AuthorTopic: UPDATE: Pterodactyl Mobile Suit Design ~ OCTO FORCE  (Read 18455 times)

Offline thoughtmachine

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- You have a bunch of outlines on the wings that don't connect which looks very odd.

Thanx I never noticed the harsh lines. I fixed it.




- Reduce the resolution, you're working with a lot of pixels.

I know its easier, but challenge is worth the effort.

- Focus on getting a solid base shape and anatomy first.

I did , but I missed a few things.


- You also need to get a better palette, it lacks contrast and you have too many colors.
- Try to avoid gradients as much as you can, because it makes it look very cheap.

Actually, if you read back to my earlier posts...I stated "when it is done, I will be using the same coloring techniques used by Square when they did (the guardian boss) in Chrono Trigger."
http://cdn.wikimg.net/strategywiki/images/c/cf/CT_monster_Guardian.png
Disclaimer: Image is owned by Square Enix and is hosted by http://strategywiki.org


- As others have pointed out, it's very stiff! Look at more references. Try breaking up those straight lines.

I'm on it. That is my next goal.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2015, 04:36:07 pm by thoughtmachine »
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Offline thoughtmachine

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UPDATE: The Pterodactyl Mobile Suit ~ OCTO FORCE

Reply #21 on: February 05, 2015, 04:37:39 pm
@EVERYONE:

Keep the advice coming guys your advise is a lot of help.

This isn't my first boat, but this is my first robot.
So please be patient with me and stick around.
I hope to impress all of you when it is competed.



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Offline Seiseki

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- You also need to get a better palette, it lacks contrast and you have too many colors.
- Try to avoid gradients as much as you can, because it makes it look very cheap.

Actually, if you read back to my earlier posts...I stated "when it is done, I will be using the same coloring techniques used by Square when they did (the guardian boss) in Chrono Trigger."
http://cdn.wikimg.net/strategywiki/images/c/cf/CT_monster_Guardian.png
Disclaimer: Image is owned by Square Enix and is hosted by http://strategywiki.org

But, that's the entire process of making it..
You don't draw something and then as the last step change all the shading/color and call it done.

You're also not gonna be able to pull off the shading on a whim, you need to study and practice a lot.
What is most important is having an understanding of what you are doing and how shading works, otherwise you'll be drawing something just hoping that it will turn out alright. (I used to do this a lot)
The style your aiming for is very demanding on the artist because it uses many colors, lots of round shapes with soft shading, especially so at a higher resolution.

You also need a better understanding of pixel art basics before you can tackle this. Learning about banding, jaggies, clusters, etc. I'm not saying this to demotivate you, I'm saying it because you need to be realistic if you want to achieve your goal.

The Monster Guardian on strategywiki.org has been compressed and has the wrong contrast and pixel size, so you shouldn't look at it as a reference.
Here is a 1:1 pixel-scale version.

Offline thoughtmachine

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Re: UPDATE: Pterodactyl Mobile Suit Design ~ OCTO FORCE

Reply #23 on: February 05, 2015, 07:42:26 pm
@Seiseki

These are some of my older works.
http://manufacturedart.blogspot.com/p/2d-cgi.html
Could you take a look at those and let me know what you think?
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Offline Seiseki

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Re: UPDATE: Pterodactyl Mobile Suit Design ~ OCTO FORCE

Reply #24 on: February 05, 2015, 08:24:00 pm
Most of the things you have there look very inconsistent when it comes to the shading.
The perspective is really strange for the ortographic drawings. Using gradients is not a good substitute for shading.
The lines are very uneven and jaggy.

You need to train your eye and see how things look, don't just draw what you think they look like.

Start drawing using only 4 colors, it's a great practice to get a feel for shapes.
Don't draw using lines, draw using blotches/clusters of colors. It's really important to have a good contrast palette when you're doing this, because otherwise it will look flat.

I forgot to link to this:
http://www.pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11299

Offline thoughtmachine

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Re: UPDATE: Pterodactyl Mobile Suit Design ~ OCTO FORCE

Reply #25 on: February 05, 2015, 11:34:16 pm
Most of the things you have there look very inconsistent when it comes to the shading.
The perspective is really strange for the ortographic drawings. Using gradients is not a good substitute for shading.
The lines are very uneven and jaggy.

You need to train your eye and see how things look, don't just draw what you think they look like.

Start drawing using only 4 colors, it's a great practice to get a feel for shapes.
Don't draw using lines, draw using blotches/clusters of colors. It's really important to have a good contrast palette when you're doing this, because otherwise it will look flat.

I forgot to link to this:
http://www.pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11299

I have that blink already, but I have not taken the time to read that tutorial.
I have gone through several other tutorials already, but so many of them seem inconsistent and incomplete.

thank you for the tips
Check out our upcoming game:
Octo Force: The Paradigm Experiment
http://gamejolt.com/games/adventure/octo-force-the-paradigm-experiment/30126/
Demo available at site!

Offline wzl

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Re: UPDATE: Pterodactyl Mobile Suit Design ~ OCTO FORCE

Reply #26 on: February 06, 2015, 12:12:33 am
I doubt you will ever find a consistent and complete guide on any art topic. There are always different point of views and receptions if it comes to that.
The important thing is that you understand the concepts and the reasoning behind them and learn from what is trying to be taught. How you apply it is up to you.

Offline thoughtmachine

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Re: UPDATE: Pterodactyl Mobile Suit Design ~ OCTO FORCE

Reply #27 on: February 06, 2015, 12:38:47 am
I doubt you will ever find a consistent and complete guide on any art topic. There are always different point of views and receptions if it comes to that.
The important thing is that you understand the concepts and the reasoning behind them and learn from what is trying to be taught. How you apply it is up to you.

thanx for that insight bit.
It makes sense I suppose.
Check out our upcoming game:
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http://gamejolt.com/games/adventure/octo-force-the-paradigm-experiment/30126/
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Offline LD

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Re: UPDATE: Pterodactyl Mobile Suit Design ~ OCTO FORCE

Reply #28 on: February 06, 2015, 03:46:29 am
In most of what I've seen in the topic, and the link you gave with some of your earlier work, it's just a lot of drawn lines and gradients. I've seen quite a bit of solid advice here, and I feel like you have ignored a lot of it. I'm no expert when it comes to art, but I you really should try starting with a smaller size and a simpler color palette, so you are getting more practice on the pixel level.

You claim that the challenge of working on a larger scale is worth it, but I think right now the larger scale is just causing you to use line tools and gradients to get a relatively cheap and simple looking art style. I quickly scaled down your image to 25% and recolored it a bit using just 8 colors. It doesn't look great, but it's a pretty rough edit, and it's clear that even with a much smaller scale, you don't really lose much of the detail you've included. I would recommend at least shrinking to 50% size for now so you can concentrate more on how it looks at the pixel scale (it is "pixel art" after all ;))


I'm non expert on this, but it's just my opinion.

Offline thoughtmachine

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Re: UPDATE: Pterodactyl Mobile Suit Design ~ OCTO FORCE

Reply #29 on: February 06, 2015, 01:37:14 pm
In most of what I've seen in the topic, and the link you gave with some of your earlier work, it's just a lot of drawn lines and gradients. I've seen quite a bit of solid advice here, and I feel like you have ignored a lot of it.
You claim that the challenge of working on a larger scale is worth it,.....

You are being way too judgmental and you are making to many derogative assumptions about me.

I'm not an expert on this, and it's just my opinion. But you need to back off.


Realize the illegitimacy of what you are claiming.

My earlier works on that blog were made last year before I came to this forum. Therefore, they are going to be below the high standards of this forum. I am not going to spend the next 3 to 6 months redoing them to satisfy the self proclaimed experts in this forum. I have other priorities. But--realize--that does not mean I did not listen to the advice given in this forum.

Now, as far as the Pterodactyl is concerned, I don't have obligations to any of you.
I have a right to stick to what I see as a high enough standard of quality in my art.
Again, that does not mean I did not listen to the advice given in this forum.



I realize that some of you live to improve the techniques of making pixel art and that is fine.
But let's not lose sight of what art is and is not.

Art is supposed to be imperfect.
By its very definition art is imperfect.
There are no standards when it comes to art.
There is no high standard or low standard in art.

The child who scribbles on scrap paper is just as artistic as the man or woman who uses a fine paint brush on penicillin. However, the artist who uses a laser and a microscope to ensure a high level of accuracy in his or her art is no longer an artist.



I am in the business of making video games.
In the world of making computer games, most of the games that were sold and made millions did not have art that was perfect under a microscope.

Chronotrigger and Secret of Mana are two of the most highly praised games when it comes to art. However, back when they became mega hits--Final Fantasy, Mario, and Zelda were clunky. And all of those games sold more units and have made more sequels than Chronotrigger and Secret of Mana, combined. And the same can be said for Metroid, Contra, Ninja Gaiden and many, many other games that sold more units than Chronotrigger and Secret of Mana.

The fact that a) Secret of Mana is a spin off of Final Fantasy and b) Chronotrigger was made by the same company is supports my theory that great things can come from imperfect art and clunky beginnings.


In the world of business you always come to a point when you decide that the amount of quality is high enough to satisfy the market. The fact that the quality might not satisfy some critics is irrelevant. The critics aren't in business to make money by applying their art. The critics are in business to criticize art they believe doesn't live up their personal standards.

If we return to an earlier point in this post where we discussed the imperfections in The Transformers and Gundam Wing transformations we have to realize that these very successful people decided to fall short of what some idealists argue 'would have been a higher standard'. While I am one of those idealists, I too am a business person and I have to put my ideals aside to make money.

If the very successful artists behind Final Fantasy, Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Contra, Ninja Gaiden, The Transformers, and Mobile Suit Gundam Series can make millions with imperfect art, I know that I can at least make a decent living.



Having said all of that I am grateful for the advise and wisdom that has come from the years that all of you have put into improving your art techniques.

Myself I am aiming to improve the techniques in my art, because I want an edge.

But that does not mean that I am going to spend the next 5 years in a bunk job so I can appease the high standards of the self proclaimed experts and critics in this forum who (regardless of how great and perfect their art looks under a microscope) have most likely never shifted their priorities long enough to make a living with their art.

I will continue to come here to get advice, but I will not come here and listen to people (who have most likely never successfully applied their art to make a decent living) tell me that I am wrong from not doing exactly what they believe is correct, as if they are universally recognized as Gods in the world of art.


Before any of you try to correct my perspective, consider this:

Many of you purchased and enjoyed games like Mario, Zelda, Metriod, Contra, and Ninja Gaiden. Many of you purchased and enjoyed The Transformers and the Mobile Suit Gundam Series.

Did the imperfections in their art stop you from buying and enjoying those products? No it did not. And the same is true for the rest of the market.

Art is art. Art is not meant to perfect. Art does not have standards. Art is not science.

The child who scribbles on scrap paper is just as artistic as the man or woman who uses a fine paint brush on penicillin. However, the artist who uses a laser and a microscope to ensure a high level of accuracy in his or her art is no longer an artist.


Lastly...
Why did I come to this forum, to gain some advice. And I have done that.
Why did you come to this forum? So you can give advice and you have done that.
We have both done what we came to do. I am satisfied with that.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2015, 03:40:56 pm by thoughtmachine »
Check out our upcoming game:
Octo Force: The Paradigm Experiment
http://gamejolt.com/games/adventure/octo-force-the-paradigm-experiment/30126/
Demo available at site!