AuthorTopic: I Want To Be A Mighty Pixel Wizard  (Read 9698 times)

Offline ErekT

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Re: I Want To Be A Mighty Pixel Wizard

Reply #10 on: February 20, 2015, 11:20:21 pm
He still seems off-balance to me. This is what I see more or less looking at your ref:



Good stuff otherwise :y:

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Re: I Want To Be A Mighty Pixel Wizard

Reply #11 on: February 21, 2015, 08:52:18 am
He still seems off-balance to me. This is what I see more or less looking at your ref:
Good stuff otherwise :y:
Revision #09 has improved balance.

Also started adding the folds. I re-read the Hogarth chapter on folds before I tackled that and spent some more time watching folds in motion and observed how folds are created. This seems to be more important to do than looking at static references for without that knowledge about motion, it is not possible to determine how the folds in a static image came to be (so this is relevant not just for animation).

According to Hogarth, folds are the result of kinetic forces. They are created by four main types of movement in a body which are: stretching, bending, twisting and rotating.

He says as a result of those base movements, the following nine classes of folds can occur (in all kinds of complicated combinations): stretching-folds, bending-folds, cross-folds, pressure-folds, fragmented-folds, hanging-folds, enclosed-folds, flight-folds (in wind and water) and passive-folds.

So, when doing folds, even in a still image, it is always necessary to think about motion and force for without those, there would be no folds. On earth, one force is always present and that's gravity. So as I do my folds, I constantly aim to keep thinking about how gravity tries to pull down every point (pixel) across the whole surface and whether it is allowed to fall or whether is is blocked either by something underneath or because of being attached to a part of fabric from which it hangs. That way, at least passive- and hanging-folds basically create themselves for as long as I manage to stay focused. Interruptions seem to destroy the mental model of gravity and fabric-thinking-mode so it always takes a bit of time to get back into it after a break.

In revision #09 there are stretching-folds (when the knees pull out), hanging-folds (in the starting position and while the knees return to the center) and fragmented-folds (where the stretching folds interfere with the hanging folds).

I find it very useful to think about the nine fold classes as presented by Hogarth. I feel like there is some overlap between them though and it is not often easy for me to put some fold that I see in real life into just one of those classes but while I draw/pixel/invent them, if I find myself drawing a fold that can not be put into any of these classes at all then that seems to be a good indication that the fold is probably bogus and should not be there.

revision #09 and #08:

Offline Conzeit

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Re: I Want To Be A Mighty Pixel Wizard

Reply #12 on: February 22, 2015, 06:30:24 pm
He says as a result of those base movements, the following nine classes of folds can occur (in all kinds of complicated combinations): stretching-folds, bending-folds, cross-folds, pressure-folds, fragmented-folds, hanging-folds, enclosed-folds, flight-folds (in wind and water) and passive-folds.

So, when doing folds, even in a still image, it is always necessary to think about motion and force for without those, there would be no folds. On earth, one force is always present and that's gravity. So as I do my folds, I constantly aim to keep thinking about how gravity tries to pull down every point (pixel) across the whole surface and whether it is allowed to fall or whether is is blocked either by something underneath or because of being attached to a part of fabric from which it hangs. That way, at least passive- and hanging-folds basically create themselves for as long as I manage to stay focused. Interruptions seem to destroy the mental model of gravity and fabric-thinking-mode so it always takes a bit of time to get back into it after a break.


Thank you for sharing this dennis! I've always felt my way trough folds, and I dont have the language for all of those different conditions, so I probably stand to learn a lot from someone who can explain it in such a detailed way.
You are really bringing a lot into the table by not only listening to advice but going out of your way to learn MORE than what you're being told AND most importantly then share back with us what you learnt =D

I think I'm gonna look up Hogart too! He's got a whole book on folds, so I imagine you're reading another book with only one chapter on folds, right? please share which one =)

on your newest revision: that looks like a very detailed fold map! I think it shows that you've got a lot going on in your head, you're obviously learning a lot =). one thing that I would change about the way you're doing folds though, is that sometimes when two folds meet they dont add up, instead they erease eachother, sometimes with the weaker fold surviving but a little twisted by the other one's force...I think you might see some of that in your ref if you look for it.

in general this version looks like a fold map, which I'm sure willl be very useful for learning, but when you're done with it you should think of how the light hits things and which folds would be hidden by either too much light or too much shadow and try to erease some of them away. Not only for being realistic with the lighting but for a design reason, because as it is the fold map would be too busy for a finalized sprite, specially because you've got a very hi-contrast image here with only those two shades. Dont worry about that yet though, I think assimilating all this information is good work so do what you have to do. You could also add more shades later so that the information is still there but isnt as overwhelmingly contrasted.

EDIT: made an edit BEFORE I may get too busy :p

I went and contrasted up your refs, to something that still shows all the detail but is close to the level of contrast of your sprite.



I went and did the lighting thing on it. Mostly you had good folds going on, but I think the lack of contrast in your ref made some of the folds too regular, specially the big ones in the middle of the first frame. you might notice I removed a lot of the folds at the botton, it's ok to not show the whole line for the fold, just the corners, specially if it's in a dark shadow or really bright light

Also, I went and looked up the folds guy. His drawings seem from a universe where every fold that could possibly ever happen, does. Makes a lot of sense that he did a whole book on how to make them, because his illustrations might be famous for them, but his folds are more abundant than in reality, it's not even in the levels of roman or greek statues, it's closer to 90's comics fold crazyness. I removed a lot of weird insinuations of folds you had on the tighs, I think you were trying to communicate the crumpled fabric but it kinda looked like a glitch or something.

So, I think you might be getting a bit too many folds from trying to think like him, keep his principles in mind if they're good for you but with a grain of salt and compare to your refference, you should deffo not have more folds than your refference, specially because you're animating and specially because you only got 2 shades.

Finally, I think you're still shortening the robe waaay too much. Do you have a thing for wizard knees? :p Remember those vertical folds mean that there's a lot of excess fabric there that will get stretched when he stretches his legs sideways, so instead of pulling the robe upwards the leg will just get the excess fabric from the vertical folds. I only did it up until he lifts his leg cause it gets the point across :p


« Last Edit: February 22, 2015, 10:07:15 pm by Conceit »

Offline 0xDB

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Re: I Want To Be A Mighty Pixel Wizard

Reply #13 on: February 26, 2015, 08:24:28 am
Hey Conceit, just quickly posting to inform you I am currently taking a break from this and will probably pick it up sometime next week again.

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Re: I Want To Be A Mighty Pixel Wizard

Reply #14 on: February 27, 2015, 01:14:36 am
haha, no worries. I might get busy tho :p

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Re: I Want To Be A Mighty Pixel Wizard

Reply #15 on: March 04, 2015, 03:59:44 pm
My mind moved on to something else which means this animation is on ice for an indefinite amount of time, might even never get picked up again, it is completely uncertain if and when. Thank you for your effort.

Offline Conzeit

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Re: I Want To Be A Mighty Pixel Wizard

Reply #16 on: March 05, 2015, 08:20:28 pm
hehe, I was afraid this could happen if I kept C&Cing every little thing u posted  :o :P

if I were you man, I'd just finish it. Even if it meant shoretning it to just having him raise his leg and put it down in a stomp. I mean look at everything you did, all your neat little steps, your refference pics and everything feels kinda underwhelming to have it there like that. Just so that you dont have this hanging over your head for forever...I've been looking at old stuff I had done and never finished and it always feels like I should've just got it to a point where I could show it, even if it wasnt gonna be as complex as the original plan.

Your choiche though, not that it really affects me eitherway. it was a good refresher for me to write out everything I did. Hope you learned lots  :y: cheers.

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Re: I Want To Be A Mighty Pixel Wizard

Reply #17 on: March 05, 2015, 09:10:23 pm
Heh, please do not feel responsible, it is not linked to your C&C.

My mind does not feel overwhelmed with this. If anything, the opposite is true, it is bored by it for the time being.

It sees a clear path to the goal and it knows for in order to reach it, it would merely have to go through long hours of mechanically applying knowledge but there is nothing really interesting, nothing to discover about it anymore and what is "worse"(from the point of view of this animation as a living entity which would want me to finish it if it could express that kind of wish), something else which seems more interesting craves its' attention.

There may come a time (soon or maybe a few days or weeks away or never and I am ok with that too(I do not stress out over not finishing one thing anymore before starting the next because it is not important and I allow myself to jump between different activities)) where it wants to kick back and relax and do this type of work again but currently it is occupied and excited about something it deems more interesting (programming related) than this and I have learned from the past that I must trust my mind and allow it to do what it craves the most for when I try to force it to stick to one thing, nothing ever gets done, neither the thing it craves at the moment, nor the thing it considers boring at the moment as it gets caught in a state where it does not want to do the boring thing and does not start doing the interesting thing because of feeling "guilty" for not finishing the boring thing (I lost entire weeks, even months where I neither worked on anything nor really managed to take a break by playing games because of this odd mind state lock-up).

or in fewer words: a different itch wants to be scratched right now :)

Offline Conzeit

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Re: I Want To Be A Mighty Pixel Wizard

Reply #18 on: March 05, 2015, 09:26:41 pm
's all good then  :P cheers ;D