New to Pixeling

[HalcyonDreamer]

Hey! New aspiring pixel artist here! I've read a bunch of tutorials, read over some of the best work over here, and thought I'd give it a go.

Reason for pixeling: Out of necessity, I'm a game programmer working in flash, wanting to make games in the spirit of old NES games like Megaman, ect.

I didn't really see a "read this to know how the forums work" post on the way in, so if anyone could point me to that or answer a few questions, it would be really helpful.

1. How do I post images of my sprites? Do I need them hosted on another site? (That's how img tags work, right?)

2. Any tips for a new pixel artist?

3. What's a good "project" to start off with? I'm having a lot of trouble creating original sprites that look correct, and have stuck to modding/recoloring Megaman sprites, which most likely is a big no-no.

4. I'm using Tile Studio right now, is that a good program?

Hopefully you'll be seeing me around, this seems like a really great site  .

[Mr.Modem]

First of all: Welcome to the forum! I consider myself a beginner too but I think I can answer your questions anyway.

1. Yes, you need to host your images on a hosting site before you can post them in the forum. I use Imageshack http://www.imageshack.us/ myself but some prefer Photobucket.

2. Read a good tutorial (check out st0vens site: http://www.spriteart.com) Then begin to study some of your favourite images/sprites. Then pixel something on your own. Then study some more. Then pixel some more....

3. I don't think it matters what you do as long as you start with something small. That will help you to develop you pixeling techniques.

4. I've never used this program, so I don't know if it's good or not but I suggest you download Cosmigo Pro Motion. It may take some time to get use to all the keyboard shortcuts but ones you've learn them it will be a wonderful tool to work with.

[Gil]

TileStudio is actually a great tool, for tiles. I picked it up recently and it works amazingly well (though I have some gripes with the map editor). It even has index painting of sorts...

If you're going to do sprite work, go for GraphicsGale. If you can get your hands on Cosmigo Pro Motion, go for it, it's THE most advanced pixel tool currently available...

[HalcyonDreamer]

Thanks guys. I went with Pro Motion. BTW, what does C&C mean  .
Here's an image I did of a moon. Please Critique/Edit to your hearts content, I could really use the help!
http://img362.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mymooncp5.gif

[Filax_666]

You forgot the around the link. Otherwise the image just won't show up.

Edit: plus, that link was wrong.

[Xion]

C&C = Comments and critiques.
That moon looks brushed/airbrushed like mad, man. In pixel art we try to control every pixel's color and placement by hand, avoiding anything that would automatically do the job like auto Anti aliasing (where edges of lines and shapes are automatically softened) or airbrushes. At first it may seem like alot of work, but over time, the results are quicker, cleaner, and overall more satisfying.

[Meta|Fox]

I recommend you read the Wiki on pixel art
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixelart
It covers the rules lingo and basic history of the wondeful world we call pixelart

[tomster 785]

that moon looks photoshoped

[Cure]

That was already mentioned.  I'd suggest approaching Pixelopolis in a manner different than that which caused banishment from Pixeljoint.
Meaning no redundant comments.  If you have something new and useful to add, please do, but do not repeat things others have already pointed out.

[tomster 785]

Sorry, I didn't notice that someone said that

[HalcyonDreamer]

I didn't photoshop . I guess I am guilty of using some of the brushes in Pro Motion  . I thought thats what they were for  .
I read over the tutorials posted, but I'm still confused as to using tools. Should they never be used?


I guess I should say this so I don't get shot down first post. I used Megaman sprites as a template for this work. I'm still having trouble with the outlines/ basic body structure, but I have been reading tutorials to help that. Would it be bad to feature these sprites in a game?

[Meta|Fox]

did you read the wiki? that explains it quite well.

Generally, "pure" pixel art must be created by manual pixel-level editing, without the use of any automatic filters. In the pure form, it is generally said that "each pixel was placed carefully". Purists within the pixel art scene say that pixel artists should only use tools that place individual pixels (usually the pencil tool), and no tools that automatically create shapes for you (like circle, square and line tools). Others say that the line tools and the bucket fill are acceptable, as they do nothing more than speed up the work without impacting how the work looks. The use of automatic filters such as anti-aliasing, on the other hand, is generally considered not valid in "true" pixel art, since the filters will add new pixels automatically, eliminating the careful placement

Using tools like the line tool and circle tool are fine, but use nothing like the paintbrush tool, as it doesnt do things on a pixel be pixel lvl. id say before using promotion use MSpaint for your pixel art, as the only frowned upon tool there is the spray can.

oh and READ THE WIKI!

[HalcyonDreamer]

I read the Wiki, but am confused as to why Pro Motion is so good for pixel art if I'm not supposed to use any of the tools. If I can't do that, isn't MS Paint pretty much as good?

[Indigo]

Pro Motion has a LOT of nifty tools for pixelling that you just can't find in MS Paint.  A good example is how it handles the pallette (which MS Paint is absolutely crap with).  The dither brush is also quite usefull.  and personally, I think the wiki is wrong about not using tools such as the circle, square, and line tools.  Thats just bull.  It's more of tools that auto-select colours for you is off-limits.  Such as AA'd stuff, air brush, and smudge tools.  Occationally you can get away with some indexed painting - but not often - using colours you have pre-defined.

hope that helps
-Dan

[ndchristie]

no, mspaint blows, because it is slow and clumbsey.  i personally think that IDraw3 Character Maker is the best there is, even though promotion is nice. promotion gets props for animation and palette and save formats and things, and i can see someone else really liking it, but i dont personally use it.

pixel art is about pixels, plain and simple.  filters.....not good

[ptoing]

Yup Adarias is right. Filters for Pixelart defeat the point.

In my understanding something is pixelart as long as you have full control over every single pixel, giving it the colour you want and put it where you want.
Using tools like ditherbrushes or circles and such is perfectly viable. Even stuff like darken/brighten is ok because if you know how to use it properly it gets you what you want but a bit quicker.

[ndchristie]

Using tools like ditherbrushes or circles and such is perfectly viable. Even stuff like darken/brighten is ok because if you know how to use it properly it gets you what you want but a bit quicker.

viable, though often inferior.  skilled use can save time, especially of the ditherbrush, but ive found particularly with circles that it is often better do do them by hand as well.    I personally use the pen tool for freehanding, and the square tool for everything else.  use of selection masks too i use all the time, though i dont know if this is considered as viable?  most lightenning/darkenning i do by hand, unless it effects the entire sprite, in which case ill occasionally use a filter.  effects, like colorize and blending options, are fine in games, but are accessory to the actual pixel art, which IMO should always be presented "raw" if it is to be called pixelart (otherwise it is cg or cg animation in my book)

[ptoing]

selection masks are fine as far as i am conderned. I often use the stencil mask in promotion and stuff like that. As long as i am in full control where my shit ends up all is fine. Also supersmooth lineart noone sees in the end because you draw over it = lolz

This is how i start a fullscreen image 95% of the time.
For sprites i normally make silhouettes or differently coloured parts first.

[Joseph]

just wanted to reply on what you had said earlier adarias...saying ms paint blows.  ive been using ms paint for a number of years now and have converted over to photoshop thinking it was a wise choice, and the honest idea was that I think ms paint is the best pixeling program ive ever used.  as I said earlier I have used photoshop, and ive used graphics gale, paint.net, paintshop pro, and idraw3.  ill soon be getting promotion and ill see how that works out, but just to let people know (who think ms paint blows), it truely doesnt.

[ptoing]

...but just to let people know (who think ms paint blows), it truely doesnt.

And as in how does it not blow? I am using Promotion since about 3 years now and I have to say pixelling in paint would make me feel like a quadriplegic. It plain and simple sucks ass. You can do anything in any tool at the end of the day, but in Promotion I can do stuff faster and way more efficient than you would ever be able to in Paint. I am sure same goes for stuff like Graphics Gale and even Photoshop, anything is faster and more efficient in terms of pixelling. Just tried Idraw, have to say that look pretty poor on first look, but still miles better than MSPaint.

Conclusion: From a purely objective standpoint MSPaint is not very well suited for pixelart.

[HalcyonDreamer]

 *Cough Cough* Maybe a little input  .
I know its not the greatest but maybe some C&C?
-------------------------------------------------------
I guess I should say this so I don't get shot down first post. I used Megaman sprites as a template for this work. I'm still having trouble with the outlines/ basic body structure, but I have been reading tutorials to help that. Would it be bad to feature these sprites in a game?

[Helm]

make something completely on your own and then you'll get help. This isn't a ripper forum. It's good that you said you used a megaman source, but please just post original art here.

[ndchristie]

idraw is great for its intuitiveness, all of the tools feel as though they are part of you, extensions of the hand.  promotion comes close to this, but not quite as much as Idraw does for me.

again, thers not enough to mspaint to really talk about it as a program.  ive found that for me, it is slow, unwieldly, and at times counter-intuitive.  photoshop is the same way for pixels i think.  it just doesnt feel as fluid as Idraw or promotion to me.  graphicsgale is just nuts i think, but thats because its square/rectangle tool is wonkers and i draw almost entirely with that (except for freehanding the general shapes)

also, what helm said about the sprites.  what good can we do you if you are using someone else's (mediocre) work?  there are a lot fo people here who can help you, but we need a genuine work to start from

[Ai]

I read the Wiki, but am confused as to why Pro Motion is so good for pixel art if I'm not supposed to use any of the tools. If I can't do that, isn't MS Paint pretty much as good?

If the wiki says that, the wiki is wrong. ProMotion is made specifically for creating 2d game art; the majority of which is still pixel art.

The philosophy behind minimizing tool usage is largely about simplifying your choices.. If your tools place 'accidental' pixels, you have then to concern yourself with cleaning them up. If you use more colors, you have to concern yourself with the shapes of more color regions. If you include more objects, you have to spend more time on composition, Larger canvas.. more time on refining the shape harmonics.
Everything takes more attention, the more of it you include.
That's why it's good to start out as small as you can, with as few colors as you can and a simple style.
For this moon image, it can be reduced to at least 16x16 without losing any of it's moon-ness, and it's perfectly possible to draw it in a mere 2 colors. I recommend it.
Here is an example based on your moon -- in 2,4, and 8 colors respectively, with individual stylistic choices matching the respective limitations.





Joseph: My main criteria for whether I can take a program seriously in it's usefulness for pixeling is, does it allow you to change to next/previous color in the palette easily?
MsPain doesn't. Photoshop AFAIK doesn't.
DeluxePaint does. Grafx2 does. Gimp does. Promotion does. IDraw probably does.

MsPain does have a reasonable bezier tool, but that is about all I can say for it; it's name is well earnt.

[robotriot]

Bah, I hate all this Photoshop bashing, most of the functions work really well for pixeling. I should write a little summary of how to use PS to pixel

[Helm]

exactly the thing: if you have to write a summary of how to downgrade ps to work pixels in it... then you need a pixel specific program. Enter pro motion, or at least graphics gale. Idraw wasn't my sort of thing at all and the only way I could see someone enjoying it would be because he's already used it for ages and has gotten comfy.

[tomster 785]

why are all you people saying what every pixel artist (good or bad) got into pixel art with is bad? MS paint rocks if you ask me, I went to PS, sucked, I went to graphics gale (thats good but I've lost the palette-_-) that was pretty good, but I just like MS paint more (for one it's good for it's resizeable canvas)

[robotriot]

I don't think it's much of an argument to say that when you have to alter a couple of things, it isn't worth even bothering working with Photoshop. It's really a very powerful tool. Anyway, I wrote a small "tutorial" on the subject: http://omr.planet-d.net/photoshop_pixel_tutorial.html

[ptoing]

Photoshop is not too bad for pixelart, I actually use it here at work for a few things that ProMo can't do (yet?) as alpha transparency.
But when it comes to straight no frills pixelling imo nothing is faster than ProMo for me, esp since I by now know basically every function and every shortcut of it by heart. In the end it's getting used to a lot, but ProMo is probably the tool with the most versatile features regarding pixelling.

[Helm]

why are all you people saying what every pixel artist (good or bad) got into pixel art with is bad?

Pixel art both predates and evolves without MSpaint. The origins of the artform lie in ancient home computers, and the rise of what we call pixelling today occured on home consoles like the SNES and computers like the Amiga500, with deluxe paint and variations of. All the active demoscenes which involved pixel art were much more on machines that aren't PCs. Atari, Amiga, c64. MSpaint is a recent tool in this historical framework, and not what most of the great pixel artists started out with.

[ptoing]

why are all you people saying what every pixel artist (good or bad) got into pixel art with is bad?

Pixel art both predates and evolves without MSpaint. The origins of the artform lie in ancient home computers, and the rise of what we call pixelling today occured on home consoles like the SNES and computers like the Amiga500, with deluxe paint and variations of. All the active demoscenes which involved pixel art were much more on machines that aren't PCs. Atari, Amiga, c64. MSpaint is a recent tool in this historical framework, and not what most of the great pixel artists started out with.

Word!

[robotriot]

Actually, MSPaint was released the same month as DPaint (November 1985). Which doesn't change the fact that it's crap of course

[ptoing]

Yeh, DPaint has nothing on the mighty MSPaint 

[ndchristie]

i can see whhy people dont like idraw, which i why i say that i like it because it works best for me.  right-click serves as an eyedropper (which is nice) and you can define all hotkeys (like many other programs but still nice)

the main selling point on idraw im is the selection tools, which are not as powerful as photoshop (no AA ability) but feel much better when i am using them.  I really only use 4 tools: the rectangle to draw, the pen to sketch, and the magic wand + rectangular marquis to change selections.  A program which doesnt make these really fluid just doesnt go with how i work.  GraphicsGale loses out imo because its selection tools (no shift/alt functions) and the fact that it cannot animate a sheet.  i hate using separate images per frame, and Idraw's custom animation preview for me is the best (especially if you have the later version that can save animation schemes)

Promotion i think is probably the most well-rounded program ive seen, it has many more things than Idraw, i just dont use it because its not as comfortable to me and i havent taken the time to explore it.

MS paint has nothing.  you need to select the eyedropper or go down and click on the palette every time you change your active or passive color.  you cant do anything while selections are drawn, and you cant make complex selections.  you cant save with a unique palette unless the file was opened with one already existing, and even this one you cannot alter except along the standard (often useless) schemes that it offers

[Gil]

GraphicsGale loses out imo because its selection tools (no shift/alt functions) and the fact that it cannot animate a sheet.

Graphicsgale can export sheets easily, but you can only do that at the end, because you can't import them afaik. That's enough for me. Oh, and I happen to love the selection tools, because right click dragging is a hotkey for selection, really quick to select something that way. I love the freehand lasso marquee tool too, I use that a lot. (all my animations are sort of based on rag dolling, to get the exact selections I need, I freehand lasso them)

The reason Photoshop will never compare is because it doesn't snap to individual pixels. You can't draw anything decent if you're not sure which pixel exactly you're clicking. Oh, and its preview thing sucks compared to others.

That said, Pro Motion gets me lost in all those functions. I haven't gotten into it, because I always see an abundance of stuff on my screen that I don't need. This is not argument against it though, just a quirk on my side... I'll give it a go again today...

[robotriot]

The reason Photoshop will never compare is because it doesn't snap to individual pixels. You can't draw anything decent if you're not sure which pixel exactly you're clicking. Oh, and its preview thing sucks compared to others.

Uhm, of course it does snap to pixels. It's a pixel-based program after all, what else should it do?

[Gil]

It really doesn't snap to pixels, check again...

Try drawing a perfect line with the line tool. You have to "guess" the center of a pixel or it produces junk. What I mean is that the cursor can be 50% on one pixel and 50% on another pixel and you don't know for sure which one will be filled. Snapping your tools to single pixels, as in every other pixel tool really is the way to go...

[robotriot]

Yea, that's true, but I hardly ever use the line tool. Pixeling works perfectly fine with the pencil tool.

[Gil]

Pencil tool doesn't snap either

[ptoing]

Yes it does, there is a setting that has to be set so it works, can't remember what it was tho. And as for making lines you can just click, shift-click with the pencil tool which works pretty well. I don't use ps and it's a bit bloated, but it is suited if dumbed down.

Don't bash a programm if you don't know it well enough.

[Gil]

I know it well enough. Can anyone point me to the pixel snap function? Everyone says it's there, but noone actually ever showed me where, until then, I stand by my case...

And using shift on the line tool only allows for 45° lines, what if I just want a random line?

[ptoing]

I am not talking about shift-click when using the line tool. Shows how good you know photoshop

Select the pencil tool click somewhere, hold down shift, click somewhere else = line from first to second clickpoint.

I am investigating the pixelsnap thing now.

[robotriot]

There are snap to pixel options for the rounded rectangle tools for example, I don't know any for the pencil tool though. Yet still, you can pixel perfectly fine with it, there's a crosshair in the middle of the square area representing the pixel, this defines where the pixel is being put. Concerning drawing lines with the pencil tool: just keep SHIFT pressed and click anywhere, this will draw a line between your current position and the last one you used.

[ptoing]

And make sure you have no opacity on your brush set on pressure, that would fuck up as well if you are in indexed more quite badly.

[Feron]

Photoshop, whilst not built for pixel-art, handles it very well.  Its the only program I use.  If you want hotkeys/shortcuts, go EDIT > Keyboard Shortcuts.  There is where you can customise everything.  Pencil tool, fill tools, color /contrast adjustment tools are the only tools i really use. 

[Helm]

just the last few posts discussing how ps snaps to the pixel grid is enough example of what I was talking about before. If you have to do all these things just to get a snappy single pixel... well.

I have extensive experience with psp and pixelling, back at 3-4-5-6 versions, and up to about there it was pretty ok. Less dumbing down to do, a nifty color-replacer tool, easy to make dither brushes... pretty good indexing. Not bad.

[Gil]

Paint Shop Pro 6 was decent for pixeling yes, and it came bundled with Animation Shop 3, which was pretty good (though it had some dumb dirty compression for animations that kept coming up on mine, even if I turned it off). I just started using GG because it was easier and bundled the functions in one program (and animation previews of course).

And yeah, I agree with Helm, even if you do find a way to get PhotoShop set up correctly, it's too much hassle. Anyway, even if you get all that stuff right, how are PhotoShop's animation skills? I've seen the tools are there, but I never used those...

[ndchristie]

nearly every tool in photoshop thta yould need to pixel with can be set to snap with a a click or two right on the main interface.  if you dont like going through all that, just make a palette and set it to indexed color.  its a bit rigid, but indexed color actually does make photoshop somewhat decent for pixelart, though when freeware exists that is so much easier to use, why would you bother with a $400-1000 program series like PS?

[ptoing]

yeh, for just pixelart ps would be a bit stupid.

[niceidiot]

I use Photoshop, because it is what I have, and cost me $$$.  Why is Photoshop stupid?  It is because it is overkill?  I would like to know the features I am missing using photoshop. 

I can get the ball rolling, Photoshop has no elegant palette handling.  What else!  I must own the ultimate pixel-pushing software! 

[Gil]

nearly every tool in photoshop thta yould need to pixel with can be set to snap with a a click or two right on the main interface.

Nope you can't. Seriously, show me how, it's impossible...

[Helm]

I use Photoshop, because it is what I have, and cost me $$$.  Why is Photoshop stupid?  It is because it is overkill?  I would like to know the features I am missing using photoshop.

well... let's see. no smart ramping. no dither patterns on it's own. no active color replacement. No active palette adjustment. No going up and down a palette slot with shortcut keys like [ ].  No useful paint modes like darken/lighten or tint. No exact bitdepth control (not just 16,8,indexed but 3,3,3 if you want for example). No animbrush. Is that enough?


You're searching for the ultimate pixelling program: Cosmigo ProMotion. There you go.

[Frychiko]

I use Photoshop, because it is what I have, and cost me $$$.  Why is Photoshop stupid?  It is because it is overkill?  I would like to know the features I am missing using photoshop. 

I can get the ball rolling, Photoshop has no elegant palette handling.  What else!  I must own the ultimate pixel-pushing software! 

Animation is VERY painful in Photoshop (Imageready or CS2 built-in).

[HalcyonDreamer]

It looks much more sucky    but it is my own work  . C&C please, I could REALLY use the help, ANY comments welcome as long as they contribute to me becoming a better pixel artist.

[ptoing]

I use Photoshop, because it is what I have, and cost me $$$.  Why is Photoshop stupid?  It is because it is overkill?  I would like to know the features I am missing using photoshop. 

I can get the ball rolling, Photoshop has no elegant palette handling.  What else!  I must own the ultimate pixel-pushing software! 

I meant buying ps just for pixeling would be stupid, I guess you do other stuff with it as well.
And what Helm said.

[Joo]

My god those smurfs are scary...
Welcome to the forum. You're literate too! 
Tbh i think those sprites are pretty cool, even if they are sort of ripped.. ^^