AuthorTopic: [WIP] Medieval Well - need help  (Read 6294 times)

Offline IncorrigibleBoozehound

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Re: [WIP] Medieval Well - need help

Reply #10 on: November 22, 2015, 07:57:03 pm
Add the bucket and rope and it should look pretty good.

Offline chulanbetra

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Re: [WIP] Medieval Well - need help

Reply #11 on: November 25, 2015, 12:02:24 am
I made an update. I combined suggestions from all of you:
- palette change suggested by Rhubarbist
- roof shape suggested by alanxoc3
- well poles change by IncorrigibleBoozehound and also added bucket with rope



Now this is by no means finished. I realized, that i have problems when drawing small objects. I saw it when i tried to draw small parts of the roof in first version of the image, now i saw it when i tried to draw the bucket. I think it is still easier and better to draw smaller things when learning, but since every pixel matters and errors stands out more i am struggling.

For the bucket - only the front parts looks like wooden bucket :-). There is also bad contrast with the well, its because i wanted to share colors from the well (for the metal parts) which didn't work. But still i can't get the right contrast especially the left part of the bucket. I could place the bucket near the poles but i wanted it to be on the well.

Another thing which i am not really happy is the roof and the poles that goes now to the ground instead of well. I think the roof does not have enough detail but maybe its just my impression, but the poles definitely coudl have some details. Again i discoverd that my problem here is with rouned objects. I had hard time drawing the poles so they look like cylinders, i cannot imagine getting detail on them so they still look like cylinders.:-)

p.s.: Sorry for long post, i will be trying more and maybe post another update we will see how it develops. I am also be no means an artist and i will never be, i'm a programmer so my interest is whole different area. I'm just trying to learn pixel art for 2 things:

1) I really like it and enojyed it in old games and i will be really happy to have some knowledge of this art.
2) I need some graphic in my mini - game i am working on in free time and i have no one to draw it. 3D modeling, texturing and animating these things is out of question, no way i could learn this in reasonable time so i choosed pixel art and i think i can get some graphics by myself.
3) It is a great relax from programming when i am thinking about pixels and no code:-))

Offline Adam

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Re: [WIP] Medieval Well - need help

Reply #12 on: November 25, 2015, 07:14:42 am
Just a quick edit:


I do not now enough of the project you are working on so some of these might not suit your game that well.

What I really miss is interaction between the elements.
- Cast shadows most importantly. Even some crude, quick ones can give nice depth to your art.
- If this well will be a tile on your game map, you should probably also consider the interaction with the ground: your well will be floating with outlines underneath.
- The bucket seems to be pasted on the image. Try to blend it with its surroundings! Do not be afraid to give up on detail!

I would restrain from high frequency, high contrast detailing on the roof. For me it looks rather like noise. If you want to make it more interesting, I guess there are other ways to accomplish it too.

What I did not edit is the palette. There are some nearly identical colors which could be merged, and some interaction between the ramps would also be nice.

Edit: And another advice: play around!


And just wanted to add that I really like the progress of this piece.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2015, 07:35:49 pm by Adam »
Nice. Now do the whole thing with the EGA palette!

Offline chulanbetra

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Re: [WIP] Medieval Well - need help

Reply #13 on: November 25, 2015, 09:12:34 pm
Thanks for your help, both of your edits look amazing. It has exactly the details i needed, that was the missing part which i was struggling to achieve. Still i am a bit clueless about the detail you have. I see some dithering but e.g. on the roof there are various uneven details between wood planks.

I don't know how to achieve this. Should i study more pixel art images? Should just try hard and hope for "luck" with the pixels?:-) I have seen this sort of details on various screenshots from jRPG games and when i try to draw something like that it doesn't look right. I have similar patterns in my image but they don't play together so nice like in your image. I see it is not about the palette, because you used mine crappy colors.

I know i can't have this result in a weekend, its a process i know it because as a programmer i receive similar questions from younger programmers.

p.s.: Today I realized that i have bad perspective in this piece, camera is too low i need to look from higher angle. So i need to redraw this to correct perspective anyway. I will post an update but i will need some time. Until then i will probably make some smaller object that will define my perspective better (barrels, crates etc.) and i can use them for perspective correction on this piece. :-) Until then, i will be very happy for any contribution, feel free to use and edit this piece as you wish.

Offline Decroded

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Re: [WIP] Medieval Well - need help

Reply #14 on: November 25, 2015, 10:00:22 pm
oh dear I did wonder about ur perspective...
anyway I just wanna say ur original version is a great start for a beginner it shows good texturing on the bricks.

adam's second edit shows really great painterly skill so it takes time and style to achieve that, u can learn lots by studying actual paintings and how colours r recycled in a scene.
for example the grey highlights in the wood are more subtle because they use recycled colours that don't overpower and also the placement is more strategic to create texture and highlight front edge than the simple logic of using highlights as regular lines like u did.
notice the texture of the wood is more implied and doesn't need to fill the whole plank, just a few suggestions of texture is much more effective.

anyway moving forward for the redraw its going to be difficult to see the bucket under the roof.
an idea is put bucket on ground with rope laying around.
u could also try rotating the perspective of the roof remembering when we see multiple planes of an object it looks more 3d and convincing than a front-on.
and since its a standalone object it doesn't need to match rotation of surrounding buildings (often looks nice if some things in scene are rotated arbitrarily).

Offline chulanbetra

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Re: [WIP] Medieval Well - need help

Reply #15 on: November 25, 2015, 10:32:57 pm
- Yes, the rotation is not that important it could be basically any angle, all the collision will depend on collider shape and it can roughly match the rotation of the object. I started simple, made it in the 3/4 perspective without having too much trouble. The perspective problem and redrawing is fine i am not in a hurry, the project is just my hobby to fill my spare time. I needed this to just test my current skills, test the time i need to draw things like this and consider quality (thanks to all of you for help with this). Now i will try to draw some smaller objects (barrels, crates) to get the colors and perspective right.

- I also missed the scale, because i have 16x16 pixel tiles, and i expect that the characters will be 16x32 max. This can change but it will have impact on my whole system, all the tile sizes will change, pathgraph for AI will change etc. so now i keep it small like in old jRPG. Also with the sizes i choosed, i don't draw 64x64 character sprites when i can't draw a well yet:D The well is now 80x80 and that is too much. It should be max 64x64, maybe 80x64 but it depends on the other elements like houses, doors, crates, barrels  etc.

- As i see there is plenty of things to consider, i don't know where to start first but i don't think i can make good palette without experience, so i just focus on drawing the shapes as best as I can and discuss colors here with more experienced people. I will definitely draw some smaller objects and then try to rework the well into that scale and perspective.

Offline Rhubarbist

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Re: [WIP] Medieval Well - need help

Reply #16 on: December 02, 2015, 08:47:52 pm
Cool, feel free to use it. I only got better at making colour palettes by practicing, so don't be afraid to make bad palettes.

Offline Decroded

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Re: [WIP] Medieval Well - need help

Reply #17 on: December 02, 2015, 09:28:55 pm
btw its fine to draw in greyscale or whatever colours then modify & tweak the colours later to suit.
i usually work something like that myself since i dont normally work off pre-selected palettes.

Offline chulanbetra

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Re: [WIP] Medieval Well - need help

Reply #18 on: December 06, 2015, 07:07:57 pm
I am drawing the well again in the correct perspective. I am so far confident but maybe you will see some errors in perspective:


It is not finished yet as you can see.

Now for the perspective, I made a barrel which i am using as a template . Here it is:


The barrel is in the perspective i need, its height is 24px which is 1.5x tile size of my map.

Offline BatElite

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Re: [WIP] Medieval Well - need help

Reply #19 on: December 06, 2015, 09:04:19 pm


You can ignore the alternative shading if you wish. I feel that the dark part ends too abruptly.
The important edits are:

-I changed the shading om the uppermost stones. Unless you've changed them to be rounded they're out of perspective.

-The posts are too long; they look like they end somewhere between the middle and the front of the well.
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