[WIP] [C+C] My First Largish Character Sprite

[Linaru]

I have never been particularly good at characters and sprites so i decided to have a play around for practise.
i have done tones of texture work and tile sets before but most of my character sprites have been for a very small scale.



this is my first attempt at a larger more proportionate sprite, i am happy with hour the legs came out but i am struggling with the hair and face.
my experience with faces in the past has mostly been two black dots.

[lachrymose]

I'm going to refer you back to this post http://wayofthepixel.net/index.php?topic=18457.msg163308#msg163308 which should help a lot.

If you aren't using a pose reference find one. Google search for "Dynamic Poses" or pic a pose from a favorite artist of yours.

Pay special attention to proportion. Your legs are super long, so are your upper arms, the neck is non-existent.

I'd recommend starting from scratch, post a wireframe or silhouette showing the basic form of the character without clothes or hair so we can critique/tweak that, afterwards we can slowly build up the forms until we have a rockin character.

[Linaru]

nether considered using wire-frame for pixel art. i usually draw at such a small scale that its not useful..

here's an attempt



I am not aiming for perfect human shape was trying to give the sprite a style .. particularly i like the legs comming to a point, a bit like the character from 'journey's does.
its a genericish sstanding side scroller pose


Edit:
cleaned up version

[lachrymose]

Nice improvement. However, I think you need to increase your contrast more to show your forms.

[Linaru]

Nice improvement. However, I think you need to increase your contrast more to show your forms.

Played around with the contrast as you suggested and looked at your version for details.
i ended up not using quite so many dark areas as on your version.
it started to look to clustered'?' when i added alot of dark lines, so i went for a softer look

[lachrymose]

You could study this persons work for the style you are aiming for. http://www.izaksmells.com/2013/11/

Or maybe you have since this character is....Very familiar to the one you've posted.


As far your picture goes, the contrast is a bit better. I would square up the shoulders just a bit more.

[Linaru]

You could study this persons work for the style you are aiming for. http://www.izaksmells.com/2013/11/

Or maybe you have since this character is....Very familiar to the one you've posted.
-------[removed image]-------

As far your picture goes, the contrast is a bit better. I would square up the shoulders just a bit more.

the picture you posted there was one of the ones i used as a reference, tough as i was trying to produce a larger scale the body came out a kind of odd shape.
I also referenced some prince of Persia concept art.



Squared up the shoulders and moved the arms and hand details around a little, then roughed out a clothing layer on top.
played around with an alternate version of the outfit too.. sort of half skirt instead of belt ties. she needs something to flow behind her when she runs..

[lachrymose]

Looking way better.

Her shoulders and arms are still a bit wonky though.
A few points to look at.

On her shoulders, that shadow you've drawn really makes it look like her shoulder is sloping downwards, I'd get rid of it.

Generally speaking, elbows start at the bottom of peoples rib cage, hard to find in a stylized character like this, but we can make a fairly good assumption for placement.

Upper arms and lower arms are very close to the same length. What fools people is that they fail to see the wrist and shoulders as separate structures.


I've done a few edits to show you what I mean...I'll leave it up to you to try and fix up her left arm which is reallly long.

[IrresponsibleFreelancer]

This is very minute but i find the breasts of the character are very unnatural and therefore look a bit weird.  They are much to squished into the chest and together.  If the character isnt intended to be super busty then they can be made smaller not by making them smaller spheres but by decreasing the size as before but also decreasing the contrast of the shadows beneath them.

Wasnt sure how to say that maturely 

[Linaru]

Okay so i have altered the shoulders arms and neck shading quite a bit.. i looked at some other more pixel references for poses and completely altered her left arm.
i also adjusted the breasts a bit to try and make her torso a bit more natural as pointed out.



Edit: tweaked post a  bit more... still not happy with the way it looks..

[The Phinx]

She looks like a capoeirista

[dpixel]

Sometimes when anatomy is something is this small, I break it down to just lines.  It doesn't take that long and the lines don't lie...just the way you may perceive them. 
A couple things stand out.  hips to low, crotch way to high or legs to long, and boobs to far to the left.

[lachrymose]

Edit: tweaked post a  bit more... still not happy with the way it looks..

Well your pose is a bit stiff, I've ignored edits to it because I think it is more important to actually create and know the parts of your character before working on how to place her. Especially if you aren't familiar with anatomy. We need to take out time and slowly build up her forms. Its okay to not be happy with it so long as you are willing to improve it. Anyway, take a look at your initial character and the one you have now, WAY better.

I think her upper body is working way better, as mentioned her breasts aren't quite right, her right breast shouldn't extend that far back.

Her torso is also VERY square which is a feature you see in many manly men. Don't be afraid to make it curvier.

We haven't focused much on the legs yet, but all legs start at the hips, which are almost non-existent. You can "create" hips by tapering her midsection like I recommended above.

See my edits, pay attention to the differences i've made while trying out new things.

[Decroded]

Looks like she's on stilts

[lachrymose]

Looks like she's on stilts

Its an interesting stylistic choice, not a fan of it myself. Just trying to roll with it lol.

I digress it is causing me problems as well, trying to shape and position the legs is difficult to do.

[Linaru]

Looks like she's on stilts

Its an interesting stylistic choice, not a fan of it myself. Just trying to roll with it lol.

I digress it is causing me problems as well, trying to shape and position the legs is difficult to do.

I have been trying to imagine the legs as if she stood on tip toes. so that when shes standing the foot and ankle section as straight as the leg creating the pointy bit.. that's also why her legs are long.
i think its a nice style that ties in with what i have in mind for a background.

Edit: tweaked post a  bit more... still not happy with the way it looks..

Well your pose is a bit stiff, I've ignored edits to it because I think it is more important to actually create and know the parts of your character before working on how to place her. Especially if you aren't familiar with anatomy. We need to take out time and slowly build up her forms. Its okay to not be happy with it so long as you are willing to improve it. Anyway, take a look at your initial character and the one you have now, WAY better.

I think her upper body is working way better, as mentioned her breasts aren't quite right, her right breast shouldn't extend that far back.

Her torso is also VERY square which is a feature you see in many manly men. Don't be afraid to make it curvier.

We haven't focused much on the legs yet, but all legs start at the hips, which are almost non-existent. You can "create" hips by tapering her midsection like I recommended above.

See my edits, pay attention to the differences i've made while trying out new things.

I have not actually made any edits yet, i'm going to do that now. but i did a 'test' for animations to see how her body would work for a simple walk.
i had hoped that this would give me an idea on which areas of her body would not look right when her legs move.



As you mentioned there's definitely something wrong around her hips, as i moved her leg forward i found my self making the top of her thighs bulkier and curvier to compensate.

as my previous experience is mostly 8X8 - 16X16 characters its a very different work flow for me to get my head around.

=======================
edit:

so here is my edited version next to the old body for comparison:

             Old                           New


i have done away with the trousers for now since they are kind of baggy and making it difficult to see the body shape.

I have moved the knees about , shortened the legs
 made the torso a bit long, trimmed back the shoulders and tried to add a hour glass figure as suggested.
i have not changed it in the exact same way as in your examples but they certainly helped me to see what areas to move.

i have also moved the right arm out the way so we can see what is going on there.


i think for clothing i am pretty set on the white top black trousers and some sort of purple waist rag that can flap in the wind
i don't want to over detail her with accessories as it would pull away from the style i am aiming for.

[Linaru]

Okay spent some time tweaking and polishing up the clothes layers a bit definitely an overall improvement



I'm still a  little unsure on how to handle her face, there's not a lot of room for detail
aloft of reference work i have found are a much smaller resolution but simply leave the faces blank, I am not sure a blank face looks right on this character.
but at the same time my attempts to add a bit of eye detail have made her look a bit off.

[dpixel]

For the face with something this small, you really have to play with the pixels.  (More the values)  Just one pixel can make a big difference.
In my edit, I had to work with the whole head (hair and face) to get something that looks ok.  Also, I adjusted the values and tones and upped the contrast.
Hope this can give you some ideas...

[Linaru]

your attempt helped a bit with ideas but you have completely changed the pixel art style

i attempted to find a middle ground:

[dpixel]

your attempt helped a bit with ideas but you have completely changed the pixel art style

That's because I raised the contrast quite a bit.  Just my preference.  Glad it helped a bit.

[Joe]

Careful, style is a detrimental reason to hide behind. Far more often than not a close-mindedness of style will prevent you from learning something useful.
I say this only to save you time down the road.
I'm not saying to copy dpixel's style but you missed the point. The increased contrast is far closer to real values and describes a face clearly; in its present state your sprite does not.
Zoom out, look at the bigger picture, stop treating your work so delicately. Push the values outside of your comfort zone, if this is anything other than a background piece it needs contrast to be credible.

[Linaru]

i do try to be careful when i am working on pixel art to make sure i learn new things.
Contrast is something i have struggled with before in my art work, i am constantly being told to 'increase the contrast' but every attempt i do just seems to make it look awful and off balance

now i am not saying dpixels looks bad its very good and its helped me get a few ideas on how to structure the face, but the odd dark contrast does make the face look messy and in my eyes its quite difficult to work out what is going on at a glance.

when ever i start drawing with higher contrast colours i find it very difficult to tell whether my work looks like the object its supposed to or if its just because i know what its supposed to be

i hope that makes sense, i do nt want it to sound like i am stubbornly defending my work because i have played with darker contrast on more than one occasion

[Joe]

No, that does make sense. My suggestion would be to still work with normal contrast, and the critiques you get will allow you to adjust your perception to that range over time.
You're gonna master it at some point anyway, may as well start now 
That said, what defines the style you're going for? You're basically going for low detail? I can be better help that way.

[Linaru]

not really sure what you mean by 'normal contrast'

have been playing around with a rough tile set concept.. in-order to get a better idea of how my character would look in conjunction to the world. i normally dont go darker than #222222  but in an effort to increase contrast i have taken my black down to #111111

here's an example + new colour palette

the tile i have drawn here has a much darker contrast than id usually do and to me it looks a little aggressive and over-saturated


i am basically aiming for a smoother simplistic art style, i dont want to layer on to many shades of colour or to many details. something a bit like journey but in pixel art form,
only much darker and gloomyer..

perhaps something like this : https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BR61eFVCQAA1Sm-.png only less cluttered.
only 3-4 shades of colour.

[PixelPiledriver]

i have played with darker contrast on more than one occasion

Not to split the definition of your words, but:
More contrast doesn't have to mean strictly darker.

Think about it as the included range of values instead and maybe that will help you.
The idea is to create clarity between sections, surfaces, forms, objects, etc thru an overall balance, but also on an edge to edge case of colors touching.

Where and why you place contrast is up to you -> stylistically, emotionally, dramatically, compositionally, exclamatory, etc
But the most most basic use is to make the image easy to understand.

[Joe]

By normal contrast I mean the typical values you'd find under everyday lighting conditions.
Here's a step toward that direction.

   

The feet look like she's on her tiptoes, I don't really know what you're going for there.
The hair can be desaturated quite a bit and still be unnatural, it seems like that's what you were going for.
Breasts do not do that to a shirt, especially of that size. That line all the way down the left breast, just doesn't happen.
Belly button has too much detail for its size.
Imagine gripping a sword with your left hand, what shape does your hand make? Thumb goes over, wrist is relaxed.
Is the purple a scabbard? If so it cannot be bent as it would be physically impossible to draw or sheathe the sword.
I'd encourage you to outline her face so it's easier to read in light backgrounds.

[Linaru]

Actually the purple was meant to be a bit of cloth

here's my attempt to find a bit contrast without making it to heavy..



the hair and skin i have not changed much as it kept ending up to bright in comparison tot he tiles and clothes.
i got rid of my old browns and used the same ones from the test tile set i threw together.

also altered the body a bit under her shirt layer and tweaked the shirt to have less of a crease

[dpixel]

To my understanding, pixel art generally uses way fewer colors than other forms of art for the ease of making changes, animating, etc.   And to create the desired effect with few colors the best tool is higher contrast.  Of course there are exceptions.

Your hair and shirt have almost no contrast at all.  And the purple cloth needs some defining line at least.  It's hard to tell what it is as it blends too much with the pants.   

[Linaru]

i took a break did some tileset stuff then came back with a  fresh mind and modified the contrasts a little more.

[wzl]

I wanted to give this a shot for some time since i'm a fan of unnecessarily long legs for female characters. (or generally disproportionate but still kind of working anatomy)

I think the lack of contrast in your piece is not just a matter of value (lightness) but also of color.
I'm no expert on the topic but as far as i understand it different hues at the same value (in HSV) can appear darker or brighter, so choosing a different color(hue) at the same lightness can increase your contrast as well. Combining those will create contrast not just in color but also brightness, or some-such. The theory is really weird for me, but i think i sort of start to get a feeling for it anyways.

Your skin  currently is very light and flat, the shadow turns towards grey which doesn't make it feel very alive. Also the way you shaded creates only a sort of banding gradient towards the furthest distance from the light. it seems very generic and doesn't play with the forms of the anatomy or pose.

finally i felt it is really weird that the body seemingly faces straight forward (towards the viewer) while the head and the arms suggest an i'm going right motion.

[Linaru]

I wanted to give this a shot for some time since i'm a fan of unnecessarily long legs for female characters. (or generally disproportionate but still kind of working anatomy)

I think the lack of contrast in your piece is not just a matter of value (lightness) but also of color.
I'm no expert on the topic but as far as i understand it different hues at the same value (in HSV) can appear darker or brighter, so choosing a different color(hue) at the same lightness can increase your contrast as well. Combining those will create contrast not just in color but also brightness, or some-such. The theory is really weird for me, but i think i sort of start to get a feeling for it anyways.

Your skin  currently is very light and flat, the shadow turns towards grey which doesn't make it feel very alive. Also the way you shaded creates only a sort of banding gradient towards the furthest distance from the light. it seems very generic and doesn't play with the forms of the anatomy or pose.

finally i felt it is really weird that the body seemingly faces straight forward (towards the viewer) while the head and the arms suggest an i'm going right motion.

I quite like the hair and upper body on your version tough I feel the skin has way to much contrast.. it almost looks as if she has some kind of skin rash?
its certainly given me some ideas..   

as for lighting that's something I was trying to keep out of the character at this level.
this character has become a very early rough version / practice for a game project and our programmer wants to add dynamic lighting.
so i have been trying to draw the character without any directional light on them, that would probably be layered on top somehow.
i admit i have not really worked out the mechanics of it one of the reasons I am sharing and trying to get peoples opinions .

the pose is definitely wrong, when you strip away the baggy trousers the long leg shape has caused me some issues working out poses. id like to build her up as a sort of ,metroidvanian style sprite sheet, left and right movement of walking running jumping etc.
so i guess this pose better fits some sort of idle stand.

as i mentioned earlier in the post my experience in pixel art is quite limited and this kind of proportionate character is new to me.

I have been working on a level mock-up for a day or so to get a better feel for how the character should look and I am experiencing similar issues with colour and contrast there.
it seems my opinions on what looks right conflict with alot of peoples advice, maybe the style i'm aiming for does not fit the colour pallette.

[Linaru]

did a rework using the new colour palette i have worked out.

and took some inspiration from wzl's example to improve the shading in a few areas.

[lachrymose]

It has certainly come a long way. 

It would probably help to get rid of that background though, switch to the background you are using for your tiles in the other thread of yours.

[Gil]

Remember that you don't always have to unify all ramps. In this case, keeping the skin ramp separate seems to work for me. It delineates different body parts nicely.

[Linaru]

Well I want to say thank you to all of you for helping, I have learnt allot developing this character. there 's a lot of difference from those 8X and 16X sprites i have done before.

now that I have an idea of the overall style and how to draw it I want to work on making up a character sprite sheet and animating it.
as the characters for a side on metroidvanian type of game i am not sure the initial pose is right to use for a standing angle.
i am also thinking the main character should use a bow, with diagonal and straight aim, tough i am not sure how to animate a firing animation while the character is moving etc.

I am also aware there are different animating techniques some which are handled by the engine.
example: https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/33829
not sure what would work best for this art style.

if you have an advice or thoughts before i get to deep into it id appreciate the input.


Edit:
Started mocking up a new archer character sprite base.

a few variations as i am still a little sure which looks bits look best

have also been researching different animating methods

[Ambivorous]

My thoughts on this:


I changed the light source and worked with the silhouette a little. I also changed the colours used because I could not get a happy medium with the pallet provided.

Legs were too thick, pants only needed two colours and the hood looked odd (as well as the hair coming out of it).
Changed the hands a little and I was removing string pixels as I went and didn't bother re-adding them because you actually can't see the string normally as it crosses over people.

I actually do archery as an aside, but this pose is good enough to fool someone who doesn't, so don't worry too much about it.