AuthorTopic: Chunkbot  (Read 21509 times)

Offline AdamAtomic

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Chunkbot

on: August 14, 2006, 09:56:10 pm
I haven't seen anything like this on here, I am curious to hear your thoughts :)  all the textures were handpainted pixel by pixel, 3d model created in Wings3D and rendered in Blender:



Mods if you don't really count this as pixel art just wipe this thread its no problem :)

EDIT - On second thought here is the combo tex sheet all by itself, easier for zooming:



Thanks again!

ZOMG double edit - a little bit of background information!  I'm working on a DS game idea that is a mix of my favorite parts of FFT and Armored Core and a bunch of other bits and pieces.  You have to manage your team and their different personalities as well as outfit and maintain your 'toons of mecha.  Robots can be recolored dynamically, but many attachments and weapons just stay their own color (like the gun and jumpjets on this guy).  Nice mix of customization and strategy all tuned for the DS stylus+3d combination that i so dearly love...
« Last Edit: August 14, 2006, 10:04:34 pm by AdamAtomic »

Offline Helm

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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #1 on: August 14, 2006, 10:09:06 pm
I've seen your stuff before. Personally I dislike lowpoly 3d plus pixelled textures extremely much, it's just so grating to see unaligned grids of pixels all over themselves, but others might like that sort of thing more. I appreciate the discipline involved, as in all pixel art, but the artistic result isn't for me at all.

Offline ndchristie

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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #2 on: August 14, 2006, 10:21:53 pm
Flashbacks of hours spent playing Homeworld....

i really like the finish of these honestly, and i think they could easily have been overdone by someone else.  design is great.  i would push for a slightly more purple cast to the shadows and a more yellow cast to the highlights, but i dont know how you plan to recolor (if its using several predefined palettes then push the hues, if its using a color slider then dont because youll end up with funny lights, and since you put this together im sure you already knew that but anyway...)

kudos for using freeware too, i would love to see more of the project
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Offline AdamAtomic

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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #3 on: August 14, 2006, 10:45:14 pm
Thanks guys!

Helm - is that a challenge?  :D  Seriously though, I would be very interested to know if there is any lowpoly+pixel art that you EVER liked, just so I could check it and learn more...if not that's cool it's definitely not a look everyone loves!

Adarias - if this does ever find life on the DS I was gonna calc colors by having 3 sliders for the "base" hue of the Primary (red here), Secondary (yellow here) and Detail/Trim (electric blue).  Then I'd just calculate my other colors by darkening and mixing in blues, and likewise get the highlights by lightening and adding in some yellow.  The grays would be locked.  It'd be easier to set up the sliders that way, plus i only have to save 3 integers in order to remember the entire mech's color scheme.  Since the DS can draw quads just as fast as it can draw triangles (as long as they don't have to deform or collide) I should be able to get 5 or 6 of these guys on screen at once with a fairly detailed level in there as well.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2006, 10:46:56 pm by AdamAtomic »

Offline ndchristie

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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #4 on: August 14, 2006, 10:49:09 pm
sounds like a really fun project, i love the concept.  let me know how it turns out (or even better, if you are looking for assistants! :P)
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Offline InvaderLupus

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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #5 on: August 14, 2006, 11:01:38 pm
I really like this piece. It's got an old-school feel to it that reminds me of some good ol' PS1 games. Xenogears seems to stick out in my mind when I look at this (which is a very good thing)

Offline Terley

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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #6 on: August 15, 2006, 12:08:01 am
Very interestin, don't know much about the technique but I think it looks smashing  ;D
I've not got anything interesting to type here..

Offline junkboy

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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #7 on: August 15, 2006, 04:36:56 am
It looks absolutley awesome. Makes me wanna take up low-poly modelling..  :-[

Offline AlexHW

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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #8 on: August 15, 2006, 04:51:56 am
looks very nice
this technique seems to work well for boxy things like robots. I'd wonder how well it would suit something more organic in shape.
reminds me of some stuff flaber showed me once..

Offline ptoing

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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #9 on: August 15, 2006, 08:44:43 am
I like this kinda stuff a lot, no crits from me, i think it looks very cool.

And about Helm, I have been talking about this kinda stuff with him before, he only likes lowpoly when there are no textures or it's wireframe :P
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Offline .TakaM

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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #10 on: August 15, 2006, 09:03:58 am
very cool, no crits. would look really awesome animated  :-*

edit-
actually, the lack of feet kinda bugs me
« Last Edit: August 15, 2006, 09:42:51 am by .TakaM »
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Offline Helm

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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #11 on: August 15, 2006, 09:14:48 am
Yeah, lowpoly is pretty cool when it doesn't pretend to be anything else. The moment anyone slaps on a 128x128 texture over a triangle, it looks bad. Early 3d looked bad 99% of the time. It has only started recently to look on in games.

So it's not your fault.

Offline ndchristie

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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #12 on: August 15, 2006, 12:47:34 pm
Yeah, lowpoly is pretty cool when it doesn't pretend to be anything else. The moment anyone slaps on a 128x128 texture over a triangle, it looks bad. Early 3d looked bad 99% of the time. It has only started recently to look on in games.

So it's not your fault.

I personally think that low-poly machines and mechs and spaceships etc tend to look fine, except in Descent, one of the worst cases of cheap 3d ive ever seen in a game that was that fun to play, and low-polys even have a certain charm about them, though that could be pure nostalgia from playing homeworld, xenogears, armored core, etc.  Low-poly organic objects tend to look like blizzard took a shit and called it an ork (warcraft III _really_ surprised me with its character quality, I expected much more from them.....)

Can the DS do lighting? That might (or might not) add a lot to this piece.

Also, this may be a lot to ask, in fact, I’m almost certain it is, but could you just explain how to get a project from wings, unwrap it, and apply the texture in blender?  Or point me to a website that would explain how?  it seems like the basics of UV mapping and applying textures are very hard to find, though I admit I haven’t ever searched incredibly hard, most places just seem to say "now unwrap the object," or "simply apply the texture you made," and I’m like, if I knew how to do that already, I wouldn’t be reading a tutorial on how to do that?  lol. (and yeah, I'm a permanent noob to 3d)
nevermind i found some good how-tos.  wasnt as hard as i thought, just had to be more specific with my google
« Last Edit: August 15, 2006, 12:54:55 pm by Adarias »
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Offline AdamAtomic

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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #13 on: August 15, 2006, 02:20:08 pm
Everybody - thanks a lot for the encouragement, there are a couple other pieces that have to go into this mockup I will try to get to them soon!

Helm - very understandable!  Though for me some of my favorite artwork is from games like Vagrant Story and Metal Gear Solid, which were all 3d but were really picky about things like texel density, etc, and were able to achieve some really beautiful visuals (in my opinion).  I think like Adarias said for a lot of people the appeal is nostalgic, though for me ther eis also a sense of compromise and technical achievement that is really enticing (I am a programmer/artist hybrid so I am probably TOO obsessed with this sort of thing).

Alex - Organic stuff is kind of hit and miss.  When you have diagonal edges its a lot harder to get thing to line up nicely (which is one reason why robots look so dang good), and misaligned pixels on stuff this low poly starts to look REALLY bad...but it certainly CAN be done well.  It just usually isn't!  Again, see something like Vagrant Story for some amazing organic models and textures (dragons, knights etc - ye gods their dragons were good).

Adarias - The DS can do *some* lighting, though I was planning on using it mainly only for special effects - like if there's a big explosion, turn on lighting during the explosion etc.  Or maybe during a night map if there are strong light sources.  And yes, Descent was hideous :D

Offline Helm

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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #14 on: August 15, 2006, 02:25:58 pm
See this pretty much paints the picture: I recently replayed MGS and it's an absolute horror in the models and textures of them. They tried their best, and it looks extremely bad for me. So it's pretty clear we're not seeing the same things there.

If I took your robot mesh and simply laid all the colors and detail-work in colored vectors, it would look, in my opinion, much better. This pixels-in-models effect looks to me, like a tessellation photoshop filter of some sort. The fact that you highlight every edge of every box doesn't help either. It's like ultralightsource.

Pixel-art level detail for me is only strong when the pixel is the Atom of the Universe (composition). If it's resized, twisted around and unaligned, it's no longer the smaller part, the foundational material from which the rest is built. Triangles are stronger aesthetically when they stick to themselves as the Atom, which was my point about just coloring the vectors on this piece.

I wish I had the 3d knowhow to take that mesh and do that edit so I could better explain my position, but sadly I completely lack it.

Offline robotriot

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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #15 on: August 15, 2006, 02:40:50 pm
Heh, I think that's pretty awesome. It's funny, because after seeing the mech in Starstruck, I decided to create one myself with a pixeled texture, still unfinished. It's not as cool as yours though ^^

I didn't like lowpoly textured stuff either until a few months ago, but somehow I discovered that it has it's own charm.
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Offline Helm

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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #16 on: August 15, 2006, 02:48:59 pm


This works so great because it doesn't try to edge enhance every edge. Fake flat shading in places, use light on edges sparingly, It'd be best if you had engine lighting, but even in lack of, it's better to have a good balance of detail in relation of shapes, than you do currently. It needs to read well, and fast, in motion. Right now I don't think the chunkbot does.

Offline ndchristie

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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #17 on: August 15, 2006, 03:10:17 pm
its hard to say without knowitnhg the range of motion that the bot will use, but i would suggest taking the brightest shine off of every bottom corner.
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Offline AdamAtomic

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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #18 on: August 15, 2006, 04:08:59 pm
Helm thanks a bunch for the extra thoughts and feedback.  I will definitely keep it in mind - the "shines" as such are in their mainly as a way to help the shapes stand out, a role that is traditionally played by lighting.  I think possibly simpler textures and some dynamic flat (as in not filtered or averaged) lighting COULD be a decent substitute, and I will definitely experiment with that as I continue the 3d-pixel quest.  The problem with lighting objects that are this simple is you lose a LOT of control over what you get - if I paint my lighting on I can ensure that the mech looks the way I want it (be that bad or good) from pretty much any angle.  I guess it's a control thing (as is the whole discipline of pixel art?).  However, the end quality of the design is more important than self-indulgence!

One technical/aesthetic gripe I do have about using "real" lighting in games is that except for the highest powered systems there are a lot of compromises that have to be made with the colors you use.  As pixel artists we love to mix blues and yellows with our shadows and highlights to get more realistic or at least more believable lighting on our shapes and forms.  Generally speaking this is a limitation on computers that is hard to control/exploit.  You can tint highlight colors or display colors pretty easily, but it is very hard to get something like blue shadows working in-game.  On something like the DS I imagine it is similar to very basic OpenGL in that you really only have a couple of lighting options (without writing some kind of amazing assembly anyways); ambient, diffuse, and specular.  The only one that can affect shadow color is the ambient piece, but if you bump up your ambient to a blue then it has a direct affect on how dark your shadows can be.  Basically, as a pixel artist the kind of affect i'd want is a real ramp of colors that are used for shaded areas, but if you want dark shadows you have to set black, and if you set blue then your dynamic range is severely limited.  Diffuse and Specular lighting on a system like the DS are generally limited to either flat faces or averaged values; averaging the normals on something like this would be absolutely hideous, and the specular lighting has a tendency to wash out colors as it is just an added tone across all colors on the palette (you can't have dynamic specular on something like the DS that knows to use a certain ramp on the yellows and different one on the reds).

Something that I'd like to try is writing my own blending function that just does a lookup on a ramp instead of a straight addition (like if value of shadow is between 20 and 40 then look in spot 3 on the "red" ramp).  This is kind of how cell shaders work, but they generally don't do it on a per-texel basis.

My point is (and probably this was self-evident but whatever!) that I think people are better at coloring and lighting things (especially on hardware like the DS) than a computer chip is.  Thus the chunky, hand-lit approach.  Unfortunately some of my forms weren't popping like I wanted so I added the shines in (sometimes in somewhat unlikely locations) to help those shapes read better.  My other concern is that generally, in-game, these bots will be max maybe 150 pixels tall, and frequently maybe 60 pixels tall.  I need to make sure that all the shapes and forms still pop and read at those resolutions.

Anyways I hope that helps in some way, not saying the bot is perfect but more that he is the result of a lot of compromises that I am still debating myself!

Offline Helm

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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #19 on: August 15, 2006, 04:14:38 pm
the extra shine won't make it read better when small, it'll just noisyfy it. If the character's silluette reads against backgrounds the mind will fill in the blanks. Contrary to what many people believe, SIMPLER design, as long as it has the color choice to help it, reads faster and better than detail work which you might be throwing away if there's a lot of scaling to go on these.

Offline ptoing

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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #20 on: August 15, 2006, 05:51:49 pm
I have to agree with Helm about the noise bit. In my last company we worked on a DS title (still being worked on) and our 3dguys had to test several model and texture sizes to get it right. Your model at is definalty too noisey. I made a simple scaledown with the canvassize being res of one DS screen and the robot as big as I would guess it should be on screen during gameplay.



On the DS you would have some arbitrary antialiasing but you can not affect that in any way, and it would not look much better, depending on the backdrop you contrast it with it might be even worse. Esp. the topsection where the head is becomes noisefest and i think you would get lots or "frying" pixels where the fine linedetail is. Detail like this would work on higher res stuff, but not on a small screen like the DS.

About the lighting approach I would go for a more Dodonpachi kinda thing. Atm you have lightrims on top AND bottom in most cases, ddp only has them on the top and on the sides and darker lines on the bottom which in that case actually helps to make stuff look more volumetric and i guess it might help here as well.
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Offline AdamAtomic

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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #21 on: August 15, 2006, 06:05:28 pm
Cool thanks for the additional info guys!  If I have time later this week I will try doing more "production" type renders - like at game res, in different instances that I would like to be used in the game.  During normal map play the bot would probably be about that big, though maybe slightly larger since it will be shown from a more top down rather than side-on view.  However during the combat sequences the bots would be much larger so the detail would help some there.  Anyone know if you can build your own mipmaps for the DS?  That might be a good way to solve both problems.  Either that or just have low and high res sheets that can be swapped out - the low ones could have larger, blockier chunks of color and less specular noise?

I will also try dumping a couple videos if I can get some simple motion going; motion SHOULD affect the appearance of unreadable noise, but I'm curious to see if it will just make it blink and have other weird artifacts, or if the details will read a little better because the brain+eyes will kind of build it together itself?

The fact that the head pretty much disappears entirely is a little bit concerning, I'll have to do some thinking about that...

Thanks again for all the detailed feedback, that is exactly why I posted this here.  Everywhere else everybody just says "whooaaze it r teh low poly awesum!!!"  Not surprisingly that does very little to improve my work :P

One thing I am noticing now is that a lot of the textures may be actually TOO high resolution, which I gotta say I was not expecting to run into on this.  I'm definitely liking this idea of having a low res and a high res version of the textures that can be swapped out depending on the game mode...

Offline ndchristie

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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #22 on: August 15, 2006, 06:10:46 pm


looks fine to me unless the individual details are absolutely necessary.  i would assume that the details would only really be seen on a equipment/status menu, and though that small one doesnt really show individual pieces, does it really need to?  silhouette remains strong.  i dont really see an issue with it
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Offline sevenfingers

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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #23 on: August 15, 2006, 06:21:14 pm
Nice stuff!

Listen to what Ptoing is saying; and have a look at Dodonpachi as he says.. even if you don't like the style it's an awesome game :D

Anyways, I did some DS stuff recently, and everything that doesn't have an extremely strong sihouette, and appropriate palette (I did a rather shitty job with that, lol) just gets lost. The arbitrary AA Ptoing is talking about is also annoying as hell, at times it helps the model, but it might as well make it worse.

I think the general level of detail is about right, but take the bottom edge highlights away. It just doesn't work, and flattens the nice volumes you have.
Since you'd be lacking realtime lighting, I'd also considering popping in some more overall lighting in there. Just hit something from the top.
If you use a general lighting combined with the nice edge-highlighting you've got going, it should help separate the different volumes you have.

Offline ptoing

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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #24 on: August 15, 2006, 06:31:10 pm


looks fine to me unless the individual details are absolutely necessary.  i would assume that the details would only really be seen on a equipment/status menu, and though that small one doesnt really show individual pieces, does it really need to?  silhouette remains strong.  i dont really see an issue with it

you have to take movement into consideration. once it would be moved by a 3d engine you would get "frying" pixels where there is too much detail in the texture. I seen it when working on DS stuff and it is not nice at all. Less detailed texture is better in that case.

Also made 2 colour edit's because I was bored.

Just some hue and contrast fudging


And one using the c64 palette because I am silly like that. Does not even use all 16 colours.
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Offline AdamAtomic

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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #25 on: August 15, 2006, 06:37:28 pm
Cool!  Dodonpachi slipped completely under my radar, and I'm at least a LITTLE bit of a shooter geek...I just pulled down a bajillion screenshots to study later.  At first glance I think dodonpachi is a little bit clean + busy (and 80s) for my taste, but they did a great job breaking up their planes.  I tried that on some parts of my bot (i.e. a lot of the tops or front are a full shade lighter) but I don't think its quite working, since apparently it did not get noticed!  It stands out the most on the shoulders and thighs right now.  I kind of backed off it on some of the other surfaces (like the arms) since they will probably be in a lot of different positions in game, as opposed to something like the torso.

Later this week I'm going to save off this version of the textures and try a little more subdued version, with fewer shines and more plane lighting.  Thanks again for the opinions and observations!

Ooops - Ptoing thanks for the edits :)  I started with a color set a lot like your first edit but it ended up being a little bit McDonald's-y for my taste.  The second edit is VERY interesting...ultimately I don't think it would work, its important that the reds and yellows have separate ramps for the customization stuff to work properly.  The amount of purple you've gotten away with is really inspiring though!

Not sure if you guys have THAT strong an opinion but should I move on to a second bot and put this knowledge to use on that or should I definitely revisit the chunkbot?

Offline Helm

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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #26 on: August 15, 2006, 06:55:44 pm
I keep wanting to edit this, but I have no way to. I want to edit the texture and have the result show up on the bot, but that's impossible and it's infuriating me. I will have to learn wings 3d for this. Curse you.

Definately move on to the next bot.

Offline AdamAtomic

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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #27 on: August 15, 2006, 07:00:05 pm
haha - wings3d is nice, but for texturing/previewing i use blender, wings can't do unfiltered/unlit images internally.  but blender is easily the hardest app i have ever tried to learn; its interface was designed to kill baby angels.  What wings lacks in rendering/animation though it makes up for in being incredibly fast and easy to use, i've used it on a number of pro contracts now and it has saved me a lot of time (and thus money)!

EDIT - If I have time later this week I will put together a little Blender SDK and instruction manual for this model.  It would include the model file, the .png textures, and some little instructions for how to refresh individual textures without reloading the model.  Would that be of interest to anyone?
« Last Edit: August 15, 2006, 07:04:39 pm by AdamAtomic »

Offline Feron

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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #28 on: August 15, 2006, 07:11:38 pm
@helm - why not edit the textures and send it to adam and he can try 'em out.

Offline Helm

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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #29 on: August 15, 2006, 07:29:34 pm
Yes it would be of interest to me.

Feron: because then a) I'd inconvinience Adam b) have to predict which part of the texture edits which part of the wrapped model c) learn nothing myself.

Offline Acke

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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #30 on: August 15, 2006, 08:41:48 pm
That looks pretty good apart from the edge highlights. I used to do highlights like that myself when I started doing 3d stuff and it DOES get very buisy when the models are animated. Even in games like Quake 3 or even HL2.

Helm: in most 3d apps you can see the UWV sheet and the model at the same time. So you can probably select the polys in the UWV window and it will show the selection on the model.

Offline ndchristie

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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #31 on: August 15, 2006, 10:03:40 pm
Acke: Adam is the only one with the object file, so nobody can preview the changes in real time unless they constructed something visually identical and unwrapped it

adam, i would love you forever if you made a manual.  i already have blender but my brain doesnt work with it, never has since i downloaded it years ago and doesnt now that its all been reupholstered
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Offline AdamAtomic

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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #32 on: August 15, 2006, 10:14:13 pm
haha adarias i hear you, i had a friend who was kind enough to walk me through the basics.  There is a decent wiki manual for the basics of blender out now, which is nice.  My "manual" will be VERY brief however, and mainly restrictred to selecting textures and setting them up to have 1-bit alpha - I'm afraid it won't do THAT much to help you navigate blender's baby-killing GUI.

Offline Tinygiant

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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #33 on: August 16, 2006, 09:44:54 am
I freaking love this. Makes me wanna try some myself, I can imagine it flying around some Sega Saturn shooter and I wanna blow it up.

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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #34 on: August 16, 2006, 10:34:09 am
Adarias: True. I just wanted mention that it wouldnt be that much of a problem to know what part of the UWVs that corresponds to what part of the model.

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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #35 on: August 16, 2006, 01:09:17 pm
what this reminded me of personally was actually megaman legends...

The robot does not really strike my fancy either, but I do see the point about MGS, I think it looks great.

HElm, what was the section of the game that rubbed you the wrong way the most? I really want to understand exactly what is your gripe with it.

the one game that has achieved the 3d pixelart effect well enough for me, is the upcoming extreme ghouls n ghosts/ultimate ghouls n goblins for PSP

http://psp.ign.com/articles/689/689222p1.html

as usual with 3d, you'd better watch a video because stills dont do it justice.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2006, 01:19:54 pm by Conceit »

Offline Tinygiant

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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #36 on: August 17, 2006, 08:57:14 am
You inspired me...

Offline AdamAtomic

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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #37 on: August 17, 2006, 12:49:28 pm
hahaha whoooa awesome!! that is so sweet dude!

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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #38 on: August 17, 2006, 01:47:02 pm
3D = BAD...  ;D

:( don't go there!!! Stay pure and stay with the pixels.

(he says working on 360° game...) :S

I've betrayed myself... :(

This is a very interesting thread. and I have to second what ptoing said about the noise factor at the DS scale screen... frying...

Helm: remember Zeewolf on the mig... (looked a bit like VIrus/Zarch) ? - that had the BEST low poly people in it - single triangle... animated with a bit of a hobble... was v-nice... kind of ultimate in uber economic poly pushing... I'm with you on this one that's 4 sure...

Tinygiant: Found your trolls thing the other day... one of my buddies at work started a thread here on internal mail called "Kitty" which started based on that kitty hawk game/demo/whaever it is... did it ever get finsihed?

AdamAtomic: If I were i'd flare some of those boxes you're using to make up the general shape of the mech... I kind of see what you're doing with the boxy cuboid look but in my mind it ain't workin' - you could try slecting the four vertices on one edge and scaling them down... or up... to create more rhomboid shapes, it'll add a bit of additional interest to the form...  I always found with lo poly work to pinch joints and triagulate as much as possible to economise on poly's... the gun barrel is a good example of this - it could be a extruded triangle instead of an square.  Obviously feel free to ignore me - just my opinion.


Ptoing: still not made it past 10km... either I'm crap or that games super tuff...!
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Offline Tinygiant

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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #39 on: August 17, 2006, 02:25:08 pm

Tinygiant: Found your trolls thing the other day... one of my buddies at work started a thread here on internal mail called "Kitty" which started based on that kitty hawk game/demo/whaever it is... did it ever get finsihed?


heh, not yet but it will be, I've done loads of GFX for it, programmer that I usually work with is currently in the process of moving house, once thats done he'll be back onto it. In fact this topic got me thinking about using simple 3D low poly backgrounds and bosses in Kitty Hawk

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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #40 on: August 17, 2006, 02:35:19 pm
Wow, I absolutely love it!  Is there a hint of Heavy Gear in there by chance?  I must say that it's very reminiscent of Virtua On, and would make a great action game model.  As for the pixel-on-polys debate: I love the style, so does the original author, so do other people.  It's a question of taste at this point.

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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #41 on: August 17, 2006, 02:44:21 pm

Tinygiant: Found your trolls thing the other day... one of my buddies at work started a thread here on internal mail called "Kitty" which started based on that kitty hawk game/demo/whaever it is... did it ever get finsihed?


heh, not yet but it will be, I've done loads of GFX for it, programmer that I usually work with is currently in the process of moving house, once thats done he'll be back onto it. In fact this topic got me thinking about using simple 3D low poly backgrounds and bosses in Kitty Hawk

NOOOOOO!!!!! Don't do it... !!!! Keep it Pure, Keep it Simple... You'll live to regret it... 3D is the Dark Side... Be tempted by it not you will only find pain... it's like a packet of pringles once you start you won't stop and then you'll end up doing work that 99.9% of the graphic art community do with no flavour or style or substance or SOUL... you'll be sucked into the 'realism' vortex and they'll be no escape... unless your mind is strong only then may you pass into the 3D realm... but be warned - many have tried and many have been lost to 'Realism' vortex... before you know it you'll be steeped in meshes and skinning and rigging and Materials and color maps and height maps and displacement filters and HDR settings and bloom factors and sub surface scattering and no... I can't go on I'm weak... the dark side drains your soul...

Ptoing knows what I speak... he has seen the vortex with his own eyes and it scared him so much he escaped and ran as far away as he could... back to the 80's it's true... some may say too far.. but he know's where it's at and 3D isn't it... not until the Realism Vortex has been vanquished... which may be soon... and once it's gone then and only then will it safe to enter the 3D realm... knowing that style and substance can win over mimicking reality...

Keep it pure... Keep it simple... Heed my warning.

;)
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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #42 on: August 17, 2006, 02:57:50 pm
No offense baccaman but that just sounds like a copout.  There is a widespread problem of realism being the only acceptable style, especially in a lot of american and european studios, but if you don't like it then don't do it!  I've turned down a lot of big studio jobs to keep pursuing my dream of Doing Whatever I Please and in a couple weeks I'm resigning from my grunt programmer job in order to do just that!  If you don't like what people are doing then do your own thing and do it well, that is the only way to make a difference.

And unless people do start making a difference, realism will NEVER be marginalized, and the bulk of video games will continue to be disappointing and pedestrian!

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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #43 on: August 17, 2006, 03:16:19 pm
no offense taken adam... my posts are meant to be tongue in cheek anyway. :D

...and yes I am doing my own thing as of november I'll be taking a well earned break from the industry and going to find myself by travelling the world for a year or so... hopefully I'll find my mojo again and return recharged and ready to rock!

17+ years making video games will make you cynical and jaded... I only wish I had some of the enthusiasm I had when I began and what a lot of you people here demonstrate which is why I lurk around here to see work others are doing and generally speaking, it keeps me sane... so thanks for that - it certainly makes a refreshing change and I do genuinly enjoy witnessing peoples skills improve etc etc...

I love this place... I've been away for a while but it's nice to be back... :D
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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #44 on: August 17, 2006, 03:33:36 pm
awesome!  and 17 years is amazing, most of the guys i know only made it 3 or 4 years before they not only quit the industry they completely stopped playing games :P  if your travels take you to austin you should let me know!

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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #45 on: August 17, 2006, 03:37:12 pm
...as in Texas? Well i'm passing through SW US on my way to central America... was mulling over the idea of heading to El Paso and over into Mexico that way but I think we'll prolly head straight south into Tijuana and down the Baja then cross over to East coast to do some diving in the Gulf... But this is now seriously off topic so I won't rabbit on anymore... thnx for the invite tho... :)
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Offline djork

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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #46 on: August 17, 2006, 03:37:44 pm
awesome!  and 17 years is amazing, most of the guys i know only made it 3 or 4 years before they not only quit the industry they completely stopped playing games :P

Phew.  That makes me wonder if I should ever bother going pro with my game programming...?

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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #47 on: August 17, 2006, 03:43:55 pm
awesome!  and 17 years is amazing, most of the guys i know only made it 3 or 4 years before they not only quit the industry they completely stopped playing games :P

Phew.  That makes me wonder if I should ever bother going pro with my game programming...?

I'd never dissuade anyone from entering the industry... I've had some great times and made some good friends - it's just not like what it used to be... too corporate these days for my liking... but then that's perhaps the path I've taken. I'd say go for it but do so with your eyes open it's not as glamorous as people think... as with most things I guess... give it a whirl though... you never know you may be the next John Carmack...?
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Offline djork

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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #48 on: August 17, 2006, 04:15:23 pm
you never know you may be the next John Carmack...?

Kind and inspiring words, for sure, but I think I've derailed this topic now.  :)

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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #49 on: August 17, 2006, 04:31:15 pm
you never know you may be the next John Carmack...?

Kind and inspiring words, for sure, but I think I've derailed this topic now.  :)

lol... I think I managed that a few posts ago...
:)
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Re: Chunkbot

Reply #50 on: August 17, 2006, 05:36:05 pm
Locked because of severe off-topic-ness.
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