AuthorTopic: why should we listen to tocky  (Read 9248 times)

Offline tocky

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 503
  • Karma: +0/-1
  • doublepostokrates
    • View Profile
    • my blog

why should we listen to tocky

on: February 08, 2015, 09:17:56 pm
i didnt start this thread exactly, ptoing split it from this other thread: http://wayofthepixel.net/index.php?topic=17784.0 )

edit:
two conversations with my friend clay
http://evilbaboons.blogspot.com.au/2015/02/clay.html
http://evilbaboons.blogspot.com.au/2015/02/clay-again.html

(im gonna double post here, even though i ve been told not to,  because it matters to me the difference between two parts of the same text and two different texts. my prose is meandering and noone will read this post if it just continues the previous one. different idea, different url. it has been 8 hours since that last post and noone has replied. this tocky is a different person than the tocky who wrote that other post -for instance i went to a friends place and played d&d since then - and we should appreciate my right to be a different tocky sometimes so long as it doesnt get to the point where all posts are tocky. tocky is an ACCELERATIONIST and a THREAD NECROMANCER and a HERETIC SJW-BUT-FOR-COLOR )

i tell you i am not a warrior: i am a rogue and a wizard and a cleric. i support social justice wizards and social justice rogues. i do not wish to fight.

(i hate killing spiders but i'll kill a mosquito. and i'll kill a spider if it comes after me. most spiders are soft-bodies really and not hard-bodies as we are told)

so yeah: color spaces hard to understand, color schemes not. because we choose our own color schemes but color spaces have to be totally defined - we're talking, we have chosen to talk, preferably about selective color spaces like the DAWNBRINGER PALETTE and not ambiguos ones, like the RGB space - schemes for specific purposes, spaces for all-purposes. we get these colors by dithering , a way of cheating to interpolate dissenting symbols into one message. we can do this with pixels and we can do it with text.

(i tell you: this pixel board has too much moderation because it is moderated in a pixel way - tigs too, being moderated in a game way. accept that this is a different post, a different idea. tigs and pixelation are the same, more the same than ever. pixelation should be grey and orange and not blue and white like tigs is - because im crazy and if it looks the same it is the same )

why dawnbringer though and not some other pixel artist? each image has its own palette, some selection smaller than the total RGB space.

so like: why use a flat lerp funtion and not a meandering one that goes into weird colors we would not usually consider part of the ramp? why not use some weird cubic curve or whatever, an n-cubic curve, instead of a flat lerp between the two most-distant colors on our ramp?

(pixels being ordered sets of color, forums being ordered sets of text. words are pixels too. two different-color pixels being differently-ordered than a different thing than one big fat pixel - the thing is CONTRAST. we are living in an environment of low contrast. )

HELM and CURE and DAWNBRINGER have even shown us that we should do this in analysis of their own OLD GODS such as the CHAOS ENGINE.

i tell you the dawnbringer pallete is too C64, too grey (and thus too dull and neutral) and too naturalistic for the purposes of most games i would want to make. when arne tells us we dont need purple very much because there is not much purple in nature, he is wrong, because we are not describing the natue of our own planet but the nature of ARCADE GAMES, which do use lots of purple. we want a palette that UNDERSTANDS THE SYMBOLIC MEANING OF THE COLOR PURPLE, like why this color? is it for wine and bruises and omens and dark magicks? yes and no. they can be any color.

this is ooze: the fabled color that rickwell the slimeomancer tells us of though he does not know it, he ventures to the kingdom of the clouds to seek it

so what's your fav color? it matters not for one second, but go with me for a second.

you know how the orange box in the valve editor is orange? i also use orange for the same purpose:

like, you open a new processing sketch and it asks you: what single color should the background be? and this is a false question because you can make it a gradient, you can make it change over time. we are tied to the no-time because we post static images here. but all processing sketches dream to be something more than just one color repeated over time.

the color i choose is TOCKY ORANGE, which is 200,100,0. why? multiples of 100 are easy to remember. 200,100,0 is a good color for this purpose: i dont have to name it in my code because i can simply look at the number and go, oh, that's my orange. but here im still treating color as a function of RED and BLUE, but we need not do this. in the HUE spaces we are told that color is a wheel, than no primary color are more primary than any others.

( what color is 100,200,0 then? i do not know because i havent looked it up and i havent remembered it. this is the ANTI-TOCKY-GREENRED and who will advocate for that color? not tocky: and i ask you what is your favourite color but do not tell me dawnbringer ever again )

so: TOCKY ORANGE. it's not neutral or naturalistic or grey. it's bright. it stands out against most other colors. it is HIGH CONTRAST.

an under-examined premise of color schemes is that they should be LOW CONTRAST: for any two colors that we cannot ramp between, we should add some color that lets us ramp between them.

why do this? will it muddy our colors? yes it will. will it make us tend towards the grey, of course it will. sometimes we are allowed WARM GREYS and COOL GREYS but this does not solve the problem enough. we also need WARM ORANGES and COOL ORANGES, as well, for specialised uses in the ORANGE SPACE.

the RGB space doesnt even believe in orange: it believes in red and green and blue.

(what do we do when all posts are TOCKY? we can tell tocky to shut up, but this is only for today. later there will be LESS TOCKY, and this is a shame, because noone else is saying what all these tockies are saying, even if we believe we have heard this message before )

we dont need to be told to listen to HELM because we have been listening to helm for something like 15 years. he is right but he is not the only right. HELM teaches us to use every color everwhere, PTOING teaches us all colors are good, ILKKE teaches us how to pixel as magentlemen, DAWNBRINGER teaches us we can blend blue and orange to get grey, and TOCKY can teach us all these things and more.

we choose our own gods.

 what solutions are there? we can BAN TOCKY, we can TELL TOCKY TO GO AWAY, or worse, we can TELL TOCKY HE IS WRONG: this is obliteration, anwe should allow tocky to blit his feelings onto our screens. because he will tell us what others will not.

(WHAT DOES HE MEAN TOO MUCH MODERATION? WHAT AN INSULT? DOES HE NOT FEAR GOD)



(WHAT DOES HE MEAN TOO MUCH MODERATION? WHAT AN INSULT? DOES HE NOT FEAR GOD)

TOCKY IS NOT THE NOISE I TELL YOU HE IS THE SINGLE. WE CAN BRING THE DAWN, BUT WE SHOULD BRING ALL OTHER TIMES AS WELL

i tell you: the dawnbringer palette is a blight upon right-thinking persons. not because it is bad but because it is canonical. it teaches us not to write our own palettes.

these forums are not something awful and should not resemble it - so yeah, the moderation here is bad because it is too good. its designed for arguing with trolls about the monad and not for talking about the pixel

i need to repeat this message. what i tell you n times is true. a moderation policy that does not allow the heretic TOCKY but does allow that fine hero SUPERB JOE is not GOOD MODERATION. ask yourself what it means to be moderate

games are supposed to have social justice in them. this is a message that should be heard.

EVERY PIXEL AND NOT-ALL-PIXELS is not the same message. they are counter-messages. each book should have its antibook, BORGES teaches us this.


« Last Edit: February 14, 2015, 07:06:11 am by tocky »

Offline ptoing

  • 0101
  • ****
  • Posts: 3063
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • variegated quadrangle arranger
    • the_ptoing
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/2191.htm
    • View Profile
    • Perpetually inactive website

Re: Split from fxokz's thread

Reply #1 on: February 08, 2015, 09:41:20 pm
I suggest not to choose any gods.

The things you say Helm or I or whoever teaches is not like those are the only things we could say make sense. I agree with Helm that optimising colour usage and blend where it makes sense is good. And I am sure he agrees with me that every colour is usable given the right context.

Also there might be some false choises here in how we can deal with you. I do not want to ban you, at least I do not feel like I have to atm. As long as you keep this stuff in the general section and don't derail critique threads in the pixel forum for example. I also do not want to tell you to shut up, but I would say if you can, maybe write this stuff down and wait a bit before you post it and read over it later and see what of it makes sense. A lot of it does not really make much sense to me at all. It just seems like ramblings.

You stated you have manic-depression. Are you seeking help for this? Maybe you should, if you at all can. I don't know. But this kinda rambling in general does not work well on forums, because in general people will not be able to follow your train of thought and as such there will be mostly confusion. Some of the points you are making I get (I think), but again, most of it is very rambly and incoherent. You seem to be aware of this. If you are aware that most people probably will not read and/or understand what you write or it will just derail threads, why do you do it. Does not seem like the polite thing to do to me.

So yeah, if you are at all able to reflect a bit more about the things you write (since you seem to be overstating a long of things, like the stuff about the "OLD GODS". I know that at least Helm does not share that sentiment. It's more about looking at what others did that worked and take out the things from it that work for you.) and try to write a bit more understandably. I, and I am sure many others, would greatly appreciate that. Because at the end of the day what is the point of communication without understanding?
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline tocky

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 503
  • Karma: +0/-1
  • doublepostokrates
    • View Profile
    • my blog

Re: Split from fxokz's thread

Reply #2 on: February 08, 2015, 09:44:37 pm
"maybe write this stuff down and wait a bit before you post it and read over it later and see what of it makes sense"
"seek help"

a lot of people are telling me this these days. they are wrong. i have sought help and i have found it and it is this:

i have read all of the books and im still right.

I AM WILLING TO CONSIDER THAT OTHERS MAY BE WRONG. I AM AT LEAST AS RIGHT AS THEY ARE

i learned this reading the book MAYBE THE OTHER GUY IS WRONG,  by moyd theywrongerson (fictional)

 i tell you most people are crazy and do not know it. they are not taught to seek help, and i am. i have found how to help myself. and it is this: acceleration, feminism, rambling, advocation for the devil, and being heard nevertheless. self-treatment and self-moderation this is good because it exposes the BARE METAL.

i have no friends here who will back me up, and so i will have to be my own friends

so like: give me back the thread that crow has closed so i can finish writing it. it is my thesis. pin it and make me a mod. you do not have to do these things but you can consider them. i ramble the way HELM taught me to ramble bc words are pixels too, and easier to write
« Last Edit: February 09, 2015, 05:27:49 am by tocky »

Offline ptoing

  • 0101
  • ****
  • Posts: 3063
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • variegated quadrangle arranger
    • the_ptoing
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/2191.htm
    • View Profile
    • Perpetually inactive website

Re: Split from fxokz's thread

Reply #3 on: February 08, 2015, 09:49:03 pm
What are you talking about. Do not compare pixelation with tigs like that. Superb Joe would get banned here pretty quickly. Did you intend to post that on tigs but posted it here? I don't know.

About the Dawnbringer palette and premade palettes in general. I agree that there is more to learn from making your own palettes, but it is also helpful to work in restricted sets (because that is one less thing to think about), but I personally prefer old system specs/palettes to ones people just made now for the fun of it.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline tocky

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 503
  • Karma: +0/-1
  • doublepostokrates
    • View Profile
    • my blog

Re: Split from fxokz's thread

Reply #4 on: February 08, 2015, 09:52:40 pm
yes and no. these two forums are teh same: they look the same and all the devils are here. human hugs and goblins of the game industry. if we have a thread for it we pretend we do not need to speak about it everywhere so the message isnt lost.

im writing here because they blocked me on tigs today, just for one day: this is bad because it isnt net neutrality. the neutral POV is not all, points of view, it is the middle view and the shortest path. it is not radical or conservative enough. if i post it hear and there, both, i wont be blocked on both sites, and it will be heard.

people dont want to listen to me when i tell them are crazy. but crazy peopel at the very least CAN know their own minds better than you do. and the pixel art community is crazy. why pixels in 2015? because they matter. because they are the most basic blocks that we build everything with.

"what are you talking about" is a message i hear a lot also: i tell you, read me again. i have told you what im telling you.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2015, 10:00:13 pm by tocky »

Offline ptoing

  • 0101
  • ****
  • Posts: 3063
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • variegated quadrangle arranger
    • the_ptoing
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/2191.htm
    • View Profile
    • Perpetually inactive website

Re: Split from fxokz's thread

Reply #5 on: February 08, 2015, 10:01:04 pm
This has nothing to do with net neutrality (or freedom of speech for that matter). Forums like this are privately run and while you can write whatever you want, laws like the 1st ammendment do not protect you from having your stuff blocked or you getting banned.

And net neutrality is simply about the internet being classified as a public utility which means that private coorporations can not shit all over the consumers.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline tocky

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 503
  • Karma: +0/-1
  • doublepostokrates
    • View Profile
    • my blog

Re: Split from fxokz's thread

Reply #6 on: February 08, 2015, 10:04:02 pm
http://dndwithpornstars.blogspot.com.au/search?q=difficult
(you might have to click on this twice, if it takes you to zak's blogfront and not to a search for 'difficult')

its teh same thing, im telling you this. it doesnt matter if we talk about google and yahoo or your cable providers or helm and ptoing: the signal is the message. even the noise is the message.

net neutality is a message that cannot be obscured, because if the cable provider shits you up you'll fine another freer service on which you can be heard

im sorry to ramble. im sorry to talk about net neutrality and how it relates to choosing colors. but these things are pixels too. they are atomic. and they are extensible. and they form a canon, and we should throw it away, teh way we should throw away teh 70s monster manual and the diagnostic and statistic manual. because we are tired of diagnostics and statistics, they do not serve us. they serve the meat lawyers. and we have to become meat lawyers to argue against it. and the book will still exist even if we throw it away



"About the Dawnbringer palette and premade palettes in general. I agree that there is more to learn from making your own palettes, but it is also helpful to work in restricted sets (because that is one less thing to think about), but I personally prefer old system specs/palettes to ones people just made now for the fun of it."

this is a good message, the ptoing message. i have heard it many times before. i have considered whetehr to use ptioing or pepto or ilkke or whatever. not most people have. noone uses tocky - or at least noone listens to tocky. the goblins of teh game industry will take whatever they please. it is a pleasure economy for them, buut it is a knowledge economy for me. there are people who i would not recommend these forums to but who nevertheless would get good use from them. its just we refuse to listen to each of each of each of us
« Last Edit: February 08, 2015, 11:52:05 pm by PixelPiledriver »

Offline ptoing

  • 0101
  • ****
  • Posts: 3063
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • variegated quadrangle arranger
    • the_ptoing
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/2191.htm
    • View Profile
    • Perpetually inactive website

Re: Split from fxokz's thread

Reply #7 on: February 08, 2015, 10:17:24 pm
About other things being "pixels", they are not, at least not in any real sense. Words are not pixels, words are words. You could say that pixels are the letters of pixelart and clusters are words, and so on. But that does not really mean much apart from being a nice analogy.

The different between the pepto and my c64 palette (which is just a lighter version of the pepto one) is nothing else but a little twiddle on the brightness knob on your C64 monitor or TV set. It is about what you personally find more pleasant.

What I will leave you with now is this: Please do not doublepost this much, you can edit your posts if no one else has posted in the meantime.
Do not derail discussions with topics that have nothing to do with them (you might think they have, but this is where I ask you to reflect a bit more and not treat analogies as anything but analogies.)
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline tocky

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 503
  • Karma: +0/-1
  • doublepostokrates
    • View Profile
    • my blog

Re: why we should listen to tocky

Reply #8 on: February 08, 2015, 10:28:18 pm
what im saying is that words are analogous to pixels: they are a symbolic palette and a 2d ordered set of discrete elements. roguelikes are the pixels of games, words are the pixels of thought : they are discrete spaces and not continuus. and so we can talk about puns and lyric poetry, and pun robots on twitter, and these things are related. this is what hte service is for, we are in the service of the pixels, not of the gods. this is the monad, and mcc will teach ur about the MONAD which is the PIXEL which is the GENDER. if we are unwilling to consider whether these things could be, they could be otherwise.

 we cannot dream of things we have not known already



and now i will talk about sappho:

why? sappho is a lesbian, sappho is bare metal, sappho understands estrangement. she is an outsider among outsiders. she will recline nude on the rocks, maddened by the dreams of the dead god, dream of things we can not think, and sing them for us though they be hard to hear. she will talk about men instead of women because that is the style to which we are acustomed. we do not have to listen to lesbians to listen to sappho, and we do not have to listen to sappho, and in at least in an abstract way all of us are lesbians because all of us are sappho. we can thread necromance sappho because she left us writings. we can argue with sappho because even though she is the only lesbian she can hardly have been the first. she is a voice that stands for people who have no voice in the argument.

and though i am not truly sappho i can recombine the sappho message with other messages to create the new meme, the new flesh. she lives in all of us.

why this word 'lesbians': because of an isle in greece. why 'sapphic'? in the style of sappho. what does any of this have to do with women? i tell you that it does.

i will now wait for the voice, not of silence but of dissent. because i will not be silent but i will hear dissent. who should we be if not sappho? should we be sisyphus? should we be plato? we can not be because he was murdered and he left no writngs, but we can be socrates. we can be presocratic: after all are we not waters? we can be stoic: after all, why not throw away the cup even if we like it. jake the dog teaches us this, but so does epictetes, adventure time has its enchiridion but so does epictetes: jake the dog speaks it in homage to him

fuck aristotle tbqh, we will need the old gods and teh new, the heretics and the apologists

 i have been listening to helm and ptiong for fifteen eyars but noone ever listend to me
« Last Edit: February 08, 2015, 11:52:37 pm by PixelPiledriver »

Offline Joe

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 298
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile

Re: why we should listen to tocky

Reply #9 on: February 08, 2015, 10:50:56 pm
Suppose one person tells you you aren't making sense. If they have read your words carefully, and considered them, but not derived any sense from them, it's on you to communicate better. But perhaps they are too stupid to comprehend.

Then suppose everyone tells you you aren't making sense. From a logical standpoint that would imply either that everyone is stupid, or you aren't communicating effectively.

I will say this. I do not know what kind of drugs you are using, or if you are using any at all, but your words are disorganized and incoherent. Your post history shows you are capable of very clear expression.

One of my sisters has manic depression. It does not absolve her of responsibility her your actions. I'm sure you're still capable of consideration of others, so consider the possibility that all these words are confusing people, not enlightening them. Your behavior is irrational, and right now it is less than civil.

You have a right to express your voice. But most forums have rules, like rule number one here, and those rules provide the foundation for rich discussion.

Helm's thread is titled ramble, but I suspect that's a product of his own modesty. From what I can discern, he is the kind of person that thinks about his choice of words very carefully—and chooses them deliberately. It's possible that all of his ideas are completely wrong, even insane, but everyone understands him clearly. You on the other hand might be completely right and onto the next pixel paradigm shift, but no one can understand you. The difference is clear communication.

I'm sure you know what noise-to-signal ratio is. Right now there is too much noise—too many extraneous words, and Lewis Carroll-like repeated expressions and plays on words—to pick up a coherent signal from you.

It's up to you, but I highly recommend you take a healthy break from the internet, to collect your thoughts and ground yourself in reality. I imagine the mods here have finite patience, and I don't see this current trend ending well.