AuthorTopic: Young pixel artist looking for critique!  (Read 10687 times)

Offline LarkoftheRiver

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Young pixel artist looking for critique!

on: June 30, 2014, 04:53:39 pm
Hello all! I'm a young pixel artist seeking critique and advice on my work. I have been pixeling for about a year, and would like to know if any of you have opinions on how I should proceed in progressing.

Pixels are from oldest to newest.









(my icon and favorite)



Thank you so much for looking! I look forward to hearing from you!

Offline Fizzick

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Re: Young pixel artist looking for critique!

Reply #1 on: June 30, 2014, 05:20:14 pm
If you want to develop as an artist, broaden your efforts towards more than just one kind of animal. It would be best if you did even more than just animals! Do landscapes and humans and vehicles and little objects and all kinds of things.

Also, your colors could use a bit of work. The number of colors you use next to eachother creates an impression of noise, which can look worse than clear shapes. I'll try to pop you an edit when I get on my comp.  ;D

Offline Drazelic

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Re: Young pixel artist looking for critique!

Reply #2 on: June 30, 2014, 05:27:44 pm
Try focusing less on texturing, and more on form. Your latest sprites seem to be pretty heavily defined by their textures, but when you ignore the noise and look at the underlying shape a lot of it doesn't make sense. For example, the wolf next to the river has a really inconsistent lighting scheme; the torso is seemingly pillowshaded while the legs and tail are shaded as if the lightsource were coming from the left or right of the screen.

Working on pixel-fundamentals would also help. You've got a lot of jaggies in a lot of your lineart; taking the time to make sure your lines are clean and well-made before you go any further would be an extremely easy way to improve your work's quality immensely.

Also, want to show us the process by which you make your sprites? Seeing how you go about that might be helpful.

Offline LarkoftheRiver

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Re: Young pixel artist looking for critique!

Reply #3 on: June 30, 2014, 05:36:31 pm
Thank you both for the replies and critiques!

If you want to develop as an artist, broaden your efforts towards more than just one kind of animal. It would be best if you did even more than just animals! Do landscapes and humans and vehicles and little objects and all kinds of things.

Also, your colors could use a bit of work. The number of colors you use next to eachother creates an impression of noise, which can look worse than clear shapes. I'll try to pop you an edit when I get on my comp.  ;D
I would love to broaden my horizons as an artist, and I've been doing some humans (not pixeled, painted or cartoon mostly). Once I feel good with them I will try pixels. ^^

Keep the number of colors down, got it! So, form a pallet for shading and coloring before I actually do it? Thanks in advance for the edit as well!


Try focusing less on texturing, and more on form. Your latest sprites seem to be pretty heavily defined by their textures, but when you ignore the noise and look at the underlying shape a lot of it doesn't make sense. For example, the wolf next to the river has a really inconsistent lighting scheme; the torso is seemingly pillowshaded while the legs and tail are shaded as if the lightsource were coming from the left or right of the screen.

Working on pixel-fundamentals would also help. You've got a lot of jaggies in a lot of your lineart; taking the time to make sure your lines are clean and well-made before you go any further would be an extremely easy way to improve your work's quality immensely.

Also, want to show us the process by which you make your sprites? Seeing how you go about that might be helpful.
Okay, thanks! I'll keep that in mind. More consistent shading technique and style, then? I'll also practice on my lines.
I'll make a simple sprite and take screenshots of my process in a moment for you as well. ^^ Thank you!

Edit- Process with this simple guy.



Not exactly sure if that's what you meant, but that's basically my process.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 06:59:08 pm by LarkoftheRiver »

Offline Fizzick

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Re: Young pixel artist looking for critique!

Reply #4 on: June 30, 2014, 07:57:29 pm
That's a tutorial, you want critique righ?

Offline LarkoftheRiver

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Re: Young pixel artist looking for critique!

Reply #5 on: June 30, 2014, 08:00:12 pm
That was mainly a reply to Drazelic, who asked for my process when doing a sprite. I kind of turned it into a tutorial on accident (I felt the need to explain myself a bit), but yeah, critique is very welcome and I would love for your imput on my finished work and process!

Offline Fizzick

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Re: Young pixel artist looking for critique!

Reply #6 on: June 30, 2014, 08:08:01 pm
Ok. Your process is pretty damn complex for what you're making. I would work on creating a nice little palette from scratch beforehand, 3 to 5 colors or more (depending on subject). You can fiddle with the palette through the process, but for something like an umbreon sprite id just take those and brush it out, then refine the pixel clusters and be done. The glowing is an addition you could probably accomplish with three frames.
Also, your highlights seem to mostly be of the edge of the sprite. Try to put them where the light really would catch the most instead of just on some edges that are closest to the light source.

Offline LarkoftheRiver

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Re: Young pixel artist looking for critique!

Reply #7 on: June 30, 2014, 08:12:03 pm
i also didn't realize it got cut off until just now I hope I don't get penalized for that  I will definitely try the highlights with the next sprite, same with the pallet. Thanks for the input!

Offline Fizzick

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Re: Young pixel artist looking for critique!

Reply #8 on: June 30, 2014, 08:13:16 pm
Go back and fix mistakes to develop!

Edit,

Said that because it can get tiring to make a whole new sprite when you want to do something better. If it works for you go ahead

Also, this time do a tree or a house or something.

Offline Drazelic

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Re: Young pixel artist looking for critique!

Reply #9 on: June 30, 2014, 08:17:03 pm
You're still sort of relying on texture, in the sense that, in the example workflow you gave, the black color-ramp alone used like 6 colors if you include the black outlines. Try forcing yourself not to do that, working with only 3 or 4 colors and trying to achieve a cel-shaded look. Focusing just on the stomach-region of the animal, your shading seems to be almost a gradient; you're trying to shade realistically but in reality you're just picking the side of the silhouette closest to the lightsource and then generating a gradient based on what you consider the light end and dark end of the shape. Focus on form; force yourself to draw in terms of concrete lines differentiating the light sections and dark sections, instead of your current wibbly-wobbly attempts to avoid committing to discrete regions with texture and weird almost-dithering techniques.

Consider using less outlines as well. On sprites that small, an outline is a lot of space, so to speak. You can still achieve meaningful separation of regions by making them different in contrast and color, removing the need to use the blunt sledgehammer-like tool that is heavy outlining.

Generally speaking, outlines are part of the work itself, but you seem to be rendering them as if they were separate from the internal coloring- a phenomenon which seems like you're 'afraid' to touch the sacrosanct lineart. Don't be! Lineart is there to help your readability, you don't have to color 'around' the lines or anything. Consider trying some sel-out techniques or even making line-free designs.

Also, I'd recommend you not use NPA tools like luminosity or overlay layers for the moment. Practice working with pure pixel tools; by limiting your own toolset, you restrain yourself in the same way that martial artists might go about their day with training weights. When you get used to limitations, you'll suddenly find that your usage of NPA layers will go from being a crutch you leaned on to a tool that you can utilize to true effectiveness.

(Also, don't be so nervous! It's kind of obvious that you're obsessively formatting your posts and trying to look neat and professional, as if you were presenting yourself in tuxedo to some sort of highly formal event. Don't bother with that, lol. Make yourself comfortable and relax, Pixelation isn't a place with tons of in-group cliques and unspoken rules or anything like that.)

Offline LarkoftheRiver

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Re: Young pixel artist looking for critique!

Reply #10 on: June 30, 2014, 08:29:38 pm
Go back and fix mistakes to develop!

Edit,

Said that because it can get tiring to make a whole new sprite when you want to do something better. If it works for you go ahead

Also, this time do a tree or a house or something.
I'm working on this one's shading mostly, this time I scrapped the shading layers and made a small pallet. I'm having trouble making it three or four colors, though. Here is is so far, thoughts?

I might also pull out something I did at school out of boredom and rework through it; it was a forest scene.


You're still sort of relying on texture, in the sense that, in the example workflow you gave, the black color-ramp alone used like 6 colors if you include the black outlines. Try forcing yourself not to do that, working with only 3 or 4 colors and trying to achieve a cel-shaded look. Focusing just on the stomach-region of the animal, your shading seems to be almost a gradient; you're trying to shade realistically but in reality you're just picking the side of the silhouette closest to the lightsource and then generating a gradient based on what you consider the light end and dark end of the shape. Focus on form; force yourself to draw in terms of concrete lines differentiating the light sections and dark sections, instead of your current wibbly-wobbly attempts to avoid committing to discrete regions with texture and weird almost-dithering techniques.

Consider using less outlines as well. On sprites that small, an outline is a lot of space, so to speak. You can still achieve meaningful separation of regions by making them different in contrast and color, removing the need to use the blunt sledgehammer-like tool that is heavy outlining.

Generally speaking, outlines are part of the work itself, but you seem to be rendering them as if they were separate from the internal coloring- a phenomenon which seems like you're 'afraid' to touch the sacrosanct lineart. Don't be! Lineart is there to help your readability, you don't have to color 'around' the lines or anything. Consider trying some sel-out techniques or even making line-free designs.

Also, I'd recommend you not use NPA tools like luminosity or overlay layers for the moment. Practice working with pure pixel tools; by limiting your own toolset, you restrain yourself in the same way that martial artists might go about their day with training weights. When you get used to limitations, you'll suddenly find that your usage of NPA layers will go from being a crutch you leaned on to a tool that you can utilize to true effectiveness.

(Also, don't be so nervous! It's kind of obvious that you're obsessively formatting your posts and trying to look neat and professional, as if you were presenting yourself in tuxedo to some sort of highly formal event. Don't bother with that, lol. Make yourself comfortable and relax, Pixelation isn't a place with tons of in-group cliques and unspoken rules or anything like that.)
I'll leave the dithering out now, for the time being and see how it works. Do you have any tips for form, though? I will work on the "line blending" (no idea how to put that into words, lol)
I try to look more professional when I first join a site.. I get really nervous on how people will take me so... and especially on a site like this where the majority of the users are older than me.. its really daunting to some extent for me to put my work here...

Edit- Okay, so I went outside my comfort zone and got rid of the lineart and reshaded the entire thing. I'm so glad I did, thanks for the suggestions!

It looks far cleaner and crisp now, probably because I didn't attempt dithering and colored over the lines. Is the form better, just from changing the shading, or will that require redoing the lineart as well? I still think I'm using too many colors too.. but I'm not sure how I can fix that.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 08:51:47 pm by LarkoftheRiver »

Offline Manupix

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Re: Young pixel artist looking for critique!

Reply #11 on: June 30, 2014, 08:58:00 pm
Hi there, welcome =)

Just a few pointers in addition to the good advice you already got:

- check this awesome tuto if you haven't already.

- about palettes: yours are made up of independent 'color ramps'. You need to tweak them into organic, connected palettes, as explained here.



- about shading: I'd remove all 'decorations' on the sprite (yellow marks, red eyes) and shade it the best you can according to a light source. You can then add those back afterwards, but at this point they'll just interfere with the more basic work.
Some peeps find it useful to shade in grayscale and apply color later; you might try that.

Can't wait to see where you're going with this =)

Edit: posted before seeing your last edit.
It's better, but not there yet. Think of the most basic dog shapes, get those right first, add detail later.
It's nowhere near easy, because it supposes you have a clear idea of dog shapes = dog anatomy! Use references, lots of them.
And yes, too many colors. Again, start simple, then add them one by one when you really need them.

Edit edit: your light source is not clearly defined. Could be nice for a diffuse light atmosphere, but you should start with basic sunlight, 45° in the upper left corner ;)
« Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 09:04:22 pm by Manupix »

Offline Drazelic

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Re: Young pixel artist looking for critique!

Reply #12 on: June 30, 2014, 09:08:04 pm
(also don't work on a white or transparent background, work with a solid medium-tone-greyish background layer and add transparency in later. right now because you have a white background, the lighter top of the dog's back is blending with the background and creating an undesirable banding-ish effect.)

What manupix said. Also, working with black is hard, as far as form goes, because everything's kind of dark. For the sake of tutorializing, it's way easier for you to do something in a medium-tone so you've got more freedom to move around with regards to the value of your colors.



See how much easier it is to see the form of a thing with a light base color, rather than a dark base color?

Offline LarkoftheRiver

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Re: Young pixel artist looking for critique!

Reply #13 on: June 30, 2014, 09:12:21 pm
Changed the background from white to gray, thanks!

Here's what I have so far.

I'm still really struggling with the color pallet though, and I think part of that is because I've always used a bunch of colors for my digital cartoonish things and paintings.

Should I go ahead and pick a new subject and make the colors lighter?

Offline Manupix

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Re: Young pixel artist looking for critique!

Reply #14 on: June 30, 2014, 09:17:55 pm
Should I go ahead and pick a new subject ?

Nope, keep working on it until you get it right!  :mean:

BUT, it's ok to take a break working on something else for a while, or not working at all. There's no hurry, you won't fix it in the next hour ;)
« Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 09:27:50 pm by Manupix »

Offline LarkoftheRiver

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Re: Young pixel artist looking for critique!

Reply #15 on: June 30, 2014, 09:20:35 pm
Okay yes sir.

I'm trying to think about the form here before I fix my pallet issues. I think I'm going to mess with the legs and paws and see what I can do

Offline Manupix

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Re: Young pixel artist looking for critique!

Reply #16 on: June 30, 2014, 09:28:13 pm
OMG YOU'RE MAKING JPEGs NOOOOOOO
Never ever use jpeg for pixel art! Jpeg is a lossy compression format, it messes with your colors, even at highest quality!
Means you can't easily use tools like magic wand or paint bucket, among other problems.
Only use png or gif!

Offline Ambivorous

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Re: Young pixel artist looking for critique!

Reply #17 on: June 30, 2014, 09:30:51 pm
Hi Lark, welcome to Pixelation.

When they say "define the forms" they mean that you should pick one light source and only shade areas where that light can touch on your sprite. This gives the sprite a feeling of 3Dness, almost as though it was rendered from a 3D model. You use your light and dark colour to draw these shapes onto your sprite and it gives the sprite 'form'.

Here's an example using your sprite (I fiddled with the colours for more contrast):


Also for the love of all things holy, never save any pixel art as .jpg ever, please. Always .gif or .png, otherwise it is difficult for us to work on. Edit: Ninja'd.
Otherwise yeah just chill, post some art. Peeps will help if they are able.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 09:32:37 pm by Ambivorous »
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Offline LarkoftheRiver

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Re: Young pixel artist looking for critique!

Reply #18 on: June 30, 2014, 09:36:05 pm
.png
I feel like I just did the unspeakable (and I probably did). I wonder if I learned anything from my fooling in paint so long ago. lol

Okay, so for forms, should I only use one layer of shading, rather than two that I normally do? Should I even highlight at all? this just became so much harder than it was yesterday lol

Edit- Changed a few things with the highlights, and hopefully defined the light source more.

I'm trying to make it shine on the left, in the face.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 09:45:32 pm by LarkoftheRiver »

Offline Drazelic

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Re: Young pixel artist looking for critique!

Reply #19 on: June 30, 2014, 10:57:11 pm
Your light-source still doesn't quite make that much sense. What's that curved highlight in the torso supposed to represent? Because if the lightsource is to the left, any surface that's highlighted would be perpendicular or nearly so to the lightsource, so you'd have, like, a cancerous tumor in the ribcage of this sprite.

Try to avoid small highlights, for the moment. Think big sweeping brushstrokes rather than little dotted highlight points. Ambivorous's edit is a pretty good example of what you might want to shoot for.

Offline Fizzick

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Re: Young pixel artist looking for critique!

Reply #20 on: July 01, 2014, 12:24:02 am
You're still using highlights on random edges. This pokemon is not made up of bladed edges- it is a soft thing. It would probably not even have such bright highlights unless wet.

Offline Fizzick

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Re: Young pixel artist looking for critique!

Reply #21 on: July 01, 2014, 12:41:45 am

six colors. a bit sloppy in some spots since it's quick but i hope you get the idea.

edit:
ambivorous did great with the shading, especially neck and tail. listen to him! do exercises with only a very few colors. your understanding of light and shadow will improve much faster.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2014, 12:44:35 am by Fizzick »

Offline LarkoftheRiver

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Re: Young pixel artist looking for critique!

Reply #22 on: July 01, 2014, 01:25:38 pm
I redid the shading, and dulled down the highlights. I also removed the shading on the yellow markings (they glow, so hey, one less color), and the eyes as well. I am down to six, I believe, which was better than my.. like 10+ yesterday.

Any better, or should I work on refining it more?

Offline Drazelic

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Re: Young pixel artist looking for critique!

Reply #23 on: July 01, 2014, 02:29:38 pm
Stronger contrast! You should be able to immediately see the boundaries between colors. Right now your palette still looks like the same sorta-murky near-black.

Offline LarkoftheRiver

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Re: Young pixel artist looking for critique!

Reply #24 on: July 01, 2014, 02:33:36 pm
So, should I brighten up the base colors and add contrast with that? I don't want to make it too gray looking (the original character is black/dark gray.)

EDIT- Started a request for a friend this morning as well. Felt like posting it here too just to hear you guys' thoughts on it. I managed to use only five colors per animation frame. I'm not going to edit it anymore (I'd rather continue with my sprite), but it would be great to hear opinions.


EDIT 2- More contrast? A bit?
« Last Edit: July 01, 2014, 04:08:33 pm by LarkoftheRiver »

Offline Manupix

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Re: Young pixel artist looking for critique!

Reply #25 on: July 01, 2014, 08:49:38 pm
Request: that's 7 colors (this checker only sees the first frame colors). Some might be accidental. The blacks are so close that I almost can't distinguish them; same for the greens.
The way you use layers is not going to help your pixeling progress  :hehe:
Way to go is: 1- create a palette, including the fade-out dark greens which you can choose and edit in an interesting way, apply hue-shifting to etc; 2- apply palette to frames.

Sprite: yes to more contrast. There's no reason that all colors are dark (= darker than your medium gray bg; I'm not counting yellow). Even black fur has bright reflections. So yes, highlights are needed.
Yellow: if it glows, it should show. Right now it's just patches of yellow paint. But that's not easy and you should maybe leave that aside for the next lesson =)

Offline LarkoftheRiver

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Re: Young pixel artist looking for critique!

Reply #26 on: July 01, 2014, 08:59:14 pm
Oh gosh, that was when I was still playing with colors, my bad.
Okay, so I shouldn't use the tweening option in Photoshop to get a glow, and make it myself? I'll try that. Should I also stop with layers, and only use the first one for the pixel?

I'll see what I can do about the highlights.
I was going to do a glowing animation to show the glow as well, but I'm going to wait on that until the sprite is all good. ^^

Offline Manupix

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Re: Young pixel artist looking for critique!

Reply #27 on: July 01, 2014, 09:08:56 pm
Layers are great to organize your work, try options, move stuff etc. Just keep them basic, 100% opacity, blending mode normal ;)

Glowing: I wasn't thinking of animation. Just glow.

Offline LarkoftheRiver

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Re: Young pixel artist looking for critique!

Reply #28 on: July 01, 2014, 09:15:24 pm
Oh um
Probably the next lesson
I'm really trying hard to control my colors, I'm not sure that will help.

Edit- Brought out the highlights a bit.

I also got bored, so I decided to try a bit of glow. I'm not too pleased with it, but I'll post it anyway.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2014, 10:28:08 pm by LarkoftheRiver »

Offline questseeker

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Re: Young pixel artist looking for critique!

Reply #29 on: July 02, 2014, 07:34:29 am
I cannot help thinking that the yellow ring pokémon you are editing and reediting as an exercise is too small. Too small for decorations like the rings (Manupix already observed that they are a complication and an obstacle, but they are also too small to look good) and too small for the short of shading you are trying to do. Look at the foreleg of the last iteration: 3 pixels wide, with bands reducing to 1 pixel columns. You seem to be attempting a bad middle ground between large sprites that allow outlines and shading and small sprites that allow simple shapes.
Maybe you could try redrawing at the same size with only two shades of blue-gray, simplifying shading and shapes where you don't have enough pixels (e.g. jaw and legs), and/or scaling the same picture to double size with similar shading but better pixel clusters (e.g. more eye-shaped eyes, asymmetrical right ear, smaller left ear).

Offline Ambivorous

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Re: Young pixel artist looking for critique!

Reply #30 on: July 02, 2014, 03:49:44 pm
Glow and a comparison image of glow and no glow (5 second intervals):


This isn't exactly how I'd do it, but the idea is this:
Inside the area you want to "glow" you need to add two similar colours at pretty much maximum saturation. Use the darker one around the edges and the lighter inside (pillow shading). This gives an effect of overexposure if I'm not mistaken. To add to the effect, increase the brightness of the pixels right next to your glowing object (including outlines). In this example I only changed the hue of the colours around most of the areas, but yellow has a higher effective brightness than blue, so it worked. Again this is to force the feeling of overexposure.
In games they call this bloom I'm pretty sure.
I had to add 4 colours. Which makes me a bad person.

Play around with stuff like this to see what happens when you put pixels of different hues and saturations (and obviously values) next to one another.



I liked this edit of yours. It's the closest you have to a clean piece, but I agree with Manupix - more contrast still.
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Offline Probo

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Re: Young pixel artist looking for critique!

Reply #31 on: July 02, 2014, 05:33:04 pm


had some fun with your sprite! gave it a bit of colour

Offline LarkoftheRiver

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Re: Young pixel artist looking for critique!

Reply #32 on: July 02, 2014, 06:02:25 pm
I cannot help thinking that the yellow ring pokémon you are editing and reediting as an exercise is too small. Too small for decorations like the rings (Manupix already observed that they are a complication and an obstacle, but they are also too small to look good) and too small for the short of shading you are trying to do. Look at the foreleg of the last iteration: 3 pixels wide, with bands reducing to 1 pixel columns. You seem to be attempting a bad middle ground between large sprites that allow outlines and shading and small sprites that allow simple shapes.
Maybe you could try redrawing at the same size with only two shades of blue-gray, simplifying shading and shapes where you don't have enough pixels (e.g. jaw and legs), and/or scaling the same picture to double size with similar shading but better pixel clusters (e.g. more eye-shaped eyes, asymmetrical right ear, smaller left ear).
Sorry but.. I didn't really understand that post at all. Basically, the markings are too small, then, and I should enlarge the sprite? How do I do that in Photoshop without causing it to get blurry? (I know there's a way, at least on the computers at school with CS6)

Glow and a comparison image of glow and no glow (5 second intervals):


This isn't exactly how I'd do it, but the idea is this:
Inside the area you want to "glow" you need to add two similar colours at pretty much maximum saturation. Use the darker one around the edges and the lighter inside (pillow shading). This gives an effect of overexposure if I'm not mistaken. To add to the effect, increase the brightness of the pixels right next to your glowing object (including outlines). In this example I only changed the hue of the colours around most of the areas, but yellow has a higher effective brightness than blue, so it worked. Again this is to force the feeling of overexposure.
In games they call this bloom I'm pretty sure.
I had to add 4 colours. Which makes me a bad person.

Play around with stuff like this to see what happens when you put pixels of different hues and saturations (and obviously values) next to one another.
Oh, okay. I'll play around with this a bit. ^^

Quote

I liked this edit of yours. It's the closest you have to a clean piece, but I agree with Manupix - more contrast still.
Thank you! I added some more highlights in the next edit, did I mess up the form again, though?



had some fun with your sprite! gave it a bit of colour
Oh, its so pretty! I think I get some more things about shading now, thank you for the visuals!

Offline Manupix

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Re: Young pixel artist looking for critique!

Reply #33 on: July 03, 2014, 09:30:08 am
How do I do that in Photoshop without causing it to get blurry?

Image / Image size / 200%, resampling = Nearest Neighbor.

Of course you'll have to rework all the detail by hand to get rid of the 2x2 pixels. It's probably better to redraw everything from scratch anyway. Artists should never shy away from restarting their work as many times as necessary ;)

However, this sprite has the right size for practice, except for that glow thing which isn't helpful IMO  :-X

Offline LarkoftheRiver

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Re: Young pixel artist looking for critique!

Reply #34 on: July 03, 2014, 06:00:47 pm
Okay, thank you. I was just wondering for future reference, I'm keeping the sprite the same size for now ^^

Okay, I removed the yellow markings to correct the form and shading problems (I'll add them back later). Any better?



(not sure if this is allowed but double posting)
I've edited it a bit.
W/ shine/gold markings-
w/out shine/gold markings-
I also added more lights.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2014, 01:16:47 am by PixelPiledriver »