AuthorTopic: Pixel.tools editor allows artists to pixel together on the same image/animation.  (Read 29913 times)

Offline AlexHW

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Check it out at https://prominentdetail.github.io/Pixel.Tools/
Pixel.Tools is also on Github https://github.com/prominentdetail/Pixel.Tools


I developed this pixel-art editor for the pixel community, it's free to use.
It has many features you'd expect from an editor geared towards pixel-art.
The main feature is its ability to allow artists to connect together and work on the same projects, useful for things like gamejams, mentoring, or just having fun collaborating.
  • create animations
  • export/import gifs & spritesheets
  • tile window for previewing tiles
  • layers/frames
  • selection tools, rotating, resizing
  • History
  • shortcut keys similar to photoshop
  • wacom tablet support (firefox only)
  • Your entire process is recorded and you can play it back step by step
  • You can export the entire process to a gif
  • Colordex system
The Colordex system I created when I was inspired by the hd index painting technique. It allows you do draw in the same way that the hd index painting works, but without the hassle of setting it up. Plus it allows you to mix multiple color ramps together!

Here's a gif showing me scribbling with the Colordex system:

Plus there's a lot more you can do..
I used the editor to create all the graphics in my recently released game Quasi
http://prominent.itch.io/quasi
and is a good example of what can be made with Pixel.Tools



Here's an old screenshot of the editor:


Edit: here's a video demonstration of how to use the Colordex system:
http://youtu.be/QGLg-N9RT44
Here's a quick run-through of some features:
http://youtu.be/0io_Dl8yKmM

If you have any question as to how to use it, etc, I'll be happy to help clear anything up.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2016, 01:00:47 am by AlexHW »

Offline PixelPiledriver

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Very cool man.
I'll put some time in later and let you know what happens.
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Offline Son of Bryce

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This is friggin sweet. Any insight into how you developed this?

Offline AlexHW

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thanks,
looking forward to your feedback Piledriver.
Bryce, do you have anything specific about the development you'd want to know? There was a lot involved. I had done previous experiments with html5 canvas element and drawing to it, but this time around I focused everything around the ability to connect between painters and pixel on the same project. There were a lot of challenges related to ensuring that the images on everyone's end match 100% with everyone else's image. Everyone connected has their own history state as well, which must be synced up with everyone else's. Everything has to work in unison.
I also wanted to implement everything I would normally use in my workflow, plus useful things I didn't have.

Offline tim

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It seems like a very nice piece of software !
Some kind of video tour / tutorial would be great to jump quickly into it.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2014, 08:14:38 pm by tim »
Founder of Odd Tales
Art Director - Game Director - Game designer - Motion designer

Offline Son of Bryce

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Thanks for the reply Alex, were there any HTML tools you used that made it easier to make the GUI? Or was it done from scratch? And what are you using to make it multi-user?

And I agree with tim, a short video that would outline how it works and shows which features it has would be awesome.

It seems like Frames double as Layers. Is there anyway to playback the animation in the window?

I also want to reiterate how cool I think this thing is. Have you posted it on reddit.com/r/gamedev/ ?

Offline AlexHW

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Yea, I need to create a video that demonstrates everything. One of my molar teeth is shifting trying to come through, causing my jaw to swell. So it's difficult to be productive at the moment with the pain. I'll sort out some video once I can focus better.

I used Jquery UI, which helped with the styling of everything which made the process a bit easier. There were various things I had to modify or things I had to do my own way though to get stuff to look the way I wanted.
I used PeerJS which allows users to connect to each other in a browser and send data between them.

Yes, frames double as layers. Since I had been using photoshop in the past I modeled this off that.
Layers/frames towards the bottom of the Frame list are underneath layers/frames that are towards the top of the list. You can click and drag their handle to reorder them. You can  select multiple frames by dragging their thumbnail or ctrl clicking their thumbnail.

To play the animation, just click the Play button in the header of the Frames window, and click again to stop it.
 
You can link together frames if you want multiple frames to be combined into one frame cell. There is an icon between each frame thumbnail that looks like two lines, click it to link the frames. They'll be combined when you play the animation or export it.
Invisible frames will be skipped in an animation(frames that have their visibility set off by clicking the eye icon). If you want a blank frame in an animation, you can just create a frame and leave it blank.

You can set the frame intervals by clicking the number in the lower right of each thumbnail. Select multiple frames to change more than one at a time.

I haven't posted to reddit.. I've never used it and I'm actually not sure how it works.. but I'll look into doing that when everything is documented..

glad you're enjoying it! My goal is to make this my primary tool for pixel-art.



Edit: I've added a video link to the original post.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2014, 09:28:04 pm by AlexHW »

Offline AlexHW

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Just fixed a major bug with the Colordex!
So if anyone experienced unexpected color shifts with it, it should now be fixed.
I had noticed that creating complicated combinations of color ramps caused unexpected black colors to be drawn.. Part of the reason was related to how the canvas data was being managed when it processes the colors. I also realized from this that the control over the magic eraser tool wasn't selecting the correct colors in certain circumstances, so I sorted that out.
Now color mixing works super great and everything adjusts in a predictable manner!
I also felt like saving the previous version in-case people playback any old files, they should still playback accurately to how they were made (this is something I need to manage as I change core functionality to ensure old files remain true to their creation)..

Offline Ai

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Doesn't seem to work for me. I select the pencil tool and click -- I make a short green mark (the result is short, my click isn't). Subsequent clicks have no effect.

I can interact with non-canvas elements okay (eg. choose tool and color) but cannot interact with the canvas, though items are added to the undo history, so perhaps the clicks are processed correctly but the canvas is not updated. Adjusting zoom level also has no effect that I can tell.

Creating a new image does not effect the canvas (ie. the image remains the same size, with the same green mark in the same place).

I'm running Firefox 31.0 on Arch Linux 64bit.
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Offline AlexHW

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If you open up firefox's console, are there any errors showing?


edit: btw, I've added extra options under Edit menu for manually cutting,copying,pasting,clearing selections made with selection tool for those who may be confused with how to use the selection tool.
Also added one Undo for crop/image resize/canvas resize operations. Any more would cause complications when multiple users connected together. These operations clear the History, and if you make more than one, you can only undo the last one, so you still have to be careful..
Fixed an issue with using the paint bucket on 1x1 pixel sized areas.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2014, 12:00:00 am by AlexHW »

Offline Ai

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There are two warnings:

Use of Mutation Events is deprecated. Use MutationObserver instead. jquery-1.10.2.js:4816
Use of getPreventDefault() is deprecated.  Use defaultPrevented instead. jquery-1.10.2.js:5375

No errors are shown.
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Offline AlexHW

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Hm, difficult for me to debug as I don't have access to a linux machine, but I did a search to see if I could find any possible clues.
I found these two:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/14486910/poor-canvas2d-performance-with-firefox-on-linux
http://www.html5gamedevs.com/topic/1251-just-a-tip-for-people-using-linux-and-firefox-and-experiencing-slow-getimagedata/
You may want to try changing that preference suggested on the second link to see if that gives you any different results..
If you try that, let me know if it does anything differently.

edit: I'd also be curious to know if using chrome for you has any difference.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2014, 03:49:57 am by AlexHW »

Offline Crow

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Hm, difficult for me to debug as I don't have access to a linux machine

Run it in a VM :crazy:
Discord: Ennea#9999

Offline AlexHW

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Added a new option under Edit menu; "Insert Clipart"
The image file you select will be pasted into your project. This is useful if you want to copy something from another image into your project.
Also, I fixed an issue with the selection outlines not showing after the selection was rotated.

Edit: added ability to zoom using the mousewheel.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2014, 12:21:42 am by AlexHW »

Offline Ai

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Hm, difficult for me to debug as I don't have access to a linux machine, but I did a search to see if I could find any possible clues.
I found these two:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/14486910/poor-canvas2d-performance-with-firefox-on-linux
http://www.html5gamedevs.com/topic/1251-just-a-tip-for-people-using-linux-and-firefox-and-experiencing-slow-getimagedata/
You may want to try changing that preference suggested on the second link to see if that gives you any different results..
If you try that, let me know if it does anything differently.

edit: I'd also be curious to know if using chrome for you has any difference.

Just tested with Chromium, that works okay. Strokes are noticably polygonal, but I don't know whether that's just the current state of the code or something specific to this system. Nothing is obviously broken on Chromium, anyway.

EDIT: the gfx.xrender.enabled setting has no noticable effect. I did notice one more data point, though: the thumbnail view is correctly updated when I paint, it is only the main canvas that fails to redraw.This becomes more obvious when I switch to a large brush.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2014, 06:40:04 am by Ai »
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Offline AlexHW

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Just tested with Chromium, that works okay. Strokes are noticably polygonal, but I don't know whether that's just the current state of the code or something specific to this system. Nothing is obviously broken on Chromium, anyway.

EDIT: the gfx.xrender.enabled setting has no noticable effect. I did notice one more data point, though: the thumbnail view is correctly updated when I paint, it is only the main canvas that fails to redraw.This becomes more obvious when I switch to a large brush.

Hm, that sounds odd. If the thumbnails are updating, then that would mean that the drawing operations are completing as normal. The problem must be happening somewhere in the main loop is my guess. If you open the secondary viewport by pressing the V key, and make sure its' dropdown choice is set to All, if you draw in the primary viewport does it get shown in the secondary viewport?..
Another thing I'm wondering about is if you try dragging the resize handle of the primary viewport so that the viewport is smaller, does that affect anything?
What if you set the dropdown options on primary and secondary to Frame, does that affect the drawing?..

Offline Ai

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Hm, that sounds odd. If the thumbnails are updating, then that would mean that the drawing operations are completing as normal. The problem must be happening somewhere in the main loop is my guess. If you open the secondary viewport by pressing the V key, and make sure its' dropdown choice is set to All, if you draw in the primary viewport does it get shown in the secondary viewport?..
Yes, the secondary viewport updates normally at a speed comparable to chromium.
However, if I attempt to adjust the secondary viewport's zoom, it stops updating.

Quote
Another thing I'm wondering about is if you try dragging the resize handle of the primary viewport so that the viewport is smaller, does that affect anything?
Yes, it causes the canvas to be redrawn with the updated content, once I finish the drag.
It has no other side-effects (ie. this does not cause the canvas to begin updating normally)

Quote
What if you set the dropdown options on primary and secondary to Frame, does that affect the drawing?..
No.

Thanks for cooperating in debugging this.
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Offline AlexHW

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Okay, thanks for the details.
I tried swapping the order of the primary and secondary viewports.. I'm curious if that will make the primary canvas update like normal and the secondary not update normally, let me know if that's the case (you can also try dragging the resize handles smaller to see if that changes anything. If there's no differences, there might be some technical reason why firefox on arch linux is having difficulty refreshing the canvas.

btw, I've added a simple method to scan the project for used colors. Theres a new button next to colordex button. You can click the colors to eyedrop them.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2014, 05:58:34 pm by AlexHW »

Offline Ai

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I tried swapping the order of the primary and secondary viewports.. I'm curious if that will make the primary canvas update like normal and the secondary not update normally, let me know if that's the case (you can also try dragging the resize handles smaller to see if that changes anything. If there's no differences, there might be some technical reason why firefox on arch linux is having difficulty refreshing the canvas.

btw, I've added a simple method to scan the project for used colors. Theres a new button next to colordex button. You can click the colors to eyedrop them.

HMM.
* The secondary canvas is still the one that shows updates.
* I've tried resizing to a variety of sizes. None of them have an effect, but I can report what is probably an unrelated bug -- when the main viewport becomes narrow enough, it is drawn as completely blank (ie. dark grey rather than checkerboard+some green pixels). Examining other cases, I suspect this means that the image is being displayed in an area that is off to the 'right' of the displayed canvas area, rather than forcing some of the image to be shown on canvas.

On an unrelated note, is the Colordex feature intended to support adding colors one by one, or only loading palettes? Because it does nothing when I click in it's main area, I'm not sure what was intended.
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Offline AlexHW

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okay buddy.. I've uploaded a version with a lot of stuff disabled. I want you to go to http://www.alexhw.com/pixeledit/ and try drawing in the primary viewport. Let me know if it works. If it doesn't I have some other things I can try disabling.. The secondary viewport is disabled also, so don't expect to see anything in that..


the colordex.. yea, you should be able to draw colors in it using the pencil/brush tool. then ctrl clicking the colors to setup up the brush tool. Theres a video in a previous post where i show how to use it.

Offline Ai

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okay buddy.. I've uploaded a version with a lot of stuff disabled. I want you to go to http://www.alexhw.com/pixeledit/ and try drawing in the primary viewport. Let me know if it works. If it doesn't I have some other things I can try disabling.. The secondary viewport is disabled also, so don't expect to see anything in that..
Very interesting. Yes, that works fine, including changing zoom level, panning, and even drawing in the colordex as you mentioned. I've verified that drawing in the colordex has no visible effect in the non-cutdown version.

I have also noted that eyedropping always returns black, both in the cutdown and non-cutdown version. In chromium, it returns the correct color.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2014, 02:25:29 am by Ai »
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Offline AlexHW

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Very interesting. Yes, that works fine, including changing zoom level, panning, and even drawing in the colordex as you mentioned. I've verified that drawing in the colordex has no visible effect in the non-cutdown version.

I have also noted that eyedropping always returns black, both in the cutdown and non-cutdown version. In chromium, it returns the correct color.
Okay, that is good to know.. I've reenabled a portion in the cutdown version. If you can check the http://www.alexhw.com/pixeledit/ and see if it still draws in the primary viewport, that would be good. Sorry about this slow process, but I think we're getting closer to the issue.

Offline Ai

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Okay, that is good to know.. I've reenabled a portion in the cutdown version. If you can check the http://www.alexhw.com/pixeledit/ and see if it still draws in the primary viewport, that would be good. Sorry about this slow process, but I think we're getting closer to the issue.

Yes, this appears to have exactly the same level of functionality as the previous iteration (the one in which I can see what I'm drawing).

Don't worry about the slowness, I am very familiar with the demands of debugging.

I've just tested on Midori, which uses the same underlying technology (WebKit) as Firefox. Results: exactly the same as FireFox, for both the cutdown and full versions. This relieves a concern I had, which was that the problem could have arisen from a bad interaction with a Firefox addon. Clearly the problem is in some kind of interaction with WebKit.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2014, 07:48:46 am by Ai »
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Offline AlexHW

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okay, cool.. I've updated the cutdown version. I re-enabled some things. I have a suspicion that it won't work this time, but go to the alexhw.com/pixeledit page and check if it draws. If it still draws, then the problem might be in one of two places that are still disabled, otherwise if it doesn't draw, then the problem is with one of the things I've enabled.
 

Offline Ai

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Yes, that still works just as well.
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Offline surt

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Mouse-wheel zoom is reversed from the norm for me. Wheel up zooms out, wheel down zooms in.
If I keep the mouse still and zoom in and out the canvas wanders to the right.

Offline AlexHW

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Okay, Ai, I've re-enabled another thing. I think it shouldn't work this time. Check the alexhw.com/pixeledit page to see if it works or not. I'm pretty sure it won't draw this time.

Surt, I now implemented an invert option within the Settings. It should remember your settings too. I'll look into the zoom shifting issue.. I've noticed it before, but I haven't got around to fine-tuning it.

Offline Ai

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Yeah, looks like you've located it, this iteration has the same problem as the non-cutdown version. Just for completeness, I'll specify that I've tested that neither the main canvas nor the colordex update. (I guess you're sharing much of the same code between them)
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Offline AlexHW

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Okay.. I think there's two possibilities left as to what could be the issue. I've disabled some parts that change the globalCompositeOperation of the canvas.. Check the alexhw.com/pixeledit page to see if you can now draw again on the primary viewport and in the colordex.

Offline Ai

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Check the alexhw.com/pixeledit page to see if you can now draw again on the primary viewport and in the colordex.
No, I can't. Same behaviour as previous update.
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Offline AlexHW

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No, I can't. Same behaviour as previous update.
Okay.. try it again, please. If it works, then I've found the part that is causing problems.

Offline Ai

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Okay.. try it again, please. If it works, then I've found the part that is causing problems.
Nope, this iteration doesn't work either (doublechecked in both Firefox and Midori).
« Last Edit: August 10, 2014, 10:32:28 am by Ai »
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Offline AlexHW

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okay, that is really puzzling.. Okay, let's try something ..
I've set it up so that depending upon the preset selected, it will disable certain parts.. so hopefully this will help find the location where it is breaking..

I need you to make a note what happens when you do each of the following steps..
If you go to the page again and click on the preset 1 button( the number 1 button below the color sliders), and then try drawing, it shouldn't draw because everything is enabled.
Then click number 2, and try drawing.. let me know if it does or not.
Then click number 3, and try drawing.. let me know if it does or not..
then click number 4, try drawing, etc..
then click number 5, try drawing, etc..
then click number 6, try drawing, etc..
you only have to go up to 6, but let me know when you're able to draw (also make sure your tool is set to pencil while you do this).

If for some reason you can't draw on any of them, try the process over again, but resize the canvas by dragging the resize handle after you click a new preset button. So, click 1, resize, draw, click 2, resize, draw, etc..
« Last Edit: August 10, 2014, 03:58:19 pm by AlexHW »

Offline Ai

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The result for all presets (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0), is uniform: the canvas doesn't update, except upon a resize operation. First I simply ran through the presets, then I tried your 'select preset, resize, draw, select preset..' procedure.

Then I performed the same checks in Midori, with the same results.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2014, 02:01:10 am by Ai »
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Offline Decroded

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Cool Alex  :y:
I'm going to try this out ASAP.

I was wondering what you had been up to...

Offline AlexHW

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The result for all presets (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0), is uniform: the canvas doesn't update, except upon a resize operation. First I simply ran through the presets, then I tried your 'select preset, resize, draw, select preset..' procedure.

Then I performed the same checks in Midori, with the same results.
hm, can you try doing it with the console open to see if any errors pop up while you try drawing with each preset? It's really strange that there would be no change.. If no errors pop up, you can try maybe clicking on your history states to see if that affects anything while you draw.. although it probably won't make a difference- I'm not sure what the problem is currently. We disabled a section and it worked, and then re-enabled it but allow the presets to control how much of it gets run.. Doesn't make sense it would still break if the section of code isn't running.

Cool Alex  :y:
I'm going to try this out ASAP.

I was wondering what you had been up to...

Thanks, let me know how it works for you, and if you have any suggestions too. I haven't been up to much besides this editor thing..
« Last Edit: August 11, 2014, 05:07:49 am by AlexHW »

Offline Ai

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Okay, the console output is more voluminous now:
Code: [Select]
Expected 'none' or URL but found 'Alpha('.  Error in parsing value for 'filter'.  Declaration dropped. jquery-ui-1.10.4.custom.css:51
Expected 'none' or URL but found 'alpha('.  Error in parsing value for 'filter'.  Declaration dropped. jquery-ui-1.10.4.custom.css:606
Expected 'none' or URL but found 'Alpha('.  Error in parsing value for 'filter'.  Declaration dropped. jquery-ui-1.10.4.custom.css:910
Expected 'none' or URL but found 'Alpha('.  Error in parsing value for 'filter'.  Declaration dropped. jquery-ui-1.10.4.custom.css:917
Expected 'none' or URL but found 'Alpha('.  Error in parsing value for 'filter'.  Declaration dropped. jquery-ui-1.10.4.custom.css:921
Expected 'none' or URL but found 'Alpha('.  Error in parsing value for 'filter'.  Declaration dropped. jquery-ui-1.10.4.custom.css:1169
Expected 'none' or URL but found 'Alpha('.  Error in parsing value for 'filter'.  Declaration dropped. jquery-ui-1.10.4.custom.css:1176
Expected 'none' or URL but found 'Alpha('.  Error in parsing value for 'filter'.  Declaration dropped. jquery-ui-1.10.4.custom.css:51
Expected 'none' or URL but found 'alpha('.  Error in parsing value for 'filter'.  Declaration dropped. jquery-ui-1.10.4.custom.css:606
Expected 'none' or URL but found 'Alpha('.  Error in parsing value for 'filter'.  Declaration dropped. jquery-ui-1.10.4.custom.css:910
Expected 'none' or URL but found 'Alpha('.  Error in parsing value for 'filter'.  Declaration dropped. jquery-ui-1.10.4.custom.css:917
Expected 'none' or URL but found 'Alpha('.  Error in parsing value for 'filter'.  Declaration dropped. jquery-ui-1.10.4.custom.css:921
Expected 'none' or URL but found 'Alpha('.  Error in parsing value for 'filter'.  Declaration dropped. jquery-ui-1.10.4.custom.css:1169
Expected 'none' or URL but found 'Alpha('.  Error in parsing value for 'filter'.  Declaration dropped. jquery-ui-1.10.4.custom.css:1176
Error in parsing value for 'background'.  Declaration dropped. pixeledit:90
Error in parsing value for 'background'.  Declaration dropped. pixeledit:91
Error in parsing value for 'background'.  Declaration dropped. pixeledit:92
Error in parsing value for 'background'.  Declaration dropped. pixeledit:93
Expected 'none' or URL but found 'progid'.  Error in parsing value for 'filter'.  Declaration dropped. pixeledit:95
Error in parsing value for 'background'.  Declaration dropped. pixeledit:102
Error in parsing value for 'background'.  Declaration dropped. pixeledit:103
Error in parsing value for 'background'.  Declaration dropped. pixeledit:104
Error in parsing value for 'background'.  Declaration dropped. pixeledit:105
Expected 'none' or URL but found 'progid'.  Error in parsing value for 'filter'.  Declaration dropped. pixeledit:107
Unknown property '-moz-border-radius'.  Declaration dropped. pixeledit:137
Unknown property '-moz-border-radius'.  Declaration dropped. pixeledit:152
Unknown property 'user-select'.  Declaration dropped. pixeledit:170
Expected declaration but found '/'.  Skipped to next declaration. pixeledit:173
Expected declaration but found '/'.  Skipped to next declaration. pixeledit:174
Expected declaration but found '/'.  Skipped to next declaration. pixeledit:175
Expected declaration but found '/'.  Skipped to next declaration. pixeledit:177
Expected declaration but found '/'.  Skipped to next declaration. pixeledit:178
Expected declaration but found '/'.  Skipped to next declaration. pixeledit:179
Error in parsing value for 'font-style'.  Declaration dropped. pixeledit
Unknown property 'user-select'.  Declaration dropped. pixeledit
Expected color but found 'show'.  Error in parsing value for 'border'.  Declaration dropped. pixeledit
Use of Mutation Events is deprecated. Use MutationObserver instead. jquery-1.10.2.js:4816
Use of getPreventDefault() is deprecated.  Use defaultPrevented instead. jquery-1.10.2.js:5375

Cycling through the presets as before generates no further errors.
If you insist on being pessimistic about your own abilities, consider also being pessimistic about the accuracy of that pessimistic judgement.

Offline AlexHW

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hrm ok.. those don't seem to narrow things down.
Try drawing again on the alexhw.com/pixeledit page. Let me know if it draws or not.. Seems like we have to test things one step at a time. Sorry about this process, hopefully it isn't as frustrating for you as it is for me, but sooner or later something should make sense.

Offline Ai

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hrm ok.. those don't seem to narrow things down.
Try drawing again on the alexhw.com/pixeledit page. Let me know if it draws or not.. Seems like we have to test things one step at a time. Sorry about this process, hopefully it isn't as frustrating for you as it is for me, but sooner or later something should make sense.
Eh, after doing enough programming, I just learnt to ignore the frustration and focus on determination.

Just to be clear, it always draws, but most versions don't update the canvas view (including your latest update.)
This may seem pedantic, but I've learnt there's no such thing for debugging, so I try to say things as accurately as possible.

If you insist on being pessimistic about your own abilities, consider also being pessimistic about the accuracy of that pessimistic judgement.

Offline AlexHW

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Eh, after doing enough programming, I just learnt to ignore the frustration and focus on determination.

Just to be clear, it always draws, but most versions don't update the canvas view (including your latest update.)
This may seem pedantic, but I've learnt there's no such thing for debugging, so I try to say things as accurately as possible.
Yea, being determined helps in these cases. Thanks for being clear. I've updated it again, try the alexhw.com/pixeledit page to see if it draws now.. If it does.. then it's related to a for loop that counts backwards. I don't know why that would be the cause, so I don't expect it to draw, but let me know.

Offline Ai

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Yeah, the canvas still doesn't update on this latest version. Tested with presets 1-6 although I daresay they're irrelevant at the moment.
If you insist on being pessimistic about your own abilities, consider also being pessimistic about the accuracy of that pessimistic judgement.

Offline AlexHW

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yea, don't worry about doing the preset routine anymore, I removed that stuff since it wasn't helping.
Okay, try drawing again. Let me know if it does or not.
I have an idea as to something that might be causing the issue, but we need to step through things one at a time so I don't overlook anything.

Offline Rögnvaldr

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This is really awesome so far, I'm loving the Colourdex though I think it will take some practice before I really understand it. The transparency dithering is really useful as well.

I ran into an issue when attempting to use the online though. Between a friend and myself we both attempted to connect to each other and according to the messages in the chat box it seemed like nothing failed but neither of us received any invitation to the others room.

Here is the messages my friend received when he sent the invite:

Creating RTCPeerConnection.
Listening for ICE candidates.
Listening for `negotiationneeded`
Listening for data channel
Listening for remote stream
Created offer.
Set localDescription: offer for: Jakten


I was also wondering if you have plans to release a downloadable version at all. Online applications always feel awkward to me and worry me that I will lose work.

Offline AlexHW

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This is really awesome so far, I'm loving the Colourdex though I think it will take some practice before I really understand it. The transparency dithering is really useful as well.

I ran into an issue when attempting to use the online though. Between a friend and myself we both attempted to connect to each other and according to the messages in the chat box it seemed like nothing failed but neither of us received any invitation to the others room.

Here is the messages my friend received when he sent the invite:

Creating RTCPeerConnection.
Listening for ICE candidates.
Listening for `negotiationneeded`
Listening for data channel
Listening for remote stream
Created offer.
Set localDescription: offer for: Jakten


I was also wondering if you have plans to release a downloadable version at all. Online applications always feel awkward to me and worry me that I will lose work.

Make sure you both select the same Studio before logging in (the dropdown next to the login), if you don't select the same studio, then you won't be able to connect to each other.
For using the website offline, you could try downloading it using a tool like httrack
That should allow you to download everything you need (I haven't tested it).. That would allow you to get the latest version if it gets updated.. Otherwise, I'd have to upload a zip of everything everytime it gets updated. Let me know if you can't download it using a tool like that, and I could put a zip up..

Offline Ai

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Okay, try drawing again. Let me know if it does or not.

Nope, no apparent change in behaviour.
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Offline AlexHW

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Okay, try it again.. I think it will draw this time. Let me know whether it does or not.

Offline Ai

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Nope, sorry, it doesn't.
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Offline AlexHW

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Okay.. Try now.
btw, when you say it doesn't work. It doesn't update when you draw right?

Offline Ai

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Precisely. A situation which continues with this latest update.
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Offline AlexHW

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Okay, thanks.. Try it again. All these tests should be done in the alexhw.com/pixeledit page, if that wasn't apparent already.
Just have to keep stepping through things until the problem is isolated. unfortunately it is a repetitive process. Let me know if it draws/updates.

Offline Ai

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Same story as last time -- draws okay, canvas doesn't update.
If you insist on being pessimistic about your own abilities, consider also being pessimistic about the accuracy of that pessimistic judgement.

Offline AlexHW

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okay, thanks.. try it again, let me know if it updates.

Offline Ai

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Draws okay, doesn't update, as before.
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Offline AlexHW

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Okay I tried something different. let me know what it does now.

Offline Ai

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Yes! This one updates the canvas properly.
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Offline AlexHW

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Okay, good. The problem may be in a different section of code than originally thought. I tried re-enabling something. Let me know if it still works now. If it still works, then I may have solved the issue.. If it doesn't work, then the issue is most likely in the section of code I re-enabled.

Offline Ai

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Yes, that still works!
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Offline AlexHW

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Yes, that still works!
Great!.. Okay.. I re-enabled everything except for one thing, while adjusting what I think is the problem.. Let me know if it still works now. Also the secondary viewport should work too since I re-enabled that. *crosses-fingers"

Offline Ai

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That seems to be broken again -- no secondary viewport, and the primary viewport does not update. Verified in Firefox and Midori. In chromium, the primary view updates ok (albeit slowly), but the secondary view is not visible.

I'm beginning to suspect caching issues, so I've been forcing reloads on more recent tests (my last 4 posts here, and this one)
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Offline AlexHW

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:\ okay. I disabled the secondary viewport. Let me know if it draws/updates on the primary viewport.
If it does, then we'll re-enable the secondary viewport one section at a time.

Offline Ai

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Now we're back to the old story. sort of:

* alexhw.com/pixeledit has no secondary view, as you specified, and the primary view does not update.

* www.pixel.tools has a secondary view; the primary view doesn't update; the secondary view does update, but as soon as I change the view level it stops updating

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Offline AlexHW

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okay, how about now? I'm only updating the alexhw.com/pixeledit page.
And to clarify, when you say it isn't updating, you mean it isn't drawing while you drag the mouse?

Offline Ai

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Thanks, wasn't sure. When things weren't quite how you were expecting, I decided to try both.

I mean it is drawing when I click+drag (as reflected in the thumbnail view), but the canvas does not reflect these changes.

As to the latest update:
Canvas updates fine now; Secondary view is not shown. Eyedropper works fine (unlike the old behaviour of picking black always)

« Last Edit: August 14, 2014, 09:36:31 am by Ai »
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Offline AlexHW

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Okay, try it now. The only stuff disabled now is related with the secondary viewport.
Do you actually see the line being drawn when you draw a stroke, or does it wait to show the stroke after you release the mouse button?

Offline Ai

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That doesn't update, now.

In cases where I have said the display updates correctly, I see the line being plotted as i move the mouse pointer, not only once I release it.
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Offline AlexHW

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okay.. now try it.. let me know if the primary and the seconday viewports work.

Offline Ai

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* does not update main viewport
* secondary viewport not visible. Changing zoom does not effect this.
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Offline AlexHW

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okay, how about now? does the primary viewport update?

Offline Ai

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Yes, the primary viewport and the colordex updates fine, the secondary viewport remains not-visible.
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Offline AlexHW

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okay, try again for me.. let me know if both viewports update.

Offline Ai

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Same story as last time: primary viewport and colordex update okay, secondary is not visible and tweaking its options does not make it become visible. Verified in FF and Midori.

Out of curiosity, is there currently any way to generate intermediate colors (eg. for Colordex usage)? I tried generating an intermediate color using GPick (which yields standard RGB hex colors), but DnD onto the color panel showing the current color doesn't really work(acts like the color is a url I want to go to). Not too surprising, I get the impression DnD in relation to the web is kind of tricky.

I suppose it can sort-of be done via colordex loading. BTW I think I glitched the colordex somehow, by selecting the brush tool and alt-clicking in the colordex. after that a)both the brush tool and the pencil tool were simultaneously shown as active, and b) ctrl+clicking on color regions in the colordex erased them. My solution for now involves *not alt-clicking* ;)
Haven't got the brush tool to do anything useful yet, but I guess I just need to reread the instructions and experiment.

I was going to ask if the colordex system is based on straightforward spatial movement through the colordex pixels according to the set start and end points, because that seemed too simple to be true, but I guess I've asked enough questions for now.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 04:30:27 am by Ai »
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Offline AlexHW

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Same story as last time: primary viewport and colordex update okay, secondary is not visible and tweaking its options does not make it become visible. Verified in FF and Midori.

Out of curiosity, is there currently any way to generate intermediate colors (eg. for Colordex usage)? I tried generating an intermediate color using GPick (which yields standard RGB hex colors), but DnD onto the color panel showing the current color doesn't really work(acts like the color is a url I want to go to). Not too surprising, I get the impression DnD in relation to the web is kind of tricky.

I suppose it can sort-of be done via colordex loading. BTW I think I glitched the colordex somehow, by selecting the brush tool and alt-clicking in the colordex. after that a)both the brush tool and the pencil tool were simultaneously shown as active, and b) ctrl+clicking on color regions in the colordex erased them. My solution for now involves *not alt-clicking* ;) But I was curious, the brush tool implementation is incomplete right now, yes? (so far, whatever I have done, I got it to either a) have no effect at all when drawing, or b) plot black, all the black, and nothing but the black.

okay, try now and see if both viewports update..

as for the colordex thing, there's no current way to generate intermediate colors.
hm, that's odd.. I just tried to use the colordex and it doesn't work for me either. I wonder if something I implemented recently affected it..
edit: oops.. it actually works or me, I had forgotten how to use it :P
uhm.. if you alt click in the colordex, that should eyedop the colors, if you eyedrop an empty space itll eyedrop black..
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 04:58:49 am by AlexHW »

Offline Ai

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I may have made a mistake when doing the last test -- I just realized I can get the Secondary view window to appear using Window->Secondary view, so possibly I could have gotten the Secondary window working in my last round of testing if I had realized this.

On this round of testing, main view and colordex are fine, and secondary is .. different.
When drawing, it is updated correctly; When the button is released to end drawing, it is cleared to transparent.
Adjusting zoom of secondary view works (secondary view continues to update per description above)
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Offline AlexHW

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I may have made a mistake when doing the last test -- I just realized I can get the Secondary view window to appear using Window->Secondary view, so possibly I could have gotten the Secondary window working in my last round of testing if I had realized this.

On this round of testing, main view and colordex are fine, and secondary is .. different.
When drawing, it is updated correctly; When the button is released to end drawing, it is cleared to transparent.
Adjusting zoom of secondary view works (secondary view continues to update per description above)

okay, good.. try it now to see if the strokes stay in the secondary view..
btw,  edited my previous post incase you didn't see.. I had forgotten how to use the colordex which is why I thought it wasn't working for me, but it is working for me now that I remember how to use it..

Offline AlexHW

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I was going to ask if the colordex system is based on straightforward spatial movement through the colordex pixels according to the set start and end points, because that seemed too simple to be true, but I guess I've asked enough questions for now.
yea, it scans the pixels, finding blobs of color, ordering them into a list, and uses this data when you draw over other colors that the list relates with. I generalized the explanation, but it is fairly straightforward.

edit: if that colordex issue for you is reproducible, and only happens with a certain set of colors, maybe you could export an image of it so I can see how you have the colors organized. It might be something related to the complexity of your color ramps.. but I'm only guessing.. Otherwise it might be something weird if it was an accidental thing.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 05:17:25 am by AlexHW »

Offline Ai

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Looks like a winner! The colordex, primary view, and secondary view all update promptly, and adjusting zoom works fine on both of them. Verified also on Chromium.

AFAICS the colordex glitch is not dependent on a particular set of colors, but seems to occur like this:

1. accidentally plot color on the colordex while attempting to set start/end position, turning eg a run of darkblue-purple-pink-white into darkblue-purple-pink-white-darkblue
2. Successfully set start or end position, so that the run encompassed is the aforementioned accidentally-modified one which begins and ends with the same color
3. Script becomes confused and eats a lot of CPU time
4. Firefox becomes enraged and kills script
5. Area of colordex is erased (I'm guessing this is due to the colordex analysis being temporarily destructive to the colordex, and the script being interrupted before it can be restored)

This can probably be largely avoided using the colordex lock, though I guess you probably also want to incorporate a check for the pathological case where a ramp contains a color more than once non-contiguously.


Thanks for the explanation. Yeah, now that I think about it, straight spatial movement wouldn't exactly work because colors are not guaranteed to be unique, even after compressing runs of the same color.

On the generating inbetween colors thing, I guess I'll just go with GIMP's Pencil tool on a colordex export for now, since GIMP accepts color DnD.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 05:53:46 am by Ai »
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Offline AlexHW

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Okay, now we need to re-enable some stuff one by one to see if the issue was addressed.. Let me know if it still works now.

As for the colordex bug.. I wasn't able to reproduce that specific way of messing it up, but I was able to mess it up by pressing ctrl and alt a lot while clicking around randomly.. I'll have to see if there is any way to prevent this sort of thing. But yea, when it is forced to stop calculating the colordex, it will end up removing whatever color it was currently traversing..

Offline Ai

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Yep, that still works fine.
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Offline AlexHW

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okay, good.. try now, let me know if everything works still.

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Now :
* secondary view updates, but changing zoom stops it updating
* primary view does not update, nor colordex

Note that there is no official Wacom web plugin for Linux, so the sidebar warning about this may not make sense on Linux.

FWIW the unofficial Wacom web plugin -- https://github.com/ZaneA/WacomWebPlugin -- may work for Wacoms (I haven't got one to test whether it does), but does not appear to work for other tablets -- eg Monoprice, which is UC-LOGIC based. The plugin is correctly detected, once I confirm that it's okay for alexhw.com to access it, but it a) crashes during drawing and b) does not appear to detect pressure.
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Offline AlexHW

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ok, try it now. let me know if everything works.
That wacom plugin looks interesting- I'll have to look into that and see if I can implement it.

Offline Ai

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Everything works okay now: primary and secondary canvas update, changing zoom works for both, drawing on colordex updates correctly..
Hell, since you said everything, I'll try some other stuff:

* All items in select menu appear to work, when I manage to actually 'click' them instead of dragging the window around
* Actually, that's a general issue with using the menus, they detect drags rather eagerly, though I don't know if anything can be done about this on the Javascript end.
* Copy and paste work as expected, as does Insert clipart (well, I wasn't sure what to expect with Insert Clipart, but the way it works makes reasonable sense)
* I'm not sure I understand playback correctly .. I expected this to play my 2-frame animation, but it prompted me for a file.
* Actually, I see now that animation playback is controlled by a button on the Frames window, which appears to work fine.
* frame 'links' appear to work as intended, affecting the display if it is set to linked
* I found the frame/layer opacity control but I couldn't find a way to reorder frames, I guess this is either disabled or not implemented yet.
* Undo navigation works okay but occasionally causes the update of the primary viewport to be disabled (I THINK. If this is not the cause on its own, it may involve manipulating undo history and then changing primary viewport display mode to Frame). It can be reenabled by resizing the primary viewport.
* Magic wand -- allows me to freely drag around the selection. This is a GREAT tool, but not at all what I was expecting from the name or icon.
* Lasso works fine. I'd just like to suggest the option of using Winding aka Nonzero fill rule instead of even-odd (the result of this is that no selection ever has a hole in it.). This is natively supported by most polygon rasterizers I know of.
* The Tile, Remove Tile, and Collision tools don't function usefully. I guess I have to setup tiles first ;)
* Zoom tool works okay; I'm not sure precisely what hand is supposed to do -- Just control where the canvas is shown? If that's it, it's working fine.
* Clicking on the canvas to draw during animation is equivalent to using Hand tool. This is understandable, but nonetheless, kind of surprising and hilarious.
* Eraser and colorpicker work
* Magic eraser and brush work, I guess? Maybe I don't understand the colordex well enough yet, I get a sort of colordexy output but I don't seem to reliably be able to move towards one color or the other. I consider this PEBCAK.
* Palette scan works, in either mode
* Export seems to work okay, both PNG and GIF, as do Open and Save.
* Grid appears to work (it's just an overlay, right, it has no active function like snapping?)
* soo. I think that leaves Playback, and New from Playback, which I basically just don't understand so I can't meaningfully test.
* EDIT: Oh, and I saw that middle-click-to-pan was added a few weeks ago (looking at the PJ thread), so I tested that.. It doesn't work for me

Re: wacom plugin:

The unofficial plugin is designed to have the same api as the official, so hopefully there shouldn't be much work involved in supporting it fully. Installing it is already enough to get rid of the warning message.

EDIT: I see that, from your posts on PJ, colordex actually constructs an ordered adjacency graph of the colors. Dunno if that's good for anyone else, but that is the most straightforward explanation of actual colordex function from my POV.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 12:43:08 pm by Ai »
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Offline AlexHW

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Okay, I re-enabled everything now. Check to see if the alexhw.com/pixeledit page still allows you to draw to the primary viewport and also if the secondary viewport updates as well.

About the middle mouse button- I haven't added that to this page- only added it to the pixel.tools page, so that's why it doesn't work for you. But if the primary/secondary viewports still works, I'll make the changes to the main site..
Thanks for testing all those other things, even though it wasn't entirely necessary- it's good to know those are functioning.
The playback prompts you for the file that you've saved (a file with a .pxl extension).. Because when you draw, it records each step, and when you save it out by going to file>save.. it will save all that data into a format that the editor can load. Choosing playback will load it up ready to replay the entire process you took creating the image, whereas choosing load will just load it up ready for continuing work on the image.
Yea, I could probably remove the drag ability of the menus so that it doesn't become an issue with clicking them.. Or maybe I can find a way to make it less troublesome, like having some stickiness to the drag so it doesn't drag right away.
actually, now that I think about it, I can probably fix it.. the buttons probably are somehow telling it to drag when they shouldn't be.
reordering frames is done by selecting the frames you want to reorder, and then clicking&dragging a frame's handle (the left opaque bit next to the frame)
not sure what the issue is with the undos.. might be related to undoing something that was on another layer, and that layer being hidden so it doesn't look as if anything changes..
grid should have snapping if you select something and hold ctrl while you move it.
what were you expecting form the magic wand tool?


« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 02:11:34 pm by AlexHW »

Offline Ai

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Everything still works fine, except a Grid bug.

* Grid bug report: I clicked to enable the grid, and it was shown. I selected Marquee tool and CTRL+Clicked. The grid disappeared and the primary viewport stopped responding (does not update, and actually does not draw at all, as evidenced in the secondary view which remains functional). Probably because of this, attempts to reset the selection in case that was the problem failed. Possibly the secondary canvas actually isn't updating.. as items appear in the undo history when I attempt to draw, even though they don't seem to actually be drawn.
* Now that I know to drag the side bit rather than the whole thumbnail, frame rearrangement is working fine for me
* I was expecting magic wand to be a tool for selecting contiguous or similar region(s) of color, much as it is in GIMP and Photoshop. This is rather reinforced by the appearance of an option 'contiguous' next to the color selector.
* Oh, file->playback is a history playback, ok, thanks.
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Offline AlexHW

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The magic wand should allow that functionality by toggling the contiguous button. There's no threshold setting for it though, so it only selects the exact same color.
About the grid bug.. What happens if you don't hold ctrl, and just make selections? Did you make a selection before ctrl clicked, or was there no selection made when you did it?
Could you have the console open when the bug occurs to see if any errors pop up when it happens?


EDIT: Okay, I modified something.. I'm wondering if you still get the bug now.. If you don't, then that means I'll have to go through all the files and change something. If it works, that means the issue happens due to using the same variable name for looping through certain things..
« Last Edit: August 16, 2014, 12:54:23 am by AlexHW »

Offline Ai

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The magic wand should allow that functionality by toggling the contiguous button. There's no threshold setting for it though, so it only selects the exact same color.
This is true, but it's also true that when you click near the current selection with contiguous on, you move the selection instead. I had tried toggling contiguous before but hadn't picked up that this was what I was doing different. Personally I don't understand the reason for this behaviour (rather than having contiguous ONLY make selections, and non-contiguous ONLY move them)

Quote
About the grid bug.. What happens if you don't hold ctrl, and just make selections? Did you make a selection before ctrl clicked, or was there no selection made when you did it?
There was no selection IIRC.
Not pressing control worked fine.

Quote
Could you have the console open when the bug occurs to see if any errors pop up when it happens?
Yes, there are no errors shown

Quote
EDIT: Okay, I modified something.. I'm wondering if you still get the bug now.. If you don't, then that means I'll have to go through all the files and change something. If it works, that means the issue happens due to using the same variable name for looping through certain things..
The bug still occurs. I can be more specific -- it's reliably reproducable for me using these steps:

1. ensure Grid is enabled
2. select Marquee tool
3. make a reasonably large selection
4. Control-click on the selection -> grid disappears.

HTH.
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Offline AlexHW

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hm.. thanks. I had someone else try it because they use linux, and it wasn't drawing for them- they had the previous problem where it would draw a short bit and then stop.. so, I think I'm going to have to pull out my old desktop and try to get linux on it so that I can hopefully reproduce this stuff as it appears to be a common issue on linux- that way I'll be able to hack away at it and hopefully figure a solution out. :(

Offline AlexHW

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OKAY!..
I tried a virtual machine like many people have been suggesting.. I managed to find the bug and fix it.
If you go to http://www.pixel.tools/ it should now work and you can draw on the canvas, etc..
the issue was:
Code: [Select]
ctx.setLineDash([0]);has to be this instead:
Code: [Select]
ctx.setLineDash([]);While fixing that, I found another bug with the colordex that was causing it to not work, so I fixed that. The colordex should now work as expected. In order to use it, you have to Hold ctrl and click to make the Circle on a color, and the Big square OFF of a color(in the transparent space), and drag the smaller square onto a color.. This will allow you to draw from transparent space.. If you already have color laid down and want to modify it without drawing into transparent space, make the big square on a color instead..
The confusion I have had in the past is thinking I need the big square ontop of a color and the little square off of the color.. Perhaps there is a more intuitive method, and if anyone has suggestions, feel free to share them!
ALSO.. if anyone does find other bugs, let me know! I haven't tested everything on linux.

Offline Ai

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That all works for me :D

Except the colordex, but I suspect I don't understand how to make that work properly anyway. I painted a 4 step gradient darkgreen - green - pastel orange - white across the colordex, but I only seem to be able to effect pixels that are currently green, and set them to either darkgreen or white according to the order of circle/square? Or strength setting in brush? Both seem to effect things, but anyhow, the point is that I cannot seem to get either of the intermediates: green, and pastel orange, out of a drawing operation.
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Offline AlexHW

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That all works for me :D

Except the colordex, but I suspect I don't understand how to make that work properly anyway. I painted a 4 step gradient darkgreen - green - pastel orange - white across the colordex, but I only seem to be able to effect pixels that are currently green, and set them to either darkgreen or white according to the order of circle/square? Or strength setting in brush? Both seem to effect things, but anyhow, the point is that I cannot seem to get either of the intermediates: green, and pastel orange, out of a drawing operation.

Good to hear it's drawing for you.
As to the Colordex.. Make sure your softness setting on your brush is adjusted so that the brush has a blurry edge in the little preview box. Also set the Steps for the brush. The steps essentially control how many intermediate colors get drawn while you make a stroke. The Softness controls how tight or spread out those steps/colors are.. The strength level controls the overall extent to push the colors..
Try fiddling with all those together to get the colordex working.

Offline Ai

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Ah, I have it working now, that info about strength was key.. Before, I couldn't figure out what strength was supposed to actually do.



A simple suggestion for colordex: a way to paint with the positions of the two cursors swapped. Either via a 'swap' button on the colordex window, or rightclicking instead of leftclicking ( I take this idea from GraFX2's qshade feature, where you select a palette range and you can then leftclick-paint to move colors through that range in one direction , and rightclick-paint to move colors through that range in the other direction)
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Offline AlexHW

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Cool, glad that helped. I'm thinking the whole Colordex system really needs some better explanations.
I also have an idea for the placing the Square. I should make it so it doesn't matter whether the small or large square is on or off a color as long as at least one of them is on a color (because I always get that confused).

Your suggestion is interesting, I hadn't thought of that.. I'm sure you can Alt+Click a color in the viewport to eyedrop it, and if you eyedrop the opposite end of the color scale, it should act like you describe. It may not be as quick as a left/right button click, but I tend to use the Alt key a lot to change colors since most of my colors are already in the image.
hm.. but it might be cool to implement that feature as well- I'll see what can be done about that.

Offline Ai

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Cool, glad that helped. I'm thinking the whole Colordex system really needs some better explanations.
Yeah, I think it needs some kind of simple visual tutorial, reading the text explanation on the page was not sufficient to get me using it successfully.

I still struggle a bit with the strength -- for some colors, I need to boost the strength to make them show up instead of getting stuck at the step before; others, I need to reduce it to avoid overshooting. Is this dependent on the proportions of colors in the colordex, or the level of difference between consecutive colors in the ramp?

Quote
Your suggestion is interesting, I hadn't thought of that.. I'm sure you can Alt+Click a color in the viewport to eyedrop it, and if you eyedrop the opposite end of the color scale, it should act like you describe.
Hm, I see, that's quite flexible although a little less controllable than GrafX2 (due to the possibility of affecting colors not in the active ramp). More like lowered opacity painting.
Related UI tweak suggestion: Allow colordex to be eyedropped from even when it is locked.

Quote
It may not be as quick as a left/right button click, but I tend to use the Alt key a lot to change colors since most of my colors are already in the image.

I kept trying it and it didn't work. Then I realized only the left Alt need apply, and that worked fine.
(I think this is because right alt actually generates a different keysym, AltGr, on this keyboard layout.)
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Offline AlexHW

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The number of steps a color shifts; it takes into account the strength/opacity of the brush that is currently over the pixel.. So if you have the strength all the way up to 100% and there isn't any softening then the whole brush will shift any color that can be shifted 100% towards the primary color. If the brush is set to 50%, then based upon where the colors reside in the color ramp, each one will shift 50% from where they are located towards the primary color(or the eyedropped color)..
So if you have a softened brush where the edges are faded, the edges have less strength and thus shift the colors less. It's a pretty simply process.

Hm, I see, that's quite flexible although a little less controllable than GrafX2 (due to the possibility of affecting colors not in the active ramp). More like lowered opacity painting.

Not sure I understand. How is it affecting colors not in the active ramp? If colors are changing, then they are in the active ramp. If you don't want colors affected, make sure they don't connect to the ramp in any way. You can have multiple ramps in the Colordex separated by blank space to control things more.

NICE CATCH with the issue of not being able to colorpick when the colordex is locked. I went and fixed that so that should now work.

as for right alt.. yea, must be your keyboard, maybe try testing it at this page: http://www.cambiaresearch.com/articles/15/javascript-char-codes-key-codes
and let me know what the key codes are for both your Alt keys if they're different, I can probably add it in.

But yea, I was thinking about the switching/flipping feature for the right mouse button. It might not be so straightforward to implement since it is designed to seek the primary color end rather than the opposite end.. Think of it like rivers that flow down and converge together before finally reaching the sea. Each color is essentially finding a way, so flipping that, and you have to recalculate the flow of everything.
It's possible to force it to recalculate it though, since the ending points are set in the colordex- it's a matter of grabbing those, swapping them and calculating it. I'm not sure how efficient it would be to do that really quickly multiple times though if you're clicking left and right constantly if the ramps have been organized in some crazy way. I know it can get slow if there are a ton of colors it has to calculate..
I'll continue thinking about it though because I like the idea behind it. Not quite sure how useful it would be yet, I guess I'd have to see it in action to understand it better.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2014, 03:47:51 pm by AlexHW »

Offline Ai

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Hm, I see, that's quite flexible although a little less controllable than GrafX2 (due to the possibility of affecting colors not in the active ramp). More like lowered opacity painting.

Not sure I understand. How is it affecting colors not in the active ramp? If colors are changing, then they are in the active ramp. If you don't want colors affected, make sure they don't connect to the ramp in any way. You can have multiple ramps in the Colordex separated by blank space to control things more.
Hm, ok.The colordex is kind of small for that though so I might end up doing it via export-GIMP-import.
My habits are probably just overly tuned to GrafX2 QShade, since I use that a lot.

Quote
as for right alt.. yea, must be your keyboard, maybe try testing it at this page: http://www.cambiaresearch.com/articles/15/javascript-char-codes-key-codes
and let me know what the key codes are for both your Alt keys if they're different, I can probably add it in.
Same keycode for both, so I would bet on it being something my window manager is interfering with. Oh well.

Quote
But yea, I was thinking about the switching/flipping feature for the right mouse button. It might not be so straightforward to implement since it is designed to seek the primary color end rather than the opposite end.. Think of it like rivers that flow down and converge together before finally reaching the sea. Each color is essentially finding a way, so flipping that, and you have to recalculate the flow of everything.
It's possible to force it to recalculate it though, since the ending points are set in the colordex- it's a matter of grabbing those, swapping them and calculating it. I'm not sure how efficient it would be to do that really quickly multiple times though if you're clicking left and right constantly if the ramps have been organized in some crazy way. I know it can get slow if there are a ton of colors it has to calculate..
Oh, I didn't have any idea what kind of size the colordex cache was, I just figured you might be able to cache both the reversed and unreversed versions, and use whichever is appropriate. so that drawing speed remains constant

Quote
I'll continue thinking about it though because I like the idea behind it. Not quite sure how useful it would be yet, I guess I'd have to see it in action to understand it better.

Not 100% sure on what you're looking for here, but I recorded a demo of how the feature works in GrafX2, with an OSD showing whether I'm left or right clicking. I had to reencode to change the framerate so it's a bit blurry, but legible enough for these purposes IMO.

(for some reason rightclicks are showing as middle clicks.. Maybe I -was- middle clicking -- GrafX2 treats mclick and rclick the same IIRC.)

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Offline AlexHW

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I've been thinking of allowing larger size for the Colordex- that shouldn't be too difficult to modify.
As to the reversing the active color ramp; I realized after posting that it could be done the way you describe.
It has been suggested also that the right mouse button should be used for a secondary color that you can pick..
I'm wondering what your thoughts on that would be.
Here's what I'm thinking:
Have a secondary color. So where it previews the color to the right of the color sliders, there would be two boxes instead of one, and you can adjust either one.
When using the pencil tool, left clicking applies the primary while right clicking applies the secondary.
When using the brush tool with the Colordex, you can set two ramps- one that works with the left click and the other with the right click.. So you could essentially set it up to be a mirror of each other, or you can have completely separate ramps for more creativity.
I think that would allow more customizable applications since you wouldn't be limited to just a reversed version.

Offline Ai

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I've been thinking of allowing larger size for the Colordex- that shouldn't be too difficult to modify.
That reminds me of a hilariously stupid glitch I caused earlier, where the colordex window suddenly expanded to fill the entire browser display. (It was not drawable on, sadly). I didn't post it until now because I didn't manage to reliably reproduce it.


Quote
As to the reversing the active color ramp; I realized after posting that it could be done the way you describe.
It has been suggested also that the right mouse button should be used for a secondary color that you can pick..
I'm wondering what your thoughts on that would be.
Here's what I'm thinking:
Have a secondary color. So where it previews the color to the right of the color sliders, there would be two boxes instead of one, and you can adjust either one.
When using the pencil tool, left clicking applies the primary while right clicking applies the secondary.
When using the brush tool with the Colordex, you can set two ramps- one that works with the left click and the other with the right click.. So you could essentially set it up to be a mirror of each other, or you can have completely separate ramps for more creativity.
I think that would allow more customizable applications since you wouldn't be limited to just a reversed version.

In regards to basic operations: Seems good. With a 'swap colors' keyboard shortcut, this could accommodate both painting styles (lclick/rclick to paint differing colors, vs lclick always / swap to paint other color - my preferred MO)

Regarding the colordex, that seems very useful, however when I think about what should happen when the lclick/rclick color changes, I'm a bit unsure how this can be made intuitive.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2014, 12:42:36 pm by Ai »
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Offline Drazelic

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So, I just moved to a new wifi network and I'm having trouble connecting, which wasn't an issue before. Does this particular program use a network port that might be blocked on the new wifi?

Offline AlexHW

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So, I just moved to a new wifi network and I'm having trouble connecting, which wasn't an issue before. Does this particular program use a network port that might be blocked on the new wifi?
Yes, port 9000. Your network might be blocking it, which would prevent you from making connections.


EDIT:
Okay, I've implemented a a secondary color.
I also made X key a shortcut for that operation, and made colordex shortcut C key instead (it was using X previously).
Reason for this is because photoshop, and gimp use X for swapping colors, so I figured I should keep it stuff like this similar.
You can also click on the color box next to the color sliders to switch which color you paint with..
This allows you to set two Colordex ramps as well, and also switch between them.
Let me know if anything seems weird with this new stuff.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2014, 10:34:18 pm by AlexHW »

Offline Ai

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Okay:

* the color areas start out uninitialized (by which I mean, transparent, not black -- it's easy to tell because the boxes interlock instead of one overlapping the other.)
* When I click on one or the other of the color panels, it sets the current color. Obviously this is not a bug. What is a bug is that neither of these colors appear to match the default drawing color, so I begin drawing in that green color, then as soon as I go to change the color, both panels become black, rather than one of them being this green. Another initialization bug
* X works okay
* Brush appears to snap to a grid when drawing on colordex now? I think this is helpful.
* Dual colordex ramps appears to work as expected, and the visual indicators are pretty clear.
* Is rightclick supposed to do anything now? (ie did you decide to implement rclick = paint secondary color, or not). It doesn't for me, whether in Pencil or Brush mode.
* I see that the brush outline is drawn in a color complementary to the background. This can be rather jarring when moving over dithering. How about calculating the same color, but mixing it 50/50 with the previous brush outline color, to reduce this jittery effect?
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Offline AlexHW

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Alright, I fixed the initialization of the colors- that should've been addressed a long time ago but I kept putting it off. It also now remembers your previous colors whenever you return to the editor.
Ensuring they get initialized fixes the issue with them becoming black. Also, I fixed a bug I found in the process.
Not sure what you mean with the brush snapping to the grid within the colordex- are you sure that's the case?
Right click doesn't do anything at the moment- I'm still unsure whether to make it used for the secondary color.
I tried your suggestion with the blending of the brush outline with the previous color. Let me know if that looks better.

Offline Ai

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Actually, on close inspection, the behaviour isn't snapping to a 2x2 grid (though that's the usual outcome when not actually painting). I would bet on Firefox performing motion compression on the events arriving from the tablet .. which is consistent with the behaviour of 'strokes faster than a moderate speed become increasingly polygonal'

Anyway, you can see it happening in a  zoomed in view in this 2min video clip, where I continuously move the cursor as little as I can. Was not able to test this with the WacomWebPlugin, as it instantly crashed when I reloaded pixel.tools. Not sure that you can do anything to ask Firefox for uncompressed motion events, so it may be unaddressable from your side.

Yeah, the new brush outline is much less jarring.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2014, 07:36:44 am by Ai »
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Offline AlexHW

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Okay, I fixed that snapping issue. The colordex and secondary viewport were useing the primary viewports zoom value for the brush edge- so it was moving it extra pixels because the primary viewport was zoomed in. That's fixed now.
Is the wacomwebplugin crash related to it not being supported on linux, or do you think it is something related with the editor?

Offline Ai

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Okay, I fixed that snapping issue. The colordex and secondary viewport were useing the primary viewports zoom value for the brush edge- so it was moving it extra pixels because the primary viewport was zoomed in. That's fixed now.
Ah. Yeah, looks good now.
Quote
Is the wacomwebplugin crash related to it not being supported on linux, or do you think it is something related with the editor?
No idea. Although not being officially supported, I don't see how something notional like that could ever cause a crash. The unofficial plugin might well be buggy -- on my system, crashing appears to be the usual case, not the exceptional one.

Anyway I went and did some testing.

http://www.wacomeng.com/web/TestFBCanvasScribble.html seems to be quite happy -- pretty smooth motion, plugin doesn't crash

http://www.wacomeng.com/web/TestFBPluginTable.html initially crashes. Reloading makes it work reasonably, with the caveat that pressure always remains at 0

It could be down to a few things really. The plugin could not play well with EvDev-based tablet drivers, it could just be buggy (IMO if a software crashes, it is always that software's responsibility, even if said crash occurred as a side effect of the behaviour of other system elements). There's really no reason to assume that pixel.tools is responsible.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2014, 08:28:13 am by Ai »
If you insist on being pessimistic about your own abilities, consider also being pessimistic about the accuracy of that pessimistic judgement.

Offline AlexHW

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Thanks for that info, Ai.

I've finally got around to creating a video that demonstrates how to setup and use the Colordex.
http://youtu.be/QGLg-N9RT44

Also, I adjusted the system so that as long as either the big square or little square is off a color, then it'll work (before it would only work in transparent space if the big square was off, which sometimes made things confusing).

Offline AlexHW

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Okay, I finally got around to uploading it to Github for those who keep asking.
https://github.com/prominentdetail/Pixel.Tools
Hope we can all collaborate together on this to improve it and make it the best pixel editor out there!

Offline MasqueradeFisher

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Yo, the website is down BTW