AuthorTopic: Animated Portrait  (Read 7705 times)

Offline PixelPiledriver

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 997
  • Karma: +6/-0
  • Yo!
    • View Profile
    • My Blog

Re: Animated Portrait

Reply #10 on: December 07, 2014, 01:29:19 am
Quote
Kind of brings me to an odd question though, what's the etiquette to follow when someone makes "correct" changes on a work that size? I mean there is only so many pixels to push around, and the AA falls pretty much where I would put it.  Apply the edit with different details for the sake of not copying is like closing a door on where those pixels could be.

I think I get what you mean, but not exactly.

Are you saying:
- the lower the resolution
- the lower the number of pixels
- the less there is changed in an edit
- the more likely your next variation will match that edit
- the more it looks like you "pixel ripped"

Something like that?

There's is definitely a deep important conversation here.
So elaborate.

I have more to say on the subject, if that is what you are getting at.
But want to hear your side of it first.
And knowing that it is, we seek what it is... ~ Aristotle, Posterior Analytics, Chapter 1

Offline AlcopopStar

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 153
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • https://ramheadedgirl.com/folio/

Re: Animated Portrait

Reply #11 on: December 07, 2014, 02:48:12 am
I'll just add in case it wasn't clear that Decroded's edit was completely welcome and informative, but yes essentially what you are saying PixelPiledriver.

To elaborate, when pixel art is low resolution the number of solutions in play are inherently limited. Editing your own work off someone else's edit can sometimes mean deliberately avoiding the decisions they have made in order not to rip from their edit, which seems kind of crazy to me.

Like Decroded's AA just makes sense, I have nowhere else to put it. And the flame is pretty much spot on too, I could change it but it would kind of be an arbitrary change made more for the sake of not copying then learning or progressing the picture. So I'm kind of left with the choice to either copy the work exactly as it is and feel like i'm ripping, copy the work with arbitrary changes and possibly intentionally work at a lower quality then the edit, or ignore it and apply the information on another picture in the future. None of those feel like optimal choices exactly.

edit: maybe the flame is a bad example, that's probably one of the more malleable edits, but I hope you understand my point. (the change to the eye might be a better example)
« Last Edit: December 07, 2014, 02:58:12 am by AlcopopStar »

Offline NaCl

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 437
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • When it rains it pours
    • View Profile

Re: Animated Portrait

Reply #12 on: December 07, 2014, 03:16:30 am
I think that question inevitably comes up here, and there's never single right answer. To me, the important thing is not the similarity of the result, but the amount you reap the knowledge and then apply it. As opposed to, just applying it without learning anything. For instance, I posed an animation a while ago where a character stood up from a crouching position. PPD did an edit where when she stood up, and she actually moved up beyond her normal height, and then back down into it. There's not a lot of variation I can add to that, it's simple but very effective movement of one or two pixels. But I did learn something good from it, so I ultimately didn't feel too bad. That's why I was posting in the first place!

Offline AlcopopStar

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 153
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • https://ramheadedgirl.com/folio/

Re: Animated Portrait

Reply #13 on: December 07, 2014, 03:33:25 am
I totally get that, and I agree that it's important to not applying changes without thinking about or studying the edit. The edits themselves are wonderful but how to treat your work after they have been given, and after you have learned what changes have been made and why, is a different question.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2014, 04:36:01 am by AlcopopStar »

Offline PixelPiledriver

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 997
  • Karma: +6/-0
  • Yo!
    • View Profile
    • My Blog

Re: Animated Portrait

Reply #14 on: December 07, 2014, 03:37:22 am
I kinda think this conversation is too interesting to have buried inside of this thread.
Seems more like "ramble" material.
But no worries it formed here, so lets just play ahead.

This is quickly formulated thoughts on the subject, so anyone should feel free to point out contradictions and/or oddities that I may say.
There may be better ways to explain what I mean.
Or even points that are more relevant.

In the current era of pixel art that we have apparently formed, it is generally agreed upon that the more importance each pixel has in the piece, the more "pixel art" it is.
This theory is exemplified in Cure's pixel document.


So it could be mathematically written as:
< Resolution = > Importance / Pixel

That's all fine and good in theory and practice, very useful.
But as in this case, it can make us feel weird.

The importance of each pixel becomes so real, that it can be easy to feel that in the edit, those pixels are Decroded's pixels.
That he CLAIMED them.
They were HIS choice.
And for you to put a pixel in that space of the same RGB would somehow cheapen its importance because it was not an original choice on your part.

If that sounds crazy, well that's because it is.
It's fucking bullshit.
A massive exaggeration of Sprite Ripping.
It's one thing to have someone do an edit, and say "Ok thanks for finishing that for me!" and run off.
But just because we are pixel artists, and zoom in a lot, even a single similar pixel is somehow theft?
I have to say, no.
It isn't.

What I would do is just take the insight gained from his edit and redo it manually by hand.
If some of the pixels are the same, fine.
But likely some of the choices would be different.

Anytime you post art here looking for edits, or share it with others and ask what they think, you are implicitly accepting the possibility that your art will be influenced by thoughts that are not your own.
If less pixels = more influence, then you have to be willing to accept that as well.
And knowing that it is, we seek what it is... ~ Aristotle, Posterior Analytics, Chapter 1

Offline Decroded

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1285
  • Karma: +3/-0
  • Oh hai
    • View Profile

Re: Animated Portrait

Reply #15 on: December 07, 2014, 03:43:39 am
Thanks Decroded, great changes, the right changes in fact, the only thing I disagree with is the coloured outline.

Kind of brings me to an odd question though, what's the etiquette to follow when someone makes "correct" changes on a work that size? I mean there is only so many pixels to push around, and the AA falls pretty much where I would put it.  Apply the edit with different details for the sake of not copying is like closing a door on where those pixels could be.

It's something i've always wondered about.

Eh, I'd say rip off what u want and discard the rest.
Main point is that u understand how and why the editor did what they did and make an informed decision on what to take, and that u learn and grow from the experience instead of blindly copying or ignoring quality advice (as we see some the odd arrogant noob doing).

Edit was rushed couldn't explain but I didn't want to change much, especially as I really like ur lines and poses.
I'd like to see more of these kinds of characters  :y:

First thing I thought is u could afford a touch of smoothing at that res, being mindful not to cause blurring.
Placement was a bit rushed and I'm no expert so don't take any of it as gospel but u get the general idea.

I mixed outline colours because I thought the strong dark line on blonde hair highlights was overkill.
For me a good reason to outline sprites is so the colours don't get lost against similar coloured backgrounds.
By that logic bright colour needs only a mild darkness outline to stand out against similarly bright colours.
A mid brightness colour needs a dark outline to stand out against dark colours.
And it is natural for a dark colour to be lost against a dark background which is why u don't make a whole sprite out of dark colours.
So the formula is pretty simple that an outline can be made lighter where more light is hitting and the material is lighter.

So yeah that's my theory. No idea if it's right or not  :lol:

edit: oh yeah I forgot, about the flame those colours r rushed I would tweak further.
Main point is the flame wasn't readable and I feel like it is consistent with in game effects for it to have its own colours to stand out.
If colours stand out too much though it  might become primary focal point which u may or may not want.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2014, 04:21:45 am by Decroded »

Offline Probo

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 317
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Animated Portrait

Reply #16 on: December 07, 2014, 04:56:15 am
id say if you honestly cant think of a way to improve someones edit of your work, and its minor enough that the piece still feels like yours (like AAing an iris or removing banding on an outline), you can keep it as is. just be sure to learn from the edit. If someone was to edit your shit and completely revamp it, using techniques you dont know and stuff like that, youre best off just using the edit as reference.

Offline Decroded

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1285
  • Karma: +3/-0
  • Oh hai
    • View Profile

Re: Animated Portrait

Reply #17 on: December 07, 2014, 05:35:21 am
id say if you honestly cant think of a way to improve someones edit of your work, and its minor enough that the piece still feels like yours (like AAing an iris or removing banding on an outline), you can keep it as is. just be sure to learn from the edit. If someone was to edit your shit and completely revamp it, using techniques you dont know and stuff like that, youre best off just using the edit as reference.
^ You're best of opening a discussion about how and why the technique/choices were used in that case  :y:

Offline Probo

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 317
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Animated Portrait

Reply #18 on: December 07, 2014, 06:10:27 am
^yep you should also do that. just dont pass it off as your own

Offline AlcopopStar

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 153
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • https://ramheadedgirl.com/folio/

Re: Animated Portrait

Reply #19 on: December 07, 2014, 11:46:19 am
@PixelPiledriver.
Great answer, you should sticky that somewhere. I think because the medium has a real history with ripping and theft we all have this paranoia, but yeah, when you frame it like that it does seem a bit absurd.



@Decroded,
I ended up messing around with your ideas, as you said, I kept some elements, dropped some others.

I like the starkness of the whole consistent dark outline as an approach as it gives the image more presence and makes the image feel a bit more cartoony imo, I think though this is at the cost of some three dimensionality. I think your approach is more elegant, but tbh i still haven't quite decided if I like shaded outlining in general, I always feel like it should be no outline or a consistent one, so it's an idea i'll likely have to come round to. The only place I broke the outline was on the fire, which i simplified down to one shade, but mostly kept the shape. Hopefully this way it's visible but not too distracting.

Cheers for the crit and thanks for soothing my silly worries everyone. :)