AuthorTopic: UPDATE: Pterodactyl Mobile Suit Design ~ OCTO FORCE  (Read 18453 times)

Offline thoughtmachine

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UPDATE: Pterodactyl Mobile Suit Design ~ OCTO FORCE

on: January 31, 2015, 08:34:27 pm
EDIT:

Can you guys give us more feedback on our Pterodactyl Mobile Suit design?

Should we use one exhaust or two?
Where should the mecha's arms be located?

~jet mode~



~Mecha mode (front)~

The mecha front still isn't done yet, we still need to design another head and give the whole body a shiny metallic finish with proper shading.

~Mecha mode (back)~

Here is the back so far.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2015, 07:37:23 pm by thoughtmachine »
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Offline smithy101

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Re: Pterodactyl Mobile Suit design

Reply #1 on: February 01, 2015, 11:44:43 am
First off you dont need to up scale your pixelart because this forum has a zoom function when you click on it.
Your 2d dessing looks really static like if you push it it will fall over. But i really like the amount of detaile you put in it. Some basic shadows would improve it a lot. The spaceship also needs some shadows.

Your 3d dessing looks a lot better. I absolutely love the designs of the arms, they look amazing. For the front view you have to shade the 6-pack. The head does not look scary at all it looks really simple in contrast whith the rest of the body. I am realy looking forward to a update with legs. Don't try to use to many colors when shading.
Again the spaceship looks really simple in contrast with the body and it has a lot of collors for a litte bit of shading, i sugest you take a look at some spacships i have build.


I know i not the best pixel artest but if you need some help with spaceships for your game i would be glad to help you, just send my a pm.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2015, 07:16:04 pm by smithy101 »

Offline thoughtmachine

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Re: Pterodactyl Mobile Suit design

Reply #2 on: February 01, 2015, 05:36:28 pm
First off you dont need to up scale your pixelart because this forum has a zoom function when you click on it.

thanx I'll try to remember that.


Your 2d dessing looks really static like if you push it it will fall over. But i really like the amount of detaile you put in it. Some basic shadows would improve it a lot. The spaceship also needs some shadows.
... the spaceship looks really simple in contrast with the body and it has a lot of colors for a little bit of shading...

Yeah, I totally agree with you. It's not finished. the planes are still in their respected concept stages.

The Mecha are more complex and have to 'transform' (I hate using that word). Whereas, it is much easier to adjust the planes. So I am leaving the planes in their concept stages until the mecha are done.


Your 3d dessing looks a lot better. I absolutely love the designs of the arms, they look amazing....I am really looking forward to a update with legs.

thanx!

Here is another update from last night after my previous post:




The legs still aren't finished and neither is the head.

When the mechas and planes are finished we won't be using color banding (gradients) to form lighting, shadows, and shading. The final paint jobs will be much different.

As far as lighting and shading are concerned, we will be using the same coloring techniques used by Square when they did (the guardian boss) in Chrono Trigger.
http://cdn.wikimg.net/strategywiki/images/c/cf/CT_monster_Guardian.png
Disclaimer: Image is owned by Square Enix and is hosted by http://strategywiki.org
« Last Edit: February 01, 2015, 08:54:55 pm by thoughtmachine »
Check out our upcoming game:
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http://gamejolt.com/games/adventure/octo-force-the-paradigm-experiment/30126/
Demo available at site!

Offline thoughtmachine

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Re: Pterodactyl Mobile Suit design ~ OCTO FORCE

Reply #3 on: February 02, 2015, 02:05:56 pm
Here is an updated version:



I don't really like the design of the legs. I'll probably redo them.

The feet look pigeon-toed.
I don't really know what to do about it.
Any suggestions?
« Last Edit: February 02, 2015, 03:50:13 pm by thoughtmachine »
Check out our upcoming game:
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http://gamejolt.com/games/adventure/octo-force-the-paradigm-experiment/30126/
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Offline Johasu

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Re: Pterodactyl Mobile Suit design ~ OCTO FORCE

Reply #4 on: February 02, 2015, 02:33:14 pm
When you are learning it is often best to work on smaller pieces.  The larger a piece is the more work an edit will take to complete.
In the case of your piece here it would likely be best to focus on a portion of it  (top half/head/torso/maybe all three at once) for a while until you make some solid progress on the basics.

You are using far too many colors to be able to adjust this with any sort of ease.  All of that gradient shading has given you 115 colors to work with when the piece could likely be done with 6 or 8 rather easily.
You don't have a clearly defined light source.
Beyond that you have problems with consistency.
Some portions of your machine are rounded with shading while others are very flat in appearance because there is no shading at all.
The torso area is full of multiple planes which portray a shape that is easy to pick out but the legs themselves are entirely done with a singular plane down the length and an outside edge angled back.  The effect is making your legs and torso feel like two separate entities.  Almost in different perspective angles.

My recommendation would be to take the legs out.  Probably the arms too for now.  Work on your shading and defining of forms with the torso where you have the strongest indications of form.  Lock in a light source.  Then move outward after you have made progress there.
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Offline thoughtmachine

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Re: Pterodactyl Mobile Suit design ~ OCTO FORCE

Reply #5 on: February 02, 2015, 03:12:19 pm
Wow. Thanx for the advice.

It's nice to find advice from someone who has a decent portfolio on the web.

When you are learning it is often best to work on smaller pieces.  The larger a piece is the more work an edit will take to complete....
In the case of your piece here it would likely be best to focus on a portion of it  (top half/head/torso/maybe all three at once) for a while until you make some solid progress on the basics.

That is exactly what I did.

I made the arms first, then the torso, and then the legs. I admit, I should have done the torso first. But, I felt compelled to follow a vision I had  in my mind of the arms at that moment.

Some portions of your machine are rounded with shading while others are very flat in appearance because there is no shading at all.

With the legs, I haven't done any light at all. And I know that. It is intentional.
I am going to change their design.


You don't have a clearly defined light source.

And as far as light and shading goes...none of the lighting and shading that has been done is going stay as they are. I did the shading on the torso as is, for the sake of measure. It's easier for me to assess depth with a gradient than with a single flat color.

Actually, I do all my shading and lighting last. I find that when I do lighting and shading on each part separately the lighting and shading comes out off balanced.

I do things in a assembly line fashion.
I design each part. Then I shade it one piece at a time, as a group and not as individual pieces with no reference to how the others are deigned or colored.

If you read back to my earlier post I discussed how I will be doing the lighting/shading with a metallic finish after the fact. Stick around. You'll see what I am talking about when it is finished.

Thanx again, for the advice. It's nice to know that everyone has a different approach to art.
Check out our upcoming game:
Octo Force: The Paradigm Experiment
http://gamejolt.com/games/adventure/octo-force-the-paradigm-experiment/30126/
Demo available at site!

Offline Johasu

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Re: Pterodactyl Mobile Suit design ~ OCTO FORCE

Reply #6 on: February 02, 2015, 04:19:54 pm
It is intentional.
As a general critique of your workflow, it seems you are going out of your way a lot for something you intend to remove.
The gradient shading could just as easily be a single color fill on each plane intended to show the general shape.  Many artists begin with a general shape and work detailing into their piece afterwards.
Lining out a shape filling it with gradient colors to help you determine form and then recoloring over the entire thing later when you associate a light source is a sort of
A>B>L>M>C approach.  (Again... it seems to be going out of the way.[a lot])

It's fine to say it's a WIP and avoid critical assessment of existing flaws, but it's a good way to learn.  The process itself is part of the art.  Refining technique as well as the end result is a great way to develop your abilities.

I dig robots.  Looking forward to seeing where it goes.   :)
« Last Edit: February 02, 2015, 04:27:47 pm by Johasu »
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Offline thoughtmachine

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Re: Pterodactyl Mobile Suit design ~ OCTO FORCE

Reply #7 on: February 02, 2015, 04:32:05 pm
Johasu,

Yeah it may have been the long way around the barn. but adding those gradients only took 10 seconds each. Whereas their advantage toward my assessment lasts until I remove them.

I am not avoiding your critical assessment. I think you are spot on. But you didn't say anything that I didn't already know.
I asked how I might improve the design for the legs and you gave no advice.

EDIT: I don't mean to sound like a dick, but I asked about my car and you offered advice about my boat, my house, and my girlfriends attitude.

I need help with the legs. Would you please advise me on that?
« Last Edit: February 02, 2015, 04:42:40 pm by thoughtmachine »
Check out our upcoming game:
Octo Force: The Paradigm Experiment
http://gamejolt.com/games/adventure/octo-force-the-paradigm-experiment/30126/
Demo available at site!

Offline Johasu

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Re: Pterodactyl Mobile Suit design ~ OCTO FORCE

Reply #8 on: February 02, 2015, 04:52:08 pm
I did actually but it was implied rather than directly pointed to.
To clarify and go further:
The legs look out of perspective, they are stiff and flat as opposed to every other portion which has some rounded angled approach.  It's certainly ok to have long lengths of metal that aren't angled if they are indeed flat like that, but both within the context of the image itself and for the sake of ambulation the legs of your robot need to have more variance to form and shape.

There are no visible joints.  At first glance it seems to stand stiff on these legs and wouldn't be able to move them.  Hip and knee joints would improve this.  There is also no clear ankle/foot definition which would help as well, though on the forward facing angle those might be harder to define.

From a realism standpoint the legs seem too long and skinny to be able to support the thick upper body and overall weight of the machine.  It needs some way to balance itself through both ambulation and any sort of action and combat it would conduct.  Shorten them some, thicken them up, and give them joints.

The inconsistency in shading style between the upper body/arms and the legs and head stand out really poignantly.  If you can manage to bring them together so they don't feel like they are created differently it will bring some cohesion to the piece as well.
 :y:
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Offline thoughtmachine

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Re: Pterodactyl Mobile Suit design ~ OCTO FORCE

Reply #9 on: February 02, 2015, 04:55:37 pm
Right on!

Okay.

Give me a few minutes to read all f this and absorb it.

I am going to have more Q's about it.

I feel kind of lost when it comes to joints.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2015, 05:21:40 pm by thoughtmachine »
Check out our upcoming game:
Octo Force: The Paradigm Experiment
http://gamejolt.com/games/adventure/octo-force-the-paradigm-experiment/30126/
Demo available at site!