested me make his character also asked other people to do the same, so now I have more reference pics to work off.

MysteryMeat · **Reply #56 on:** June 25, 2016, 03:11:40 am

Looking way better! Keep up the excellent work!
Try to round out the edges of her face some with the darker shade, you don't have to redraw anything to accomplish that so much as just shading the very outer-edges of the lines to achieve a rounder look!

A more in-depth guide on the concept can be found here:
http://opengameart.org/content/chapter-6-anti-aliasing

Capta1n_Henry · **Reply #57 on:** June 25, 2016, 03:19:26 am

Is this better?

MysteryMeat · **Reply #58 on:** June 25, 2016, 09:14:32 am

Getting there! The leftside cheek still feels a bit too straight, but once that's rounded out i think she should be ready to go!

Capta1n_Henry · **Reply #59 on:** June 25, 2016, 01:32:41 pm

How's this?

MysteryMeat · **Reply #60 on:** June 25, 2016, 09:10:35 pm

fantastic! good work, yo!

Capta1n_Henry · **Reply #61 on:** June 25, 2016, 09:13:15 pm

Great. Now I'm done. Thanks guys for guiding me on this journey.

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AuthorTopic: [WIP][CC] Chibi Commission (Read 16476 times)