AuthorTopic: UPDATE: Pterodactyl Mobile Suit Design ~ OCTO FORCE  (Read 18458 times)

Offline thoughtmachine

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Re: Pterodactyl Mobile Suit design ~ OCTO FORCE

Reply #10 on: February 02, 2015, 05:03:46 pm

There are no visible joints.  At first glance it seems to stand stiff on these legs and wouldn't be able to move them.  Hip and knee joints would improve this. There is also no clear ankle/foot definition which would help as well, though on the forward facing angle those might be harder to define.

Yeah I totally agree, but I am not sure how to do that with a front perspective.


The inconsistency in shading style between the upper body/arms and the legs and head stand out really poignantly.  If you can manage to bring them together so they don't feel like they are created differently it will bring some cohesion to the piece as well.

I will deal with that after I get the legs properly formed.

It's really hard for me to do form, color, and shade one piece and then do another piece and make them match.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2015, 05:07:51 pm by thoughtmachine »
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Offline Johasu

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Re: Pterodactyl Mobile Suit design ~ OCTO FORCE

Reply #11 on: February 02, 2015, 05:15:38 pm
I don't mean to sound like a dick, but I asked about my car and you offered advice about my boat, my house, and my girlfriends attitude.
It's really hard for me to do form, color, and shade one piece and then do another piece and make them match.
To complete your analogy, you asked about your life and then focused on your car.  I pointed out that you had more than the car to worry about and gave you pointers one what to do about the entire set of problems.
This all comes from practice and is why I mention that you should work on one small piece until you have a firmer grasp of form, color, and shading and then extend your piece or work on a large piece from there.
Ideally you wouldn't begin with such a large composition and you would focus on the fundamentals that are required to accomplish your goal rather than trying to get it to look right first and then backwards working your way towards securing those fundamentals.

I started out this way.  Took a lot of work and rework to learn that I should discard some of my ideas about how to go about creating a piece and adopt new ones even if they seemed really difficult.  Most of the things one tries in the beginning are actually bad for your art and the process of making it.  In the end it's all about practice practice practice though so keep going.

I really recommend that you work on a small portion of it and then move forward.
For knee and hip joints in robots look online at big robots.  Zords from power rangers, Transformers, and Gundams all have this sort of blocky shape to them.  They would be good examples of things to try.
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Offline thoughtmachine

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Re: Pterodactyl Mobile Suit design ~ OCTO FORCE

Reply #12 on: February 02, 2015, 05:26:28 pm
To complete your analogy, you asked about your life and then focused on your car.  I pointed out that you had more than the car to worry about and gave you pointers one what to do about the entire set of problems.

haha
yeah I know. its all good.


okay.... I shortened the legs by 6 pixels and added two sets of joints




EDIT:
Actaully I used gundam wing mechas as a reference for my robot.
if you wouldn't mind, take a look at my portfolio at this site....

http://manufacturedart.blogspot.com/p/2d-cgi.html

....and rate my overall production values.
I am interested to know what you think.


Ideally you wouldn't begin with such a large composition and you would focus on the fundamentals that are required to accomplish your goal rather than trying to get it to look right first and then backwards working your way towards securing those fundamentals.

God, that makes so much more sense than what I did with this robot.


I started out this way.  Took a lot of work and rework to learn that I should discard some of my ideas about how to go about creating a piece and adopt new ones even if they seemed really difficult.  Most of the things one tries in the beginning are actually bad for your art and the process of making it. 

Yeah I learned that in writing fictional literature and coding.
but I have yet to correct my bad processes in art.

Aside from doing each piece one at a time, what other methodologies and philosophies do you employ when beginning a piece?
« Last Edit: February 02, 2015, 07:14:20 pm by thoughtmachine »
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Offline PixelPiledriver

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Re: UPDATE: improved fighter jet for the mobile suit ~ OCTO FORCE

Reply #13 on: February 04, 2015, 12:53:25 am
Rough edit with some thoughts.
And knowing that it is, we seek what it is... ~ Aristotle, Posterior Analytics, Chapter 1

Offline thoughtmachine

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Re: UPDATE: improved fighter jet for the mobile suit ~ OCTO FORCE

Reply #14 on: February 04, 2015, 01:41:40 am
Rough edit with some thoughts.



Dude wow, man...that is evil looking.

I wouldn't want that in my backyard.

Of course you do understand the design choices that we are going with were picked because the robot turns into the jet and vice versa. Likewise the robot is for the player to use as a good guy.
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Offline lachrymose

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Re: UPDATE: improved fighter jet for the mobile suit ~ OCTO FORCE

Reply #15 on: February 04, 2015, 02:39:17 am
While it is a general rule that form follows function you can stretch those rules quite a bit, especially in the case of magic or higher technology like transforming robots.

Really just depends on how smooth your "transitioning" animation is.

Take a close look at any transformers movie and you'll see all sorts of panelling and gears pop outta nowhere, you just don't normally notice it because the of the speed and fluidity of the animation. All we see is how f-ing sweet it looks. Never mind that bumblee bee somehow added like 5x to his mass when he transformed into his robot form.

I think what PP is trying to show you is that you can be a lot more fluid in your design. You can push both colour and form without compromising your original idea.

Offline thoughtmachine

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Re: UPDATE: improved fighter jet for the mobile suit ~ OCTO FORCE

Reply #16 on: February 04, 2015, 03:05:06 am
While it is a general rule that form follows function you can stretch those rules quite a bit, especially in the case of magic or higher technology like transforming robots.

I think what PP is trying to show you is that you can be a lot more fluid in your design. You can push both colour and form without compromising your original idea.

I know...i just don't like the unrealistic transformation.

Take a close look at any transformers movie and you'll see all sorts of panelling and gears pop outta nowhere, you just don't normally notice it because the of the speed and fluidity of the animation. All we see is how f-ing sweet it looks. Never mind that bumblee bee somehow added like 5x to his mass when he transformed into his robot form.

That is exactly what I don't like.

It's like....how did Prime's arms, the Matrix and all of his inner mechanics fit into that cab?

I love sci-fi and mechas but the shit has got to be realistic on some level.
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Offline Conzeit

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I agree with the basic principle of not making weird changes of mass and not making gears pop out of nowhere, but if you look at the 80's transformer toys they transform to vehicles just fine. That is what you should shoot for.

We dont really know how your jet looks, but the robot form is a very stiff sillouethe with too many perpendicular lines, it being a transformer is not a reason it should look this way, we've seen many jet transformers that look more iconic than this. Maybe if you post the jet form we can see how the parts go?

Try to take the jet parts and integrate them into the robot as a cool piece, also try not to use the bottom part for the legs and the top for the head and just have engine split in two to make legs and the cockpit flip back to make the head. Try to move the parts around enough that each form is striking and it's suprising to see the transformation...I'm saying that as a kid that grew up with transformer toys.


http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/transformers/images/c/c4/MasterpieceStarscream_toy.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20070115141756 here look at this starscream, although he does have a pretty damn useless pair of wings on his back he has a lot more interesting detail going on in his robot form

Offline thoughtmachine

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We dont really know how your jet looks, Maybe if you post the jet form we can see how the parts go?

Actually, the jet is shown at the top of my original post.

But I can repost it here too :)

EDIT:
Can you guys give us more feedback on our Pterodactyl Mobile Suit design?

Should we use one exhaust or two?
Where should the mecha's arms be located?

~jet mode~



~Mecha mode (front)~

Note: The mecha front still isn't done yet, we still need to design the head and give the whole body a shiny metallic finish with proper shading.

~Mecha mode (back)~

Note: The mecha is just entering production.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2015, 11:00:36 pm by thoughtmachine »
Check out our upcoming game:
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Offline Seiseki

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EDIT:
Can you guys give us more feedback on our Pterodactyl Mobile Suit design?

Should we use one exhaust or two?
Where should the mecha's arms be located?

- Reduce the resolution, you're working with a lot of pixels, it's easier if you use less.
- Focus on getting a solid base shape and anatomy first.
- You also need to get a better palette, it lacks contrast and you have too many colors.
- Try to avoid gradients as much as you can, because it makes it look very cheap.
- You have a bunch of outlines on the wings that don't connect which looks very odd.
- As others have pointed out, it's very stiff! Look at more references. Try breaking up those straight lines.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2015, 01:15:56 am by Seiseki »