AuthorTopic: Some sprites I'd appreciate some criticism on  (Read 13144 times)

Offline mtmbTomSmith

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Some sprites I'd appreciate some criticism on

on: September 01, 2014, 05:42:26 am
Firstly let me figure out how to insert sprites, they're in the game as (name)_##.png

I've been doing them all in Aseprite, a program i'm absolutely in love with over things like Gale.
- a robot bug bouncing towards the player
- a hovering enemy that fires large shots in an arc
- a small, halftile enemy that is too short to shoot, but can be meleed if you're doing things right
- more of a hazard than an enemy
- one of the first enemies you run into, it floats at you.

Here's some of the player's animations (some of my gif exports are slow, we set the flip speed in game)
- regular movement
- jumping
- falling (triggers when you walk off a ledge, or after your jump peaks)
- ground melee (there's a graphic that follows the motion and makes a large swoosh that acts as the damaging object)
- air melee (for jump smacking)
- slide (holds on final frame, you can slide under standard enemy shots and its good to get out of the way quickly)
- Boost, for moving quickly through the air horizontally

There's more, but i just wanted some opinions.  Tell me what sucks, tell me what doesn't. There's still tons of sprites to do, and everything here is very much WIP.

Offline 9_6

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Re: Some sprites I'd appreciate some criticism on

Reply #1 on: September 01, 2014, 09:33:04 am
It would help if you posted mockups/screenshots to see the graphics used in context and mention if you adhere to any specific sort of palette or not.
Does scaling an image blur it?
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Offline mtmbTomSmith

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Re: Some sprites I'd appreciate some criticism on

Reply #2 on: September 01, 2014, 08:45:02 pm
I'll have to use dropbox i guess. tinypic can't handle these gifs.

Also, the game is limited to 'the' nes palette. I realize that there's more than one NES palette, depending on some color emphasis shenanigans. I basically went into nestopia, loaded the palette display rom and screencapped the version i liked best out of what it displayed, and i've used that for everything, sprites, tilesets, etc.  It's not the prettiest palette, but it's fun for me.

Tiles are 24x24.



they may take a moment to load ^^

Slow day around here, i guess~
« Last Edit: September 02, 2014, 06:15:35 am by mtmbTomSmith »

Offline SlimeBlaXun

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Re: Some sprites I'd appreciate some criticism on

Reply #3 on: September 02, 2014, 03:16:40 pm
That looks really nice!

Looks a lil bit too much like Megaman.

Offline astraldata

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Re: Some sprites I'd appreciate some criticism on

Reply #4 on: September 02, 2014, 04:33:53 pm
It's very hard to offer useful critique on something that seems so blatantly ripped-off -- I mean, it's clear your design is more than inspired from megaman. The reason it's so difficult is that you've done a lot of edits to its graphics, and in some cases (like the floor spikes in the gif) you just about retain the exact look of the original sprites/tiles.

You have done a passable job of overhauling the specific features of the original sprites, but if you don't understand why those features existed in the original sprites in the first place (and judging by your edits, you don't), you're better off making completely new designs with different palettes (i.e. don't use Shadow Man's colors/stage to start with -- count the colors his stage uses, and select your own palette for a new stage, and if you want a similar look, learn how to make that look with the new colors because).

As far as I see it, great pixel art is 75% great selection and use of colors, and, at most, just 25% great pixel placement.

That said, your emphasis on placement (i.e. your lack of confidence in drawing your own pixel stuff completely from scratch, instead using edits of others' work to start) tells me you don't understand how to create forms with color contrast, which is limiting you drastically. Just because NES games use a lot of flat colors and lines, it doesn't mean they simply omit form (which is created from the contrast of light and shadow). You'll see the representation of form more clearly if you truly study the game graphics better -- a lot of the larger sprites in megaman (i.e. the mini-bosses like the penguin in Gemini Man's stage or the Lantern Fish in Bubble Man's stage) clearly show the flat-colored sprites still take into account form and lighting, and a lot of the level tiles show this accounting for form and lighting as well.

Once you understand how form is done in 2-3 colors, you can begin to see how form and lighting are taken into account in the character sprites as well. As mentioned before, the secret to the representation of form is the creative use of the contrast between the colors you have available to you in your palette. Study what I mention here, and you'll be able to create your own stuff easily. Your game wont look like a simple Megaman clone -- if you apply what I'm trying to teach you here, it will look like something uniquely yours.
I'm offering free pixel-art mentorship for promising pixel artists. For details, click here.

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Offline 9_6

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Re: Some sprites I'd appreciate some criticism on

Reply #5 on: September 02, 2014, 05:06:02 pm
It's really hard to critique raw sprite components ripped out of an environment that slaps more effects on top of it like color or that slash animation of which literally half is missing in the gif you posted.
On top of that, huge dumps make critiquing even harder since it's just too much to focus on anything specific. One specific piece to focus on at a time tends to generate better results.

I tried making the walk a bit more fluid and have it convey some weight by alternating the vertical motion with rather limited success.



The legs appear to snap into position rather than moving since some inbetween frames just have them stay in place.
If you want a floaty walk that slides over the floor more than actual walking that's fine I guess.
If not, you need to smoothen the inbetween leg positions out a bit more.

It's very hard to offer useful critique on something that seems so blatantly ripped-off -- I mean, it's clear your design is more than inspired from megaman. The reason it's so difficult is that you've done a lot of edits to its graphics, and in some cases (like the floor spikes in the gif) you just about retain the exact look of the original sprites/tiles.

You might want to back that up with side by side comparisons.
Just because something looks similar doesn't mean it's an edit.
Does scaling an image blur it?
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Offline SlimeBlaXun

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Re: Some sprites I'd appreciate some criticism on

Reply #6 on: September 02, 2014, 05:11:23 pm
Background looks like Airmans background.
Then we got shadow mans background...a bit of Elecman(?) tileset.
I know those tri-spikes from some megaman level...

There might be a bit of sparkman too....

Its like a enhancment to some megaman stuff.

Offline 9_6

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Re: Some sprites I'd appreciate some criticism on

Reply #7 on: September 02, 2014, 05:36:27 pm
Background looks like Airmans background.
Then we got shadow mans background...a bit of Elecman(?) tileset.
I know those tri-spikes from some megaman level...

There might be a bit of sparkman too....

Its like a enhancment to some megaman stuff.



Inspired? Definitely. Edit? Seems unlikely. I couldn't find any larger scale overlaps.

I don't really want to do all the legwork for the rest of those since I didn't bring it up.

That's on you, don't be all "I feel, there might, perhaps" about this and also not everyone has the looks of all megaman stages ingrained into their memory so please provide the examples you're talking about or else we'll assume innocent until proven guilty.
Or at least I think we do. Seems more productive.
Does scaling an image blur it?
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Offline mtmbTomSmith

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Re: Some sprites I'd appreciate some criticism on

Reply #8 on: September 02, 2014, 05:49:41 pm
The reason it's so difficult is that you've done a lot of edits to its graphics, and in some cases (like the floor spikes in the gif) you just about retain the exact look of the original sprites/tiles.

Originally the game was going to be a quick, thrown together not-megaman game. The player design, his walk cycle, etc were all supposed to resemble the original. As time went on, we kept throwing more and more into it until we decided that we should move it away from its roots.

I must point out though, that there are no borrowed assets. The tile size in this game is 24x24. Even if i wanted to yank something out and use it as a placeholder, it would be way too small.


Quote
but if you don't understand why those features existed in the original sprites in the first place (and judging by your edits, you don't), you're better off making completely new designs with different palettes (i.e. don't use Shadow Man's colors/stage to start with --

What? It's shadowman's stage insomuch as it's orange with lava, and plumbing. I specifically wanted it to feel 'sort of like that'. Is it too much? I mean you've gone right off the bat claiming i basically edited a ripped tileset, i'm not sure if i should be offended or flattered that you thought so :S

Quote
That said, your emphasis on placement (i.e. your lack of confidence in drawing your own pixel stuff completely from scratch, instead using edits of others' work to start) tells me you don't understand how to create forms with color contrast, which is limiting you drastically.

? What? You think the enemy sprites i have up there are also edits? Okay :T show me what they're edits of if you're so confident about it. There's a difference between going 'man your stuff looks pretty bland and samey, like old mega man stuff' and going 'wow way to post a bunch of ripped recolors on the forum'.

I came in here expecting to show off my work, and have people tell me that things didn't move very well, or that the enemy designs were boring. I didn't really expect all that garbage.

Quote
a lot of the larger sprites in megaman (i.e. the mini-bosses like the penguin in Gemini Man's stage or the Lantern Fish in Bubble Man's stage) clearly show the flat-colored sprites still take into account form and lighting, and a lot of the level tiles show this accounting for form and lighting as well.
The larger sprites are rendered like cell shaded anime characters. Megaman is supposed to look like a cartoon show. The box art has it, the large ingame sprites (megaman gets equipped, etc) as well as the larger bosses all follow that design.  I was under the assumption i was doing a similar thing. Black outlines (again, as a cartoon would do), broad fills and simple shading (with a light source in the top left, generally). Also 'flat colored' and 'lighting' don't go hand in hand. If something is truly flat colored, then it has no shading at all, and is evenly lite from all angles. What are you talking about. Please provide some examples.

Quote
Your game wont look like a simple Megaman clone -- if you apply what I'm trying to teach you here, it will look like something uniquely yours.

I guess what i can take away from this is that the game as a whole looks too close to its inspiration, and that is setting off some red flags for people. 

Here's hoping that manually quoting will work.

and to 9_6

--------------

Quote

The legs appear to snap into position rather than moving since some inbetween frames just have them stay in place.
If you want a floaty walk that slides over the floor more than actual walking that's fine I guess.
If not, you need to smoothen the inbetween leg positions out a bit more

The edit does look a bit better. His sprite was pretty much the first thing i did, back when so we could get the test build running with something better than a rectangle. His walk cycle does look like he's skidding his feet across the ground, which would be cool if he had slippery traction. But, he doesn't. I'll definitely give the walk cycle a go over, since you specifically pointed it out.

-- to slimeblaxun
Quote
Background looks like Airmans background.

I definitely looked at airman's really cool clouds to see how they were animated. You edge the blue in from the outside, and there are three steps. it looks great. Are you going to claim that a waterfall made by cycling three blues over a tile is also an edit? Pretty much every game ever did it that way.

--

In summation, yeah, i was definitely drawing from the classic mega man games as inspiration, but everything here is work i've made from scratch in aseprite (or pyxelEdit for the tilemaps). I didn't realize trying to make it look like it would fit in was going to activate the ICBMs.

ps, the trispikes. They're similar to a spike that faces downward underwater in some level, i don't remember which. They're a brilliant idea, they fill up the hitbox very well, and look like they'd cause damage when  approached from any point. You can rotate or flip them and they'll work anywhere. I used the idea, but it's a totally different image.
There's a lot of games with similar ideas. We have logs that you ride down a waterfall, too. Mario 2 did that, one of those bible games did it, and i'm sure someone else did. If people didn't reuse ideas in their games, there wouldn't be any games.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2014, 06:10:11 pm by mtmbTomSmith »

Offline Seiseki

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Re: Some sprites I'd appreciate some criticism on

Reply #9 on: September 02, 2014, 06:34:12 pm
The palette and your the player character looks really dull and flat..
The character is also really dark and doesn't have much contrast between colors. If I squint my eyes he just disappears into a dark blob.

I had a go at it and went a bit overboard.. The colors are too crazy to fit in with the levels..