AuthorTopic: Isometric characters (wip)  (Read 21158 times)

Offline Rox

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Re: Isometric characters (wip)

Reply #20 on: September 27, 2006, 08:05:16 am
First of all, welcome back! I didn't think it was you at first. If I'd gotten the first post in this thread I'd be telling you off for ripping the designs. Should've known...

Second, I don't have time to comment a bunch and stuff, but... Look at what Gil did. I absolutely love that. It keeps the style (which I think looks great), but adds a bit of volume to make them look less clip-art like (which is the worst side of your style). Those extra few pixels of shading Gil put there aren't even noticable if you don't compare, but they make him look like an actual.. object, in an actual space. Instead of just a flat image. That's a good thing!

Sometimes, your very own style isn't half as interesting to everyone else as it is to you... I know all about that. But change can only lead to the better in a case like this. Keep that in mind.

Offline Helm

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Re: Isometric characters (wip)

Reply #21 on: September 27, 2006, 08:18:52 am
This isn't getting us anywhere else than you getting offended, and that's not a good place to be. Just some last clarifications for... the public record!

Well, I'll just chalk this up to another person not liking my comic

Did I say I don't like your comic? I was always very fond of AMD and followed it for quite a while before fourth-wall breakage (and that whole 'they are stealing my art' perpendicular argument) made me lose interest. See what you did right here? You assumed I was saying something worse and different and easier to dismiss than what I was really saying, strawmanning my argument so to speak. Please don't do that, it leads to artificial tensions that we are better off avoiding! I like you, I like your comics, I like your art, everybody is happy. We're just having a conversation about risks, art, and art with risks. It's a bit OT I agree, and it really isn't helping the base sprite become any better for most intents and purposes, but not all.

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And no, my plans are not to use these in a webcomic. That has considerably different requirements. For one, all the backgrounds, as someone pointed out earlier, would all be floors.

I see. I assumed wrong.

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Several people in this thread have recognized me (even though I made no distinct mention of who I was initially), so I don't think I was crossing any lines by assuming that it is common knowledge to at least some of the population of this board.

Seriously, it's a different pixelation. It's been years. Some oldies know. I'm just saying, don't refer to your past as if it's very well-known, it puts you in an arrogant light for no reason.

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Are you attacking my claim as a pixel artist, or perhaps calling my talent out for a duel or something?

No, and hell no. Why do you see things in such terms? You are bringing confrontation upon you whereas I really don't care for e-penis measurements or ARE YOU TRVE ENOUGH? stuff. I am saying that your claim of taking special care of your pixel art comes at odds with inclusion of effects and filters because one would expect someone that loves the artform to apply it to effects as well. It's a simple point, made by an observer, which should give you some food for thought, regardless of your direct need to come to a fierce rebuttal.

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I take plenty of risks. You just don't agree with any of them.

Could very well be.

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Okay, first, you know why people like Bob and George?

No, for the life of me, I don't.

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Second, I'm by no means content with my artwork. I posted here because I couldn't get a damn shoe to look right. What followed was an almost surreal experience of me having to defend my stylistic preferences.

I really really don't understand why you're so on-the-edge about this, we're just talking. You asked for critique, I tried to offer critique, you told me you don't care for my critique because you're in a different place and you've tried what I suggest and it doesn't work for you, and I'm just trying to explore the whys, because this sort of discussion is both illuminating, and can challenge concepts that might not actually hold up as well as you/I thought.

Offline Frychiko

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Re: Isometric characters (wip)

Reply #22 on: September 27, 2006, 10:36:05 am
The shades on the zombie (especially the dark green on the zombie face, and the pillow shading), make it look like artifacts in an awful too-compressed jpeg file~
I'd recommend making the shades darker and removing the pillow shading (barely can see it, and it suggests jpeg compression).

Sorry I don't have time to offer suggestion about the feet at the moment.

P.S. You don't know me, but I'm someone who knows your 'history', comic etc.

« Last Edit: September 27, 2006, 10:39:20 am by Frychiko »
Congratulation this story is happy end. Thank you. - Ghost & Goblins

Offline Meta|Fox

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Re: Isometric characters (wip)

Reply #23 on: September 27, 2006, 11:06:38 am
alright, I'm gonna keep this blunt. so i apologize for any bruising of the ego in advance.

i think you should stop looking for attacks within peoples posts and start actually reading them.
by this i mean you seem a little paranoid that people are trying to attack you because of the "controversy" in the past. the truth is, i don't think anyone really cares anymore. i certainly don't.
And although your art is nice and has a nice style to it, it never really surpasses just nice. through out the comic your art has barley progress at all (at least not in any other way but lineart).
you need to stop deflecting peoples C+C (which is all your really doing so far) and really take it into consideration. because you came here to improve and thats the only real way you can achieve that.


« Last Edit: September 27, 2006, 11:30:34 am by Meta|Fox »

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Offline Joel

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Re: Isometric characters (wip)

Reply #24 on: September 27, 2006, 01:31:23 pm
I feel that the discussion of his former presence on the Pixelation forums, his webcomic and his style should probably end before it gets out of hand. He wants help on the feet of an isometric base, that's what we should be giving him.

I think Sqorqar might have accidently overlooked Froli's edit of his original sprite, which I think Froli did a good job on. Besides that, I've read AMD and I know that's most likely the style you're going for so I think we should just wait for him to have a look at the feet edit. :)

Offline Sqorgar

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Re: Isometric characters (wip)

Reply #25 on: September 27, 2006, 08:08:27 pm
How about this little edit on the feet?

I understand what you are trying to do here, but it's not really working for me.  You're trying to line his features along the isometric plane, but but he's not completely pointing in that direction. He's standing with his left shoulder a little back, such that his left foot is pointing out towards the corner and his back arm isn't quite as obscured as it should be. The boat foot does look better for some reason, and I can only chalk it up to the other leg being longer, since I know I've darkened that pixel before and not been happy with it. I'll have to try that again.

Quote from: Helm
I am saying that your claim of taking special care of your pixel art comes at odds with inclusion of effects and filters because one would expect someone that loves the artform to apply it to effects as well.
Calling the validity of my claim into question, especially in the way you did it, is combative. What you are doing is placing qualifiers on what someone who loves the artform should have in order for you to accept his claim. If I say I'm passionate about oranges, do you have any right to disagree in the first place? Is it your place to suggest that I'm not passionate about oranges (or more passionate than I should) because you'd expect orange fans to have orange colored furniture? I am passionate about pixel art, and if I never plotted another pixel in my life, that claim still wouldn't be "at odds".

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Seriously, it's a different pixelation. It's been years. Some oldies know. I'm just saying, don't refer to your past as if it's very well-known, it puts you in an arrogant light for no reason.
You know, that may be true, but the three people who posted after you all indicated they were aware of it. Arrogant or not, it does appear well-known enough.

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I really really don't understand why you're so on-the-edge about this, we're just talking. You asked for critique, I tried to offer critique, you told me you don't care for my critique because you're in a different place and you've tried what I suggest and it doesn't work for you, and I'm just trying to explore the whys, because this sort of discussion is both illuminating, and can challenge concepts that might not actually hold up as well as you/I thought.
But I explained that in my first response. I don't care for the look of shading/AA because it isn't part of the style and look I'm looking for or find particularly appealing. If I shade too obviously in one place, I'd have to shade the entire character for consistency. So I like my shading, if I use it at all, to be effective at softening the image while still being practically invisible to the naked eye.

I've actually explained this multiple times, not just to you, but several others who have been somewhat less polite in their insistence. I have said, thank you very much, but that's not what I'm looking for, could you please concentrate your critiques somewhere else enough times that that I think I've earned at least a little frustration at the absurdity of the situation. I mean, then you guys start calling my judgement into question, not because there is anything technically wrong but because you prefer a different style than I'm offering. It's just weird, people! That's not a critique!

I shouldn't have to repeatedly defend my style. I should just have to say ONCE that I made a conscious decision to do something a particular way and I'm not interested in changing it, and that should be it. I mean, sure, you can say "I disagree with your decision, but it's your art and you are welcome to make it any way you want", but to repeatedly insist that I change my style is just. too. much.

Quote from: Frychiko
The shades on the zombie (especially the dark green on the zombie face, and the pillow shading), make it look like artifacts in an awful too-compressed jpeg file~ I'd recommend making the shades darker and removing the pillow shading (barely can see it, and it suggests jpeg compression).
I don't think that would be the case when seen in the context of a full isometric scene at 2x. Also, this base will most likely be used in a game based on my comics, so I want to use the exact same colors and shading that I do in the comics.

Quote from: Meta|Fox
through out the comic your art has barley progress at all (at least not in any other way but lineart).
I'm not asking for critiques on my comic, but thanks for sharing.

Offline Larwick

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Re: Isometric characters (wip)

Reply #26 on: September 27, 2006, 08:36:43 pm
I understand what you are trying to do here, but it's not really working for me.  You're trying to line his features along the isometric plane, but but he's not completely pointing in that direction. He's standing with his left shoulder a little back, such that his left foot is pointing out towards the corner and his back arm isn't quite as obscured as it should be. The boat foot does look better for some reason, and I can only chalk it up to the other leg being longer, since I know I've darkened that pixel before and not been happy with it. I'll have to try that again.

(I've avoided reading any of the other posts or paragraphs in this thread i'm afraid.. but this just caught my eye so..)

Sqorgar, if the character isn't completely pointing in that direction, then why not fix that yourself? You can obviously see the defects, and so you can take their help into consideration and follow on from there... surely?

Anyway, i hope all this stuff going on here will be reconsiled soon.

Offline Sqorgar

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Re: Isometric characters (wip)

Reply #27 on: September 27, 2006, 08:46:37 pm
Sqorgar, if the character isn't completely pointing in that direction, then why not fix that yourself? You can obviously see the defects, and so you can take their help into consideration and follow on from there... surely?
Oh, I meant that he was supposed to be pointing in that direction. This isn't just an isometric sprite, but also one I'm hoping to use for a hexagonal game. Hexes are very similar to isometric diagonals, but aren't exactly a straight diagonal line, so I wanted the base to split the difference, so he could be appropriate in both situations without change. Also, strictly adhering to iso lines causes the back arm to look strange to me, so I wanted to fudge the stance anyway so I could get a clearer and more obvious figure.

(It's probably just lazy of me to use the same base for hex and iso rather than creating two different ones, but once you throw in animations and stuff, that's a lot of work for two projects I'm probably not going to finish. Better to be generic and have stuff I can use in future projects I won't finish...)

Offline Meta|Fox

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Re: Isometric characters (wip)

Reply #28 on: September 27, 2006, 10:30:13 pm
I'm not asking for critiques on my comic, but thanks for sharing.

I apoligize, that comment came out more harshly then i intended. but im haveing trouble figuring out WHY you dont want to improve. your certinally capable. You asked for general critique but i think you may of only wanted critique on the basic form of your peice, not the shading or colouring ect... i think that this is where most of the confusion in the thread is coming from. So make it very clear, what do you wish to be critiqued on?
« Last Edit: September 27, 2006, 10:32:10 pm by Meta|Fox »

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Offline Xion

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Re: Isometric characters (wip)

Reply #29 on: September 28, 2006, 01:13:20 am
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And although your art is nice and has a nice style to it, it never really surpasses just nice.
Alright, I agree with that...and, though I may want to, I'll try not to get into this bickering that seems to be going on, so I'll leave it at that.

Alright then.

*Oblivious to previous OT posts*

It seems to me that you need more specular hilights and higher contrast. Yeah, it's been said, but I'm saying it again. You can shade well without losing that simplicity you've got going on here, man. See, If you add a white hilight  to the hair or head (in the case of the template), just a small one, you've still got that nice, big space filled with flat skintone, only with an added sense of depth. Same with contrast. Really, If you want to get oldschooly without actually getting oldschooly, higher contrast without aa would be more oldschooly than the low contrast dealio you got goin' on here.

That's all.

...

*Cough*
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Seriously, it's a different pixelation. It's been years. Some oldies know. I'm just saying, don't refer to your past as if it's very well-known, it puts you in an arrogant light for no reason.
You know, that may be true, but the three people who posted after you all indicated they were aware of it. Arrogant or not, it does appear well-known enough.

3 people out of how many forum members? That's like saying "In New York I'm famous 'cause a hundred people know me." Compared to the overall percentage of people on this forum, the people that  remember you are nothing. Myself included. Even considering the fact that I knew who you were when I first saw your avatar, I, for the life of me, cannot think of what events on your "record" you're referring to. I know the who of you but not the what, see?
Aight.
*cough*

...

*cough*
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If the Bob and George guy posted his comics here, you'd rip him a new one - but only because it's not his art to take credit for, not because the art is terrible.
Yeah it is.
*cough*

Alright, I'm done.
I need to get this cough checked out. >_>