AuthorTopic: [WIP]NES-themed hidden minigame  (Read 2356 times)

Offline CombustibleNate

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[WIP]NES-themed hidden minigame

on: June 29, 2014, 01:50:42 am
So, like most people here, I am trying to imitate a game produced for an NES. I honestly am struggling with it since I understand bits and pieces of the limitations devs were under, but I can't find a definite source stating which way is the correct way and how it's all handled. I planned on spending my day spriting tiles for a background in a shmup style game, but I was under the impression that each tile must be 8x8. How many 8x8 tiles should I make per BG? I know it slightly depends on what the BG must look like, but I've seen some pretty complex ones on here that I didn't thought fit within the rules of an NES game.

Forgive me if I am the 1000th person to ask this. I just have spent ours scouring for answers.

On top of that, here are the sprites I've made, limited to only 8x8, 8x16, and 16x8. I know that I could probably make bigger sprites, but I believe my partner wants to keep it at those maximums to fit within our aspect ratio.

This asset rotates with the addition of three other frames

Designed to resemble a bee/wasp

First and only enemy type so far.

Any advice would help, but I would REALLY appreciate the info regarding complex BG with NES limitations so I can hop to work.

Offline Kasumi

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Re: [WIP]NES-themed hidden minigame

Reply #1 on: June 29, 2014, 08:11:37 am
Hi, I wrote this post on NES restrictions. That covers how it's all handled, but I still feel it's a bit too specific if all you want to do is make art. Anyway, still worth a read if you haven't found it already. If there's anything you need broken down further, ask a specific question.

Are you looking to just make a mockup/graphics, or an actual game? There is a lot more stuff you have to decide and know if you want to make a PC/whatever game that's accurate to NES.

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I was under the impression that each tile must be 8x8. How many 8x8 tiles should I make per BG? I know it slightly depends on what the BG must look like, but I've seen some pretty complex ones on here that I didn't thought fit within the rules of an NES game.
Yes, 8x8 background tiles. You are (generally) limited to 256 unique background tiles in whatever you would consider a level or map for your game. I can say that if people who pretty much know what they're doing are going to break a limitation, it's usually the 256 tile limit, heh. But you might also be surprised at how clever people get with tile use. This is a fun post. It's not about an NES game, but it does cover some masterful tile work.

4 background palettes of 3 colors, plus one color you can use anywhere. Think of it like this: The background is filled with the one color. The 3 colors from a palette can be used to draw on top of that color. If nothing is drawn on top of the one color, it's still there. These palettes can be changed during gameplay (it's how Mario ? blocks flash), just know that everything that uses that palette will be changed when you change a color.

Each 16x16 area can (generally) be covered with the 3 colors from any 1 of the 4 background palettes. (This is another commonly broken one. People tend to use a palette per 8x8 area, not 16x16. But technically this limitation can be overcome which is what the generally is for. )


8x8 sprite tiles. You are (generally) limited to 256 unique sprite tiles in whatever you would consider a level or map for your game.

4 sprite palettes of 3 colors + transparent. These palettes can be changed during gameplay, and everything that uses them will be changed like with the background palettes.

64 sprites on screen at once.

NES sprites are 8x8, or 8x16. I'm just going to assume you're using 8x8 sprites. The way 8x16 mode works is weird to plan around if you're making graphics and wouldn't save you many sprites if you plan to have 16x8 enemies, anyway.
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Any advice would help, but I would REALLY appreciate the info regarding complex BG with NES limitations so I can hop to work.
You need to be more specific than this. NES limitations are much less rigid than you'd think, it varies depending on the board the game is run on. So name some games that do the things you'd like, or just state the complex things you might like to do for the background and I can tell you if it's possible and how it'd be accomplished.

Quick critique on art: You have outlines on the rotating asset, but not the enemies which is a bit inconsistent. If this is intentional to make the bullets and things to dodge stand out, it may be okay. But if it wasn't a conscious choice, go with one or the other for everything. The three things you have use three different palettes. This means you have only one left. If you plan to use yet another for your main character/ship, that's all 4. Depending on how you want your game to work, you might only get four palettes for each zone of the schmup, so if you want lots of different kind of enemies, the palettes need to be as reusable as possible.

If it's the kind of schmup that you're over black space most of the time, it may not be worth it to have black in your enemy palettes. You can just draw things within the sprite that you want black transparent.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2014, 08:25:05 am by Kasumi »
I make actual NES games. Thus, I'm the unofficial forum dealer of too much information about the NES

Offline CombustibleNate

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Re: [WIP]NES-themed hidden minigame

Reply #2 on: June 29, 2014, 09:05:22 am
Are you looking to just make a mockup/graphics, or an actual game? There is a lot more stuff you have to decide and know if you want to make a PC/whatever game that's accurate to NES.
Yes, I am making a game with a friend. I spoke to him this evening and he doesn't think I will break the limitations but it's always good to know.

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Yes, 8x8 background tiles. You are (generally) limited to 256 unique background tiles in whatever you would consider a level or map for your game. I can say that if people who pretty much know what they're doing are going to break a limitation, it's usually the 256 tile limit, heh. But you might also be surprised at how clever people get with tile use. This is a fun post. It's not about an NES game, but it does cover some masterful tile work.
This answers a lot. Thanks!

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4 background palettes of 3 colors, plus one color you can use anywhere. Think of it like this: The background is filled with the one color. The 3 colors from a palette can be used to draw on top of that color. If nothing is drawn on top of the one color, it's still there. These palettes can be changed during gameplay (it's how Mario ? blocks flash), just know that everything that uses that palette will be changed when you change a color.

Each 16x16 area can (generally) be covered with the 3 colors from any 1 of the 4 background palettes. (This is another commonly broken one. People tend to use a palette per 8x8 area, not 16x16. But technically this limitation can be overcome which is what the generally is for. )


8x8 sprite tiles. You are (generally) limited to 256 unique sprite tiles in whatever you would consider a level or map for your game.

4 sprite palettes of 3 colors + transparent. These palettes can be changed during gameplay, and everything that uses them will be changed like with the background palettes.

64 sprites on screen at once.

NES sprites are 8x8, or 8x16. I'm just going to assume you're using 8x8 sprites. The way 8x16 mode works is weird to plan around if you're making graphics and wouldn't save you many sprites if you plan to have 16x8 enemies, anyway.

You need to be more specific than this. NES limitations are much less rigid than you'd think, it varies depending on the board the game is run on. So name some games that do the things you'd like, or just state the complex things you might like to do for the background and I can tell you if it's possible and how it'd be accomplished.
Gradius and Defender are the best examples. I was told I was limited to 8x8, 16x8, or 8x16 but I guess it just has to be multiples.

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Quick critique on art: You have outlines on the rotating asset, but not the enemies which is a bit inconsistent. If this is intentional to make the bullets and things to dodge stand out, it may be okay. But if it wasn't a conscious choice, go with one or the other for everything. The three things you have use three different palettes. This means you have only one left. If you plan to use yet another for your main character/ship, that's all 4. Depending on how you want your game to work, you might only get four palettes for each zone of the schmup, so if you want lots of different kind of enemies, the palettes need to be as reusable as possible.
I will need to consider that. I don't understand why I only have one more palette for the sprites, but I will review what you said when I am not so tired. I like the idea though of limiting the palettes since it'll give it that distinct NES feel. Thanks for the help! One question I have, is the NES color palette in your guide. Is it accurate? All other palettes I've seen don't have a yellow but yours does.

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If it's the kind of schmup that you're over black space most of the time, it may not be worth it to have black in your enemy palettes. You can just draw things within the sprite that you want black transparent.
I dunno. I know the gradius sprite uses black unnecessarily. I will need to see how our levels play out. Thanks for all the feedback!

Offline Kasumi

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Re: [WIP]NES-themed hidden minigame

Reply #3 on: June 29, 2014, 03:44:19 pm
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Gradius and Defender are the best examples.
For games like those, you are indeed unlikely to run into non obvious problems. The thing to keep in mind is that every bullet being fired uses at least 1 sprite, and you can hit the limit of 64 quickly.
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I was told I was limited to 8x8, 16x8, or 8x16 but I guess it just has to be multiples.
There's a distinction between what most people call a sprite, and what the hardware considers a sprite.

The hardware supports 8x8 and 8x16 sprites. Nothing else. Bigger sprites are made out of multiple hardware sprites. Mario when he's small is 4 hardware sprites. When he's large, he's 8. If the game used 8x16 mode, he'd use 2 and 4 hardware sprites. (But Mario could not have used that mode for other reasons.) You can make sprites of any size as long as what you make doesn't user more than 64 hardware sprites.
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I don't understand why I only have one more palette for the sprites, but I will review what you said when I am not so tired.
You get 4 palettes of 3 colors for sprite.

The bullet looking thing is red, orange, yellow. One palette.
The bee/wasp is blue, green, black. One palette.
The eye is white, black, red. One palette.

So there's one left.

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Thanks for the help! One question I have, is the NES color palette in your guide. Is it accurate?

Which one? This one (top 4 rows) is pretty accurate, but there's really no such thing as a totally accurate RGB NES palette for reasons that aren't fun to explain. That is the palette I use to make my own graphics, for what that's worth. And nah, the NTSC NES palette doesn't have a color you can really call yellow. :( The other one in the guide is for PAL, and I can't say how accurate it is having never even seen a PAL NES in person.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2014, 03:47:47 pm by Kasumi »
I make actual NES games. Thus, I'm the unofficial forum dealer of too much information about the NES