AuthorTopic: Help needed!  (Read 10831 times)

Offline Morph

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 59
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Pixel with Gimp, Program with Python
    • View Profile

Help needed!

on: September 21, 2006, 05:19:57 pm
OK, I'm trying to master pixel art quite long now but i think i don't get better! :o So i need some help, cause it's like everyone in here makes his arts so easy. But my great problems are the things you need to master and they are:
1 - My first GREATEST problem is making shapes, i just can't so i would like to know how others do it
2 - Colouring. I can pick the colours but the result is rubbish. :P

Here's some more explaining picture from an banana which i screwed up very fast after i started(i made worser things btw):



Can anyone help me making me an better artist? :-*

Offline ptoing

  • 0101
  • ****
  • Posts: 3063
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • variegated quadrangle arranger
    • the_ptoing
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/2191.htm
    • View Profile
    • Perpetually inactive website

Re: Help needed!

Reply #1 on: September 21, 2006, 05:24:02 pm
Quote
1 - My first GREATEST problem is making shapes, i just can't so i would like to know how others do it

Learn fundamentals, draw with a pencil.

Quote
2 - Colouring. I can pick the colours but the result is rubbish. :P

Don't think much about colour before you are decent with a pencil.

Don't try to better your artskills with pixelart if you traditional artskills are basic still.

There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Morph

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 59
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Pixel with Gimp, Program with Python
    • View Profile

Re: Help needed!

Reply #2 on: September 21, 2006, 05:26:14 pm
Maybe an silly question but how do i improve my art skills the best. And do i have to scan in the piece than... that won't be an matter but i'd like to know  ;)

Offline Helm

  • Moderator
  • 0110
  • *
  • Posts: 5159
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Asides-Bsides

Re: Help needed!

Reply #3 on: September 21, 2006, 05:54:11 pm
Quote
Maybe an silly question but how do i improve my art skills the best.

You practise.

Offline Morph

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 59
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Pixel with Gimp, Program with Python
    • View Profile

Re: Help needed!

Reply #4 on: September 21, 2006, 06:35:05 pm
Yeah... but i guess i need to know about some basic technics? because i won't get far by just painting ducks and monsters without knowing anything about that. I'm not that good i just grab some paper and paint some thing, edit it a bit and get better with that... i've never tried it but i guess i don't

Offline ceddo

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 143
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Help needed!

Reply #5 on: September 21, 2006, 06:44:21 pm
Yeah... but i guess i need to know about some basic technics? because i won't get far by just painting ducks and monsters without knowing anything about that. I'm not that good i just grab some paper and paint some thing, edit it a bit and get better with that... i've never tried it but i guess i don't

ptoing already answered your question: just draw normally. that has nothing to do with scanning or computers, or anything other than a pen and paper. Draw things all around you, and never draw without a model until you get confident.

Offline Morph

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 59
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Pixel with Gimp, Program with Python
    • View Profile

Re: Help needed!

Reply #6 on: September 21, 2006, 06:50:04 pm
So just sit anywere, and when I see an table, i draw an table, when i see an fridge i draw a fridge? That sounds quite good.... :lol:

Offline ptoing

  • 0101
  • ****
  • Posts: 3063
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • variegated quadrangle arranger
    • the_ptoing
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/2191.htm
    • View Profile
    • Perpetually inactive website

Re: Help needed!

Reply #7 on: September 21, 2006, 06:54:40 pm
Exactly just like that, and nature, people, animals.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline robotriot

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 166
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Tubby mechanical friend
    • View Profile
    • robotriot

Re: Help needed!

Reply #8 on: September 21, 2006, 07:19:34 pm
Heh, somehow this reminds me of a picture I made 6 years ago, not much better really :D

WELCOME TO BATTLE SQUADRON

Offline VictorR

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 198
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Let's fighting love..
    • View Profile

Re: Help needed!

Reply #9 on: September 21, 2006, 08:57:17 pm
start out with people, thats what I did, it helped me understand alot of basic shading that you can do and anatomy..which is also really important and can help costruct even greater art.

Offline Morph

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 59
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Pixel with Gimp, Program with Python
    • View Profile

Re: Help needed!

Reply #10 on: September 22, 2006, 04:26:05 pm
Quite funny banana ;)
I drew some people today, and my dog yesterday. It was quite fun actualy. And when i've just finnished 2 heads i understand better why all my pieces are ugly. I've to work the most on collors and shadows.. But of course i'm going to draw more! Thanks for supporting me while i'm learning the art!

Offline Morph

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 59
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Pixel with Gimp, Program with Python
    • View Profile

Re: Help needed!

Reply #11 on: September 23, 2006, 10:57:27 am
I know it's maybe to fast to begin pixeling again but i just couldn't think of just trying  :P. So i made an head. It's in the really beginning of course and there must be much done before it's finnished but here it is:

I've tried to make the shape of the head the best, i didn't tried to colour it beautiful. I looked to one of my sketches i made. So what do you think?
« Last Edit: September 23, 2006, 11:17:09 am by Morph »

Offline Elk

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 294
  • Karma: +0/-2
  • Choice Architect & Nudger
    • elkdarkshire
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/4683.htm
    • darkshire
    • darkshire.elk
    • View Profile

Re: Help needed!

Reply #12 on: September 23, 2006, 11:11:08 am
ive practised pixeling without any help

try to find your own style :O
Open for business
elkdarkshire@gmail.com
Elk#2299

Offline Morph

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 59
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Pixel with Gimp, Program with Python
    • View Profile

Re: Help needed!

Reply #13 on: September 23, 2006, 11:18:37 am
Own styles comes later. I think it's not really clever to do pixeling without any help. You can better getting some help and become and great artist....

Offline Panda

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1008
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • 威風堂々
    • View Profile

Re: Help needed!

Reply #14 on: September 23, 2006, 11:32:31 am
I think style is something that should be developed once one knows the basics. Otherwise, any errors and the like will be just addressed as "It is my style". So yeah, bullshit to that.
When practicing try to sketch what you see, and not what you think you see. (So yeah dont try to make up parts and the like)

What you did, as a start, I guess it's alright, but it could be improved. There is not much to be said, you just need more practice esp. sketching wise if your sketch looks like what you pixelled.
Pixelling-wise, all I can say, is that you could practice picking your palette more wisely (since most of the colors blend too much), start shading for giving volume and setting light sources and so, and well anatomy overall. But yeah sketch more.

Keep practicing and good luck

Offline Morph

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 59
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Pixel with Gimp, Program with Python
    • View Profile

Re: Help needed!

Reply #15 on: September 23, 2006, 11:47:24 am
Thanks, that's an answer wich helps! I've made an update wich uses your palete and I'm drawing my dog now ;)
Here it is:

I guess it's much better
« Last Edit: September 23, 2006, 12:18:55 pm by Morph »

Offline Godslayer

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 369
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Help needed!

Reply #16 on: September 23, 2006, 12:34:24 pm
Own styles comes later. I think it's not really clever to do pixeling without any help. You can better getting some help and become and great artist....

Quote for truth. Its good to see you understand that. Panda is also very truthful- the most helpful hint I ever got was to 'draw what you see'. I realized that when I drew from life, I was too preoccupied by what it should look like, or what I think it looks like- not what I see. Its a big, helpful distinction.

Your latest is much better (of course theres a ton of improvement room) as you seem to try to capture the form of the face with the shadows and highlights (the back of his head catching light like a ball, with his cheeks blocking it out as a flat surface) but you need to carry that out even further. Shade his forehead darker, its not receiving light, or his lips area, or the front of his chin. Also, make some ears. You cant learn if you don't try.

Good luck, Morph.
How long can the floor creak before it loses its voice?

Offline Andy Tran

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 553
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • The City of Andy Tran

Re: Help needed!

Reply #17 on: September 23, 2006, 12:53:32 pm
OK, I'm trying to master pixel art quite long now but i think i don't get better! :o So i need some help, cause it's like everyone in here makes his arts so easy. But my great problems are the things you need to master and they are:
1 - My first GREATEST problem is making shapes, i just can't so i would like to know how others do it
2 - Colouring. I can pick the colours but the result is rubbish. :P

Here's some more explaining picture from an banana which i screwed up very fast after i started(i made worser things btw):



Can anyone help me making me an better artist? :-*

  A bananna sprite like this is really good. It's nice that you made the shadow orangeish. The shape needs a little work. Maybe you should add some more details to it. Your color choices are good. Keep the shadows look blueish and highlights look yellowish.

Offline Morph

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 59
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Pixel with Gimp, Program with Python
    • View Profile

Re: Help needed!

Reply #18 on: September 23, 2006, 12:56:58 pm
Own styles comes later. I think it's not really clever to do pixeling without any help. You can better getting some help and become and great artist....

Quote for truth. Its good to see you understand that. Panda is also very truthful- the most helpful hint I ever got was to 'draw what you see'. I realized that when I drew from life, I was too preoccupied by what it should look like, or what I think it looks like- not what I see. Its a big, helpful distinction.

Your latest is much better (of course theres a ton of improvement room) as you seem to try to capture the form of the face with the shadows and highlights (the back of his head catching light like a ball, with his cheeks blocking it out as a flat surface) but you need to carry that out even further. Shade his forehead darker, its not receiving light, or his lips area, or the front of his chin. Also, make some ears. You cant learn if you don't try.

Good luck, Morph.
Wow thanks! I'm gonna really gonna use this... this is very helpfull reply for me to get better! When i've improved the head i will show it imidiatly!
« Last Edit: September 23, 2006, 01:38:57 pm by Morph »

Offline Faktablad

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 526
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • grow
    • View Profile
    • Couchpixel

Re: Help needed!

Reply #19 on: September 23, 2006, 02:05:27 pm
I'd also suggest reading the book "Drawing from the Right Side of the Brain".  It's about what Panda said: drawing what you see, and not what you know is there.

Offline Helm

  • Moderator
  • 0110
  • *
  • Posts: 5159
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Asides-Bsides

Re: Help needed!

Reply #20 on: September 24, 2006, 08:02:03 am
There should be mandatory art class in primary schools with that book across the world.

Offline Morph

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 59
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Pixel with Gimp, Program with Python
    • View Profile

Re: Help needed!

Reply #21 on: September 24, 2006, 01:30:00 pm
I've made an new, improved version of the head, i've tried to make more shade and light so it doesn't look that flat anymore, and i've also tried to add an ear.
Here it is:


And a bit more hairy one (it has also light on his nose):
« Last Edit: September 24, 2006, 03:36:02 pm by Morph »

Offline snake

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 314
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Help needed!

Reply #22 on: September 24, 2006, 04:38:22 pm
I'd also suggest reading the book "Drawing from the Right Side of the Brain".

Agreed. I went through a program using that book this year. Great stuff.

As I remember it, your left brain-half manages imagination and therefore tries to tell you what it thinks the thing you're drawing looks like. The result is usually a standard way of drawing something you've learned youself. You Right brain-half covers math, and will process things exactly as you see them. It's better at copying things, so when you draw models or objects and don't use your imagination to fill out the blank spaces, you get results you wouldn't get the usuall way and gives you something you can learn and use later on.

As for what you're doing now. I would reccomend you get the shape right first. There's very little good colouring will do if your motive looks odd and disfigured.

Little edit:



Hope it helps in some way.  :)

Offline Morph

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 59
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Pixel with Gimp, Program with Python
    • View Profile

Re: Help needed!

Reply #23 on: September 24, 2006, 05:37:46 pm
Good one! I've tried to it and this is the improved result:
old ---> new
« Last Edit: September 24, 2006, 06:14:25 pm by Morph »

Offline ndchristie

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 2426
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Help needed!

Reply #24 on: September 24, 2006, 11:19:43 pm
There should be mandatory art class in primary schools with that book across the world.

if only if only...

i actually had an excellent teacher during the first half of primary school, i have things like blind contour drawings from 2nd grade ^^ but he could be harsh.  i remember he kept us in during recess once because we couldnt remember what complementary colors were after hed told us i think 2 or 3 times
A mistake is a mistake.
The same mistake twice is a bad habit.
The same mistake three or more times is a motif.

Offline D3luxe

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Help needed!

Reply #25 on: September 24, 2006, 11:42:48 pm
Good one! I've tried to it and this is the improved result:
old ---> new


that looks a LOT better. Before, the nose was too pointed out and stuff. You are improving really quick, good job.

Offline Helm

  • Moderator
  • 0110
  • *
  • Posts: 5159
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Asides-Bsides

Re: Help needed!

Reply #26 on: September 25, 2006, 12:15:26 am
There should be mandatory art class in primary schools with that book across the world.

if only if only...

i actually had an excellent teacher during the first half of primary school, i have things like blind contour drawings from 2nd grade ^^ but he could be harsh.  i remember he kept us in during recess once because we couldnt remember what complementary colors were after hed told us i think 2 or 3 times

Holy shit! No punishing when learning art! That's totally wrong in my opinion.

Offline Faktablad

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 526
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • grow
    • View Profile
    • Couchpixel

Re: Help needed!

Reply #27 on: September 25, 2006, 03:04:18 am
I wish you were my art teacher Helm.

D3luxe, I'm impressed by the mature way in which you're taking the critiques seriously and making great attempts to improve.  It's really refreshing, and it shows in the continued edits.

Offline Takai Soyokaze

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 98
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Help needed!

Reply #28 on: September 25, 2006, 04:27:30 am
Good to see a budding pixel artist. Critiques:

1. Too much white space around the bananna, too little extra space around the profile portrait.
2. Think in a realistic sense, use proportions and scale (but don't do lose your style).

3. An idea, maybe dither some of the browns to make a more natural hairline, it's a bit like it's brown matter, but not really hair. See what the others say about the hair, then work on it. 
4. Since it's quite small, up the contrast a bit.

There are more so I made a small edit; the white was added to show you what errors the background was keeping you from seeing. I fixed quite a bit, so zoom in and compare:
->

Other than that, really good start so far for some of your first pieces of art.

Offline Morph

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 59
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Pixel with Gimp, Program with Python
    • View Profile

Re: Help needed!

Reply #29 on: September 25, 2006, 01:29:30 pm
Hmm i see what you mean. I'm going to try it myself now... i actualy didn't know how to make good, realistic looking hear but i'm going to try that know, with that dithering!!  ;D  :-* And see the contrast is to low, another point to work on  ;)
I'm glad i get some much help with getting better in pixel art! I apriciate that there are people wich just helps me and don't have to get anything back to make themselfs beter but you just help because they like pixel art. I guess these people are the best teachers  ;) Keep on the good work!!

EDIT:
Here it is! I don't know if i did enough with the dithering but i think the contrast is better now.


EDIT EDIT:
I was looking at him and i noticed his neck is a bit to flat, i'm going to fix that when i'm finnished studying. :)

EDIT EDIT EDIT:
Ok here it is, i guess his neck is better now  ;D
« Last Edit: September 25, 2006, 08:08:18 pm by Morph »

Offline Crazy Asian Gamer

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 243
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Guess who follows trends?
    • View Profile
    • CAG's NONEXISTANT Page... of DOOM

Re: Help needed!

Reply #30 on: September 26, 2006, 03:34:07 am
Agreed. I went through a program using that book this year. Great stuff.

As I remember it, your left brain-half manages imagination and therefore tries to tell you what it thinks the thing you're drawing looks like. The result is usually a standard way of drawing something you've learned youself. You Right brain-half covers math, and will process things exactly as you see them. It's better at copying things, so when you draw models or objects and don't use your imagination to fill out the blank spaces, you get results you wouldn't get the usuall way and gives you something you can learn and use later on.

As for what you're doing now. I would reccomend you get the shape right first. There's very little good colouring will do if your motive looks odd and disfigured.

Little edit:



Hope it helps in some way.  :)
Thirded. I saw that book at a library, read thru it. Very helpful and true. Draw what you see indeed.

Dithering, in my opinion, should be used sparingly. The way you have used dithering to shade the eye and nose area should probably be scrapped, as it 'dirties' the area. Realistic hair is very hard to achieve at small resolutions (haha, realistic hands are even HARDER), and thus, it might be worthwhile to consider flat shading, especially at low resolutions.

Yeah, you're one of the more mature people who come here, it seems.  :)

Oh yeah, and on the topic of random drawing, I find it's really good, once you have a grasp of form, shadow, light, etc., to just doodle, straight from your head. I know I do it in classes where I don't learn anything.  :lol: Just random things that come to your mind, doesn't even have to exist in real life. Let your imagination loose, see if you can sketch the image in your mind, you know.
 :ouch: "OK I'LL PAY ATTENTION." :D

Offline Morph

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 59
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Pixel with Gimp, Program with Python
    • View Profile

Re: Help needed!

Reply #31 on: September 26, 2006, 03:59:31 pm
Here's an edit with less dithering. Hope he's a less dirty boy now  ;) And i've also added some fade to the background and some other color shade instead of the dithering.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2006, 05:22:58 pm by Morph »

Offline Draco9898

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 169
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Toucan-tastic.
    • View Profile
    • Trevor Dunbar's website

Re: Help needed!

Reply #32 on: September 26, 2006, 06:16:18 pm
That's better, how about more contrast?

Offline Morph

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 59
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Pixel with Gimp, Program with Python
    • View Profile

Re: Help needed!

Reply #33 on: September 26, 2006, 08:11:54 pm
Hey, i tried that higher contrast, and it looks quite good, but i think to contrast is a bit too high isn't it?

   

EDIT:
I've made another piece today, it's quite looking like the painting i made. I'm quite happy with it for as far as i am in pixel art.  ;D
« Last Edit: September 27, 2006, 07:37:36 pm by Morph »