AuthorTopic: [WIP] + [C + C] Floating Island  (Read 10297 times)

Offline TheUnknownVar

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[WIP] + [C + C] Floating Island

on: October 22, 2015, 02:07:40 am
Hello again everyone,

I just finished up work on this floating island prototype, and would love any critique or comments you might have!
Compared to my last attempt, the rock shading is impressive (This forum has helped a ton!), but I think the grass is lacking a great deal...

Anyhow, let me know what I can do to make it better!

Pic:
« Last Edit: October 22, 2015, 02:10:33 am by TheUnknownVar »

Offline Pusty

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Re: [WIP] + [C + C] Floating Island

Reply #1 on: October 22, 2015, 04:06:22 am
These rocks look amazing :D
I think the top should be a bit flatter, although I like the way it looks it seems a bit weird to me. (Except you want to show some kind of perspective I don't understand)
Just a random hobby gamedev passing by O:
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Offline TheUnknownVar

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Re: [WIP] + [C + C] Floating Island

Reply #2 on: October 22, 2015, 02:12:21 pm
These rocks look amazing :D
I think the top should be a bit flatter, although I like the way it looks it seems a bit weird to me. (Except you want to show some kind of perspective I don't understand)

Thanks Putsy! Like I said, the grass is not right. It needs some work!
Below is the original without the annoying grass. Also, it has the shades I was using for grass to the left side.

The perspective I'm going for by the way is a 2d platformer without the added depth of 2.5d pixel art found in games such as Chasm or Frogatto.

Edit: Anyone with some grass experience have some good tips?

« Last Edit: October 22, 2015, 03:47:24 pm by TheUnknownVar »

Offline Pusty

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Re: [WIP] + [C + C] Floating Island

Reply #3 on: October 22, 2015, 06:42:56 pm
Well I'm not sure what perspective you want but I tried to make a little edit:



I know my grass is as bad as it could be, but I wanted to know if this is the perspective you are searching for.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2015, 06:45:14 pm by Pusty »
Just a random hobby gamedev passing by O:
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Offline TheUnknownVar

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Re: [WIP] + [C + C] Floating Island

Reply #4 on: October 22, 2015, 07:24:17 pm
No, not really the perspective I'm going for. Look at http://noelberry.ca/game/skytorn for an example. I'm going for just a standard 2d perspective.
Hopefully shows my exact perspective.

Offline TheUnknownVar

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Re: [WIP] + [C + C] Floating Island

Reply #5 on: October 23, 2015, 12:59:13 pm
Anyone have some C + C or tips on how I can improve the grass?

Offline Johasu

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Re: [WIP] + [C + C] Floating Island

Reply #6 on: October 23, 2015, 03:03:08 pm
The flat top approach and super straight edges to your rocks are making the entire composition feel very molded like plastic.
Your two highlight colors are extremely bright and in very high contrast with the other colors you are using (which are in themselves very saturated).
Your rockwork is very pointy and unnatural. The way you used the same general shape and flipped it back and forth has left the whole thing feeling fabricated as well.  It doesn't seem natural and there is no feeling of cohesion between the stones.  What is holding them together?

I've made a very quick edit to show you a grass style that might come close to the style of art you are using.  You can use the same general idea.  Flattened out on top sort of approach but suggest that it's still grass on top without it being a smooth plane. Perhaps the center is accustomed to being stepped on.  Flatten out the grass. in the middle.
I also removed your too highlight colors and desaturated the whole thing quite a bit.


The stones still need attention in my opinion.  It's a bit glaring the way they are stacked onto one another.  Redefine the shapes.  Consider the whole thing as a chunk of stone ripped out of somewhere perhaps. Stone doesn't break like that when it does break.  Rather than long smooth edges, you likely would want more of a crumbly look.
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Offline Julito98

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Re: [WIP] + [C + C] Floating Island

Reply #7 on: October 23, 2015, 11:19:12 pm
Follow carefully that ^ advice, yo can try to use more opaque colors for you floating island, i think it seems more natural  ;). Here an a crappy example:

Offline TheUnknownVar

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Re: [WIP] + [C + C] Floating Island

Reply #8 on: October 24, 2015, 01:38:50 am
Thanks for the advice and responses everyone!  ;D :y: (I appreciate it a lot!)
1. The grass advice is great, but I am going for a grass more similar to the grass posted by Julito98.
2. Your advice makes since, but I guess I am going for a more unnatural rock formation. The color and general "unnatural" shape is intentional.  ;) (Your tips will greatly help me in the future when I want to create normal styled rock though! Thank you for taking the time to post Johasu!)

Julito98, I love your grass! It will give me a great idea to work with... though it may be a while, I can't wait to post an update with a style of grass similar to yours!

« Last Edit: October 24, 2015, 01:42:55 am by TheUnknownVar »

Offline Julito98

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Re: [WIP] + [C + C] Floating Island

Reply #9 on: October 24, 2015, 03:37:37 am
Thanks for the advice and responses everyone!  ;D :y: (I appreciate it a lot!)
1. The grass advice is great, but I am going for a grass more similar to the grass posted by Julito98.
2. Your advice makes since, but I guess I am going for a more unnatural rock formation. The color and general "unnatural" shape is intentional.  ;) (Your tips will greatly help me in the future when I want to create normal styled rock though! Thank you for taking the time to post Johasu!)

Julito98, I love your grass! It will give me a great idea to work with... though it may be a while, I can't wait to post an update with a style of grass similar to yours!
Great!  :crazy:

Offline TheUnknownVar

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Re: [WIP] + [C + C] Floating Island

Reply #10 on: November 05, 2015, 04:18:15 am
Here is an update on the floating island... any thoughts on the grass? (That's the only difference, and really what I am most worried about. That's not to say I'll ignore other advice! ;)) The image I used for a reference on the grass is http://wayofthepixel.net/index.php?topic=18240.10.

Any input is fantastic!

Offline japie81

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Re: [WIP] + [C + C] Floating Island

Reply #11 on: November 05, 2015, 03:56:56 pm
I like the colors of the grass, but i'm going to repeat some advice someone gave me a while ago. You want the player to focus on the things that actually matter for gameplay (in this case the top of the platform where the player can walk). Right now the rocky bottom part pops out way more than the top because of brightness and saturation. Maybe you should try increasing the contrast on the grass by making its darkest shade(s) darker so the highlight at the top pops out more.
Perhaps the contrast already works much better on a dark background by the way, since its shown on a white background here

Also I noticed all your brown tones are fully saturated, it usually looks better when you slide through the saturation as well as the hue in your color ramps

edit:
played with the colors a bit, i think the purple-ish shadows look nice but the lighter tones dont really look that nice in my version. Also noticed it was indeed mostly the light background that messes up the contrast.

« Last Edit: November 05, 2015, 04:10:45 pm by japie81 »

Offline TheUnknownVar

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Re: [WIP] + [C + C] Floating Island

Reply #12 on: November 06, 2015, 04:06:05 am
The lighting may have to be adjusted later on once I compare it with my background (which is not finished yet!)... it will be a sunset, so the brightness should work out good. As far as saturation... I am working with the program "Aseprite", so where would I find saturation, if at all? I am pretty new at some common art terms, so I may lack some knowledge regarding things like saturation.

Edit: Just discovered HSB stands for Hue, Saturation, and Brightness. I'll mess with that to see if it improves the island a bit! ;D
« Last Edit: November 06, 2015, 04:08:22 am by TheUnknownVar »

Offline TheUnknownVar

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Re: [WIP] + [C + C] Floating Island

Reply #13 on: November 06, 2015, 01:36:31 pm
After messing around with the saturation, I decided to leave it how it is. You're probably right, it won't stand out much how it is now, so I'll adjust it more once I can compare it with the background. Any more C+C anyone?

Offline japie81

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Re: [WIP] + [C + C] Floating Island

Reply #14 on: November 06, 2015, 10:14:11 pm
These two tutorials were very helpful for me to understand the importance of colors (and things like saturation) better
http://opengameart.org/content/chapter-5-color-palettes
http://pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11299

Offline TheUnknownVar

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Re: [WIP] + [C + C] Floating Island

Reply #15 on: November 07, 2015, 03:16:49 am
Hey, great tutorials! (I really appreciated the Pixel Joint one) Thanks! :y:

Edit: Here is a much less saturated version. Does it improve it at all... is there a noticeable difference?
(The left one is the old, the right is the new) If I adjust it much more it changes the overall color of the rock, which I prefer to have an orangeish-red tint to it.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2015, 03:31:34 am by TheUnknownVar »

Offline Akisingh

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Re: [WIP] + [C + C] Floating Island

Reply #16 on: November 07, 2015, 10:18:45 am
Can you display your Picture In 3D fromat If it is possible then it look more awesome then earlier.

Offline TheUnknownVar

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Re: [WIP] + [C + C] Floating Island

Reply #17 on: November 07, 2015, 01:23:21 pm
Can you display your Picture In 3D fromat If it is possible then it look more awesome then earlier.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean. Do you mean make it 2.5D in style? Either way, I made it purposely to be standard 2d. That's the perspective my game will have.

Offline aamatniekss

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Re: [WIP] + [C + C] Floating Island

Reply #18 on: November 11, 2015, 10:44:42 am
I tried putting some of my thoughts on a quick little edit.
I changed the colours to be more contrasty and less similar to each other. It also had quite a lot of banding so I tried removing that too. And the shapes of some of the rocks seemed too unnatural so I smoothed it out a bit. And on the sides I reduced the highlights, to make it look a little more 3D, rather than looking like just a cardboard cut out.
Don't know if it's any better though, but it might give you some ideas. :)

Offline TheUnknownVar

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Re: [WIP] + [C + C] Floating Island

Reply #19 on: November 11, 2015, 03:28:37 pm
Thanks for the quick edit. It does give me some ideas on some better shading! ;D
I think I'll probably stick with the unnatural shape however, it's part of the story.
I'll continue updating as the island gets better! (Thanks to all the great advice this place has to offer!)

Offline Decroded

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Re: [WIP] + [C + C] Floating Island

Reply #20 on: November 14, 2015, 06:35:58 am
can u explain the shape thing?
details like that are relevant when ur asking for critique.
if we don't know why something looks odd we don't know how to help without that kind of info.

edit: i thought the shapes were kinda cool but couldn't rly edit without understanding what the deal was.
there were just too many options like i was inclined to render a more realistic texture of dirt with rocks and roots but suspected it wouldn't be what u want.
i can say i thought the way the rendering is done in places makes seems to contradict the way the forms overlap each other which ruins the sense of depth.
and i thought the dark planes on the right side could use some desaturated ambient light to accentuate the forms (reducing as we get closer to the centre).
« Last Edit: November 14, 2015, 10:35:07 pm by Decroded »

Offline TheUnknownVar

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Re: [WIP] + [C + C] Floating Island

Reply #21 on: November 15, 2015, 12:05:15 am
The shape of this island is supposed to be like a man-carved shape; cut intentionally. I like sharp, square-ish edges on the island rock. The rock is supposed to be canyon rock, like the grand canyon or any other red or orange rock. The island itself is held together by a device from within, so a shape that would naturally hold together is not desired.

Does that help clear things up a bit? :)

Thanks for the advice... I've noticed it seems to be lacking depth, but I am somewhat inexperienced at creating depth.
I've been messing around with different desaturated light forms, but have not gotten a look for the island good enough to post an update.
Any examples form experienced artists are appreciated.

Offline Decroded

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Re: [WIP] + [C + C] Floating Island

Reply #22 on: November 19, 2015, 10:01:17 am
here's a few unpolished ideas re the rock texture:
-->

progress:


its possible to make the grass more interesting but it already looks pretty good.

« Last Edit: November 20, 2015, 10:15:14 am by Decroded »

Offline TheUnknownVar

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Re: [WIP] + [C + C] Floating Island

Reply #23 on: November 19, 2015, 01:51:59 pm
WOW! That rock is amazing!
I'll definitely learn a lot from that example, thank you so much! :y:

Also, what was the third picture titled "progress"?
It says the image you requested does not exist or is no longer available.

It may be a while, but I will eventually post an updated version of the island.

Offline Decroded

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Re: [WIP] + [C + C] Floating Island

Reply #24 on: November 20, 2015, 10:17:40 am
ah shit fixed the broken link.
obviously now it shows the steps I took.
if I was gonna keep going I'd probably keep tweaking colours and try to smooth out some of the harsh texture lines.

Offline TheUnknownVar

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Re: [WIP] + [C + C] Floating Island

Reply #25 on: November 20, 2015, 03:32:45 pm
Alright, thanks!
I'll keep working on it!

Offline TheUnknownVar

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Re: [WIP] + [C + C] Floating Island

Reply #26 on: November 23, 2015, 10:36:02 pm
Here is an updated version based on Decroded's edit:


Thoughts anyone?
Also, thank you very much once again for the edits everyone, I've learned a lot!

Offline Decroded

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Re: [WIP] + [C + C] Floating Island

Reply #27 on: November 25, 2015, 01:00:19 am
well I think it looks great but I could be biased haha.
probably can use a little extra smoothing like where the texture lines intersect a highlight, we would use a smoother shade.
also consider that receding areas don't get such strong highlights when u want to create depth.
its not too bad how you've got it but u might want to be a little more selective as its just waayy to easy to overhighlight things so practice a little restraint where u put highlights or they can lose their effect.

when u fill a screen with similar tiles one thing u may notice is that the brightness of the rock highlights compete for attention with the solid platform top which can affect gameplay.
Notice the solid bright line on the grass in my version which was designed to separate the platform from the background.
its not the only way to do it but thought I'd better point it out.

anyway imo its more efficient to move onto some other assets at this point and touch this up later to suit the rest of the scene.

Offline TheUnknownVar

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Re: [WIP] + [C + C] Floating Island

Reply #28 on: November 25, 2015, 02:01:30 am
Thank you, I'll keep that all that advice in mind!
I have been working mostly on other things, so I will probably come back to this (as suggested) when I have more properties of the scene developed.
Thoughts are always welcome, but I will probably not post an edit for a decent amount of time.