AuthorTopic: Aphantasia - not having the "mind's eye"  (Read 15695 times)

Offline surt

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Re: Aphantasia - not having the "mind's eye"

Reply #40 on: April 28, 2016, 06:26:21 pm
I am sure there are some people out there who can picture stuff in full 3D in front of their eyes and rotate them around.
The only time I've ever been able to directly mentally visualize I could do exactly that. Was on the edge of sleep in an insomniac delirium. I figure a bit of dream state was leaking into my consciousness.

A simple construct like the Batman logo I can't directly visualize, it feels more like I'm receiving a list of stroke instructions, like I'm a logo turtle or a pen plotter. I guess much the same as writing out text.

Offline ptoing

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Re: Aphantasia - not having the "mind's eye"

Reply #41 on: April 28, 2016, 06:33:39 pm
That is a good description in a way.

Also yeah, I once had what was probably sleep paralysis where I saw something that clearly was not really there. But that again, not the same as visualising, that's just dreaming while being conscious.

I wonder what kind of impact aphantasia has on being able to hallucinate. As in visual, auditory or other such hallucinations.
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Offline Ai

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Re: Aphantasia - not having the "mind's eye"

Reply #42 on: April 29, 2016, 12:12:19 am
That -is- a good description. In the case of that particular image, it is defined along two opposite edges simultaneously (Imagine a person wielding pencils in both hands and each hand is completing its half of the image). Since this is not true for many other images, I think this might reflect the order in which our brain is processing the different parts as we see them (which itself is probably tied to exactly where our vision is focused at any particular time)

For the 3d rotation exercise (which I can do, also with translation/movement) it feels like only one set of parallel lines are there, and to get the right position for the others, I need to actively decide to examine that axis now.

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Offline Seiseki

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Re: Aphantasia - not having the "mind's eye"

Reply #43 on: April 29, 2016, 09:59:27 am
This is a very interesting discussion.

Ptoing, if you're able to draw objects without seeing or visualizing them, to me it sounds like you're brain is still doing the work, it's just not showing it to you. Or are there other ways to draw things, other ways the brain store information other than visual, like muscle memory.

If you saw something completely abstract for a short duration and then had to draw it, would you be able to?

Offline ptoing

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Re: Aphantasia - not having the "mind's eye"

Reply #44 on: April 29, 2016, 10:09:50 am
I honestly have no idea. Would have to try that sometime, though that would be somewhat difficult to set up alone.
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Offline yrizoud

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Re: Aphantasia - not having the "mind's eye"

Reply #45 on: April 29, 2016, 11:34:27 am
it sounds like you're brain is still doing the work, it's just not showing it to you.
I got the same impression. I don't think you could draw or write at all, if it was not the case.
Another experiment : Imagine a lowercase letter p. If it gets rotated 180, which lowercase letter is it. (Try do it when you don't have a lowercase "p" to look at)
« Last Edit: April 29, 2016, 11:36:07 am by yrizoud »

Offline ptoing

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Re: Aphantasia - not having the "mind's eye"

Reply #46 on: April 29, 2016, 12:15:27 pm
Yeah, I got no problems with things like that at all, I know what letters look like, and I am pretty good at spatial transformation kinda questions and such. So it is not a problem of being able to somehow process stuff in my mind, it's just that I do not see it.
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Offline Seiseki

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Re: Aphantasia - not having the "mind's eye"

Reply #47 on: April 29, 2016, 08:56:47 pm
I was actually thinking about spatial puzzles like that, it's intriguing how you're able to do them without seeing them.
If you couldn't it would probably be really hard to do everyday things.

When I think about the practical uses for being able to visualize things, I'm not entirely sure how much of it is conscious and how much is just done subconsciously.

Like if I played Tetris, I don't visualize how the pieces will fit once they fall down, I think.. Yet I still know it.
Or if I'm doing an actual puzzle, it's more like I instinctively know how they'll fit.

Offline ptoing

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Re: Aphantasia - not having the "mind's eye"

Reply #48 on: April 29, 2016, 09:44:54 pm
Speaking of Tetris. Kan is this really amazing Japanese player. I met him at Stunfest in France in 2014, really nice guy. He did a bunch of live plays on stage. It was fucking amazing.

Here is a video, and timestamped at a relevant part.
https://youtu.be/_e8qGnfswso?t=24m37s

So as you can see in TGM3 at a certain point you get a credit roll and the blocks go invisible when they land. I wonder if he has really good visualisation skills where he basically visualises the fallen blocks, so he can see the playfield more or less how it would be if they were visible.
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Offline DatMuffinMan

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Re: Aphantasia - not having the "mind's eye"

Reply #49 on: April 30, 2016, 12:57:05 am
I just saw this conversation so probably a lot of this has nothing to do with the recent posts (I've only read the first 2-3 pages of posts. Sorry if my comments are not relevant lol.

As far as visualization goes, I can, like DB said, very clearly visualize something like a dino biting onto a building, ripping it off the ground, and going to town on something, tearing an entire city to shreds. I can imagine the gestures of the dino, the snarling and the growling and how it would shake its head fiercely as it demolishes whatever lies in its path. What has always been weird to me is that I can never translate these images into drawings. Perhaps it is my lack of knowledge of anatomy, or of how to draw things in general, mainly because I don't draw nearly as much as I should. But even simpler things that are beyond basic shapes, like a frog jumping off of a rock; I can imagine the elegant spring-y motion of the frog's legs as they extend and how the frog flies in a parabolic curve, eventually rotating midair slightly to land again. But if I try to animate something like this from memory, absolutely impossible.

I've gotten better at conveying poses and actions from my imagination lately, thanks to doodling for hours throughout school. But it's strange how clearly I can imagine a motion in my head without being able to draw it the same way.